Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: disneytoy on October 05, 2024, 10:36:58 pm
-
Greetings!
I'm on a Epson 9890. I have to get this order out for a customer by Monday. it is a single image they want to see on several different papers. I'm getting some banding in the sunset sky. I thought it was the light Magenta. Ran a ton of CL1 and accouple CL 2 and even 1 CL 3 cleaning. Did print head alignment. Replaced my wiper, cleaned the capping station etc. Am I correct from the picture it is most likely the Light Magenta?
This is a blurry image. Any tricks i may use to reduce the look of the banding? Use a draft or Max quality setting? Maybe use a Wide GAP. The banding is more obvious in person, the scan is a bit soft.
The test patterns are latest on top going back between cleaning/printing cycles. The cowboy photo the print head is traveling vertically in that print note the shadows around the clouds.
Thanks
Max
-
Well Boys and girls, Tell me what you think? So I thought I'd remove the Light Magenta maybe give it a light shake and look what I found. Looked like a slasher movie. Anyone ever see this before?
It does not appear to be coming from the little port. I think it may becoming from the seam of the cartridge. Yes I've done several cleaning 1 and 2 over the last day or so but this is crazy.
-
15+ years old so it looks like you got your money out of it. 10 is good.
Call Ink Owl and see if they still sell replacement refillables for that model.
Pull your ink out of that cart with a syringe and put it into the refillable.
-
huh? I'm pretty sure that says "2018" so unless you're living in the future Dan....
I'd just get a new LM cartridge-- the unstable nature of those missing nozzles does suggest that there is some issue with the pressure system, and that one having exploded confirms it. Did you check your other carts? If that's the only one experiencing the issue then it's most likely just a failure of an O ring or something else in that cart itself-- if any of the others also have this happening then you could have a bigger problem, but your nozzles all look relatively good except for the randomness of the dropout pattern, which is almost always caused by a bad seal somewhere causing air bubbles to be introduced into the lines.
The whole pressurization system is in parallel, so one failure like this could easily cause problems with the other ink lines as well. Hopefully just replacing that one will fix it.
-
Thank you.
That was a relatively full cartridge. Just curious how it imploded. Like I said it is leaking out of the seam not the nozzle. I put in a 1% left cart I had, but I have a new sealed 700ml cart I guess I should open.
Can anyone advise on my cleaning cycles> I will just do the LM/LC pair. should I forgo a CL1 and just do a CL2?
Its frustrating because I'm known for my fast turn around, and I basically have to get this working or I'll lose this client.
Do you think it was a defect in the bladder of the cart or did the printer pop it under too much pressure?
I haven't checked the left bank but all right bank carts were fine other than the LM blow out.
I left the cartridge in the sink in the upright "installed position" and it continued to leak from the bottom seam.
Max
-
it's not terribly difficult to open up the plastic cartridge-- the ink is in a bladder inside of it, so there's really no way to know where it's leaking from unless you get inside the shell. There's nothing wrong with your specific cleaning cycles, basically do the least that will clear the issue.
As far as being known for your fast turnaround... it seems like a fairly obvious point to make that if this is your main selling point, you should have a backup machine...
-
Unfortunately, my printing is by no means very profitable. I have some repeat clients that pop up but I wouldn't particularly in this economy invest in more equipment. The printer has more than paid for itself even for my own printing needs, but I could never get this to a consistent business. Unfortunately, this is a good client, with a very large job coming up for me.
I have the new 700ml LM installed. Did a couple CL1s and a CL2 something looked like progress, but the main cowboy image I need to print on 4 different papers still has cringy banding in the sky. I will try again tonight. I've really never had an issue with this printer. I think I was in a sweet spot. Not commercial quantity printing, but enough large prints on a regular basis to keep the printer happy.
-
the only constant issues you seem to have between the different nozzle checks you posted originally are the one deflected nozzle in the top row of the PK and the missing nozzle in the yellow towards the bottom. You might be able to fix the yellow nozzle with some manual cleaning with cleaning solution or a head soak with cleaning solution in the cap, but it doesn't feel like this should be enough to cause such obvious banding. It looks to me like it would have to be something with the LM-- like it's not firing at the same density on half the head or something... Have you tried jacking up the print mode to the highest quality (1440x2880 it should be) and using the lowest possible head height? You may be able to get something usable at least to close out this one print...
also try printing unidirectionally-- it may end up being something as simple as a bidirectional alignment being out of wack after all the cleanings, and if that ends up solving it you could definitely go back to your desired print speed to make the print, then recalibrate your bidirecitonal offsets once the job is complete. IIRC the way to change to uni is to uncheck "high speed" in the epson driver.
