Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Lust4Life on January 31, 2024, 08:07:14 am
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Anyone have a chance to compare these in real life, not just specs?
Dramatically different sensors, but which generates the best RAW file before manipulation, etc.
Last Hassie I shot was the H5D-50c WiFi with the smaller sensor compared to the H6D-100.
One of the best images I ever shot was with the Leaf P45+, I should have stopped there! LOL
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Wow, I am amazed not one of us has made an actual comparison of the two, side by side, on tripod of landscapes.
Guess I'll buy one and give it a shot.
The sensor is what I am seduced by and over 2024 prices used should drop dramatically at first.
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I think there have been lots of comparisons done.
Here is one by Karl Taylor, but not specifically on landscape.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5GjcpJeKUs
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Thanks Bob!
That one I missed and is exactly what I was looking for.
Excellent review and pushed me in the right direction, buy the X2D-100!
Now, to define what lenses are optimal for landscape work and to sell my Fuji GFX 100S with about 1,680 clicks on it.
The lens I have used 95% of the time is the 20-35. Rarely the 32-64. I also have the 100-200 but I admit I have never shot it other than test shots.
I bought it all new.
Will search XCD lens discussions for landscape work and see what I find.
Again, Thanks Bob!
Jack
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I am wondering what you did not like of the Fuji 100s and the 20-35mm lens...
Seemed to me an ideal combination.
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Greetings Kers,
Frankly, the GFX with the array of lenses I have is excellent and the cost of entry is very reasonable compared to the Hasselblad system!
I ordered all of my gear from B&H and tested lenses for sharpness before accepting them.
Now the given is that I have done almost all my work as B&W, but over the last couple of years for some reason, I'm enjoying color more and
more, and have decided to focus on it for what time I have left. I prefer by a small margin the RAW out of the box colors of any Hasselblad camera.
Couple that with the fact that I shot film and then digital almost all of my life with Hasselblad gear, until the GFX which I do enjoy.
However, I'm now 77 and I am entitling myself to one last crazy "Tool" (that is code for "Toy"") before I kick the bucket.
Rather than a fancy or classic 57 Chevy convertible, or full classic like a Packard, it's getting back to color on what I shot most of my life, a Hasselblad.
Last one I had was the H5C-50 WiFi. Sold it when GFX came out after testing it as I felt it was just as good and far less expensive.
GFX also has far more features I had never worked with. Also thought I wanted to do more general work, not just landscapes, that has not manifested.
Now, GFX with 3 lenses, I just can't haul it around as I can no longer hike due to health. Target is one body, one or two lighter lens now.
Last, there is a romantic element, I love HNCS colors.
Add to that, I consulted with Nikon, Leaf (now Phase), and Hasselblad in
developing their first digital cameras due to my lessons learned at Eikonix.
Yes, decades ago, but seems fitting now that the X1D/X2D has been around for a couple of years so most bugs should have been
resolved and I want to end shoot the "Hassie"
My last "Toy" syndrome. Just that simple.
Long answer!
Never ask an Ole Man "Why"!
Jack
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Im thinking you should try both for yourself being a landscape shooter and most likely shooting some panos H6D 53.4x40.0 vs X2D 43.5x 32.9 might not even be noteworthy but a quick comparison will let you know.
Im in the opposite camp of you only a young 70 I have the H6D-100c and looked hard at the X2D-100c system nope couldn't do it YET! Why its not a mirrorless camera...it is supposed to be but there are still a few things Hasselblad would need to sort out before I but in. I shoot landscapes but Id rather shoot people, I shoot product but Id rather shoot models and I shoot street but I have other options for that.
Improvements needed
B&W Preset in viewfinder
No zebra of highlight warning in viewfinder
Focusing issues
No joy stick or button
Other info not in viewfinder.
Its a no brainer that Hasselblad color is the best and that the X2D is a small package and on a tripod either one works but handheld the X2D is the clear winner as long as one can or wants to live with its limitations.
