Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Mort54 on April 17, 2007, 11:07:18 am
-
Hi All. For the last few weeks I've been shopping around for a MF system, and the quotes are finally starting to trickle in. Obviously I can't reveal the prices I'm being quoted, and I'm not asking you to either, but I'm wondering what my pricing expectations should be. In reading many posts on this forum and others, I get the impression that substantial discounts off of book or list pricing is common. I'm mostly interested in a 39 MP system. What kinds of discounts over book or list pricing should I be expecting? I want to be fair to the VAR, but I also don't want to pay more than the going price.
Here's some pricing that is publicly available on the internet and on this forum, and for want of better information, I'm treating this as my book or list pricing. I would expect any quote I got to beat these prices. My question is "How much lower than these prices should I expect to fairly pay?"
- P45+ = $32,990 w/ 3 year extended warranty ($29,990 w/o extended warranty)
- e75 = $32K + $2397 for Rollei adapter (don't know if this includes extended warranty, or what other adapters cost)
- H3D-39 = $31,995 (includes H3D body, viewfinder, 39 MP back, and 80mm lens). As far as I can tell, it only includes a one year warranty. If I subtract out the cost of an H2 kit without the back ($7999 list price), that suggests the H3D-39 back is worth about $24K (this is a bit unfair, but it's the only public pricing I can get my hands on).
-
Hi All. For the last few weeks I've been shopping around for a MF system, and the quotes are finally starting to trickle in. Obviously I can't reveal the prices I'm being quoted, and I'm not asking you to either, but I'm wondering what my pricing expectations should be. In reading many posts on this forum and others, I get the impression that substantial discounts off of book or list pricing is common. I'm mostly interested in a 39 MP system. What kinds of discounts over book or list pricing should I be expecting? I want to be fair to the VAR, but I also don't want to pay more than the going price.
Here's some pricing that is publicly available on the internet and on this forum, and for want of better information, I'm treating this as my book or list pricing. I would expect any quote I got to beat these prices. My question is "How much lower than these prices should I expect to fairly pay?"
- P45+ = $32,990 w/ 3 year extended warranty ($29,990 w/o extended warranty)
- e75 = $32K + $2397 for Rollei adapter (don't know if this includes extended warranty, or what other adapters cost)
- H3D-39 = $31,995 (includes H3D body, viewfinder, 39 MP back, and 80mm lens). As far as I can tell, it only includes a one year warranty. If I subtract out the cost of an H2 kit without the back ($7999 list price), that suggests the H3D-39 back is worth about $24K (this is a bit unfair, but it's the only public pricing I can get my hands on).
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=112860\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi Mort,
Calumet shows the CFH-39 and CF-39 backs (what's the difference?)both at $29,995 respectively, and the H3D-39 kit at $31,995.
Best,
Don
-
Dear Hans,
the Sinar price you mention is with a normal 3-year warranty period (2 contractual years + 1 year free by simply regsitering as a Sinar Owner).
- All our prices are always for a 3-year warranty, for all our products.
- We DO NOT and NEVER give a 1-year warranty and then propose to the custmer to extend this warranty by another 1 or 2 years by paying an additional fee.
Knowing that, I would contact your local Sinar distributor/dealer for a real quote.
Thanks and best regards,
Thierry
- P45+ = $32,990 w/ 3 year extended warranty ($29,990 w/o extended warranty)
- e75 = $32K + $2397 for Rollei adapter (don't know if this includes extended warranty, or what other adapters cost)
- H3D-39 = $31,995 (includes H3D body, viewfinder, 39 MP back, and 80mm lens). As far as I can tell, it only includes a one year warranty. If I subtract out the cost of an H2 kit without the back ($7999 list price), that suggests the H3D-39 back is worth about $24K (this is a bit unfair, but it's the only public pricing I can get my hands on).
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=112860\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
-
Mort:
I don't know where all of this cloak and dagger BS comes from but it is pretty thick when trying to price MFDB and it is frustrating, especially for someone like me who does not have a dealer in my state, or anywhere near me. I paid about $28,000 recently for a P-45+, Mamiya mount, with the extended warranty package, plus got 15% off of any new Mamiya equipment I ordered with the back. I may have been screwed but if no one is willing to talk about it how would I know? These aren't government secrets we're buying, just a gosh darn camera back and I don't understand why everyone is so closed-mouthed about it, but I guess that is just part of the game...