Another method for trying to pinpoint the source of the issue would be to print on your LOWEST quality (like, set the printer for plain paper or bond paper or something, and use the lowest possible quality draft mode also with high speed unchecked-- this should make the printer do a single pass the full width of the head, then move the paper forward the full width, and as long as microweave and all that other jargon is off, you should then be able to see if there is a problem with a certain portion of the print head. You could go even further by printing just magenta or just cyan etc. etc. Without a RIP you won't be able to isolate single channels this way (except possibly for yellow if you really hit the color value of the ink itself on the head) you'd still be able to see majority of, say, M+LM and see if it is indeed one particular channel (still betting on LM here) causing the problem.
Unfortunately were you to isolate the issue to a specific channel, there wouldn't be anything else you could do without a RIP of some kind which would let you disable the offending channel and reprofile using the remaining good ones. Gutenprint should be able to do this for that model printer, but the process is defintely not for the faint of heart, and if you don't have a spectrophotometer to make your own profiles you'd be SOL anyway...
-
Wow Lessbones!
Great info. I will explore all your suggestions tonight. I did create in CMYK magenta gradient in PS and was printing that to check the nozzles. I'm now a little afraid to run the LM with too many CL 1 and CL 2 and perhaps blow out another Cartridge. I've overlaid my nozzle checks and do see a missing yellow lower left corner which hasn't come back with some CL 1 cleanings. Should I continue only doing pairs, or is it worth doing a full cleaning? Also I've run the alignment calibration a few times.
They printers History hs been excellent. I've always been able to get all nozzles printing perfectly. I always start the day with a nozzle check and have been quite pleased that everything has been perfect. I will google manual head cleaning. I did clean the capping station and put in a new wiper.
Logic would tell me. the "banding" is in the LM. The only Cartridge that is blown out was the LM. So is it the chicken or the egg? Was it leaking and that effected the nozzle, or my attempts to clear the nozzle popped the cartridge. Crazy stuff.
Really appreciate your advice!
Max
-
I was reading at: https://myx900.com/
Does this apply to the 9890? Would anyone recommend this?
SS Cleaning: Maintenance Mode 1 (Hold the Pause button at power on)
SS Cleaning has a strong ultra sonic component. The Piezo Elements internal to the Print Head are used to attempt to break up pigment particles that may be clogging the interior of the Print Head.
Use SS Cleaning when a Nozzle can not be cleared through normal cleaning.
-
huh? I'm pretty sure that says "2018" so unless you're living in the future Dan....
I'd just get a new LM cartridge-- the unstable nature of those missing nozzles does suggest that there is some issue with the pressure system, and that one having exploded confirms it. Did you check your other carts? If that's the only one experiencing the issue then it's most likely just a failure of an O ring or something else in that cart itself-- if any of the others also have this happening then you could have a bigger problem, but your nozzles all look relatively good except for the randomness of the dropout pattern, which is almost always caused by a bad seal somewhere causing air bubbles to be introduced into the lines.
The whole pressurization system is in parallel, so one failure like this could easily cause problems with the other ink lines as well. Hopefully just replacing that one will fix it.
I meant the printer. Introduced in Oct. 2010, that makes it 14 years old from introduction, although it certainly could be newer. It really doesn't matter.
I would start with replacing the cart. Anything beyond that mechanically not sure I would spend anything on it.
My 9890 was the best printer I ever had. Never clogged. The head lasted 10 years which is exceptional. Gave it away for parts when the head went south.
-
Hello Everyone!
Thank you for sharing your knowledge with me.
just applying observational logic, though the printer is not new and heads do die. the correlation with the fact the Light Magenta cartridge is the only cartridge to blowout and leak, and having difficulty with my test pattern, lends me to believe they are connected. I have not found anyone online yet who has experienced a blowout of a relatively full 350ml cartridge? This is not out of the rubber port. Clearly the ink has escaped all withing the cartridge. And that ink has leaked through the parting line of the container. I had only done gentle CL 1s and a couple CL 2s.
I have a fresh 700ml Light Magenta in it now. I will work on it this morning. Just so I don't blow out another Cartridge. Any precautions on cleaning cycles? I will only do pairs.Should I just avoid CL 1 since it is too gentle. Do an 8x10 after each cleaning?
I've only ever done one CL 3. Never a CL 4. I read about how it creates a vacuum in the capping station to clear the head. I don't believe it is dry ink. I print regularly enough. This printer is going to be 9 years old in January. but it never has commercial lever use. I've run many 24" rolls of Cold Press, and several 44" of Premium luster and Matte Canvas. Its always been powered up, as recommend to me.
Is it okay to just run CL 2s?