Enjoy your last quarter that's what I say and buy a few cameras so you don't need to change lenses.
Barry
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Greetings Youngster,
Thanks for your thoughts. The one sentence I found most interesting is:
"Its a no brainer that Hasselblad color is the best and that the X2D is a small package and on a tripod either one works but handheld the X2D is the clear winner as long as one can or wants to live with its limitations."
Now, if you remove the handheld from the equation, and both the H6D-100 and the X2D-100 are put on the table in front of you, assuming you can ignore the "improvements needed", do you reach for the image from the X2D over the H6D?
I shoot strictly landscapes, wide-angle, and panos, plus always on a tripod. Those of us like myself, you know, more mature, come with tremors. :-)
With the improvements you mention, I can see where a photographer who has varied subjects, would be concerned. As to myself, no issue.
I'm after the sharpness, which I expect is a toss-up between Hassie and GF (Fuji), Dynamic Range, and color depth/tone.
Curious.
A BIG concern I have is the now Chinese-controlled Hassie is not the Hassie I consulted with or relied on for decades. DJI is notorious in the drone industry for innovations that are not field tested by the consumer, for horrible updates to correct what is known as a defect, and for the worst service.
Reading terrible support is now showing up when an XCD lens needs repair, or if you even want to buy one, the back orders for lenses keep on being pushed further back from what was promised to their dealers.
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I have had limited (very enjoyable) experience with Hasselblad so can't offer advice on which camera, but I think you are wise to stay involved with photography and get something that you really enjoy. I will be 70 next month, I had been looking for a bigger ( used ) chainsaw for some time to no avail. My wise wife said "just buy a new one, don't wait until you are too old to use it".
Some years ago, I was visiting my uncle who was well into his 80s and had just bought a fancy new truck. He said some people must think I am a fool to do something like that at my age, but if I get just one day's enjoyment from it that is good enough for me. I like that philosophy.
Harold
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Harold, I have the same perspective, and I know my kids would blow through the inheritance, so the less I leave them the less harm they will do to themselves with what I leave!
It's interesting that I found I CAN hit a much-improved color spectrum from Fuji GFX with Capture One IF I turn the "Curve" setting from "Auto" to "Linear" in Capture One! Finding I can get the color dynamics where I want without a new Hasselblad expenditure. I am getting dramatically better greens and reds now.
Built a wild spreadsheet evaluating the X2D from every perspective and concluded to stick with what I have for now. Many factors that led to that conclusion, again the operative words are "for now".
I must now evaluate the wisdom of the 907X & CFV 100C. Love the idea of the sensor and lens only for far less weight in my camera bag, yet have the option to add in a 503CM Hassie body and lens if I want, or really go wild with a tech camera.
I love the options we have in our pursuit of gear for landscape work.
Jack
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Hey Jack,
I'm not sure there would be a case where the H6D gets picked over the X2D. H glass is H glass, weighs a ton & over a decade old. X glass is small, light & well engineered for the higher resolution CMOS sensors. There isn't a technical discussion where the X doesn't win against the H.
This is where that 'working' vs 'enjoying' comes into play. If an H makes you happy, by all means live it up. Figure it's the digital equal of the film resurgence.
-Joe
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Hey Jack,
I'm not sure there would be a case where the H6D gets picked over the X2D. H glass is H glass, weighs a ton & over a decade old. X glass is small, light & well engineered for the higher resolution CMOS sensors. There isn't a technical discussion where the X doesn't win against the H.
This is where that 'working' vs 'enjoying' comes into play. If an H makes you happy, by all means live it up. Figure it's the digital equal of the film resurgence.
-Joe
After extensive research, I decided to skip the H6 100 and purchased the X2D 100 with only one lens, 30mm.
Joe, I admit, this is far more a romantic and historical decision than technical. I started with Hassie at 20 and now at 77 want to end with it! LOL
No, it will not do the numerous things my GFX 100S, with 3 GFX lenses all purchased new and with less than 1800 click on it will do, that is no contest.