Tim Ernst in Arkansas
-
Dear Tim,
There isn't any "closed-mouth" attitude from Sinar when it comes to prices and quotations. You can anytime contact our distributor SBI and its sales responsibles, either Gregory King ([email protected]) or Matt Lapointe ([email protected]): they will certainly either provide you prices or then direct you to the right dealer nearest to your place.
Best regards,
Thierry
Mort:
I don't know where all of this cloak and dagger BS comes from but it is pretty thick when trying to price MFDB and it is frustrating, especially for someone like me who does not have a dealer in my state, or anywhere near me. I paid about $28,000 recently for a P-45+, Mamiya mount, with the extended warranty package, plus got 15% off of any new Mamiya equipment I ordered with the back. I may have been screwed but if no one is willing to talk about it how would I know? These aren't government secrets we're buying, just a gosh darn camera back and I don't understand why everyone is so closed-mouthed about it, but I guess that is just part of the game...
Tim Ernst in Arkansas
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=112995\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
-
Dear Hans,
the Sinar price you mention is with a normal 3-year warranty period (2 contractual years + 1 year free by simply regsitering as a Sinar Owner).
- All our prices are always for a 3-year warranty, for all our products.
- We DO NOT and NEVER give a 1-year warranty and then propose to the custmer to extend this warranty by another 1 or 2 years by paying an additional fee.
Knowing that, I would contact your local Sinar distributor/dealer for a real quote.
Thanks and best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=112981\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hello Thierry. Thanks for your input. I have had a request for quote out for several weeks now for a Hy6 system with the e75 back, but so far I've gotten no response. I'm working that problem with SinarBron, but it seems the Hy6 pricing is still not settled here in the US, and that is holding things up. It's very frustrating, but like I said, it's being worked. It's good to hear, tho, that Sinar's standard warranty is for 3 years.
Regards,
Hans.
-
Nothing to thank, Hans!
We are aware that the Hy6 has no definitive pricing yet, either in the US nor elsewhere: It is certainly not our distributor's failure and nothing to blame them on this (rather Sinar to be blamed). This is going to change in a few days with information by Sinar being sent to all of our distributors worldwide, containing all the prices.
Best regards,
Thierry
Hello Thierry. Thanks for your input. I have had a request for quote out for several weeks now for a Hy6 system with the e75 back, but so far I've gotten no response. I'm working that problem with SinarBron, but it seems the Hy6 pricing is still not settled here in the US, and that is holding things up. It's very frustrating, but like I said, it's being worked. It's good to hear, tho, that Sinar's standard warranty is for 3 years.
Regards,
Hans.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=113022\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
-
Mort:
I don't know where all of this cloak and dagger BS comes from but it is pretty thick when trying to price MFDB and it is frustrating, especially for someone like me who does not have a dealer in my state, or anywhere near me. I paid about $28,000 recently for a P-45+, Mamiya mount, with the extended warranty package, plus got 15% off of any new Mamiya equipment I ordered with the back. I may have been screwed but if no one is willing to talk about it how would I know? These aren't government secrets we're buying, just a gosh darn camera back and I don't understand why everyone is so closed-mouthed about it, but I guess that is just part of the game...
Tim Ernst in Arkansas
Hi Tim. Thanks for your reply, and especially for sharing pricing with me. Dealing with an out-of-state VAR may actually be a benefit for you, since you don't have to pay state sales tax. The Phase One VAR that covers my region is located in the same state as me, and I am not getting pricing as good as you got (I think the VAR is giving me fair pricing, but the state sales tax puts them at an automatic disadvantage).
As you probably know, Phase One enforces a regional sales model, so VARs outside your region are not able to bid their best price. In addition to the quote I got from my regional VAR, I also got a quote from Capture Integration, but they told me that since I am also getting a quote from my regional VAR, their hands are tied. I'm told by others, however, that if I raise a big enough stink over that, Phase may relax that rule. So far I haven't been able to determine if that is true. In any event, I plan to talk to Phase about it, with the hope that they'll allow me to get a more competitive requote from Capture Integration free of regional restrictions.