Your thought on CL 3 or CL 4? Any concerns on those? Are they just more vacuum, or do they do some other task? Should I attempt a CL 4.
I'll replace my maintenance tank today just in case.
Its a shame, I just got an email this morning from my client to ask for updated quote on the other sizes they need for their interior project.
Thanks.
-
HThis is not out of the rubber port. Clearly the ink has escaped all withing the cartridge.
this really isn't clear until you've opened the cartridge up, but it's also not all that important. In thinking about this more overnight, you could be having an issue with the LM damper-- there might be some kind of starvation happening because of dried ink in the damper that is causing bubbles-- there really are so many potential issues, but you're not gonna be able to drill down to them unless you try out the steps that I've given you earlier and pinpoint the issue.
I personally hate to think of these machines as consumable products, which is why I've spent so much of the last 15 years of my life tearing them down and rebuilding them. Peizoelectric heads like those used by Epson and most of the rest of the printing industry (except for the notable exceptions of Canon and HP) require levels of maintenance that simply can't be done automatically-- they really do require manual removal and cleaning and purging to stay in good shape over long periods of time, and they most certainly ARE consumables. Epson seems to finally have acknowledged this in it's industrial level printers but creating methods for the user to be able to replace the heads, but they still sell their fine-art printers at a much lower price and expect the entire unit to be replaced when theres a single problematic nozzle. It really sucks as a business model for someone who understands basic mechanical appliances, and I've done my damndest to learn as much as I can about how their systems work, and I've replaced the heads/dampers/capping stations, main boards, and just about everything else possible in these machines in my time with them.
I wouldn't be able to operate properly at this stage in my printing life without a RIP that allows disabling/remapping of a channel. Unfortunately there aren't many of them that can do this, and they can be expensive. Almost all of them can turn off a single color and reprofile without it. It's when you get into the issues of needing to swap one color with another that most of them start to balk. Ergosoft is great for this purpose-- Onyx can do it, Flexi can do it, Caldera, and Colorgate (to a degree) but the only RIP I'd really recommend to anybody who isn't an absolute professional or at least a completely obsessed nerd would be Mirage, and last time I checked I don't think you can swap channels.
Anyway, rant aside, I would stop doing cleanings. You need to figure out where the issue is, and these cleanings are doing nothing but potentially exacerbating it. If you indeed have some dried ink in the LM damper or ink system leading to the head you're not gonna be able to push it thru those tiny nozzles to clear it if it was strong enough to cause the ink to blow back out of the port into your cartridge (which is what I think happened, I dont think the cart itself leaked, but no way to know for sure without opening it. You CAN put it back together if that's what you're worried about.
By the way, I'm not even sure what CL1 CL2 correspond to these days, I would assume that they are just more passes of the wiper.
Basic theory of operation is this:
Regular cleanings are a process in which the head uses the piezo elements to fire a bunch of ink into the waste ink pad, and then the wiper physically wipes across the surface trying to clean off any excess ink on the face of the nozzle. This is in theory useful for ink that could be dried up on the nozzle plate surface, but as it actually fires the nozzles there is a chance that you could cause more damage to the head if there's a really bad clog in a specific spot, because the peizo crystals in the nozzles that are responsible use the ink as coolant, and if there is no ink flow to that particular nozzle, it could burn out.
Power cleanings on the other hand, position the head over the sealed portion of the cap (in the 9890/9900 there is only a single width cap, so it can only do 1 pair of channels at a time, hence why it takes so long. Other printers, and the older 11880 would seal the entire head and do all nozzles at once) This procedure builds up negative pressure using the pump inside the capping station, then releases a stopper valve which causes it to PULL ink through the head-- therefore not firing the nozzles at all. This can be a much safer option to clear certain types of clogs as it requires no nozzle firing, and therefore no strain on the head itself. It uses quite a bit more ink, but it also can actually force through stubborn particles without having to actually "shoot" them out of the nozzles. If you're going to continue cleaning, I would only use this type on that channel right now, but I still think you should try my troubleshooting steps and post pictures back first so we can evaluate further.
-
Thanks Less!
I began your recommendations last night. I went to the lowest level quality 1 720x720, turned off high speed. and the result did not look better. I'll continue your other recommendations. I loaded a 44" roll of premium glossy, did a bunch of 6"x42" Magenta gradients to make sure all Magentas were being used. Still those lines.
You brought up an interesting point, I have always only done paired cleanings in Maintenance mode which gives me 4 options CL 1-4. I only do a CL 2 which I thought was a stronger cleaning than CL 1. Only once have I done a CL 3. I will have to search and see if the Power cleaning is a different process I have not tried. (Update I did in standard mode a paired "Execute Powerful")
Funny with the Gloss loaded I printed a strip of black and whites and some colors, all with a solid 1" black border and they came out perfect, but one with a dark blue sky I could perceive the missing lines.
