Luminous Landscape Forum

The Art of Photography => The Coffee Corner => Topic started by: LesPalenik on February 22, 2022, 01:50:53 am

Title: Russian Invasion
Post by: LesPalenik on February 22, 2022, 01:50:53 am
Name?
-  Vladimir Putin.
Nationality?
-  Russian.
Occupation?
-  No. Just visiting.

Here is a commentary on the Russia-Ukraine war situation on youtube by Tom Nash, who is a financial analyst / youtuber, born in Russia.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7ssk3PXIEk

and here is a commentary by Deutsche Welle, German Public broadcast station:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-VX8O-yWKU
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: LesPalenik on February 24, 2022, 05:24:38 am
Below are the latest reports from dw.com (Deutsche Welle). They have good coverage about the Russian-Ukraine situation with more video reports on their youtube channel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9FlJKFWawM  1:23 min.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMIISXFw2Do  26 min.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: kers on February 24, 2022, 08:30:34 am
The Russians were so polite to not to ruin the the Olympic Games in China and to atack just directly after...

This war will change a lot to many people in Europe and the world.
Putin shows completely not trust worthy and very dangerous and NATO will react accordingly. For Russia the consequences will be enormous too.
Another war started by one idiot with too much power.
The people in Taiwan must also be afraid to at this moment, for China backs up Russia and 'understands their quest for safety'
as always; only losers, fear, destruction ... and already now we need decades to restore what we had.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: Peter McLennan on February 24, 2022, 12:36:36 pm
Russia is a third rate country ruled by a thug with an inferiority complex.
Trouble is, we're all going to be adversely affected by this asshole.

Best description of Russia I've read recently: "Upper Volta, with nuclear weapons".

Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: Robert Roaldi on February 24, 2022, 09:15:33 pm
Been seeing a lot of incredible things in politics in the last few years, but the spectacle of many players on the American right-wing voicing support for Putin is something else. I didn't see that one coming.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: Peter McLennan on February 24, 2022, 10:26:12 pm
Been seeing a lot of incredible things in politics in the last few years, but the spectacle of many players on the American right-wing voicing support for Putin is something else. I didn't see that one coming.

Who's doing that?
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: Robert Roaldi on February 25, 2022, 07:34:42 am
Who's doing that?

Sorry, that was a dumb generalized statement on my part. A friend sent me some examples from the social media lunatic fringe, luckily nobody important, but I made the mistake of reading some of it and got me worked up. I deleted my friend's email, didn't keep any links, not worth looking at was my conclusion.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: Robert Roaldi on February 25, 2022, 11:37:48 am
Saw this today by David Frum of he Atlanic https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/01/fox-news-gop-war-over-ukraine/621382/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/01/fox-news-gop-war-over-ukraine/621382/).

Some (expected) weirdness by Erik Prince and Steve Bannon https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/putin-ain-t-woke-steve-bannon-and-erik-prince-celebrate-russia-for-being-anti-lgbt/ar-AAUgpL3?li=BBoPRmx (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/putin-ain-t-woke-steve-bannon-and-erik-prince-celebrate-russia-for-being-anti-lgbt/ar-AAUgpL3?li=BBoPRmx). I guess what they say is true though, Putin is pretty much anti-woke, have to give them that.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: Peter McLennan on February 25, 2022, 12:01:06 pm
Anyone supporting Putin or his recent activities needs to be vilified to the fullest extent legally possible. He is the Darth Vader of real life.

Countering these cynical events is going to hurt us all and Putin is counting on that very fact to elude censure.  It's up to us to man up and accept these realities, even if it means (horror of horrors) "pain at the pump".
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: TechTalk on February 25, 2022, 05:47:37 pm
Who's doing that?

Putin's Right-Wing Shills - And why they matter.

https://morningshots.thebulwark.com/p/putins-right-wing-shills (https://morningshots.thebulwark.com/p/putins-right-wing-shills?utm_source=url)

These Conservatives Are Defending Russia In Ukraine Crisis—And Trump Leads The Way

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2022/02/23/these-conservatives-are-defending-russia-in-ukraine-crisis-and-trump-leads-the-way (https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2022/02/23/these-conservatives-are-defending-russia-in-ukraine-crisis-and-trump-leads-the-way/?sh=13ff33b378cf)
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: digitaldog on February 25, 2022, 08:05:24 pm
Does this sum it up?
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: LesPalenik on February 25, 2022, 09:13:23 pm
Meanwhile, Biden is saying - maybe we'll impose some sanctions, or maybe some others, but best we'll wait a month to see how it works.
   
Big contrast to Justin Trudeau, Boris Johnson, Jens Stoltenberg or Ursula von der Leyen who speak up much stronger for the sanctions and against Putin.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: TechTalk on February 26, 2022, 05:28:49 pm
Meanwhile, Biden is saying - maybe we'll impose some sanctions, or maybe some others, but best we'll wait a month to see how it works.

That may be what you're hearing, but it isn't what he's saying.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: digitaldog on February 26, 2022, 06:45:34 pm
Meanwhile, Biden is saying - maybe we'll impose some sanctions, or maybe some others, but best we'll wait a month to see how it works.
Old news:
https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/24/politics/joe-biden-ukraine-russia-sanctions/index.html
Biden imposes additional sanctions on Russia: 'Putin chose this war'
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: digitaldog on February 26, 2022, 07:07:07 pm
Newer news:
White House**and EU nations announce expulsion of 'selected Russian banks' from SWIFT. The White House, along with France, Germany, Italy, the United Kingdom and Canada, announced Saturday evening that they would expel certain Russian banks from SWIFT, the high-security network that connects thousands of financial institutions around the world, pledging to "collectively ensure that this war is a strategic failure for (Russian President Vladimir) Putin."

** that be Biden....
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: Chris Kern on February 26, 2022, 07:15:51 pm
For those of you in North America (and perhaps other locations) interested in continuously-updated broadcast news coverage:

Notwithstanding its bizarre obsession with reporting the decision by Roman Abromovich to turn over control of the Chelsea football club to a charitable trust, my impression is that the BBC generally is doing a better job than CNN in covering the invasion of Ukraine.

CNN may be first and fastest with the latest live video — I guess even the Beeb, with its considerable resources, can't field as many of its own crews and/or has fewer in-country partners than CNN — but the BBC reporters are producing prepared pieces which strike me as more intelligently drafted than what I'm seeing on CNN; the BBC presenters also seem better informed than their CNN counterparts.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: LesPalenik on February 26, 2022, 09:55:06 pm
That may be what you're hearing, but it isn't what he's saying.

He isn't saying it anymore, but that's what he said when he initially imposed sanctions on just two Russian banks. It's good to see that he now extended the sanctions to more meaningful and effective means. Also good to see Germany increasing their help from the initial shipment of 5,000 helmets to sending now Javelins, Stingers and RPGs.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: digitaldog on February 26, 2022, 11:06:26 pm
First:
Meanwhile, Biden is saying -maybe we'll impose some sanctions, or maybe some others, but best we'll wait a month to see how it works.
2nd:
He isn't saying it anymore, but that's what he said when he initially imposed sanctions on just two Russian banks.
Can you see the confusion from your readers based on the highlighted language?
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: LesPalenik on February 27, 2022, 12:15:30 am
First: 2nd:Can you see the confusion from your readers based on the highlighted language?

No.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: TechTalk on February 27, 2022, 02:09:04 am
Also good to see Germany increasing their help from the initial shipment of 5,000 helmets to sending now Javelins, Stingers and RPGs.

Biden authorizes $350 million more in defense aid for Ukraine in response to Russian invasion

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/02/26/biden-ukraine-military-aid-package (https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:raCO5QW4oXYJ:https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/02/26/biden-ukraine-military-aid-package/+&cd=11&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)

President Biden authorized a $350 million defense aid package for Ukraine, the White House announced late Friday, as Washington rushes to send more assistance to the pro-Western government.

The package includes anti-armor missiles, including antitank Javelin missiles; small arms; body armor; and various other munitions “in support of Ukraine’s front-line defenders who are facing down Russia’s brutal attack,” a senior defense official told reporters Saturday. The Biden administration intends to provide support as long as there is a viable Ukrainian government fighting off Russian forces, The Washington Post previously reported.

Secretary of State Antony Blinken said in a Saturday statement that it was the third drawdown of money from the United States to Ukraine in the past year, totaling more than $1 billion. The secretary of state described the third drawdown as “unprecedented.”...

...The United States had already provided about $650 million in defense aid to Ukraine in the past year, including Javelin missiles that were used to destroy Russian tanks this past week, according to the Ukrainian government. The United States had drawn from American weapons stocks last fall and again in December.

On Friday, the White House asked Congress to approve $6.4 billion in new emergency aid for Ukraine, hoping to boost humanitarian assistance to the war-torn country and shore up other allies in the region against any further Russian aggression. Lawmakers are expected to formally debate the proposal when they return to Washington next week....

...The United States has been joined by several other nations that have pledged to give equipment and funding to the Ukrainian military. The Netherlands is planning to supply 200 Stinger air defense rockets, while Belgium has pledged 3,800 tons of fuel and 2,000 machine guns. Countries such as France and Canada have also given military equipment in support of Ukraine against the Russian forces.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: LesPalenik on February 27, 2022, 06:56:16 am
I just finished watching the special session of German Bundestag, and speeches by Olaf Scholz and Friedrich Merz. Great speeches, and a 180-degree reversal from the previous pussy footing and trying to appease the Russia. Olaf Scholz attacked sharply Putin, and Merz called him a war criminal and his close circle of corrupt politicians and oligarchs as useful idiots.

