Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: Schrades on March 23, 2023, 08:03:25 pm
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I’m hoping someone can recommend an inexpensive desktop light and fixture for viewing prints. I searched the Forum, but most posts are fairly old and many of the suggested items are no longer available. I wanted to purchase the Grafilite 2, as recommended by Northlight images, but it seems to be out of stock everywhere I look, and it’s especially hard to get in the U.S. I want something relatively small, easy to move, and under $100. It’ll mostly be used when framing to check for dust, although I’d like it to be daylight balanced for semi-critical comparative print viewing. Any suggestions and advice will be greatly appreciated!
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All kinds of MR16 desk lamps.
Then find a Solux MR16 bulb (they are still around) and off you go.
See: https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=141874.0
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Thanks Andrew for your info. I found your link to the MR16 halogen bulbs. However, finding a desk lamp that will accommodate them has so far yielded no results. From my various Google searches, I've found that MR16 halogen bulbs are slowly being phased out in favor of the LED versions. Also, it seems the halogen version has been mostly used for track and recessed lighting fixtures. I think it may be possible to find a MR16 LED desk lamp and switch out the bulb for the halogen version. I read a blog article stating that most of the newer MR16 LED bulbs have been retrofitted with the same halogen version connections. If I do find an MR16 LED desk lamp that I like, I'll have to verify that the connections are compatible. I'll keep searching.
David
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Yes, such bulbs are being phased out but no LED can compare at this time.
See this thread while ignoring the nonsense from Frans:
https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=141796.0
There are some LEDs recommended if you forgo Solux.
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I’m hoping someone can recommend an inexpensive desktop light and fixture for viewing prints. I searched the Forum, but most posts are fairly old and many of the suggested items are no longer available. I wanted to purchase the Grafilite 2, as recommended by Northlight images, but it seems to be out of stock everywhere I look, and it’s especially hard to get in the U.S. I want something relatively small, easy to move, and under $100. It’ll mostly be used when framing to check for dust, although I’d like it to be daylight balanced for semi-critical comparative print viewing. Any suggestions and advice will be greatly appreciated!
This article mentions that the GrafiLite is based on Ottlite technology https://www.francescogola.net/review/grafilite-2-print-assessment-lamp-review/
Earlier Ottlite’s were based on fluorescent tubes, which I don’t think could change intensities or color. They have new products based on LED which may be the basis talked about. https://www.ottlite.com/ottlite-clear-sun-led
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I have an Ottlite; nothing special.
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I have an Ottlite; nothing special.
Fluorescent or LED?
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How about
Full Spectrum Solutions (https://www.fullspectrumsolutions.com/collections/full-spectrum-desk-lamps)
Tony
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How about
Full Spectrum Solutions (https://www.fullspectrumsolutions.com/collections/full-spectrum-desk-lamps)
Tony
Not seeing any spectral plots. So “full spectrum?”
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Yes, such bulbs are being phased out but no LED can compare at this time.
See this thread while ignoring the nonsense from Frans:
https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=141796.0
There are some LEDs recommended if you forgo Solux.
With all the FUD in that thread, in digging through it all I never did see a recommended LED in MR 16 configuration, that could be simply swapped out in my track light fixtures when my stock of Solux bites the dust.
Rand
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With all the FUD in that thread, in digging through it all I never did see a recommended LED in MR 16 configuration, that could be simply swapped out in my track light fixtures when my stock of Solux bites the dust.
There's a post of an MR 16 LED that wasn't recommended.
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There's a post of an MR 16 LED that wasn't recommended.
LOL
Rand
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I want something relatively small, easy to move, and under $100. It’ll mostly be used when framing to check for dust, although I’d like it to be daylight balanced for semi-critical comparative print viewing. Any suggestions and advice will be greatly appreciated!