This morning I ran the regular clean, then the Powerful, and in between print a large gradient. Here are the three test patterns. The missing nozzles do all move around in the same center zone. I made an animated GIf that cycles through the three as well. Any Analysis?
Should I try Windex?
Thanks
Max
PS, if i had one of the RIPs you mention, I could exclude light magenta and be able to print without the lines. So i understand if someone has a 9890 and the RIP could they just make a profile for me Sans Light Magenta so I can complete this Job. Or is that not how it works.
-
unless there's a scratch in that area of the LM nozzle plate, then it looks like a damper issue to me. There may be a hardened piece of ink in there that is causing the nozzles not to prime properly and its moving around slightly. This is a way more in line looking nozzle check for having that bad of a banding pattern. If it were me I would take the head out, suck some cleaning solution through it in reverse, flush out the damper, then put it back in and see if there was any improvement.
Do NOT use windex. The other thing that this looks like unfortunately is the beginning signs of delamination-- I don't know if the LM is close to one of the edges of the print head, but it doesn't necessarily matter, the adhesives can fail in the middle too. If that's the case, theres really nothing you can do (other than buying a RIP or a new printhead). And no, you couldn't have someone with a RIP make you a profile, it needs to be driving the printer to control the individual channels. Gutenprint can do this for you, but it's not gonna be easy to set up if you don't have a good understanding of ink limiting, dot size usage, color channel crossovers, and the ability to make your own ICC profiles... Plus I heard they stopped pushing builds of the mac version due to lack of interest anyway.
I'd do another power cleaning on that pair and if it still looks like that I think you're gonna have to start researching a new machine...
-
Any instructions online as you say to remove the head for cleaning?
You think they is dried in in front of the nozzle facing paper or within the head before the nozzles?
How hard is it to get a look at the nozzles? I have a digital microscope?
Clearly the nozzles gaps are moving around but staying in their lanes for the most part.
I have a older Mac, So Qimage may be able to do what I need even if it is difficult?
Thanks
-
Im talking about an actual disassembly-- there's almost definitely not anything you could accomplish by wiping the nozzle plate, you've done so much of that already I'm pretty sure it's completely clean. I remember there being a way you could see it if you manually moved it a little bit to the right of the pump cap with the right side cover removed and looked with a flashlight through the middle of some wiper assembly...
anyway there is some information to wade through here: https://myx900.com/ also you can find the service manual online without much difficulty if you want to go that route
-
I'd get a bottle of Piezo flush, and follow their capping station / head clean process, before getting to close to the screwdriver set. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8NkgKw7mDw
Years ago, I brought a very long parked Epson 4800 back from the dead (mainly because I was bored, and thought it might be fun)
-
Yea, the head is not dead YET. If you keep doing nozzle cleans it will be.
Replace the damper assembly before you do anything. It’s the first thing to do after cleaning the cap station and the bottom of the head ( as in the good video he posted. You can use distilled water or better piezo flush and bounty paper towels. Keep cleaning until you see no more ink there.
If you’ve done all this replace the dampers, 90% chance that’s the culprit. Been there several times. Most people replace heads unnecessarily or blow them with excessive cleaning of blocked dampers. We all get impatient when in the middle of work.
John
quote author=Richard.Wills link=topic=143976.msg1261395#msg1261395 date=1728407408]
I'd get a bottle of Piezo flush, and follow their capping station / head clean process, before getting to close to the screwdriver set. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8NkgKw7mDw
Years ago, I brought a very long parked Epson 4800 back from the dead (mainly because I was bored, and thought it might be fun)
[/quote]
-
Eh, personally I disagree. I'd be willing to bet that yeah while the whole head isn't dead, the LM channel is likely hosed from delamination. I've brought plenty of totally caked over heads back from the dead, and cleared out many a damper issue, but i've never seen anything target a specific LINE of nozzles like that except for an adhesive breakdown. If they were all deflected 100% of the time i'd say it was a scratch, but that kind of weird random blipping in and out usually means the seal is broken at that point IME
-
I'd get a bottle of Piezo flush, and follow their capping station / head clean process, before getting to close to the screwdriver set. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8NkgKw7mDw
Years ago, I brought a very long parked Epson 4800 back from the dead (mainly because I was bored, and thought it might be fun)
Is this what I need? AMAZON (https://www.amazon.com/Cleaning-Kit-Epson-Desktop-Printers/dp/B00EEDICRC/ref=sr_1_1?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.UcPd3YWKfeeFZ1NXV_aD5QNRKlDMa-wg4r1x-69Doss.NDyCWXwlqwHX2URENzPCJOg2gM-NIQm9S7jNaOvkLvw&dib_tag=se&keywords=PiezoFlush&qid=1728446736&sr=8-1)
How can I determine the right part number for the capping station? Thanks.