I understand the need for a VAR based sales model, and the benefits they offer, but sometimes it can seem a bit like haggeling with a car salesman, i.e. you never know if you're getting a good deal or if you're getting screwed. I will most likely make a counter-offer to my regional Phase One VAR, and also ask Phase One to let me get a second competitive bid from a VAR outside my region. I've also gotten a quote for a Hassy system from another VAR, and as I told Thierry, I'm expecting a quote from my regional Sinar VAR any day now (I hope).
Thanks again for your reply,
Hans.
-
- P45+ = $32,990 w/ 3 year extended warranty ($29,990 w/o extended warranty)
- e75 = $32K + $2397 for Rollei adapter (don't know if this includes extended warranty, or what other adapters cost)
- H3D-39 = $31,995 (includes H3D body, viewfinder, 39 MP back, and 80mm lens).
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=112860\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The price of a two year warranty extension on the H3D is 2,489.98 USD here in Norway. (Making it a total of three years warranty.)
I don't know if the 3 year program is as extensive as phase one's, i just got the price out of a dealers online price list...
-axel
-
Hans:
That's exactly the sort of runaround I was talking about - since there is no dealer for any brand MFDB anywhere near me I should be able to buy from the dealer of my choice in any part of the country. Isn't this the USA? Good grief. It is just a camera. On the other hand, they don't have to give any discount, nor are we forced to pay the obscene prices they ask (we can do without), yet it is terrific to have such a great imaging device to work with!
And as far as sales tax goes, I am required by state law to pay sales tax no matter where I purchase from so it doesn't matter to me where I purchase. Many states have this same sales tax law so they will get you one way or the other (they come around and do an audit every three years and you have to pay up for all out-of-state purchases that were not taxed upfront).
Tim Ernst in Arkansas
-
Dear Hans,
the Sinar price you mention is with a normal 3-year warranty period (2 contractual years + 1 year free by simply regsitering as a Sinar Owner).
- All our prices are always for a 3-year warranty, for all our products.
- We DO NOT and NEVER give a 1-year warranty and then propose to the custmer to extend this warranty by another 1 or 2 years by paying an additional fee.
Knowing that, I would contact your local Sinar distributor/dealer for a real quote.
Thanks and best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=112981\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Is the Sinar 3 yr. warranty a "hot swap" warranty that guarantees a 24 hr. turnaround on a loaner back anywhere in the world if your back goes down?
-
Tim et al,
That is exactly what I have mentioned periodically, but I get a total silent treatment from sellers & the past buyers!! Go figure!
Currently I am in process of buying a new SUV. I am trying to decide between Porsche Cayennne, Range Rover Sport or BMW X5( or X3 euro delivery). So I go to
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/vi...20Rover%20Sport (http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/ed_displayMakeModelRelatedDiscussions!make=Land%20Rover&model=Range%20Rover%20Sport)
Also to prices paid forums for Porsche & BMW, including any problems, repair issues & lemon laws. These forums gets visited by dealers, past owners & is very civilised. This along with what the dealer's cost is from
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2007/landrover/...s.html?action=1 (http://www.edmunds.com/new/2007/landrover/rangeroversport/100828461/prices.html?action=1)
one can easily decipher, what you should pay & what others pay , BUT for $30k & up digital backs, all the people who claim to use it so...o professionally/efficiently won't even share what they paid last year or even two years back. Only thing I can think is the photographer who post here wants to protect their turf, while the dealer who post here wants to sell their backs to new buyers. A terrible alliance!!
If you really break it down any back, it is nothing more than a box that takes what Kodak or Dalsa sensor captures from someones else's camera/lens & convert the data to what the photographer desires, all along following what the sensor manufactures stipulates. I do know what I am talking @, as I wrote software programs & worked on computers, while doing my Master's in Engineering (I got my Master's in 1971 !!).
So Tim, the cahunas are sorely lacking in M.F.D.B forum. You can ask anything but don't ask the price what we paid, that IS the title of this subsection in L-L forum is. Like you I am also looking to purchase a new one-I have older DB, but in meantime I will spend my money on 14MPG SUV.