They will now raise their defense budget to 2% of GDP, and send to Ukraine 1,000 anti-tank weapons and 500 surface-to-air missiles from German military stocks to Ukraine as soon as possible.
 
Here is the article in German in latest Spiegel issue (use Google for translation) and below a summary of the session in English at dw.com.
https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/ukraine-versus-russland-olaf-scholz-gibt-regierungserklaerung-ab-und-verurteilt-wladimir-putin-scharf-a-bfd7dee4-c89e-4832-8faa-1e4d18deb17b
https://www.dw.com/en/germanys-reversal-on-ukraine-weapons-policy-response-to-putins-aggression/a-60932652

and here the full proceedings from the Bundestag session (translated into English). The video is over 1 hour long, but well worth watching. It is a historical speech (actually two speeches) and a refreshing signal about German awakening and a new chapter in their new mission to protect and advance Europe.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_DMcayCtnA
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: digitaldog on February 27, 2022, 09:19:40 am
No.
As I expected.
"Think twice before you speak, because your words and influence will plant the seed of either success or failure in the mind of another." - Napoleon
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 27, 2022, 02:26:39 pm
Putin's Right-Wing Shills - And why they matter.

https://morningshots.thebulwark.com/p/putins-right-wing-shills (https://morningshots.thebulwark.com/p/putins-right-wing-shills?utm_source=url)

These Conservatives Are Defending Russia In Ukraine Crisis—And Trump Leads The Way

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2022/02/23/these-conservatives-are-defending-russia-in-ukraine-crisis-and-trump-leads-the-way (https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2022/02/23/these-conservatives-are-defending-russia-in-ukraine-crisis-and-trump-leads-the-way/?sh=13ff33b378cf)

Man, you're are easy to hook line and sinker aren't you. 

There are two types of people, those who think there are two types of people and everyone else.  You are obviously part of the former group. 

Yes, Putin is a genius, albeit an evil genius.  You can say so and certainly disagree with everything he is doing, but better to give the devil his due then to write him off as a lunatic.  Lunatics usually destroy themselves, eventually; devils need to be destroyed, so best not to write one off by not affirming his intelligence.  Just because one gives Putin the respect necessarily to defeat him does not make him pro-Putin. 

However, like I said, if you are the kind of person who only see two types of people in this instance, you will make the mistake of labeling anyone who does not follow the party line to a tie as being pro-Putin.   
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 27, 2022, 02:32:29 pm
I think the greater ramifications of this will be severe. 

Ukraine gave up its (3rd largest in the world) nuclear arsenal in 1994 due to the promise that the West would come to its aid if Russia ever assaulted them.  Likewise, many smaller countries with the capabilities to develop their own arsenal did not do so based on the same promise.  We broke that promise and are doing nothing in Ukraine. 

How can we (the West) now be trusted? 

We can't, or at least to many smaller nations. 

I hope it is not the case, but I would suspect Taiwan, South Korea and Japan to all start development on their own nuclear arsenals.  You can probably add half the Middle East to the list too. 

The clock is now ticking a little closer to midnight. 
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: TechTalk on February 27, 2022, 02:36:15 pm
Man, you're are easy to hook line and sinker aren't you. 

There are two types of people, those who think there are two types of people and everyone else.  You are obviously part of the former group. 

Whatever makes you happy.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: LesPalenik on February 27, 2022, 02:42:44 pm
Ukraine gave up its (3rd largest in the world) nuclear arsenal in 1994 due to the promise that the West would come to its aid if Russia ever assaulted them.  Likewise, many smaller countries with the capabilities to develop their own arsenal did not do so based on the same promise.  We broke that promise and are doing nothing in Ukraine. 

Yes, the Munich Conference failed twice. First in 1938, when the West sacrificed Czechoslovakia and now in 2022 they sacrificed Ukraine. At least, now the NATO nations have recognized much quicker their mistake and are now trying to correct it.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: digitaldog on February 27, 2022, 02:53:47 pm
Whatever makes you happy.
Ignorance is bliss or so we're told by the ignorant.
Ukraine gave up its (3rd largest in the world) nuclear arsenal in 1994 due to the promise that the West would come to its aid if Russia ever assaulted them. 
And the west has (https://www.pressherald.com/2022/02/26/u-s-announces-350-million-in-additional-military-aid-to-ukraine/) come to its aid.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: Peter McLennan on February 27, 2022, 05:54:14 pm
Man, you're are easy to hook line and sinker aren't you. 

Always quick with the vitriol and personal insults.  Excellent work, Joe. Very helpful.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: LesPalenik on February 27, 2022, 07:05:42 pm
Russia demands that Google restores access to its media YouTube channels in Ukraine. Apparently they need to watch youtube tutorials how to fix broken tanks.

Quote
MOSCOW, Feb 27 (Reuters) - Russia's state communications regulator on Sunday said it had written to Alphabet Inc's (GOOGL.O) Google and demanded that access to Russian media's YouTube channels be restored on Ukrainian territory.

The regulator, Roskomnadzor, said it wanted all restrictions imposed on the Russian-language YouTube channels of media outlets RBC, TV Zvezda and Sputnik to be removed.

Moscow on Friday said it was partially limiting access to Meta Platforms Inc's (FB.O) Facebook, accusing it of "censoring" Russian media.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-demands-google-restore-access-its-media-youtube-channels-ukraine-2022-02-27/
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: Robert Roaldi on February 27, 2022, 09:48:56 pm
Russia demands that Google restores access to its media YouTube channels in Ukraine. Apparently they need to watch youtube tutorials how to fix broken tanks.
...

Funny.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: BobShaw on February 27, 2022, 09:56:15 pm
Russia is a third rate country ruled by a thug with an inferiority complex.
Trouble is, we're all going to be adversely affected by this asshole.

Best description of Russia I've read recently: "Upper Volta, with nuclear weapons".

Tell us what went wrong on your last trip to Russia.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: LesPalenik on February 27, 2022, 10:57:14 pm
Tell us what went wrong on your last trip to Russia.

Last time (and it was also the first time) when I applied for visa to the former USSR, was in mid sixties. They didn't give me visa and I didn't try again.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: LesPalenik on February 28, 2022, 04:14:29 am
World's largest cargo plane An-225 Mriya owned by Ukraine was destroyed during the Russian invasion.

Quote
There was only one example of this giant: During a Russian attack on an airport near Kyiv, the largest cargo plane ever built burned down. The damage is in the billions.

According to Ukrainian sources on Sunday, the world's heaviest cargo plane, the Antonov An-225 Mriya, was destroyed or at least badly damaged in the fighting near Kyiv. "Russian invaders" had the "flagship" of Ukrainian aviation on their conscience, the armaments company Ukroboronprom announced on Sunday. The machine was parked at the embattled Hostomel airfield northwest of Kyiv. A photo by the US satellite operator Maxar shows a partially destroyed hangar on the airport site.

The transport aircraft was developed in Soviet times and built by the aircraft manufacturer O. K. Antonov in Kyiv; The first flight was on December 21, 1988. There is only one example of the giant that can carry a maximum payload of 250 tons with its six engines. Total weight at the start then: 640 tons. The XXL plane is 84 meters long and has a wingspan of 88.40 meters. For comparison: An Airbus A 380, the largest passenger aircraft in the world, measures 72.70 meters in length and takes off with a total weight of 569 tons.

(https://cdn.prod.www.spiegel.de/images/0b93100e-d10b-4791-b4dc-86464d28d96d_w948_r2.638522427440633_fpx54.54_fpy49.96.jpg)

https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/krieg-in-der-ukraine-weltgroesstes-frachtflugzeug-an-225-mriya-zerstoert-a-fa02a3e1-6559-4013-9c45-94b6578d93fc
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: Robert Roaldi on February 28, 2022, 07:06:01 am
...
Ukraine gave up its (3rd largest in the world) nuclear arsenal in 1994 due to the promise that the West would come to its aid if Russia ever assaulted them.  Likewise, many smaller countries with the capabilities to develop their own arsenal did not do so based on the same promise.  We broke that promise and are doing nothing in Ukraine. 

How can we (the West) now be trusted? 

We can't, or at least to many smaller nations. 

...

I know as much about foreign policy as I do about women but this sounds about right to me. It's too bad the world just stood around after the Soviet Union imploded and let Russia be taken over by every crook with a beef instead of helping them come out of that hell. Ironic because there were so many other places into which we stuck our collective noses, so it's not as if we were shy about meddling in other countries.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: pschefz on February 28, 2022, 05:19:12 pm
Who's doing that?
other then the trump himself?
or the clips (no need to censor) from tucker Carlson's latest scary tale hour they showed on Russian state TV to support the invasion?
or the neonazi convention going on in Florida?
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: JoeKitchen on March 01, 2022, 11:15:49 am
I know as much about foreign policy as I do about women but this sounds about right to me. It's too bad the world just stood around after the Soviet Union imploded and let Russia be taken over by every crook with a beef instead of helping them come out of that hell. Ironic because there were so many other places into which we stuck our collective noses, so it's not as if we were shy about meddling in other countries.

I read a very interesting piece first looking at the sudden and not at all anticipated loss, by Germans, for Germany in WW1 followed by the severe punishments at the Versaille treaty.  While the world was partying during the roaring 20s, Germany suffered and that lead to Hitler coming to power with his promises to restore the Third Reich.  Many Germans may have disagreed with the Nazi policies, but the promise of returned pride he promised was too much to ignore.  Similarly, it then talked about the fall of the USSR, which was also not foreseen by most in Russia.  Although we did nothing to cause it, the collapse of an economic system that concentrates all power in only a few at the top of government (what communism does), only lead to the same situation Germany was in during the 1920s.  Putin is also promising to restore the old empire, and the pride that would come with it. 