It is all emotional, not purely rational.
This is the "one" indulgence" I am allowing myself at this age and I will just enjoy the look and feel of the camera and the look of their LUT for the few color images I shoot.
Best to all,
Jack
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Hi, Jack and other old people!
I am 75 and still carrying a Linhof Techno, a IQ-150 and six lenses. I have an H2 with an IQ3-100 for "fast" or less weight situations.
I had thought I would go to an X2D 100 when the weight of my present gear gets too much and I am interested in your comment that the X2D 100 "will not do the numerous things my GFX 100S, with 3 GFX lenses . . . will do, that is no contest."
Would you like to explain what the X2D 100 cannot do?
Roger
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Hi Roger -
Long time no contact! Good to see your post here.
I gave up the Techno some time ago, due to weight and difficulty (for me) hauling in the field; moved to Alpa for easier tech (shifting) work - of course not as flexible as the Techno, but awfully easy to use.
The X2D is magical - the IBIS really allows you to shoot in lesser light hand held, and the file size allows heavy cropping and thus one lens can go further than you might imagine. The 30mm (and maybe the 28) do well for wide.
Of course, no movements.... but otherwise, it's a dream camera. With the smaller lenses it's portable, but the larger lenses get heavy. If you travel with a big kit, a Techno with lenses may end up lighter albeit tripod based. I always wanted a lifting handle on the Techno, as the little knob on the front would get caught getting out of the case! (small matters, but...)
Hope this helps,
Geoff
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Hi, Jack and other old people!
I am 75 and still carrying a Linhof Techno, a IQ-150 and six lenses. I have an H2 with an IQ3-100 for "fast" or less weight situations.
I had thought I would go to an X2D 100 when the weight of my present gear gets too much and I am interested in your comment that the X2D 100 "will not do the numerous things my GFX 100S, with 3 GFX lenses . . . will do, that is no contest."
Would you like to explain what the X2D 100 cannot do?
Roger
After using the X2D for several months, I am firm in the decision FOR MY WORK, it is definitely worth the cost of returning and abandoning the GFX 100s.
I first added the XCD 30, and just in the last couple of weeks bought a truely "mint" 21 for a very fair price.
Was recently feeling marginal one day, so I spent much of it looking at the meta data of near a thousand images shot of in GFX and the H series lenses I've owned going years back.
I found the following (again 95% landscapes)
20mm 35%
32mm 41%
50mm 20%
64mm 4%
That was interesting, and thus the XCD 21 and 30 are now my only two lenses.
Pondering with wisdom of Cumping both the 21 and 30 for a 20-35E ($5,929.00!!) and that will happen when the market builds up with USED units.
As to the 50 and 64's, simple solution is to just walk a little closer to the scene! :-)
but a used 35-75 just might show up at the right price.
One feature of the GFX was the focus stacking, and I had hoped in this new X2D firmware release Hassie would have it added, but no unless you are linked to a computer, etc. Hoping that field focus stacking will be along shortly.
But to me, the big win is the richness and fidelity of the colors.
Now, in arguments with myself, 90% of my shooting is B&W, so why be concerned with the color realm.
Well, I shot almost all of the GFX work in color, then converted to B&W with Capture One.
I have noticed that the richness of the X2D color "seem" to my eye give a richer and less harsh B&W image!
So, in short, totally delighted with my set of 3 X units from my Ole Faithful Hassie Clan.
Jack
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One feature of the GFX was the focus stacking, and I had hoped in this new X2D firmware release Hassie would have it added, but no unless you are linked to a computer, etc. Hoping that field focus stacking will be along shortly.
Jack
Focus Bracketing can certainly be done without being linked to a computer.
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Focus Bracketing can certainly be done without being linked to a computer.
Not within the X2D as with the GFX, or do you know something I do not know about the 4.x firmware?