-
....BUT for $30k & up digital backs, all the people who claim to use it so...o professionally/efficiently won't even share what they paid last year or even two years back.
Hi Sean. In fairness, most people are legally obligated not to reveal their pricing. Each VAR is a business, struggeling to make a profit just like any other business, and their pricing is usually considered proprietary information. I wasn't expecting to get many people, if any, to reveal the pricing they got. I was simply hoping for some general guidance on what I should hold out for.
Hans.
-
Mort,
I see where you are coming from, but when one buys ANY product, the seller cannot enforce that the buyer shall not reveal the price of the purchase to anyone. They might try to slide that clause into the sale receipt, but it is not legally enforcable. If the dealer were preparing these kinda agreements then they would have to "sit down with my lawyer will meet with your lawyer & then we will discuss the delivery in next 6months, when we receive it".. That IS the most far fetched legal binding sale agreement. They might suggest, "Hey, I am giving this to you at my cost (though my profit per back is cost of Nikon D2X, while poor slobs who sell Nikon makes only 10% of D2X max). Givemeabreak!!!
They are in business of selling a $30k+ product, which is obsolete in 18months. Used $30k+ backs in 3months would loose close to minimum 30% of it's value and ALL the backs have some kinda problems. The first & foremost requirement of a Pro-Photographer is not only quality, but time sensitivity, yet the reliabilty of these product is always a big question mark.
I don't buy that after forking over $30k+, we can't discuss price paid....kahunas ...they have & we don't.
-
Huh? My dealer never asked me not to reveal the price for my P30. And I don't recall seeing anything in the contract (the sales receipt) regarding some kind of non-disclosure of price.
Hi Sean. In fairness, most people are legally obligated not to reveal their pricing.
Hans.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=113058\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
-
Huh? My dealer never asked me not to reveal the price for my P30. And I don't recall seeing anything in the contract (the sales receipt) regarding some kind of non-disclosure of price.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=113135\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Of course there is no legal restriction on one's ability to disclose publicly what they paid for a MFDB. However, there are two distinct reasons why people tend not to share that information freely. First, they may be anxious about finding out that they paid significantly more than others did for exactly the same product. Fear of being embarrassed. Second, they may feel that they negotiated a very attractive package price from the dealer, they have developed a relationship with the dealer that they will be relying upon for service, and they feel they will be boxing that dealer into a corner in his future price negotiations with other prospective buyers. Fear of embarrassing the dealer.
-
OK, apparently I'm wrong about there being a general legal prohibition regarding revealing pricing information. In looking over my quotes, I have one that clearly states the information is considered confidential, and another quote that doesn't say anything on the subject. I don't have access to the two other quotes I've gotten so far, and I don't recall if they have such a statement.
Can such confidentiality statements be legally enforced? Probably not, but all the same I feel a personal obligation not to bandy about such information. If for no other reason, I want to have a good working relationship with whoever I end up going with, and tossing around their pricing information on the internet for all of their competitors to see doesn't seem appropriate. However, as long as the name of the VAR isn't associated with the price information, then I guess I can't see any harm is providing pricing.
Regards,
Hans.
-
The 3-year warranty is a general Sinar policy, since always and applied worldwide: we do not apply different standards of warranty and ask money for extensions.
As for "hot swap": this is dependent on the local distributor. Most of them do provide a backup unit.
Best regards,
Thierry
Is the Sinar 3 yr. warranty a "hot swap" warranty that guarantees a 24 hr. turnaround on a loaner back anywhere in the world if your back goes down?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=113047\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
-
Ok, I'll weigh in. Do I really want to....Probably not a good place for me to be.... Nonetheless, I am not afraid....
As a dealer, I have no standard selling price on a MFDB. The only standards are:
*The MSRP
*Our dealer cost
What I do with those figures is up to me and the negotiation between me and my client. My objective is to provide a price that my customer is comfortable with that will satisfy the resource requirements of our service. End of story.
As such, I really don't care if one of my customers tells anyone what price they paid me, because I can assure you, it is not the lowest price you can get. At times, I am confronted by pricing from dealers that have priced a product lower than I have and am asked to match or beat the price. Depending on what the competing price is, I am open to taking part in that. But if the price is too low (and this is usually a price from a dealer that does not offer anywhere near the level of service that we do), the customer has the choice of saving some bucks, or receiving premium service on a premium product that (as all can attest to) will likely have some hiccups throughout the years.