Of course their are differences; the Russians on the streets of Moscow do not appear to be as gung-ho about supporting Putin, but when has that stopped a dictator. 

Years ago I watched an interview with Tim O'Brien, an author and Vietnam vet, and I can distinctly remember hm talking about how everyone knew the war was wrong.  However, not to fight and to abandon your fellow soldiers would take more courage then what most men have. 

So, now that we gave up all of our deterrents when they actually could have done something and Putin is in Ukraine, this will not stop until Putin decides to stop or when he is stopped. 

If Ukraine actually gets acceptance into the EU, I can only imagine that would elevate the situation and Europe may be looking at war again. 

Edit
I hope it is just that fact that war in Europe, in my lifetime, has never happened until now and that is why I am overly concerned.  Hopefully it will just fizzle out without going beyond Ukraine.  History though
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: digitaldog on March 01, 2022, 12:53:52 pm
Of course their are differences; the Russians on the streets of Moscow do not appear to be as gung-ho about supporting Putin, but when has that stopped a dictator. 

Of course:
Those Who Forget Their History Are Condemned to Repeat It (or post about it):
https://www.history.com/news/5-famous-coups
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_coups_and_coup_attempts
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: BobShaw on March 01, 2022, 04:34:24 pm
Of course:
Those Who Forget Their History Are Condemned to Repeat It (or post about it):
...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_coups_and_coup_attempts

A selectively written list.
>1893, Kingdom of Hawai'i: Sanford Dole and American plantation owners overthrew the independent Kingdom of Hawaiʻi led by Queen Liliʻuokalani

What, no mention of the US military?
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: LesPalenik on March 02, 2022, 01:11:01 am
Captured Russian soldiers sending messages home:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuaMpxtzo_0
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: Robert Roaldi on March 03, 2022, 11:01:37 am
I see from various online reports that Trump is doubling down on his admiration for Putin's "strong" leadership.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: kers on March 03, 2022, 11:06:00 am
I see from various online reports that Trump is doubling down on his admiration for Putin's "strong" leadership.
Only 'strong' in the sense of 'many tanks and (cluster) grenades...'
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: Peter McLennan on March 03, 2022, 12:33:44 pm
I found this Ukraine background video particularly informing:

https://youtu.be/If61baWF4GE

26 min.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: Manoli on March 03, 2022, 09:05:50 pm
For a historical perspective, suggest a remarkably prescient article by Henry Kissinger published in the WP, in March 2014.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/henry-kissinger-to-settle-the-ukraine-crisis-start-at-the-end/2014/03/05/46dad868-a496-11e3-8466-d34c451760b9_story.html

Quote
"A wise U.S. policy toward Ukraine would seek a way for the two parts of the country to cooperate with each other. We should seek reconciliation, not the domination of a faction" and was adamant that "Ukraine should not join NATO", and further advised Russia that it "would not be able to impose a military solution without isolating itself" and that "a policy of military impositions would produce another Cold War"

8 years later, here we are.



Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: Manoli on March 03, 2022, 09:12:22 pm
A twitter post by Garry Kasparov, the Russian chess grandmaster, from a few hours ago.

Quote
We are witnessing, literally watching live, Putin commit genocide on an industrial scale in Ukraine while the most powerful military alliance in history stands aside. It's impossible not to be emotional, but let us also be rational and focus our rage on the facts. 1/13

Putin once again told Macron to go to hell, no surprise. NATO/EU has already told Putin they won't touch his forces, so why should he listen? Russia is lifting target limitations and the death toll is rising every hour and lack of water & electricity is critical. 2/13

No treaty forbids NATO nations from fighting to defend in Ukraine. It's a choice based on the risk of Putin going nuclear, many say. That arming Ukrainians is an acceptable risk of WWIII & the citizenship of the pilot or soldier changes Putin's nuclear calculus, or NATO's. 3/13

If they care so much about the fine print and think Putin does too, ask Zelensky to issue Ukrainian passports to any volunteer to fly in combat. Sell jets to Ukraine for €1 each and paint UKR flags on them. Do you think Putin will care? Is it worth the lives lost? 4/13

This is already World War III. Putin started it long ago & Ukraine is only the current front. He will escalate anyway, and it's even more likely if he succeeds in destroying Ukraine because you have again convinced him you won't stop him even though you could. 5/13

Biden & others insist NATO would retaliate should Putin attack Baltic members. Watching Ukraine, I am not sure of that at all, and Putin won't be either. If the calculation is about nuclear risk, it's no different over Estonia than Ukraine. Don't say "Putin would never". 6/13

If this sounds familiar, it's the same argument from 2014, when Putin invaded E Ukraine and annexed Crimea. It was too risky to stop him, I was told, as I pleaded for intervention and warned he would never stop there. Here we are, with bombs raining down. 7/13

Risk and costs are higher now because the "reasonable" people in the West always choose lower risk today to guarantee higher risk tomorrow. Clearing the UKR skies after a warning period is risky. Letting Putin destroy Ukraine is riskier, & a human and moral disaster. 8/13

There is no waiting this out. This isn't chess; there's no draw, no stalemate. Either Putin destroys Ukraine and eventually hits NATO with an even greater catastrophe, or Putin falls in Russia. He cannot be stopped with weakness. 9/13

The corridors to get weapons, food, and medicine in and refugees out are narrowing and can be closed. Putin can bomb the trains, close the borders with NATO nations. The odds of Russian forces hitting a NATO asset are increasing, and then what? Still watching? 10/13

If your answer is no, that if a wing of a RU jet crosses Polish airspace, of course NATO will engage immediately, ask why thousands of Ukrainians civilians dying first matters less than a treaty, and what that says to Putin. That you're honorable, or a fool? We know. 11/13

As I said in 2014 and a fateful week ago, the price of stopping a dictator always goes up. What would have been enough to stop Putin 8 years or 6 months or 2 weeks ago is not enough today, and the price will rise again tomorrow. Fight. Find a way. 12/13

Putin vows to exterminate Ukrainians while we watch. Ukraine did nothing wrong but try to join the democratic world that is now witnessing crimes against humanity in real time. Not unable. Unwilling. #CloseTheSky 13/13
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: BernardLanguillier on March 04, 2022, 01:41:35 am
As much as I feel sorry for the people of Ukraine, I also feel sorry for the citizens of Russia.

I believe that a majority of them see very clearly what is going on and share the pain of their brothers and sisters in Ukraine.

Some certainly believe in the propaganda of Putine, just like some people believed in the propaganda of Trump, but it seems to be a minority. We see where autocratic populist leaders can take a large country in 2022, if proof was still needed...

Regards,
Bernard

Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: Peter McLennan on March 04, 2022, 02:56:58 pm
As much as I feel sorry for the people of Ukraine, I also feel sorry for the citizens of Russia.
I believe that a majority of them see very clearly what is going on and share the pain of their brothers and sisters in Ukraine.

An admirable sentiment, but naieve, Bernard.  Most Russians know nothing of what's going on. They're intentionally insulated by Putin from all western media, Internet included.

They're prohibited from even mentioning the "Special Military Operation, let alone protesting it.

Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: BernardLanguillier on March 04, 2022, 04:21:15 pm
An admirable sentiment, but naieve, Bernard.  Most Russians know nothing of what's going on. They're intentionally insulated by Putin from all western media, Internet included.

They're prohibited from even mentioning the "Special Military Operation, let alone protesting it.

I am aware that accessing internet from Russia is more and more challenging but neutral sites like LL are not banned yet. I think it’s important to convey this message as often as possible.

This message can also be conveyed from Russians living outside Russia to their relatives.

The opposition to the invasion of Ukraine isn’t the least bit anti-Russian, it’s anti Putine.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: Chris Kern on March 04, 2022, 07:01:49 pm
An admirable sentiment, but naieve, Bernard.  Most Russians know nothing of what's going on. They're intentionally insulated by Putin from all western media, Internet included.

Probably not.

Based on what I'm hearing from my former colleagues at the Voice of America, while the Russian government may have attempted to block access by the country's population to VOA, as well as to the BBC, Deutsche Welle, Radio Liberty, and other international news organizations, the news is still managing to get through.

VOA and its counterparts in other countries have over the years developed technical mechanisms for circumventing the censorship efforts of authoritarian governments.  Admittedly, these are only partially effective.  They depend to a significant extent on the ability of members of the audience to employ the circumvention techniques, which varies considerably according to the technical savvy of segments of the population.  But I suspect most people in Russia who really want to know what is actually going on are able to find out.

Quote
Shortly after VOA Russian set a one-day traffic record across all platforms on February 24, Russian regulators announced their intention to block VOA and other independent news outlets. As a result, not only did the use of circumvention tools suddenly soar in Russia in recent days, but golosameriki.com set another one-day site traffic record on March 3.

— VOA press release, March 2

I wouldn't underestimate the capacity of Russians to see through their government's propaganda.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: Peter McLennan on March 04, 2022, 07:37:55 pm
I wouldn't underestimate the capacity of Russians to see through their government's propaganda.

I hope you're right.

CBC News has just bailed on reporting from Russia.

The CBC has joined the BBC in saying it will temporarily suspend all its reporting from the ground in Russia after Russian President Vladimir Putin signed a bill introducing a prison sentence of up to 15 years for spreading information that goes against the Russian government's position on the war in Ukraine.