-
That's the chemical, but you don't need that mini-printer syringe.
-
This stuff works well too: https://www.inkowl.com/wide-format/wide-format-refilling/epson/1l-purge-fluid-for-epson-stylus-pro-and-surecolor-printers/P5581/
Or Printhead hospital that you can get on amazon
-
Eh, I have…….. a Yellow and an MK channel. One terminal clog on one channel only, two different machines.
Eh, personally I disagree. I'd be willing to bet that yeah while the whole head isn't dead, the LM channel is likely hosed from delamination. I've brought plenty of totally caked over heads back from the dead, and cleared out many a damper issue, but i've never seen anything target a specific LINE of nozzles like that except for an adhesive breakdown. If they were all deflected 100% of the time i'd say it was a scratch, but that kind of weird random blipping in and out usually means the seal is broken at that point IME
-
Eh, I have…….. a Yellow and an MK channel. One terminal clog on one channel only, two different machines.
Not sure what you're trying to say here. You cleared a "terminal" clog that appeared as a single row of nozzles out on a channel by replacing a damper? Because if you're trying to say you recovered a channel that wasn't firing AT ALL then yes, that I can believe.
-
Failed Cartridge Autopsy:
I carefully disassembled the Light Magenta 350ml. It initially appeared to be a rupture of the Mylar ink pouch. Based on ink covering the inner walls of the cartridge. I was under the assumption that the pressure to squeeze ink to the nozzle had been split with pushing ink into the cartridge chamber. I was wrong. The Mylar pouch is in tact. No ink within the pressurized area. I can't figure how the ink escaped from the nozzle port of that little dampener?
So, somehow during CL 2 and a Single CL 3 cleaning cycle the ink escaped into the right cartridge bay and seeped inside the outer shell, outside the pressure chamber.
So am I correct, while printing or doing a cleaning cycle, the pressure inside the cartridge helps squeeze the ink through the tubing, like a Capri Sun:-).
Somewhere between the printer's ink barb tip and the Mylar pouch something failed? I still think this is the source of my nozzle test problems. Is there air in the system? Is the damper clogged? I will check if there is any leaking from my new 700ml cartridge I have been using.
Am I correct that the pressure remains the same throughout CL 1- 4? That only the length of time and amount of ink used changes? a CL 4 isn't twice the pressure of a CL 1?
Any thoughts?
Max
-
if you further remove that bag you'll see that there's a plastic damper in there as well which you can see in image 11-- i THINK this is basically a one-way valve that is supposed to prevent any back pressure from pushing ink or pressure back into the cartridge, so that could have failed. But it's also possible in theory that there was enough of a clog somewhere in that light magenta line (prior to the head itself) that was blocking enough pressure that it eventually exploded back in the direction of the cartridge and overwhelmed the seals. If that were in fact the case, that could have broken up the clog, but caused some particles to enter the head itself and settle in the area of that row that is causing you issues. The only way to actually get these out (and this is really totally a theory at this point) would be to remove the head, put a syringe w a bit of tubing on the light magenta channel entrance and pull some cleaning solution or distilled water backwards through the head to try to evacuate. This is usually the first thing I do to any heads that have been sitting in a printer unused for a while, since the glommed together pigment particles will be too much to push through the nozzle plate apertures, and could possibly damage the piezo elements.
The dampers before the printheads have these little metal meshes that attempt to filter out any larger particles that could make their way towards the head, but if there was some ink drying AFTER this point they wouldn't be able to do much.
I posted this image in a different thread about ink solidification, and while this shows some extreme solidifying in the orange ink (which you don't have in that machine) I did find more than I expected in the magenta channels specifically after this. I didn't actually get around to finishing this project off-- last time I plugged in the head nothing was firing at all, so I'm expecting that either I did something stupid and shorted out some pins in the FFC cables when I replaced the head after cleaning, or something just isn't seated right. I do plan on continuing at some point, but the potential project I had for this (a dye-sub conversion using fluorescent inks) fell through before I really felt like investing further time in it. At least the ink system is cleared out now and it's all cleaning solution sitting in the lines/head.
Also sorry that image is tiny, i accidentally downloaded the thumbnail, but even there you can see the little orange snake of solid pigment oozing out of the end of the connector.
-
Thanks Less!
Crazy picture, that is the output of the tubes going into the damper correct?