I don't concern myself with what other dealers sell their MFDB's at. If they are selling significantly below my comfort zone, they either don't offer premium service, or MFDB's are not a core part of their business. In other words, they could drop that part of their business and not bat an eye.
The only negative for me in regard to publicizing selling prices of MFDB's, is the perpetuation that the lowest price doesn't have a negative affect on the photographer's ability to utilize the product to efficiently get the work done.
Steve Hendrix
Profesional Photo Resources
www.ppratlanta.com
-
Ok, I'll weigh in. Do I really want to....Probably not a good place for me to be.... Nonetheless, I am not afraid....
As a dealer, I have no standard selling price on a MFDB. The only standards are:
*The MSRP
*Our dealer cost
What I do with those figures is up to me and the negotiation between me and my client. My objective is to provide a price that my customer is comfortable with that will satisfy the resource requirements of our service. End of story.
As such, I really don't care if one of my customers tells anyone what price they paid me, because I can assure you, it is not the lowest price you can get. At times, I am confronted by pricing from dealers that have priced a product lower than I have and am asked to match or beat the price. Depending on what the competing price is, I am open to taking part in that. But if the price is too low (and this is usually a price from a dealer that does not offer anywhere near the level of service that we do), the customer has the choice of saving some bucks, or receiving premium service on a premium product that (as all can attest to) will likely have some hiccups throughout the years.
I don't concern myself with what other dealers sell their MFDB's at. If they are selling significantly below my comfort zone, they either don't offer premium service, or MFDB's are not a core part of their business. In other words, they could drop that part of their business and not bat an eye.
The only negative for me in regard to publicizing selling prices of MFDB's, is the perpetuation that the lowest price doesn't have a negative affect on the photographer's ability to utilize the product to efficiently get the work done.
Steve Hendrix
Profesional Photo Resources
www.ppratlanta.com
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=113174\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi Steve. Thanks for offering your insight on this. By the way, I was talking to LeafAmerica today and your name came up as someone I should be talking to. If I get a chance tomorrow, I'll give you a call.
Regards,
Hans.
-
after deciding on which back was the one I needed I would work with the closest supplier of that back to get the best price.. I would have other quotes to help the neogociating process.
If they give me a great deal.. beyond the call of duty, and ask that I keep that between myself and them.. yes I would..just as I would expect my client whom I just gave a great price for a job to do the same..it is called building and keeping good relationships..
I will usually go with the most local supplier even if a little more money.. as you need a friend sometimes when the stuff hits the fan..good luck with the back you get. pm
-
after deciding on which back was the one I needed I would work with the closest supplier of that back to get the best price.. I would have other quotes to help the neogociating process.
If they give me a great deal.. beyond the call of duty, and ask that I keep that between myself and them.. yes I would..just as I would expect my client whom I just gave a great price for a job to do the same..it is called building and keeping good relationships..
I will usually go with the most local supplier even if a little more money.. as you need a friend sometimes when the stuff hits the fan..good luck with the back you get. pm
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=113203\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I would go with the closest dealer if I felt comfortable dealing with them. Whenever I get the feeling they don't really care, do not deliver any added value, it takes ages to get an answer and when you do it is on a different question and last but not least they charge more than 50% than another dealer which is overseas, I will most certainly buy it elsewhere.
I wish Steve would open an affiliate over here, lets put it that way or maybe I should take up selling MFDB's myself over here.
-
I would go with the closest dealer if I felt comfortable dealing with them. Whenever I get the feeling they don't really care, do not deliver any added value, it takes ages to get an answer and when you do it is on a different question and last but not least they charge more than 50% than another dealer which is overseas, I will most certainly buy it elsewhere.
I wish Steve would open an affiliate over here, lets put it that way or maybe I should take up selling MFDB's myself over here.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=113205\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
well that goes without saying, being an american, I have not yet had the chance to buy a mfdb in the "european community".. I think I would be tempted to go back on what I said and deal with the US guys I knonw - I haven't gone down that path yet.. but it is a matter of time..I'm trying to see how long I can go before an upgrade. I would seriously look at a used/demo one given the depreciation off the shelf of the new backs.