In an online statement, CBC/Radio-Canada said it is "very concerned about new legislation passed in Russia, which appears to criminalize independent reporting on the current situation in Ukraine and Russia."
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: LesPalenik on March 05, 2022, 04:04:36 am
Probably not.

Based on what I'm hearing from my former colleagues at the Voice of America, while the Russian government may have attempted to block access by the country's population to VOA, as well as to the BBC, Deutsche Welle, Radio Liberty, and other international news organizations, the news is still managing to get through.

VOA and its counterparts in other countries have over the years developed technical mechanisms for circumventing the censorship efforts of authoritarian governments.  Admittedly, these are only partially effective.  They depend to a significant extent on the ability of members of the audience to employ the circumvention techniques, which varies considerably according to the technical savvy of segments of the population.  But I suspect most people in Russia who really want to know what is actually going on are able to find out. I wouldn't underestimate the capacity of Russians to see through their government's propaganda.

Not really! Although some Russian citizens are quite knowledgeable as to what's happening in Russia and in the rest of the world, a large part of the population has been for years manipulated by the Russian propaganda and is completely clueless of the actual situation. "Batushka Putin is good and America is bad".

An example of this is shown in the video below.

Quote
A 25-year old girl, called Oleksandra from Kharkiv spoke to BBC how she called her mother who lives in Moscow and the mother didn't believe her that Russian army is bombarding Kharkiv. Both parents told Alexandra that Russian army would never target civilians and that it's the Ukrainians who are killing their own people. Oleksandra says her mother just repeats the narratives of what she hears on Russian state TV channels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZA3AuoFTIwg

After a few of my own conversations with some Russians I am not surprised at all by the above example. They blindly believe what they hear on TV.

As of yesterday, Russia blocked TV Rain, its last independent TV channel, and Echo of Moscow aired its last broadcast. The Internet portal "Meduza", as well as the Sibirian website "Tayga Info" were closed, too. These were news agencies that described Putin's war against Ukraine as such and did not speak of a "special military operation" as prescribed by the official terminology.

Quote
Independent journalism is effectively dead. The blocked Internet television channel TV Doschd (TV Rain) and the news portal »Znak« have stopped working, the risk for the employees is too high. The Novaya Gazeta, critical of the Kremlin, began to delete articles that spoke of war. Foreign media such as the BBC and CNN stopped reporting from the country to protect their journalists.

The background is the law on "public dissemination of intentionally false information about the use of the armed forces of the Russian Federation". On Friday, both chambers of parliament rushed through the amendments to the law without discussion, and they came into force that same evening with Putin's signature.

This effectively bans reporting on Russia's war against Ukraine. Any information that does not correspond to the Kremlin's view is now considered "fake." Those who do not comply face high fines, "corrective labor" or up to 15 years in prison, depending on the sentence. The law affects "all citizens, not just those of Russia," as the chairman of the Duma committee on information policy, Alexander Chinstejn, emphasized.

Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: LesPalenik on March 05, 2022, 04:20:14 am
Not only Russians, also some Serbians believe Russian propaganda. According to German Spiegel, people in Belgrade are taking to the streets and cheering on Putin's campaign.

Quote
In the Serbian capital of Belgrade, around a thousand pro-Russian demonstrators took to the streets to express their support for Russia's invasion of Ukraine. With Russian flags and pictures of Kremlin chief Vladimir Putin, the demonstrators marched through the city center on Friday evening. Many chanted anti-NATO slogans. "Ukraine is currently being liberated from neo-Nazis," 22-year-old demonstrator Nikola Babic told the AFP news agency. "The Russians – our brothers – liberate the country and hopefully the world."

While protests against the Russian invasion of Ukraine are taking place in many other major European cities, many Serbs are supporting Russian President Putin. A number of Serbian news agencies have defended his attack on the neighboring country in recent days. In the UN General Assembly, Serbia voted in favor of a resolution condemning Russia's attack on Ukraine. However, the country has not joined the Western sanctions against Russia. In terms of energy policy, Serbia is heavily dependent on Russia.

https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/russlands-krieg-in-der-ukraine-putin-wird-in-belgrad-gefeiert-a-92e78e78-ecb2-49e8-ad6c-2d2d672ae43b
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: Manoli on March 05, 2022, 06:33:58 am
BBC
Russia oligarchs: The mega-rich men facing global sanctions (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-60593022?xtor=AL-72-%5Bpartner%5D-%5Bbbc.news.twitter%5D-%5Bheadline%5D-%5Bnews%5D-%5Bbizdev%5D-%5Bisapi%5D&at_custom3=%40BBCWorld&at_campaign=64&at_custom4=7E80F762-9C44-11EC-8382-63BE4744363C&at_custom1=%5Bpost+type%5D&at_custom2=twitter&at_medium=custom7)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51919545074_d9332e1228.jpg)


Edit:
Number of companies or individuals sanctioned for links to Putin (so far):

🇪🇺 EU 446
🇨🇭 Switzerland 351
🇺🇸 USA 148
🇬🇧 UK 24 (with 30 days to 18 months notice)
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: LesPalenik on March 06, 2022, 03:01:00 am
Elon Musk talks with Zelenskyy

6 min. long video by Dave Lee about Starlink over Ukraine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYcYk7Rh3Wo
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: dreed on March 06, 2022, 09:18:34 am
If you want to see what will happen to the cities in Ukraine, look for pictures of Grozny - google for:

grozny chechen war

and look at the images of civilian buildings.

Putin is doing to Ukraine what he did back in the 1990s to Chechnya.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: PeterAit on March 06, 2022, 11:19:11 am
Perhaps the wackiest conspiracy theory yet: "Q-Anon conspiracy theorists are claiming that former President Donald Trump is aiding Russian President Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine to destroy secret bioweapons labs run by Dr. Anthony Fauci."

https://www.newsweek.com/qanon-theory-says-trump-putin-working-together-destroy-fauci-labs-1685105
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: kers on March 06, 2022, 11:32:11 am
Perhaps the wackiest conspiracy theory yet: "Q-Anon conspiracy theorists are claiming that former President Donald Trump is aiding Russian President Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine to destroy secret bioweapons labs run by Dr. Anthony Fauci."

https://www.newsweek.com/qanon-theory-says-trump-putin-working-together-destroy-fauci-labs-1685105

...and Hunter Biden... (!) (!)
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: BernardLanguillier on March 06, 2022, 10:11:54 pm
Not only Russians, also some Serbians believe Russian propaganda. According to German Spiegel, people in Belgrade are taking to the streets and cheering on Putin's campaign.

https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/russlands-krieg-in-der-ukraine-putin-wird-in-belgrad-gefeiert-a-92e78e78-ecb2-49e8-ad6c-2d2d672ae43b

Propaganda works, no doubt. 25% of the US voters appear to be believing the Trump propaganda and the bubble they isolated themselves in in terms of media access and community togetherness (only talk with other like minded people) is probably pretty similar to what many Russians are suffering from.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: LesPalenik on March 07, 2022, 05:34:02 am
Propaganda works, no doubt. 25% of the US voters appear to be believing the Trump propaganda and the bubble they isolated themselves in in terms of media access and community togetherness (only talk with other like minded people) is probably pretty similar to what many Russians are suffering from.

Cheers,
Bernard

Russia made the propaganda and population control a science. There was an interview on CNN with the Chief Ukrainian rabbi who spent also couple of years in Soviet Union. He describes that the most frightening thing for living in such a totalitarian regime is that people are not only afraid to talk, but it gets to such an extreme that they are afraid to think - because when you think, you'll start talking (pretty much as in Orwell's 1984). At 4:45 min in the below video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KME1X1iafY
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: digitaldog on March 07, 2022, 03:03:52 pm
Russia made the propaganda and population control a science.
Not just Russia:
https://www.msnbc.com/the-reidout/reidout-blog/russias-attacks-truth-are-frighteningly-familiar-americans-rcna18960
Quote
Russia's totalitarian attacks on truth should look familiar to Americans
As the Kremlin cracks down on truth in Russia, Americans need to take note of the ways our concept of truth is under assault as well.
Watching Russia’s attempts to create an alternate reality is deeply worrying. But Americans have heard our own officials praise “alternative facts” in the past.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: Frans Waterlander on March 08, 2022, 06:00:19 pm
Here's another concept of truth: gas is now $4.40 a gallon at the discount pump in Washington State. At the same place it was $3.55 a gallon on February 6. Way to go Biden!
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: digitaldog on March 08, 2022, 06:07:27 pm
Here's another concept of truth: gas is now $4.40 a gallon at the discount pump in Washington State. At the same place, it was $3.55 a gallon on February 6. Way to go Biden!
Obviously a comment from someone who hasn't a bloody clue about the pricing of a global product. Or truth!
Proof for Franz to ignore, then running away for a few weeks only to return to poop on yet another carpet.  :P
Quote
Why are gas prices rising?
There are a few factors contributing to the increase, but the main reasons are the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the rise of inflation.
Quote
Patrick De Haan, head of petroleum analysis at GasBuddy, told USA TODAY last week that the sanctions put on Russia by the U.S. and European Union severely hindered Russia's ability to sell crude oil, one of the biggest determiners for gas prices. Because the country is one of the biggest energy suppliers, crude oil prices have dramatically risen.
https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/9417091002
No mention of Biden being the sole cause naturally.
Mention of THIS topic: Russian invasion Franzy!
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: Peter McLennan on March 08, 2022, 07:53:27 pm
Here's another concept of truth: gas is now $4.40 a gallon at the discount pump in Washington State. At the same place it was $3.55 a gallon on February 6. Way to go Biden!