Clearly something cause the ink cartridge case cover (short side) to fill with ink. As the pressure in the chamber tries to send ink to the head, somehow ink came back into the cartridge chamber. The ink bag did not rupture, nor the plastic seal of the pressure chamber. I DO NOT THINK IT WAS my cleaning cycles, because the LT Cyan pair is fine.
I am expecting syringes Friday, and have watched a couple vids on removing the damper and cleaning that first. If that does not work I can try reverse waterfall on the head, but I'd rather not remove it:-) I bet if I could measure the pressure, the Lt Magenta is not getting as much pressure to the damper or head. Maybe the damper will sow ink leaking as well. Wish me luck, ARGGHH!
If I need to replace the DAMPER, do I need the Service Program. Is it taboo to ask if anyone has the Service program, I see its the same for any of the 7900-9900 series.
Thanks gang!
-
On this unit you replace what is called the “ink selector unit” which contains all the dampers. Gunk accumulates over time. A printer of this vintage should have it replaced regardless. On earlier units it was super easy to replace each one individually, not anymore. I would ask on the Epson io group about a service program. It might be in the files section.
Thanks Less!
Crazy picture, that is the output of the tubes going into the damper correct?
Clearly something cause the ink cartridge case cover (short side) to fill with ink. As the pressure in the chamber tries to send ink to the head, somehow ink came back into the cartridge chamber. The ink bag did not rupture, nor the plastic seal of the pressure chamber. I DO NOT THINK IT WAS my cleaning cycles, because the LT Cyan pair is fine.
I am expecting syringes Friday, and have watched a couple vids on removing the damper and cleaning that first. If that does not work I can try reverse waterfall on the head, but I'd rather not remove it:-) I bet if I could measure the pressure, the Lt Magenta is not getting as much pressure to the damper or head. Maybe the damper will sow ink leaking as well. Wish me luck, ARGGHH!
If I need to replace the DAMPER, do I need the Service Program. Is it taboo to ask if anyone has the Service program, I see its the same for any of the 7900-9900 series.
Thanks gang!
-
You don't need the service program for any of this. You do need to either enter service mode to uncap the head, or unplug the printer while it's in the middle of moving the head in order to unlock it from the cap unless you open the entire right side up and turn the gears manually. iirc the service mode is hold OK, right, and down while powering on-- I literally had to recall this by putting my hand in the cramped position I use to press these buttons at the same time then thinking about which buttons those actually would be. The service program is really only useful if you replace the head and you need to write to the motherboard the new code which contains the ideal voltages for the new head. The name of that value is escaping me at the moment, but it's not necessary yet.
You COULD replace the whole assembly-- basically it consists of a flat backplate with very thin tubes that connect from the ink tubes themselves (see attached photos). This distributes the ink to the 5 dampers, each of which handles two ink channels. In the case of the black ink on this model there is another set of "sub dampers" and a motor which changes whether matte or photo black ink ultimately flows into the damper for that channel. If you're paying attention you'd realize that there are actually 10 channels here, and only 8 inks being used at any given time, and yes, that's because this printer is identical to the 9900 just with two empty slots where the orange and green could go. So you actually have two unused channels in your head that can't be used here. Epson easily could have had both matte and photo black loaded simultaneously in the 9890 by utilizing one of these extra channels, but they didn't want to have two different SKUs for the damper/ink selector assembly, so you still have to waste time and ink swapping between the two even though you have an empty damper and two extra channels sitting right there.
Anyway, the dampers connect to that backplate by snapping into a clear plastic housing-- they're a little tricky to get out, but once you've done it a couple of times it's not so bad, and then you can rinse out and clean each damper individually (or replace them) instead of replacing the entire assembly.
if you're going to start messing around with this BE DAMN SURE that you eject at least one cartridge before turning the printer off and starting to unscrew things, otherwise the system will stay pressurized and you'll have ink spraying out everywhere (instead of dribbling out, which will happen regardless). It's a messy process, and there are lots of opportunities for causing bigger problems-- the flat flex cables leading to the head are particularly sensitive, and they can tear easily, but I find that it's even easier to get a tiny bit of ink into the slots where they connect to the head, which causes a short between pins, and usually will at least blow a microscoping fuse on the motherboard when you next power it on if it doesn't take out the whole board itself.
Also I know I'm skipping some steps that are just muscle memory at this point, but the printer should be unplugged, and after unplugging it you should try to turn it ON again, which will help drain the caps on the motherboard so there isn't any electricity still stored in them. Either way it would be wise to leave the printer unplugged and alone for 30 mins or so before starting to do anything that involves plugging or unplugging wires just to be safe.