-
As a dealer, I have no standard selling price on a MFDB. The only standards are:
*The MSRP
*Our dealer cost
What I do with those figures is up to me and the negotiation between me and my client. My objective is to provide a price that my customer is comfortable with that will satisfy the resource requirements of our service. End of story.
As such, I really don't care if one of my customers tells anyone what price they paid me, because I can assure you, it is not the lowest price you can get. At times, I am confronted by pricing from dealers that have priced a product lower than I have and am asked to match or beat the price. Depending on what the competing price is, I am open to taking part in that. But if the price is too low (and this is usually a price from a dealer that does not offer anywhere near the level of service that we do), the customer has the choice of saving some bucks, or receiving premium service on a premium product that (as all can attest to) will likely have some hiccups throughout the years.
I don't concern myself with what other dealers sell their MFDB's at. If they are selling significantly below my comfort zone, they either don't offer premium service, or MFDB's are not a core part of their business. In other words, they could drop that part of their business and not bat an eye.
The only negative for me in regard to publicizing selling prices of MFDB's, is the perpetuation that the lowest price doesn't have a negative affect on the photographer's ability to utilize the product to efficiently get the work done.
Steve Hendrix
Profesional Photo Resources
www.ppratlanta.com
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=113174\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Bravo Steve,
I should have replied long before this as well
As a dealer I am constantly facing questions such as " XYZ offered me the same thing at $ABC less than you"
Like you, I never claim to have the lowest price, but I do promise, and deliver, exceptional service and support. That costs money, but to date I have not seen a posting on any forum from any of my clients asking about how a certain feature works or how to do something. That's because they're busy out making photographs instead of struggling with tech questions because they have recieved no training, no support and have no one they can ask those questions of.
To all you potential clients and users out there.....
If you're going to spend $30K is the + or - $500 a deal breaker? do you not think that getting caught in a situation where you are not getting what you should be out of your premium equipment not worth that cost? Is being able to pick up the phone and getting really realy fast and accurate answers not worth anything?
The reality is that you're going to need support at some point and if you can't find the guy that sold you your digital back at that bargain price you'll probably end up finding either me or someone like Steve to ask the questions. How fair is that?
End of rant
Joe
-
If you're going to spend $30K is the + or - $500 a deal breaker? do you not think that getting caught in a situation where you are not getting what you should be out of your premium equipment not worth that cost? Is being able to pick up the phone and getting really realy fast and accurate answers not worth anything?
Hi Joe. When I started this thread, my intent wasn't to figure out how to squeeze the dealer out of every last cent. As you indicated, VARs offer a very valuable service, and I'm really looking for pricing that's fair to everyone. I will say that based on various private messages, I have concluded that the quote I got on a Phase One back was grossly high, and that's really at the heart of what I was trying to find out with this thread, i.e. what should my expectations be.
Regards,
Hans.
-
Hans,
My comments were in no way intended to insult or inflame. I always have and will continue to tell my clients that they are welcome to compare prices, but always keep in mind that there is more to buying any product than just the sticker price. You, as the consumer must decide what is a fair price for what you are getting. Shop, compare, ask for a better deal...that is your job as the customer, but realize that at some point I, as the seller, will have to say "that's the best I can do"
The rest is up to the market.
I've said what I have to and will now go back to lurking...
-
My comments were in no way intended to insult or inflame.
No worries. I certainly didn't take your comments that way. My earlier comment to you was just to explain my point of view as a potential customer, and to make it clear I'm looking for fair pricing for both parties. I certainly also agree with your point of view. The seller should only offer a price that's good for business, and the buyer should only accept the price if it makes sense to their business.
Regards,
Hans.
-
Bravo Steve,
I should have replied long before this as well
As a dealer I am constantly facing questions such as " XYZ offered me the same thing at $ABC less than you"
Like you, I never claim to have the lowest price, but I do promise, and deliver, exceptional service and support. That costs money, but to date I have not seen a posting on any forum from any of my clients asking about how a certain feature works or how to do something. That's because they're busy out making photographs instead of struggling with tech questions because they have recieved no training, no support and have no one they can ask those questions of.