More idiocy from He Who Craps on Carpets.

Noticed the global price of oil lately?

Blaming Biden for the price at the pump is beyond idiocy.  It's intentional ignorance.

I guess that's no worse than Alan's recreational ignorance. 

Speaking of which.... what happened to Alan?  Did we finally scare off the last of the trumpies?

Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: digitaldog on March 08, 2022, 08:02:21 pm
More idiocy from He Who Craps on Carpets.
Blaming Biden for the price at the pump is beyond idiocy.  It's intentional ignorance.
His posting history (now in this thread but so many others) shows consistency in this respect.
Quote
Speaking of which.... what happened to Alan?  Did we finally scare off the last of the trumpies?
Don't jinx the absence of that posting intentional ignorance.  ;)
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: LesPalenik on March 08, 2022, 08:27:24 pm
Here's another concept of truth: gas is now $4.40 a gallon at the discount pump in Washington State. At the same place it was $3.55 a gallon on February 6. Way to go Biden!

That's true, but to compensate, The Russian Store website dropped the sale price of their Nesting Dolls sets by 30%.

Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: digitaldog on March 08, 2022, 10:07:56 pm
Way, way over Franz head* but for others, not so much:

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/record-high-gas-prices-are-not-joe-biden-s-fault-n1291238
Quote
In the race to politically exploit the high cost of gas, Republicans are banking on voters not caring that they’re lying through their teeth about how much of this is Biden’s fault. The president does not, as they would have you believe, have a dial in the Oval Office that he uses to set gas prices.

Crude oil was trading around $126 per barrel Tuesday, 58 percent higher than the roughly $80 per barrel it was at before Russia’s aggression against Ukraine roiled the market. That price, which makes up over half the total cost per gallon of gas, is based on *global demand — something Biden has even less control over than how much your local Exxon station charges.

The biggest issue isn’t the domestic supply of oil or the taxes being paid. It’s how much Americans love and expect cheap gas, a problem the U.S. has only encouraged as an automobile-centric society. In the rural areas and suburbs where the GOP is already poised to do well, there are no mass transit options to replace the family car, leaving people there to spend more of their paycheck on gas than urban dwellers and meaning they are more ready to find someone to blame.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: Frans Waterlander on March 09, 2022, 03:08:30 pm
OMG, MSNBC says high gasoline prices are not Joe Biden's fault. Then it must be true! Cancelling the XL pipeline, cancelling drilling permits on federal land, high inflation because of spending frenzies, encouraging Putin by a) showing weakness and major screw-ups with the exit from Afghanistan and b) not putting pressure on Putin with actual sanctions way before he invaded Ukraine have nothing to do with Biden and high gas prices. Silly me!

Yesterday I paid $4.40 a gallon, today I filled up the other car and paid $4.50 a gallon at the same outlet. Let's go, Brandon!
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: LesPalenik on March 09, 2022, 03:40:55 pm
OMG, MSNBC says high gasoline prices are not Joe Biden's fault. Then it must be true! Cancelling the XL pipeline, cancelling drilling permits on federal land, high inflation because of spending frenzies, encouraging Putin by a) showing weakness and major screw-ups with the exit from Afghanistan and b) not putting pressure on Putin with actual sanctions way before he invaded Ukraine have nothing to do with Biden and high gas prices. Silly me!

Yesterday I paid $4.40 a gallon, today I filled up the other car and paid $4.50 a gallon at the same outlet. Let's go, Brandon!

I agree with the closing of the XL pipeline and major Afghanistan screw-up. Rushing to cancel the pipeline on the first day of his presidency shows a poor judgment and a small and vindictive mind. The sudden and chaotic exit from Afghanistan without consulting and coordinating with other coalition partners was even more stupid.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: digitaldog on March 09, 2022, 03:43:58 pm
Again, this is way over Franz's level of understanding, pay grade, and photographic abilities but it is factual nonetheless:

If the US doesn't get much oil from Russia, why are gas prices skyrocketing?
QUESTION:

If the U.S. only imports a small fraction of crude oil from Russia, why are U.S. gas prices rising?
SOURCES:

    The US Energy Information Administration
    Patrick DeHaan from Gas Buddy
    Sasha Mackler from the Bipartisan Policy Center

ANSWER:

The price of oil is set at a global level. Any supply disruption or potential disruption will affect gas prices all over the world. 

Franz is living on another world where everything going wrong is due to Biden (or Obama etc).
It is impossible to puncture the unreality bubble surrounding a fact denier. We can only attempt to sway those with open minds. Meaning nearly everyone here except Franzy!
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: digitaldog on March 09, 2022, 04:08:47 pm
OMG, MSNBC says high gasoline prices are not Joe Biden's fault. Then it must be true!
OMG, Franz who can't manage to take a photograph says something here and everyone but Franz knows, it's not true.
Quote
Yesterday I paid $4.40 a gallon, today I filled up the other car and paid $4.50 a gallon at the same outlet.
Be useful if you found a way to photograph the gas pump to prove your point, but of course, you cannot.  ;D
Quote
Silly me!
Yes! On an internet forum for photography, you can be anything you want. It’s strange that you choose to be silly, stupid, and unable to provide evidence of ever creating a photo.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: digitaldog on March 09, 2022, 04:24:06 pm
Fantasy from another planet:
OMG, MSNBC says high gasoline prices are not Joe Biden's fault.
Let's go, Brandon!

Fact:
The price of oil is set at a global level. Any supply disruption or potential disruption will affect gas prices all over the world. 

Not MSNBC, but rather those ultra liberals at Goldman Sachs:

Russia's invasion of Ukraine and the West's crackdown on Moscow has left the world economy exposed to an epic energy shock.
"The uncertainty on how this conflict and oil shortages will be resolved is unprecedented," Goldman Sachs strategists wrote in a note to clients.
"Given Russia's key role in global energy supply, the global economy could soon be faced with one of the largest energy supply shocks ever," Goldman Sachs said in the Monday night report, adding that the scale of the shock is "potentially enormous."

Russian Invasion! "Let's go, Putin" Franz?
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: BobShaw on March 09, 2022, 04:50:18 pm
Here's another concept of truth: gas is now $4.40 a gallon at the discount pump in Washington State. At the same place it was $3.55 a gallon on February 6. Way to go Biden!
That is about half of what we pay in Australia. I expect in Europe it is way higher.
The US is the world's largest producer of oil so who profits from rising oil prices?
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: Rhossydd on March 09, 2022, 05:44:05 pm
I expect in Europe it is way higher.
The UK price is current around £1.55/L roughly $7.70 for a US gallon, but prices are expected to hit £2/L in the not too distant future.

So another example of insular Yanks not having a clue what's happening in the rest of the globe.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: digitaldog on March 09, 2022, 06:50:13 pm
So another example of insular Yanks not having a clue what's happening in the rest of the globe.
Or with a camera.  :D
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: Peter McLennan on March 09, 2022, 08:15:26 pm
That is about half of what we pay in Australia.

Exactly. Quit whining, America.  I've been paying at or about $5 a USG here in Western Canada for the last few years.  Get over it.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: Frans Waterlander on March 09, 2022, 08:38:00 pm
"Peace through strength", Ronald Reagan. "War through weakness", Joe Biden.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: digitaldog on March 09, 2022, 08:39:50 pm
"Peace through strength", Ronald Reagan. "War through weakness", Joe Biden.
Stupidity and carpet pooping by Frans Waterlander san's any photography experience.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: Frans Waterlander on March 09, 2022, 08:43:55 pm
Man, you're so predictable. Why not comment on what I just posted instead of your usual claptrap about my photographic skills?
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: digitaldog on March 09, 2022, 08:48:00 pm
Man, you're so predictable. Why not comment on what I just posted instead of your usual claptrap about my photographic skills?
I did comment on your stupid comments about the cost of gas and Biden. As did others. And added, you're not a photographer. At least there is zero proof of this.
You are so predictable in your inability to post in any of the forums here without well-deserved ridicule from so many  here. Only you sir don't get that fact.
Again; no doubts whatsoever:
(http://digitaldog.net/files/AllDoubtsRemoved.jpg)
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: digitaldog on March 09, 2022, 08:53:25 pm
Exactly. Quit whining, America. 
Back to the fellow here (https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=140319.msg1237231#msg1237231) who was whining:
"The tendency to whining and complaining may be taken as the surest sign symptom of little souls and inferior intellects."-Francis Jeffrey
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: James Clark on March 10, 2022, 01:33:11 pm
Man, you're so predictable. Why not comment on what I just posted instead of your usual claptrap about my photographic skills?

'Cuz you're posting idiocy.

Here, I drew a picture for you.  I eagerly await your explanation for how Trump lowered gas prices  over the course of the Obama admin, and how Biden is responsible for gas prices that started going up well before he was inaugurated. 

For bonus points, link me to a post where you discussed (complained about) whose fault it was when gas prices rose from late 2020 until Trump was escorted out of office, or where they were rising consistently under Trump until COVID, or heck, even how they rose throughout the (R) administration prior to Obama, and all the times you blamed Republicans for that..




Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: TechTalk on March 10, 2022, 02:52:42 pm
OMG...[Blah.. Blah.. Blah]...

...Let's go, Brandon!

The link in the quote below is regularly updated. It was most recently updated two days ago on March 8th.

... not that the information contained therein will matter to those just looking to *regurgitate political talking points for the entertainment of themselves and others of similar mind.