Ilford has been advertising their new Ilfolux Colour Viewing Lamp recently (see here (https://ilford.com/product/ilfolux/)) which is LED based but can do 3000K, 4000K, 5000K & 6500K and is dimmable, it should be out shortly but I expect it'll be around $100 USD. Works off a 5V, 2A USB power adaptor (not included) so you should easily be able to get a suitable wall power adaptor or battery to run it. Image Science seems impressed with it, see their thoughts about it here (https://imagescience.com.au/blog/introducing-ilfolux) but really needs to be tested with a spectrophotometer to see how good (or bad) it is.
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Ilford has been advertising their new Ilfolux Colour Viewing Lamp recently (see here (https://ilford.com/product/ilfolux/)) which is LED based but can do 3000K, 4000K, 5000K & 6500K and is dimmable, it should be out shortly but I expect it'll be around $100 USD. Works off a 5V, 2A USB power adaptor (not included) so you should easily be able to get a suitable wall power adaptor or battery to run it. Image Science seems impressed with it, see their thoughts about it here (https://imagescience.com.au/blog/introducing-ilfolux) but really needs to be tested with a spectrophotometer to see how good (or bad) it is.
ILFOLUX is a good desktop lamp, not a standard viewing lamp. Check the R9 and R12 on their website. The prints may look good under it, but not accuracy. Especially vivid red and blue colors. Many Video LED lamps have better SPD, but you have to modify it to suit the viewing environment.
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ILFOLUX is a good desktop lamp, not a standard viewing lamp. Check the R9 and R12 on their website. The prints may look good under it, but not accuracy. Especially vivid red and blue colors. Many Video LED lamps have better SPD, but you have to modify it to suit the viewing environment.
Yep mostly just trying to fit into that ~$100 USD budget target Schrades is after. It seems like the Ilfolux is "good enough" for most casual viewing without breaking budgets, you'd aim to use something else if your budget and criteria required it (ie like a proper dimmable lighting booth, but you'd be able to afford that if your work depended on it). I'd say it would compare reasonably well to the Grafilite 2 in that cost bracket. Looking at the costs for some of the video LED strip lighting (ie Waveform Absolute Series) it's about 3x the cost once you factor putting it together + getting a dimmer I expect. I wouldn't recommend investing Solux anymore (unless you had some already) given the bulbs are not being made anymore + convenient fixtures are difficult to get & they are not dimmable.
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Yes, such bulbs are being phased out but no LED can compare at this time.
See this thread while ignoring the nonsense from Frans:
https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=141796.0
There are some LEDs recommended if you forgo Solux.
So Solux are phased out, Elko only shows 3500K and 4100K halogens that are in my opinion not different from the Osram Decostar 51 Cool Blue halogens that I bought some years ago. Powered with 12volt the 4500K type delivers 4100 when the voltage drops to 11,5volt in use. If you want to have 5000K then driving them at 16-17Volt is an option, their lifetime not that bad either then. A lot of lumen though and hot. See the link to a good article. Probably Solux types 5000K types got a thinner resistance wire to burn 5000K at 12volt.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/277326193_Qualimetric_Researches_of_Educational_Resources_Standardizing_of_Light_Conditions_in_the_Light_Booth
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
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So Solux are phased out, Elko only shows 3500K and 4100K halogens that are in my opinion not different from the Osram Decostar 51 Cool Blue halogens that I bought some years ago. Powered with 12volt the 4500K type delivers 4100 when the voltage drops to 11,5volt in use. If you want to have 5000K then driving them at 16-17Volt is an option, their lifetime not that bad either then. A lot of lumen though and hot. See the link to a good article. Probably Solux types 5000K types got a thinner resistance wire to burn 5000K at 12volt.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/277326193_Qualimetric_Researches_of_Educational_Resources_Standardizing_of_Light_Conditions_in_the_Light_Booth
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
Since I started to use violet LED with RGB phosphors I quit using Solux/Eiko and never looked back. They’re much less expensive and troublesome in the long run, easly avilable in EU and come in many forms (see link below). The only advantage of halogen I can imagine is presence of UV in their spectra (which I don’t care at all).
https://www.ledvance.com/consumer/human-centric-lighting
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Marcin,
Any particular version you've tried? I'm likely to shift production to a windowless concrete sub basement later in the year, and would love to spec out a decent illuminant for the prep, printing and post production area.
