Luminous Landscape Forum

Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Digital Image Processing => Topic started by: rck on June 30, 2007, 11:28:29 am

Title: JPG too orange
Post by: rck on June 30, 2007, 11:28:29 am

Sometimes, like for example on the two pictures at the end of this post, my JPGs get too orange. They have a heavy orange cast I do not understand. Most of the time, things work out fine though. I suppose, I have some kind of color profile problem.

My setup:

  - dualscreen TFT
  - Matrox Parhelia
  - calibrated with Spyder Pro

My workflow:

  - Canon EOS 30D (and Canon PowerShot S2)
  - Lightroom 1.1
  - Photoshop CS 3
  - "Save for web"

Until the "Save for web", all colours look great. In the "Save for web" dialog, the colours sometimes are too orange. Regardless, if I enable or disable the "convert to sRGB" setting. Regardless, if I export the pictures to sRGB TIFF in Lightroom or if I simply use "export to Photoshop" like I do most of the time.

This is really frustrating.... If there is any more information I can give, please tell.

Thanks for any help!

(http://www.kiesler.at/images/photoalbum/216/boys.jpg)

(http://www.kiesler.at/images/photoalbum/216/philosopher.jpg)

Title: JPG too orange
Post by: jbrembat on June 30, 2007, 04:36:43 pm

I do not know LR or PS. But I think you get a strange result.
To produce the following I do a transform from sRGB to Prophoto and send it to monitor.
Next I did an hardcopy of the screen... and this is the result..
Hope this helps.

Jacopo

Title: JPG too orange
Post by: jbrembat on June 30, 2007, 04:41:32 pm

ign

Title: JPG too orange
Post by: rck on June 30, 2007, 04:46:30 pm

Thanks! I also managed to get your result somehow, don't remember how exactly. Could have been the ProFoto to sRGB conversion.

But that way, the colours are even more off! :-(

I've put two TIFs of the same pictures online, can you see the difference?

http://www.kiesler.at/static/forum/luminou...pe.com/guys.tif (http://www.kiesler.at/static/forum/luminous-landscape.com/guys.tif)
http://www.kiesler.at/static/forum/luminou...philosopher.tif (http://www.kiesler.at/static/forum/luminous-landscape.com/philosopher.tif)

It has to be some kind of profile issue, I just can't nail it down...

Title: JPG too orange
Post by: jbrembat on June 30, 2007, 04:55:44 pm

I downloaded the first ant it seems to me the same of the initial post.
Jacopo

Title: JPG too orange
Post by: rck on June 30, 2007, 05:24:59 pm

I did a screenshot with the forum posting and the TIF next to each other. Can you see a difference here? The JPG saved that way is even more orange!

(http://www.kiesler.at/static/forum/luminous-landscape.com/guys_screenshots.jpg)

Title: JPG too orange
Post by: jbrembat on July 01, 2007, 03:22:03 am

Quote

I did a screenshot with the forum posting and the TIF next to each other. Can you see a difference here? The JPG saved that way is even more orange!

(http://www.kiesler.at/static/forum/luminous-landscape.com/guys_screenshots.jpg)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=125789\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Repeat:I do not see any difference between tif and jpg. You have problem, perhaps in monitor profile or some serious bug in the application. The correct rendering is the right (more orange).

Back to the original:
1. you start from a sRGB image
2. for some reason application thinks the image color space is proPhoto

When you ask for a sRGB image, the application do a transorm from ProPhoto to sRGB.
In this way I get your orange image.

Title: JPG too orange
Post by: rck on July 01, 2007, 06:08:55 am

Now that's too weird. You mean, for you both images look "too orange"? Is the application, you're looking at the images, color-management enabled? I think, what I need is to find a way to make the JPG reflect my colour profile without embedding the profile.

Like "convert from ProFoto to sRGB", like you mentioned. The interesting part is, that I've set Lightroom to export ProFoto, that I've set Photoshop to use ProFoto and I've set the Save for Web dialog to convert to sRGB.

Without the sRGB conversion, pictures look like in your post. So... The ProFoto to sRGB conversion is not working?

Title: JPG too orange
Post by: jbrembat on July 01, 2007, 07:24:23 am

Quote

Is the application, you're looking at the images, color-management enabled?

Of course. But tif and jpg embedded color profile is the same:sRGB. As my monitor color space is near identical to sRGB,  if I open them without color management the result is the same ==> orange.

Quote

Like "convert from ProFoto to sRGB", like you mentioned. The interesting part is, that I've set Lightroom to export ProFoto, that I've set Photoshop to use ProFoto and I've set the Save for Web dialog to convert to sRGB.

For some reason application thinks the image color space is proPhoto, but I think it is sRGB: I get the orange image converting my neutral image from ProPhoto (that is not the image color space, it is sRGB) into sRGB.

What I cannot tell is if the problem is on your settings or in your applications.
If you like, you can post the image in ProPhoto and I can guess if it is OK.

Title: JPG too orange
Post by: rck on July 01, 2007, 11:16:50 am

Here it goes:

http://www.kiesler.at/static/forum/luminou...uys_profoto.tif (http://www.kiesler.at/static/forum/luminous-landscape.com/guys_profoto.tif)

Title: JPG too orange
Post by: jbrembat on July 01, 2007, 01:32:49 pm

Your Prophoto image has emmbedded Prophoto profile, but if the RGB values are interpreted following the profile, the conversion to sRGB produces orange.
If the RGB values are considered belonging to sRGB then the image has neutral colors, as I suspected.
In wich way do you create the image?

Title: JPG too orange
Post by: rck on July 01, 2007, 02:08:32 pm

The RAW Part (.CR2)

Canon EOS 30D --> USB Card Reader --> USB Hard Disk --> Lightroom 1.1


And the PSD Part (Ctrl+E)

Lightroom 1.1 --> Photoshop CS 3

Title: JPG too orange
Post by: jbrembat on July 01, 2007, 02:21:24 pm

Quote

The RAW Part (.CR2)

Canon EOS 30D --> USB Card Reader --> USB Hard Disk --> Lightroom 1.1
And the PSD Part (Ctrl+E)

Lightroom 1.1 --> Photoshop CS 3
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=125952\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I don't know, but something goes wrong. Unless orange was due to your editing.
I think you can try DPP to develop the raw.

Title: JPG too orange
Post by: jbrembat on July 01, 2007, 03:13:32 pm

there is an explanation that can justify wrong editing.
For you the ProPhoto image colors are good?
If this is true, probably your monitor profile is not good.

Title: JPG too orange
Post by: Jonathan Wienke on July 03, 2007, 06:56:26 pm

All of the posted images have an orange cast. You're doing something wrong with your workflow (most likely assigning ProPhoto to an sRGB image) that is exaggerating color saturation and making the cast more noticeable. The most likely scenario is that your web JPEGs are being converted to sRGB but not being tagged with a profile, and PS is assuming that all untagged RGB mystery meat is ProPhoto, resulting in garish oversaturation. When you boost saturation, pre-existing color casts become more noticeable.

There are a few steps you can take to avoid this problem:

1: Never make any RGB images that do not have a profile, except for very small web graphics. A profile only increases file size a few KB and prevents a lot of hassles. Untagged RGB mystery meat is always a pain in the butt to deal with.

2: Go into your color settings in Photoshop and check the "Prompt for Missing Profiles" box so that you are asked how to handle mystery meat instead of letting PS make unwarranted assumptions. Letting a computer assume things is ALWAYS bad.