* regurgitate (https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/regurgitate): Repeat (information) without analyzing or comprehending it.

The report below consists mostly of charts for those with little time or inclination to read.

What drives crude oil prices?

An analysis of 7 factors that influence oil markets, with chart data updated monthly and quarterly - October 13, 2021

"Crude oil prices react to a variety of geopolitical and economic events"

https://www.eia.gov/finance/markets/crudeoil/reports_What drives crude oil prices? (https://www.eia.gov/finance/markets/crudeoil/reports_presentations/crude.pdf)
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: TechTalk on March 10, 2022, 02:54:02 pm
...Silly me!

Indeed.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: TechTalk on March 10, 2022, 02:56:10 pm
"Peace through strength", Ronald Reagan. "War through weakness", Joe Biden.

Foot in Mouth — Frans Waterlander

I don't think you want me to get on the topic of politics since you couldn't handle that.

You couldn't handle it; don't be a masochist!
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: TechTalk on March 10, 2022, 03:08:37 pm
'Cuz you're posting idiocy.

Here, I drew a picture for you.  I eagerly await your explanation for how Trump lowered gas prices  over the course of the Obama admin, and how Biden is responsible for gas prices that started going up well before he was inaugurated. 

For bonus points, link me to a post where you discussed (complained about) whose fault it was when gas prices rose from late 2020 until Trump was escorted out of office, or where they were rising consistently under Trump until COVID, or heck, even how they rose throughout the (R) administration prior to Obama, and all the times you blamed Republicans for that..

Thanks for the informative post.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: TechTalk on March 10, 2022, 03:44:24 pm
...the closing of the XL pipeline...

Not this XL pipeline crap again...

(https://c.tenor.com/RqHtptffObMAAAAC/beating-dead.gif)
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: LesPalenik on March 10, 2022, 06:26:57 pm
Not this XL pipeline crap again...

You win again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCCUGTvNSrs
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: Jonathan Cross on March 11, 2022, 04:42:19 am
Domestic oil prices in the UK - just for comparison.

Petrol for cars is roughly $7.5 US per US gallon and predicted to go to $9.5 at current exchange rates.

I have just ordered 800 litres of domestic heating oil.  One company will not quote.  My usual supplier is reluctant to quote for new customers, and even if does, will not give a price until just before delivery then it will give the cost.  The customer can cancel at that point.  We have an account so will be supplied, but the price is just over $5.0 per US gallon at current exchange rate.  Delivery will be in 10 days.  The price has nearly doubled since last December.

Jonathan

Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: Rhossydd on March 11, 2022, 06:34:03 am
...prices in the UK...
I'm reading that petrol is hitting 3euros a litre in Paris which is 50% higher than the UK!
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: digitaldog on March 11, 2022, 12:53:44 pm
Yes, Putin is a genius, albeit an evil genius. 
You're in the same company as these Trumpist Republicans:
Quote
As Russia launched its invasion of Ukraine,Trumpist Republicans lavished praise on "the president's strength and shrewdness," said Meryl Kornfield in The Washington Post. "President Vladimir Putin, that is."
Former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo called Putin an "elegantly sophisticated" leader who deserves "enormous respect." Fox News host Tucker Carlson minimized Russia's aggression as a "border conflict" and suggested his viewers should view "woke" liberals, and not Putin, as their real enemies. Former President Donald Trump called Putin a "savvy" leader who made a "genius" move by sending troops into Eastern Ukraine. "I know him very, very, very well,' Trump shamelessly boasted. As his longtime pal rains bombs and missiles on Ukrainian civilians, Trump's "fangirling" is particularly "despicable," said Tim Miller in The Bulwark. It's reminiscent of "the America First Nazi apologists of the 1930s.'
Border conflict, right....
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: LesPalenik on March 11, 2022, 01:41:14 pm
Dealing with a difficult boss.

Quote
Putin 'has placed the head of the FSB's foreign intelligence branch under house arrest because he is furious at security services for failing to warn him' that Ukraine could fiercely resist invasion.

- Vladimir Putin has reportedly placed the head of the FSB's foreign service under house arrest, along with his deputy
- The Russian president is said to blame his intelligence agencies for the slow pace of the war in Ukraine, which has seen Russian casualties continue to mount
- Andrey Soldatov, a well-respected author on the Russian secret services, said sources inside the FSB told him of the arrests on Friday
- Embezzlement of funds allocated for subversive and undercover work in Ukraine, as well as false information, is said to be the reason for the arrests
- The FSB security service allegedly told Putin Ukraine was weak, riddled with neo-Nazi groups, and would give up easily if he invaded
- The news comes after Putin was said to have sacked his top generals

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10603045/Putin-places-head-FSBs-foreign-intelligence-branch-house-arrest.html
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: Robert Roaldi on March 11, 2022, 06:13:07 pm
Dealing with a difficult boss.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10603045/Putin-places-head-FSBs-foreign-intelligence-branch-house-arrest.html

It strikes me that acting this way might be one of the reasons that Trump has some affinity for Putin. How many people has Trump wished he could throw in jail when it suited him? :)

It's hard to imagine that there is much loyalty toward Putin among his countrymen.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: TechTalk on March 11, 2022, 07:56:50 pm
Those with authoritarian aspirations (like Trump) seem to flock together and migrate in the direction of genuine authoritarian rulers.  The story linked below from NPR I found interesting.

Why Belarus is so involved in Russia's invasion of Ukraine - March 11, 2022

https://www.npr.org/2022/03/11/belarus-ukraine-russia-invasion-lukashenko-putin (https://www.npr.org/2022/03/11/1085548867/belarus-ukraine-russia-invasion-lukashenko-putin)

Excerpt from article...

Why is Belarus aiding the Russian invasion?

In short, Russia has helped Belarus — and specifically its authoritarian leader, Alexander Lukashenko — and now, Russian President Vladimir Putin has called in the favor.

For decades, Lukashenko had played Belarus as something of a neutral state, shifting his overtures from Russia to Western nations and back as his needs suited.

But a key turning point came in 2020, after Lukashenko declared victory in a controversial, disputed presidential election.

Lukashenko's claim of a landslide victory — 80% for Lukashenko versus 10% for his popular opponent, Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya — was instantly disputed, both by the opposition and by the U.S. and its allies in Europe.

In Belarus, protests erupted on an unprecedented scale. They lasted for weeks, with security forces arresting thousands but still failing to suppress the huge numbers of demonstrators in the capital Minsk.

Facing the biggest popular challenge in his 26 years of power, Lukashenko turned to Putin for help. And Putin delivered, announcing that the Russian military stood ready to intervene "if necessary."

An emboldened Lukashenko embarked on a vicious crackdown, with mass arrests and torture of detainees. His government jailed political opponents and journalists, shut down human rights organizations and criminalized displays of what it called "extremism."

More than 37,000 people were detained in the year ending May 2021, according to a new report by the United Nations.

"These arrests and detentions, accompanied by the unlawful use of force that caused serious bodily injury and harm, and followed by torture and ill-treatment, including rape, were on a large scale and had the effect of exerting pressure on the population, to stifle dissent and public displays of opposition to the incumbent President," the report states.

Lukashenko's actions came at a cost, says Tatsiana Kulakevich, a political scientist at the University of South Florida who is originally from Belarus.

"The door was closed towards the West, and he had only one option: Russia," Kulakevich said. "He needs support, he needs money. And Putin provided that to him."

* The excerpt above is from the much longer article linked above which is enlightening.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: LesPalenik on March 11, 2022, 10:18:15 pm
They must have used the same voting machines in their recent referendum on ditching Belarus "neutral" status.

Quote
Feb 27 (Reuters) - A referendum in Belarus on Sunday approved a new constitution ditching the country's non-nuclear status at a time when the former Soviet republic has become a launch pad for Russian troops invading Ukraine, Russian news agencies said.

The agencies cited the Belarus central elections commission as saying 65.2% of those who took part voted in favor. The result came as little surprise, given the tightly controlled rule of President Alexander Lukashenko.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: PeterAit on March 12, 2022, 10:45:50 am
Re: gas prices. Biden has asked domestic oil producers to increase their output to help with the price increases. They are saying "not unless we can make enough profit."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-11/ukraine-war-puts-biden-and-u-s-oil-at-odds-on-domestic-drilling

Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: LesPalenik on March 12, 2022, 11:06:56 am
Re: gas prices. Biden has asked domestic oil producers to increase their output to help with the price increases. They are saying "not unless we can make enough profit."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-11/ukraine-war-puts-biden-and-u-s-oil-at-odds-on-domestic-drilling

Paraphrasing Winston Churchill - Biden will always do the right thing, but only after he has tried everything else.

Quote
Winston Churchill once said, “You can always count on the Americans to do the right thing after they have tried everything else.”
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: digitaldog on March 12, 2022, 01:21:36 pm
Paraphrasing Winston Churchill - Biden will always do the right thing, but only after he has tried everything else.
Depends on the administration. The last one didn't follow that mantra; just the opposite.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: sf on March 13, 2022, 01:37:03 pm
Depends on the administration. The last one didn't follow that mantra; just the opposite.

You mean he'd do the right thing before trying anything else?

S
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: digitaldog on March 13, 2022, 01:43:42 pm
You mean he'd do the right thing before trying anything else?

S
Again, no. The opposite.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: TechTalk on March 13, 2022, 07:46:34 pm
Paraphrasing Winston Churchill - Biden will always do the right thing, but only after he has tried everything else.

Quote
Winston Churchill once said, “You can always count on the Americans to do the right thing after they have tried everything else.”

