Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: Ryan Mack on January 26, 2024, 07:43:07 am
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Designed for photography and fine art, the new imagePROGRAF PRO line features the newly developed LUCIA PRO II pigment ink designed to help improve the image quality from previous models while also enhancing resistance to light. Improved black density on art paper was achieved by changing the formulation and material of matte black ink, the color gamut of the dark region was expanded by the adoption of a newly designed image table. The new ink set can also work to help produce and preserve prints as a crystalline wax has been added to the ink, giving the printed surface better resistance to abrasion-caused scratches on glossy and semi-glossy media. The reformulated Chroma Optimizer is designed to give the surface a clear coat of transparent ink that helps suppress bronze phenomena and helps reduce uneven glossiness.
https://www.usa.canon.com/newsroom/2024/20240125-pro-printers
Wonder if this means they've fixed the yellow pigment longevity problem?
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According to Scott Martin Canon indeed improved the yellow ink. See the link below, that provides much more info than Canon has given so far:
https://www.on-sight.com/canon-pro-x600-aqueous-printers/
Looking into the many detailed info Scott provides made me thinking he might have been a beta tester.
And Peta Pixel provides pricing info at the bottom of this article:
https://petapixel.com/2024/01/25/canon-adds-three-11-color-printers-to-its-large-format-series/
cheers,
Remko
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I am so confused. In a few places it says "improved matte black formulation" and in a few places it says "all inks reformulated except matte black." Well, which is it?
edit: Never mind, it's the same matte black as imagePROGRAF GP-4000/2000 but it's new to the X600 series. I get it.
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Ugh, this pricing is painful. The 2600 costs what I paid for my 4000!
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Hmm, if the reviews are good for the B&W performance maybe I can replace my Epson 3880 with Piezography Pro inks (that's a pain to maintain) with a 2600 and my wife won't notice!
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For me, "To go along with the printers, Canon also launched two new fine art papers: Fine Art Etching 315 gsm and Fine Art Baryta 310 gsm" means they are confident that all our favourite monster papers should run just fine.
No wonder my dealer has been pushing me to make up my mind about a previous generation 44 or 60" model.
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I wonder if the new inks will work in the older 4000 and 4100 printers?
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Hopefully getting a PRO-2600 for review, but no ETA at the moment I'm afraid...
I'm also curious as to how this relates to a potential PRO-1000 makeover?
No new printhead, so the inks will be a significant aspect. Of course, there's a lot of areas of the PRO-1000 which could change, to go with that printhead and ink ;-)
I've a short [~7 mins] YT vid about it if anyone is curious
https://youtu.be/yMw7tjnKmbc
Very much looking forward to some Canon printer reviews this year ;-)
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As I am looking to replace my much loved 8300, the main questions are how much did Canon improve the ink longevity -- as the old inks are just not good enough in that respect for me to sell prints made with them as "Archival" IMO, and what will the the Epson response.
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I certainly hope that since they are marketing this as an improvement in longevity, they actually sponsor Wilhelm to do his assessment on it. Of course when that gets published, could be a year or two down the road.
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I certainly hope that since they are marketing this as an improvement in longevity, they actually sponsor Wilhelm to do his assessment on it. Of course when that gets published, could be a year or two down the road.
Yes, it's the one area I get asked about in connection with my reviews where I can usually offer no meaningful answer.
Well, that and asking about a printer I've had for a month or so, how it performs if you don't use it for six weeks... ;-)
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As I am looking to replace my much loved 8300, the main questions are how much did Canon improve the ink longevity -- as the old inks are just not good enough in that respect for me to sell prints made with them as "Archival" IMO, and what will the the Epson response.
I know a studio where they still regret that the successor of the 8300/8400 did not contain a green ink and by that printed a less saturated green. Wonder whether that is improved in the announced models.
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
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IT Supplies has the Pro 2600 listed at $3,053.00, the Pro 4600 at $5,091.00, and the Pro 6600 at $11,541.00 -
https://www.itsupplies.com/canon-imageprograf-pro-2600-24in-11-color-large-format-printer
https://www.itsupplies.com/canon-imageprograf-pro-4600-44in-11-color-large-format-printer
https://www.itsupplies.com/canon-imageprograf-pro-6600-60in-11-color-large-format-printer
I would assume the older models (2100, 4100, and 6100) will see a sale price pretty soon. Really doesn't make sense why Canon hasn't announced a replacement for the Pro 1000, especially since Epson now has the 5370.