It's funny to me that they have protections on this board against shorts, but epson only ever instructs techs to replace the whole thing (at a cost of ~$2000). A few times I've blown these fuses, and once I found out my error I either replaced them or just bridged the connection with a bodge wire with full realization that if I ever got to that point again I'd end up frying the board. That usually has only been at a point at which the printer was about to be thrown in the trash anyway (11880 converted to dye sub I think was the one I had to do that to-- god what a nightmare that thing was).
Anyway all of this is a pretty major digression-- you could end up cleaning all that out and not get anywhere in terms of fixing your actual issue. I keep talking about reverse suction on the head, and that's actually what I would try first in this case--
Once you get all the covers and things off of the head carriage there are only 3 screws that actually attach the whole damper assembly to the printhead itself. One is in one of those rectangular holes in the middle, and two are on the sides-- I believe these screws are usually black to differentiate them from the rest of the ones that hold the assembly itself together. Once you remove these screws you can gently rock the whole big plastic assembly back and forth and pull it straight off of the head-- in the case of the 9890 since you're at an angle I'd put some paper towels down underneath this area to catch any ink dripping out. You also need a pretty long philips to be able to reach these screws, especially if you haven't gone through the whole procedure of removing the top cover (which absolutely sucks). The added bonus to taking off the whole assembly is that the dampers offer some protection from the ink just flowing out all over the place, since they're literally there to regulate that pressure. They allow ink through via suction, not via pushing it, so it's actually the action of the printing and firing nozzles itself that keeps the ink flowing through them-- otherwise you'd need to press on the sides of them to allow the ink to pass through.
If you've gotten this far, and things are not totally destroyed yet, you can gently pull the 4 flex cables out of their slots on the head, and then there are 4 #1 philips screws that hold the head in the carriage. After that point you can remove the head. The picture (the one that's actually mine, not the obviously ripped from the internet one) is of the top of the ink selector assy of a 4900-- this one is considerably easier to access because of the orientation of the machine and less stuff in the way, but it's identical to the 9890/9900 in every other way.
-
Less!
Really appreciate your time man. I'm always in Service mode:-) I am going to attempt flushing the damper, specifically LT Magenta.
I had a weird thing yesterday, I had powered off the Epson overnight per someones recommendation. It has always been "on", then I turned on in the morning and I did not notice it at first, because I was concentration on LT Magenta nozzles. But my magenta test pattern turned BLUE!!!
Since Magenta and Cyan live on opposite sides, the cross contamination must have occurred in the Dampers or further up the line. Its mostly back to magenta now. I did some Quadtone RIP color channel flushes. Crazy since I have not done (until this morning a regular Magenta cleaning).
Great advice about remove a cartridge first to release the pressure, I would have missed that. I will print out your suggestions when I try this.
Your thoughts Less. The Lt Magenta leaked ink I think from back pressure. The head is missing random center nozzles. The leakage is not caused by my cleaning cycles, because Lt. Cyan cart is perfect. The Damper could be indeed partially clogged. Could the Blue Magenta test pattern be from the Dampers? I know clearly the head is the next culprit.
Can you thumbs up or down that someone claimed this could be caused by the Cleaning unit. But it is creating a vacuum to extract the ink from the head? Someone said if you go in from the right side, you may see leaked ink implying a vacuum leak. I'm leaning towards the damper. The Cleaning unit most likely would not of created the back pressure leakage.
Here are a couple pictures of my ink chambers. Also, here is an 8 channel output., Still not good enough but I've seen worse? Any thoughts.
Thanks
Two excellence videos on removing and clean the damper:
How To Remove The Printhead On A Epson 9890 Wide Format Printer for Cleaning - Part 1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgqWvZDDbhQ)
and
Epson Stylus Pro 7900/9900 Ink Damper Assembly Cleaning & Flushing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7DtOcMmmRQ&t=1s)
and
Epson SureColor SC–P7000 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRdLoVSvJuw)
-
I got my 60ml and 30ml syringes today. I'm hope they are all stand sizes. The nozzle looks a little large. Just so I don't take everything apart, what size diameter tubing do I need to have to fit inside or over the barbs? I read 3.5mm ID but could only find 3.. on Amazon. then I read 1/8" ID 3/16" OD silicone tubing? Id like to have it on hand before I open everything up.
-
In researching cleaning and replacing my dampers, I came across this. Any thoughts on just replacing the single damper? I old but flushed OEM vs a new non OEM damper? it would cross off the LT Magenta Damper as a potential issue. Does the 9890 8 color use all 5 dampers or just 4? could the 5th damper if installed be switched to my LT Magenta?