The Churchill quote above is one of those made-up attributions for which there is no record of him ever saying it.

He did say, however...

"This truth is incontrovertible. Panic may resent it, ignorance may deride it, malice may distort it, but there it is." — Winston Churchill, Speech in the House of Commons, May 17, 1916
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: TechTalk on March 13, 2022, 08:16:32 pm
Rushing to cancel the pipeline on the first day of his presidency shows a poor judgment and a small and vindictive mind.

If you want a taste of small and vindictive minds, you should see how some cultish Elon Musk worshipers react online when anyone dares to criticize or fails to pay appropriate homage to their messiah! They never forget and they never forgive any perceived transgressions!

It's only been in recent months that I became aware of the existence of this online cult of personality, but they can be wicked and unrelenting!
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: LesPalenik on March 13, 2022, 08:16:49 pm
Belarus adhering strictly to Russia's official parlance.

Quote
Authorities in Belarus have arrested and detained Mark Bernstein, one of the top editors of Russian Wikipedia, according to local publication Zerkalo. Bernstein was reportedly accused of violating the "fake news" law Russia passed in early March by editing the Wikipedia article about the invasion of Ukraine. Under the new law, anybody found guilty of what the country deems as false information about the Ukraine invasion — remember, the Kremlin calls it a "special military operation" — could be imprisoned for up to 15 years.

It was the Main Directorate for Combating Organized Crime and Corruption of Belarus (GUBOPiK) that had arrested Bernstein, The Verge reports. The publication says his social media accounts, Wikipedia handle and workplace were shared on GUBOPiK's public Telegram channel before he was taken in. A video of his arrest was also posted on the channel, along with a photo that accuses him of "distributing fake anti-Russian information."

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/mark-bernstein-russian-wikipedia-pages-detained-in-belarus-104102452.html
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: LesPalenik on March 13, 2022, 08:23:08 pm
If you want a taste of small and vindictive minds, you should see how some cultish Elon Musk worshipers react online when anyone dares to criticize or fails to pay appropriate homage to their messiah! They never forget and they never forgive any perceived transgressions!

It's only been in recent months that I became aware of the existence of this online cult of personality, but they can be wicked and unrelenting!

You are absolutely right, there are plenty of wicked and vitriolic posts by small and vindictive minds on both side of spectrum. Each anti-Musk and anti-Tesla tweet is usually straightened out by hundreds of his followers. Personally, I prefer to follow knowledgeable and open-minded commentators.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: TechTalk on March 13, 2022, 08:24:03 pm
You mean he'd do the right thing before trying anything else?

S

He'd do the wrong thing and try nothing else.

That is inevitably followed by claims of unprecedented success, blame shifting, or complete denial; dependent upon the resulting outcome.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: TechTalk on March 13, 2022, 09:39:58 pm
I prefer to follow intelligent and open-minded commentators.

I prefer not to follow any commentators, including those that are intelligent and open-minded, because they too posses the capacity for being stupid, narrow-minded, and utterly wrong — myself included, as the taste of shoe leather reminds me from time to time. Given enough time, enough introspection, and a frequent enough view of one's own foot in one's mouth; it's possible to conclude that no individual and no ideology is worthy of being followed. There are ideas and individuals that may merit our attention and consideration, but they need to be kept at enough distance to see them clearly and completely.

Some degree of doubt and skepticism are always worthwhile; as long as those aren't carried to extremes that result in a distorted perspective or undue cynicism. It is following extreme paths that give us bipolar societies in which things are constantly being distorted and stretched out of all proportion to reality.

Living in this post-truth, speed-of-internet, funhouse-mirror-world of instant information and misinformation is a bitch for any honest person to navigate these days. It's why people turn to ideology for simple answers to complex questions and embrace demagogues to get the confidence, certainty, and security they need to keep going.

We are living through serious times, but it's probably best not to take any individual's current perception or perspective—including our own—too seriously.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: TechTalk on March 13, 2022, 10:08:53 pm
Each anti-Musk and anti-Tesla tweet is usually straightened out by hundreds of his followers.

The fact that any perceived criticism or insufficient recognition is deemed to be "anti-Musk and anti-Tesla" which needs to be "straightened out by hundreds of his followers" is precisely the bizarre phenomenon that I've witnessed online. You've summed it up well. Very weird!
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: PeterAit on March 14, 2022, 11:13:30 am
Paraphrasing Winston Churchill - Biden will always do the right thing, but only after he has tried everything else.

And what else did he try before? C'mon, we are waiting.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: LesPalenik on March 14, 2022, 12:19:20 pm
And what else did he try before? C'mon, we are waiting.

Initially, he didn't try much and he didn't try hard enough. On Feb 24, he sanctioned just 2 Russian banks and 5 oligarchs.
On another front, it took him over one year before he acknowledged Tesla's status as the nation’s largest producer of electric vehicles - for the first time in his presidency.  That acknowledgment came a month or two after he declared GM and its CEO, Mary Barra as the leaders on the EV field.

Quote
The economic sanctions announced by Mr. Biden on Tuesday against Moscow are limited, targeting a pair of Russian banks, VEB and Promsvyazbank, and five Russian oligarchs with ties to the Kremlin and Putin.

Feb 24: "If you look at where the U.S. is on the sanctions escalation ladder, it's on rung three of 10 right now," said Chris Miller, an assistant professor at the Fletcher School of Tufts University and co-director of its Russia and Eurasia Program. When comparing the economic measures the U.S. has imposed on Russia thus far with penalties targeting Iran, Miller said "we're nowhere close to Iran-style sanctions."

Quote
President Joe Biden publicly acknowledged Tesla for the first time in his presidency on Tuesday, noting the company’s status as the nation’s largest producer of electric vehicles.

Biden’s mention of Tesla came during a speech to promote American companies expanding the nation’s EV infrastructure. It was sandwiched between shoutouts to legacy automakers General Motors and Ford Motor, as well as smaller EV companies Rivian Automotive and Proterra. Biden had avoided mentioning the company so far as president, a decision White House aides say is driven by his perception that Tesla is anti-union

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/russia-sanctions-biden-aggressive/
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/08/biden-acknowledges-teslas-ev-leadership-despite-musks-criticisms.html
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: TechTalk on March 14, 2022, 04:07:26 pm
Initially, he didn't try much and he didn't try hard enough.

What plan of action are you suggesting? What would the cascade of responses and counter-responses from all sides look like?
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: TechTalk on March 14, 2022, 04:09:47 pm
On Feb 24, he sanctioned just 2 Russian banks and 5 oligarchs.

"just 2 Russian banks and 5 oligarchs"...

U.S. Treasury Announces Unprecedented & Expansive Sanctions Against Russia, Imposing Swift and Severe Economic Costs - February 24, 2022

United States Acts in Tandem with Partners and Allies to Maximize Consequences for Russia, and in Show of Unity Against Invasion of a Sovereign State. Top Ten Russian Financial Institutions Now Under U.S Restrictions; U.S. Ready to Impose Additional Major Costs.

https://home.treasury.gov/Unprecedented & Expansive Sanctions Against Russia-Swift and Severe Economic Costs (https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/jy0608)

Summary Excerpts. Details at link above...

The United States took significant and unprecedented action to respond to Russia’s further invasion of Ukraine by imposing severe economic costs that will have both immediate and long-term effects on the Russian economy and financial system. The U.S. Department of the Treasury’s Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) today imposed expansive economic measures, in partnership with allies and partners, that target the core infrastructure of the Russian financial system — including all of Russia’s largest financial institutions and the ability of state-owned and private entities to raise capital — and further bars Russia from the global financial system. The actions also target nearly 80 percent of all banking assets in Russia and will have a deep and long-lasting effect on the Russian economy and financial system.

Building off of President Biden’s initial sanctions announcement this week, today Treasury is taking action against Russia’s top financial institutions, including sanctioning by far Russia’s two largest banks and almost 90 financial institution subsidiaries around the world. Treasury is also sanctioning additional Russian elites and their family members and imposing additional new prohibitions related to new debt and equity of major Russian state-owned enterprises and large privately owned financial institutions. This will fundamentally imperil Russia’s ability to raise capital key to its acts of aggression. These actions are specifically designed to impose immediate costs and disrupt and degrade future economic activity, isolate Russia from international finance and commerce, and degrade the Kremlin’s future ability to project power....
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: LesPalenik on March 14, 2022, 04:14:57 pm
What plan of action are you suggesting? What would the cascade of responses and counter-responses from all sides look like?

I would have suggested to go full with sanctions and weapon shipments right from the start of the "Special Military Operation". Something like what Trudeau and Scholz did.
Anyway, as I said in the initial post, he did the right thing after all, and imposed later a much more extensive package of sanctions.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: TechTalk on March 14, 2022, 04:15:54 pm
More summary excerpts... Details at link above... "just 2 Russian banks and 5 oligarchs"...

Targeting Russia’s Two Largest Financial Institutions

Treasury is taking unprecedented action against Russia’s two largest financial institutions, Public Joint Stock Company Sberbank of Russia (Sberbank)and VTB Bank Public Joint Stock Company (VTB Bank), drastically altering their fundamental ability to operate. On a daily basis, Russian financial institutions conduct about $46 billion worth of foreign exchange transactions globally, 80 percent of which are in U.S. dollars. The vast majority of those transactions will now be disrupted. By cutting off Russia’s two largest banks — which combined make up more than half of the total banking system in Russia by asset value — from processing payments through the U.S. financial system. The Russian financial institutions subject to today’s action can no longer benefit from the remarkable reach, efficiency, and security of the U.S. financial system.