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I wonder if the new inks will work in the older 4000 and 4100 printers?
I have been informed by Canon South Africa that they will not work in the older printers!
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I have been informed by Canon South Africa that they will not work in the older printers!
That would certainly be true by default. But I wonder if there's some way we could make it work by refilling carts and using a custom RIP :-)
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I have been informed by Canon South Africa that they will not work in the older printers!
That seems strange to me. I understand that if the new inks are a real improvement, that it will drive sales of the new printers. However, the money is in the ink and if they worked on the older printers that would really drive ink sales. Plus, it would make it easier for Canon to manufacture and stock only one type of ink.
I wonder if it is a problem of compatibility between the two ink sets. Since the print head is the same, I wonder if you could flush all the old inks and refill with only new inks?
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They said there was some firmware change related to enabling blacker matte blacks. So new inks probably need new code and there's little incentive for them to try to reprogram the old printers. Also they probably have physically changed the inks to prevent misinstallation into printer expecting other one.
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They said there was some firmware change related to enabling blacker matte blacks. So new inks probably need new code and there's little incentive for them to try to reprogram the old printers. Also they probably have physically changed the inks to prevent misinstallation into printer expecting other one.
So, Canon is marketing better environmental responsibility with improved energy efficiency and more "sustainable" packaging. But are we supposed to consign perfectly working older printers to the landfill just to gain these improvements along with improved ink quality? Seems like a false choice from an environmental sustainability perspective. Many of us won't be able to justify keeping both old and new running side by side if indeed the color reproduction has been noticeably improved on the new models. Finding a new buyer for older hard-to-relocate equipment? My guess is there's not a big market for an older Canon printer when you have to dump a ton of expensive ink just to ship it.
Maybe the new matte back ink formulation isn't easily retrofitted, but what about the yellow? That's where the majority of longevity improvement comes into play, and what many current owners of select Canon printer models would like to have. Given that there is a large installed user base of older printers that share the same print head, is it really that big of a deal for Canon to offer a "yellow+" version for the older printer fleet? Or, do we really have to hasten those printers to the landfill in order to gain improved energy efficiency and print longevity?
Just wonderin'
cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
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However, the money is in the ink and if they worked on the older printers that would really drive ink sales. Plus, it would make it easier for Canon to manufacture and stock only one type of ink.
My thoughts exactly!
I think it would be very cynical of them not to "make a plan"...!
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Woah, ITSupplies has instant rebate brining the 4600 down to $4k. That's low enough I'd consider upgrading.
https://www.itsupplies.com/canon-imageprograf-pro-4600-44in-11-color-large-format-printer
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So, Canon is marketing better environmental responsibility with improved energy efficiency and more "sustainable" packaging. But are we supposed to consign perfectly working older printers to the landfill just to gain these improvements along with improved ink quality? Seems like a false choice from an environmental sustainability perspective. Many of us won't be able to justify keeping both old and new running side by side if indeed the color reproduction has been noticeably improved on the new models. Finding a new buyer for older hard-to-relocate equipment? My guess is there's not a big market for an older Canon printer when you have to dump a ton of expensive ink just to ship it.
Maybe the new matte back ink formulation isn't easily retrofitted, but what about the yellow? That's where the majority of longevity improvement comes into play, and what many current owners of select Canon printer models would like to have. Given that there is a large installed user base of older printers that share the same print head, is it really that big of a deal for Canon to offer a "yellow+" version for the older printer fleet? Or, do we really have to hasten those printers to the landfill in order to gain improved energy efficiency and print longevity?
Just wonderin'
cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
Mark
I think that using a color from another set is not as easy, the inks from different colors will interact things like the wax etc).
From you're extensive database I've also learned that the paper is also very important.
And maybe that an protective spray will also have a positive effect.
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I have been looking for a 44 inch printer for a while now. Between the problems with the latest Epson printers having issues with Fine art media (which may or may not be fixed) and the earlier Canon's poor archival properties with their ink set, I have held off. With these new printers from Canon and their reformulated inks with better archival properties, I may jump in. But have we heard any specifics on what they surmise the longevity of these inks may be? Any new news?
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I don't know if this means anything, but when I went to B&H Photo to check on the New Pro-4600 they now have the "Top Seller" badge listed on the page. This is not surprising. If Canon really has fixed the ink longevity problem, they will sell a ton of these printers.