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Marcin,
Any particular version you've tried? I'm likely to shift production to a windowless concrete sub basement later in the year, and would love to spec out a decent illuminant for the prep, printing and post production area.
I'm using E27 bulbs, but all other Sun@Home products use the same SunLike (Toshiba TRI-R technology) Vrgb LED emitters, with wi-fi control of dimming and CCT 2200-5000K
http://www.seoulsemicon.com/en/technology/sunlike/casestudy/
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I would like to see viewing station illuminants evaluated with CYMK inks, not some set of pigments that, while they may be more representative of real world object colors, do not reflect the metameric error introduced by CYMK inks.
The way to do this is by creating ICC profiles using illuminant spectra as well as the D50 ICC standard. Then analyzing a range of colors against the two profiles.
This is better because metameric error from prints is limited to CYMK response, not various objects with spectra quite different that may, or may not, be much better or worse.
In the past I've measured spectra at a location a print will be placed and created a profile for that location. Works especially well in industrial settings with spikey fluorescent lighting. Really improves the color quality of a print.
Anyone doing stuff like this?
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This is better because metameric error from prints is limited to CYMK response, not various objects with spectra quite different that may, or may not, be much better or worse.
Isn’t that going to be less true with the fine art printers
that have red or green inks or other extra colors beyond CMYK?
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Isn’t that going to be less true with the fine art printers
that have red or green inks or other extra colors beyond CMYK?
Potentally yes, However, the extra colors tend to have spectral response w/o sharp cutoffs. I've not seen much difference between the Pro1000 with extra colors, and the 9800 with CYMK wih either fluorescent or LED illuminants. But I would expect some extra sensitivity with the Pro1000. Most likely to show up in red and blue colors in the Pro1000.
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Sold by Calibrite:
https://calibrite.com/us/product/calibrite-grafilite-color-viewing-light/
Rand
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I recently bought a few Dyson Solarcycle Morph lamps for my home and office.
https://www.dyson.com/lighting/solarcycle-morph
The CRI is only listed as ">90", but I find it to be very good.
Using the app, one can dial in the exact color temp you want (up to 6500k)
Perceived light quality is excellent.
Perhaps not suitable for absolute color-critical production work, but as an all around task lamp it is pretty nice.
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I recently picked up an Ilfolux, measuring quickly with my i1Pro in i1Share gave 95 CRI for all colour temperatures with some variance on temperature (note, my i1Pro is quite old so could be contributing to this):
3000K = 3040K
4000K = 4065K
5000K = 5129K
6500K = 6540K
Overall I'd say it's not a bad choice for the price ($149 AUD). I've attached SPD's from Argyll if someone feels inclined to look at it further.
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Considering the CCT Kelvin values define a large variable, what's your test supposed to show when instead, you could plot and show it's SPD? That is far more useful.
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Sure, was trying (in between things) to figure out if it matched Ilford's specifications they had published. Just wondering if anyone has been able to test the new Calibrite GrafiLite yet?
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Sure, was trying (in between things) to figure out if it matched Ilford's specifications they had published. Just wondering if anyone has been able to test the new Calibrite GrafiLite yet?
Those SPDs are not that impressive.... ;)
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Those SPDs are not that impressive.... ;)
Yes that's what I figured for the cost vs (the now hard to get) Solux or other professional light booths/sources. For me it seems "good enough" as I got it mostly to be a desktop lamp with occasional print evaluation use. Was there a central source to collate light source SPD's + other lighting information as it would be helpful I think as it would help inform others on what's worth getting if it's been measured. The Calibrite Grafilite to me looks like it's based off a standard folding light design with the clock/temperature LCD display (I've seen a few variations of it here in Australia) but I expect with higher quality LED light sources.