-
Ok-- been offline for a few days--
so in my thinking, it doesn't make sense that the damper could be causing such a problem since the dampers are a single input single output component designed to regulate negative pressure-- it seems logical to me that if the damper were blocked, it would act like a clogged artery-- you'd get problems with ink starvation throughout that channel. Because you have just a single line of nozzles playing up, I don't understand how the damper could be the issue. I could be wrong, but that's what it seems like to me. Personally I would clean out the dampers you have now instead of getting those bootleg ones-- ive had a lot of experience with third party dampers, and they're basically a total crapshoot. That said, I don't really think dampers "fail" -- they're just a piece of plastic stretched across a spring that pushes outward on the plastic, causing a negative fluid effect-- when pulled at from their exit they allow ink to pass through. Unless punctured or somehow stretched, I wouldn't think they would fail very commonly in that manner. Sure they can become filled with caked up solidified ink, but you can usually flush them completely out with some cleaning solution or windex fairly easily. If you want to know for sure, take out two dampers, clean them, then swap their positions. Or even just rotate the one damper for the C/M 180 degrees.
3mm ID tubing should be about right, I don't completely remember offhand, but that sounds normal. Also, those syringes are going to be a pain-- get some with Luer Lock ports-- these are used in catheters, and they have a screw on interface, but also have a little nub that the tubing usually fits onto perfectly. Also get a bag of the short luer lock tips.
The magenta and cyan are directly next to each other-- it doesn't matter where the cartridges are in the machine at the beginning-- their lines lead to a shared damper, so that's why you had that mixing of ink-- it's definitely from ink being sucked up into the nozzles, not from somewhere upstream more-- it's not possible for the ink to mix anywhere else in the ink system without there also being a catastrophic leak, which is not what you're experiencing here.
-
So are you saying I can 180 degree the Damper and switch cyan to magenta (cleaned out obviously) and it is okay to be rotated. If Dampers are not the issue why does everyone state you need to replace them every couple of years? mine are original.
One last question:-) After reassembly, what is the safest procedure to re prime the the nozzle? Regular Paired Cleaning, Print a Flush Image from QuadTone Rip, etc? Someone said do a SSclean, but that x900 site says NEVER run the SSCLEAN.
So if it is not the Damper then I have to remove the head and flush it. That is what I wanted to avoid.
-
the best things to do after any major replacements are power cleanings (or clean pairs- powerful) since this uses suction to pull the ink through the head instead of firing the nozzles, which can be a bad thing to do when there's no ink present (the ink also acts as coolant for the peizo elements). But after you dissasemble things like this you should at least run a single power clean on everything, then maybe you can focus on individual channels that are still giving problems. Either way, power cleanings are the least aggressive, although they use more ink than regular ones. SS cleaning should be avoided.
I think the reason people say to replace the dampers is more because they don't want to deal with flushing them out-- also a technician would always replace them and not try to spend a bunch of time cleaning the old ones because afterwards it would be too hard to pinpoint an actual cause of the problem. Just replacing them with new ones and trashing the old is a more surefire way to rule out a potential problem. I've been through so many different third party dampers and I almost always have ended up switching back to old OEM ones that were cleaned because the 3rd party ones had other weird issues. Either way they're cheap shitty pieces of plastic, but they will charge sometimes $100/each for the "real" ones. Who knows who actually manufactures these, and to what tolerances. I have found that often the good quality ones tend to have a blue sharpie dot on them for some reason, maybe indicating that someone actually did QC it.
-
I have some Dx6 and Dx7 dampers coming from 2 sources. Yes they are cheap but the ones that are 5x the price are probably the same source. I've learned a lot about Roland and the other companies using all the Epson parts. I think Mutoh sells a single OEM damper for $105!!!
I was asking around but didn't get a definitive answer Since the 9890 only uses 4 dampers, I wondered if my selector did in deed have the unused 5th damper, I know the middle damper is different, but,, I may already have a spare OEM damper I can use right in the printer:-)
i'm pretty sure all the DTG printers use these generic dampers. There is a screen inside and if blocked could reduce flow and pressure to the head. remember, i still have the evidence of my LT. Magenta blowing out. To me that is pressure getting blown back.
-
yes most of those companies used the same epson heads head once upon a time (and some today still)-- i've taken a 9900 printhead and put it in a mimaki solvent printer before with no issues. So yeah, they're intercompatible. Also I answered your question about the 5 dampers in my post a few days ago so yeah, it has all 5 dampers but it uses all uses them in a weird way-- it might actually use one side of two of them with both having an empty side or something like that, I can't completely remember. The middle damper isnt different, theres a whole extra assembly that you take off and then it has 5 identical dampers.