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Not within the X2D as with the GFX, or do you know something I do not know about the 4.x firmware?
I don't own the camera but I do have the User Guide. Pg64.
It doesn't assemble the pictures for you but that is done in Photoshop or Helicon.
Added in Firmware version 2
It is standard on all the X.
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In User Manual, v. 1.4, 2023.06 page 64 discusses "Interval".
There is no Pixel Shift mentioned but a flavor if it was offered in the most recent firmware update that I have and installed.
Pixel Shift ONLY if tethered, as in studio, is not implemented.
Page 64 discusses Interval Shooting only.
Excellent YouTube on the new Studio Feature:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IBPLow1COM&t=201s
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Is there a reason P1 is not on your radar as an option?
When I hear someone that loves landscape, wants the best quality, and wants great service/support it obviously piques my P1 spider senses.
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Is there a reason P1 is not on your radar as an option?
When I hear someone that loves landscape, wants the best quality, and wants great service/support it obviously piques my P1 spider senses.
Sure it is, what is YOUR credit card number Doug?? LOL
I was actually asked by the French govt. to consult with a little Israeli company named "Leaf". I did, and found them to be quite bright and would actually impliment what was suggested. Advantage I have was past experience with Eikonix, AND I had a Howtek Hi Resolve Laser scanner, and my team developed a driver for it on SGI. Add to that a computer controlled Wing Lynch N2 film processor, pyrogalic based film developer, and was shotting Hassie 500CM and 4x5 sheet film, all B&W of course.
It took various iterations but when they reached the P45+ prototype, they matched the res but with better Dmax that I could pull out of my various film recipes and scanned at 8K dpi on the drum scanner!!
IF I had been smart, I would still be shooting that camera! Images were great!
Oh yes, now Leaf is P1. LOL
For the years I have left able to get vertical upon waking, X2D is where I "plan" to end this journey.
But then, "plans" are only as good as our ability to live by them! :-)
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PS: Almost bought this to just play with, P-45+ back with nice body too, but again, not in my plan however I came so close ...........
https://www.ebay.com/itm/375771287624
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In User Manual, v. 1.4, 2023.06 page 64 discusses "Interval".
Maybe download the latest User guide 1.6
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Maybe download the latest User guide 1.6
I was on Hassie site this morning and 1.4 was the latest they had posted, but will check again.
Just checked, 1.4 is the latest in English on hasselblad.com as of 4:19PM, 12/9/24.
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I was on Hassie site this morning and 1.4 was the latest they had posted, but will check again.
Just checked, 1.4 is the latest in English on hasselblad.com as of 4:19PM, 12/9/24.
https://www.hasselblad.com/my-hasselblad/downloads/#162
It is right there third from the bottom left hand side.
Also if you download the firmware you get the latest User Guide and Readme
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https://www.hasselblad.com/my-hasselblad/downloads/#162
It is right there third from the bottom left hand side.
Also if you download the firmware you get the latest User Guide and Readme
Interesting, as the three searches on Google did, one last night and two today, not take me to the same page you just shared!
Will review 1.6 tomorrow.
AND thank you for sharing!
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Cost, just that simple.
I know "Phase" as I consulted with Leaf before they became Phase in developing an array (sensor) that could
finally match 4x5 sheet film scanned at 8,000 dpi on the Howtek 8K laser drum scanner which I had (my team had developed a driver
for it on the SGI platform) and my own Wing-Lynch processor, thus I had total control to push and tweak to get the best out of
B&W film and developers.
Took several iterations of sensors but as I recall, remember this is back many decades, the P45+, 39MP was when they finally
matched the very best I could pull out of 2 1/4 x 2 1/4 OR 4x5 sheet!
I'd have thousands still in my IRA now if I had just stuck with that back!
In todays market, I can't justify the price delta from X2D to Phase, and I favor the LUT in the X2D as well for my color shots.
jb