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Sure, was trying (in between things) to figure out if it matched Ilford's specifications they had published. Just wondering if anyone has been able to test the new Calibrite GrafiLite yet?
Thank you for the actual measured SPDs. But it looks really unattractive IMO... :'(
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Guys, it's been a long time, I want to know what's the best ottlite? They wrote about these lamps here, my budget is $100
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You might think you need a desktop lamp for this, but a good floor lamp, if placed right, can do the job. I did it myself and ended up saving some money. Check out the floor lamps (https://www.sunmory.com/collections/floor-lamps) on the Sunmory website, they have a lot of great options.
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Guys, it's been a long time, I want to know what's the best ottlite? They wrote about these lamps here, my budget is $100
You probably would want to consider the Grafilite which is on sale at $99 USD right now at Amazon (link (https://www.amazon.com/CALIBRITE-Grafilite-Viewing-Evaluation-CALB151/dp/B0BZWTKG48/)) which is very similar to the OttLite LED Task Lamp (link (https://ottlite.com/products/prevention-by-ottlite-led-task-lamp-with-digital-display)). The Grafilite is from Calibrite now and intended for A4 print reviewing, Keith Cooper did a review here (https://www.northlight-images.co.uk/grafilite_2/).
If you wanted a larger lighting area the Ilfolux (https://ilford.com/product/ilfolux/) could also be considered (keeping in mind it's not as good as more expensive solutions, but same ballpark as the Grafilite), I've yet to see a SPD comparison for the Grafilite for these lower cost options but the larger lighting area and arm/clamp options are a nice option to have. Keith Cooper also did a video review of it here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45-XAqHVglQ).
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So Solux are phased out, Elko only shows 3500K and 4100K halogens that are in my opinion not different from the Osram Decostar 51 Cool Blue halogens that I bought some years ago. Powered with 12volt the 4500K type delivers 4100 when the voltage drops to 11,5volt in use. If you want to have 5000K then driving them at 16-17Volt is an option, their lifetime not that bad either then. A lot of lumen though and hot. See the link to a good article. Probably Solux types 5000K types got a thinner resistance wire to burn 5000K at 12volt.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/277326193_Qualimetric_Researches_of_Educational_Resources_Standardizing_of_Light_Conditions_in_the_Light_Booth
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
Still a full spectrum solution that I mentioned above. The least expensive solution I found is with a salvaged HP power supply for a small desktop HP computer. Secondary output 19 volt DC, 135 Watt, connected to a single Osram Cool Blue Decostar 51, 4500K, 50 watt, GU 5.3, 36 degr. like they used in the described article. Lamp consumes 104 Watt then and gives a measured 4758K full spectrum. Measured voltage stays at 19. Red line in the SpectrumViz display, green lines below it is of an older Just Normlight overhead fluorescents fixture which isn't bad either at 4745K but huge, and of another compact fluorescent, smoother spectrum but warmer. The Normlight is now obsolete here. The red dot line above is of the Osram Decostar run at 11 volt.
Some DIY skills required for a safe solution with the halogen lamp though, it is hot!
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For my art / print work area I'm currently leaning towards the Waveform Lighting / Northlux D50 bulbs:
https://store.waveformlighting.com/products/d50-5000k-a19-led-bulb-for-color-matching-iso3664-2000?src=pse
Just simple bulbs I can stick in a couple of cheap adjustable desk lamps (Ikea probably), one on each side. Price is right.
They're not dimmable so I'll just adjust the lamps.
I originally considered their linear fixture kits but just not as versatile to reposition, and cost a lot more.
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When we replaced the drop ceiling lighting we installed the k5000 2x4 Max Light LED's. Very affordable at under $75@
Yesterday I received my GrafiLite desk lamp as I need something to test with those ceiling lights are out. Well built and for the money well worth the $99.