To all you potential clients and users out there.....
If you're going to spend $30K is the + or - $500 a deal breaker? do you not think that getting caught in a situation where you are not getting what you should be out of your premium equipment not worth that cost? Is being able to pick up the phone and getting really realy fast and accurate answers not worth anything?
The reality is that you're going to need support at some point and if you can't find the guy that sold you your digital back at that bargain price you'll probably end up finding either me or someone like Steve to ask the questions. How fair is that?
End of rant
Joe
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=113398\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Maybe we need more dealers like you where I live. Because, as far as I know there aren't any such. And let me be clear, every major purchase I made I have made locally, leaving the guys some money, in order to have the smiling face of a friend to look at in case of trouble. Mostly I found out that the equipment makers don't really want to return the dealer's phone call when the message says trouble.
Edmund
Edmund
-
I'm in the process of upgrading the back I have on my Mamiya AFD II. I had the pleasure of meeting with a fellow LL member a couple weeks to shoot in Page AZ. I have a Kodak Pro while he has a Phase One P30. We shot slot canyons and did a few lanscapes (Horseshoe Bend and the overlook at the lake). What this did for me was to up the date to this year for the replacement. I got home and went on the great search. I decided early-on on the Phase One and then decided that I needed a back that was going to suite my shooting needs - dry, dusty, monsoons, snow - well you get the point. My decision is the P30+. I posted questions on the Phase One forum and since I don't have a dealer close by in Arizona I did a little more research on this forum. What I found was a dealer who posts here quite often and sent an email to him. This entire research has been both an eye opener as well as some unexpected results. It appears that both Phase One corporate as well as their dealers care for what they sell and who the customer is. Since starting this search I've had the local dealer for Arizona who is in Denver come to me to demo a P45 all the while knowing that I was working with another dealer.
Bottom line is that I'm set to sign the bottom line shortly and feel that my so be dealer has given me the best possible price he can. When dealing with such a high end item a difference of a couple hunderd dollars is meaningless. What should matter is what your gut is telling you about the dealer. You know you'll be satisfied with the product - are you going to be statisfied with the dealer? Is this going to be a long term relationship that you both can handle? For me the anser to all of the above is yes. I'm looking forward to placing the order as well as the long term relationship that will come (as I know it will) with the dealer. I know I haven't stated my final decision but I went/or am going with the one with the best sence of humor - he knows who is he.
So do your research, get the best possible price you can but understand the cheapest bid is not always the best in the long run.
Okay I'll get off my soapbox and get back to work so that I can pay for this...
-
...he knows who is he.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=113458\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
So, who is he?
Fred Ragland
-
Thierry,
Can't wait to know.
Hoping it's at least competitive to Hasselblad H-series.
Any news on how soon the 35mm + 120mm will be available?
Billy
We are aware that the Hy6 has no definitive pricing yet, either in the US nor elsewhere: It is certainly not our distributor's failure and nothing to blame them on this (rather Sinar to be blamed). This is going to change in a few days with information by Sinar being sent to all of our distributors worldwide, containing all the prices.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=113024\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
-
hi Billy,
nothing new o the AFD lenses' front: they are still planed and should still be available by septembre. That's the latest news I have.
Best regards,
Thierry
Thierry,
Can't wait to know.
Hoping it's at least competitive to Hasselblad H-series.
Any news on how soon the 35mm + 120mm will be available?
Billy
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=113521\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
-
So, who is he?
Fred Ragland
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=113459\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Chris Lawery, Capture Integration. Just finished placing the order for a P30+
-
Chris Lawery, Capture Integration. Just finished placing the order for a P30+
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=113806\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thank you Don. Congratulations.
Fred Ragland
-
Thank you Don. Congratulations.
Fred Ragland
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=113817\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Fred, Thank you. I've got to say the entire research and buying experience went very well. I've lost count of the number of calls from NY - and they weren't just in your face with what can we do to get you on board type of calls - they listened to my needs and wants. It actually came down to two dealers - Global and Capture. Both have very strong points in their favor, in the end I went with Capture as I had already began a relationship with them. Now the wait begins...........