Correspondent and Payable-Through Account Sanctions on Sberbank

Today Treasury is imposing correspondent and payable-through account sanctions on Sberbank. Sberbank is uniquely important to the Russian economy, holding about a third of all bank assets in Russia. Sberbank is the largest financial institution in Russia and is majority-owned by the GoR. It holds the largest market share of savings deposits in the country, is the main creditor of the Russian economy, and is deemed by the GoR to be a systemically important financial institution. Within 30 days, OFAC is requiring all U.S. financial institutions to close any Sberbank correspondent or payable-through accounts and to reject any future transactions involving Sberbank or its foreign financial institution subsidiaries. Payments that Sberbank attempts to process in U.S. dollars for its clients — with examples ranging from to technology to transportation — will be disrupted and rejected once the payment hits a U.S. financial institution...

Full Blocking Sanctions on VTB

OFAC has imposed full blocking sanctions on VTB Bank, Russia’s second-largest financial institution, which holds nearly 20 percent of banking assets in Russia. VTB Bank is majority-owned by the GoR, which deems it to be a systemically important financial institution. This will sever a critical artery of Russia’s financial system. By imposing these sanctions, assets held in U.S. financial institutions will be instantly frozen and inaccessible to the Kremlin. This is one of the largest financial institutions Treasury has ever blocked and sends an unmistakable signal that the United States is following through on its promise of delivering severe economic costs.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: PeterAit on March 14, 2022, 05:13:06 pm
Initially, he didn't try much and he didn't try hard enough. On Feb 24, he sanctioned just 2 Russian banks and 5 oligarchs.
On another front, it took him over one year before he acknowledged Tesla's status as the nation’s largest producer of electric vehicles - for the first time in his presidency.  That acknowledgment came a month or two after he declared GM and its CEO, Mary Barra as the leaders on the EV field.


Could yo9u POSSIBLY be more petty? You seem to have no inhibitions about embarrassing yourself on this group.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: TechTalk on March 14, 2022, 05:39:05 pm
On another front...

Yes, another front opened up today in the Russian war against Ukraine...

From NPR...

Yes, Elon Musk did just challenge Putin to a fight (https://www.npr.org/live-updates/ukraine-russia-civilian-deaths-talks-pregnant-woman-03-14-2022#yes-elon-musk-did-just-challenge-putin-to-a-fight)

SpaceX and Tesla CEO Elon Musk is offering to fight Russian President Vladimir Putin, saying that if he wins, Putin will have to withdraw his military forces from Ukraine.

“I hereby challenge Владимир Путин [Vladimir Putin] to single combat,” Musk tweeted, using Cyrillic in an apparent bid to make sure Putin understood him. He added, “Stakes are Україна” -- Ukraine.

The tweet quickly gained wide notice and a bit of backlash, as critics accused Musk of using a catastrophic event to draw attention to himself through outlandish statements.

But the billionaire insisted that he is serious, going so far as to direct a follow-up tweet at the Kremlin with the question, “Do you agree to this fight?”

Musk has previously sided with Ukraine in its war to repel Russia’s invasion, including sending terminals to set up his Starlink satellite-based internet service in Ukraine.


* Personal Note to Elon... Love what you've done with moving electric vehicles forward and with SpaceX. Love the Starlink internet service to help Ukraine. But... it doesn't entitle you to trivialize the tragedy happening to the people of Ukraine by making it about you.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: kers on March 14, 2022, 06:26:31 pm
This lady working at the Russian channel  1tv.com shows this sign during the news:
" you are being lied to here ... "

She has parents from both Russia and Ukraine and says : go demontrate!; they cannot lock us all up...
She apologizes for the lies she has told the people in the past when working for the Russian news.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: LesPalenik on March 14, 2022, 06:32:53 pm
And what else did he try before? C'mon, we are waiting.

Could yo9u POSSIBLY be more petty? You seem to have no inhibitions about embarrassing yourself on this group.

I suggest, you educate yourself more thoroughly in the current affairs. First you ask for more information and then when you don't like the facts, you resort to personal attacks. I try to provide information which might be of interest to some readers, but I'm not here to get into silly and unproductive pissing contests. Instead, I will continue to follow closely the development in Eastern Europe and try to make some extra bucks which I can contribute to Ukrainian cause.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: PeterAit on March 15, 2022, 10:27:05 am

On another front, it took him over one year before he acknowledged Tesla's status as the nation’s largest producer of electric vehicles - for the first time in his presidency.  That acknowledgment came a month or two after he declared GM and its CEO, Mary Barra as the leaders on the EV field.


Aww, did poor widdle Elon get his feelings hurt?
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: PeterAit on March 15, 2022, 10:36:21 am
I suggest, you educate yourself more thoroughly in the current affairs. First you ask for more information and then when you don't like the facts, you resort to personal attacks. I try to provide information which might be of interest to some readers, but I'm not here to get into silly and unproductive pissing contests. Instead, I will continue to follow closely the development in Eastern Europe and try to make some extra bucks which I can contribute to Ukrainian cause.

It's not that I don't like the facts you presented, they are indeed true. But they are petty and irrelevant. The sanctions business has been explained here by others. The Tesla snub was just politics, Biden playing to his base. Big whoop. Hence I called you petty. It's not a personal attack, just a description--like calling Danny DeVito short.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: LesPalenik on March 15, 2022, 08:11:44 pm
It's not that I don't like the facts you presented, they are indeed true. But they are petty and irrelevant. The sanctions business has been explained here by others. The Tesla snub was just politics, Biden playing to his base. Big whoop. Hence I called you petty. It's not a personal attack, just a description--like calling Danny DeVito short.

In my original post, I aimed to say that Biden is a good man, but sometimes too slow to take the right action.
You are right, Peter. Biden's Tesla snub was indeed petty and irrelevant especially when compared to Russia's war. But saying on the national TV that GM is the EV leader when in reality they are at the very bottom, is on the same scale of lies, as Russian TV broadcasting that the atrocities in Ukraine are carried out by Ukrainians, not by Russians. Many people who are not familiar with the real situation, may believe such stupid lies when they hear it from their president on TV. Let's hope for better and more truthful news.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: digitaldog on March 15, 2022, 08:33:22 pm
In my original post, I aimed to say that Biden is a good man, but sometimes too slow to take the right action.
Slow and steady (and taking time to be on the same page with our allies) is IMHO, a better approach than being impulsive like, well you know who.  ;)
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: TechTalk on March 15, 2022, 10:44:20 pm
...saying on the national TV that GM is the EV leader when in reality they are at the very bottom, is on the same scale of lies, as Russian TV broadcasting that the atrocities in Ukraine are carried out by Ukrainians, not by Russians....

I don't know what you believe Biden said, which specific event you're referring to, or in what context you think the comments were made, but... they are not "on the same scale" as "atrocities in Ukraine". Those are so far apart, they're not even in the same planetary orbit for cryin' out loud!
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: Peter McLennan on March 16, 2022, 12:08:40 am
In a connected world like ours, why are the NATO principals meeting NEXT WEEK in Brussels?  Time would appear to be of the essence.
Why the hell aren't they meeting TODAY? Don't they have secure comms?  WTF?
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: Chris Kern on March 16, 2022, 01:51:25 pm
. . . why are the NATO principals meeting NEXT WEEK in Brussels?  . . .  Why the hell aren't they meeting TODAY? Don't they have secure comms?

Meetings of heads of state and government are ceremonial events which are scheduled to announce decisions that have already been negotiated at lower levels—even an "extraordinary Summit" like the March 24 meeting announced by NATO Secretary-General Stoltenberg.  I suspect an important objective of the Brussels meeting is to maintain popular support for the sanctions, which are going to cause economic disruption in many of the participating countries.

I would be very surprised if civilian government and military representatives of all the NATO members weren't conducting daily conversations and negotiations both in international visits and over secure communication channels.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: TechTalk on March 16, 2022, 04:33:52 pm
Slow and steady (and taking time to be on the same page with our allies) is IMHO, a better approach than being impulsive like, well you know who.  ;)

Exactly right. When the two nations, which between them posses over 90% of all the nuclear warheads in the world, are staring eye to eye in a serious confrontation; a deliberate, comprehensive, and cautious approach to every aspect and consideration of the situation is paramount to avoid miscalculations which can have catastrophic results.

I know that I'm not alone in thinking back on the 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis as recent events have unfolded. There are two books of which I'm reminded. One is Thirteen Days (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteen_Days_(book)), Robert F. Kennedy's account of that crisis as it unfolded, which was published posthumously in 1969. The other is The Guns of August (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Guns_of_August) by Barbara Tuchman, which was published in 1962, about the origins of World War I. The book was a Pulitzer Prize winning bestseller at the time.

The Guns of August was read by President Kennedy in 1962 and it had a profound effect on him. He gave copies of the book to his closest civilian and military advisors with instructions to read it. The book's depiction of the overconfident errors in judgement and the speed at which events spun out of control, leading to a catastrophic war, was not lost on Kennedy.

Generally, I dislike most films "based on actual events" or historical docudramas because they usually stray too far from actual history for my liking. One exception is the 2000 film Thirteen Days which is not based on the RFK book by that name. It's based on the 1997 book The Kennedy Tapes: Inside the White House During the Cuban Missile Crisis which was written after tapes were released of White House discussions recorded during the crisis. Parts of the film are verbatim recreations from the tapes. The main historical criticism of the movie was their choice of using Kennedy friend and adviser Ken O'Donnell as a plot device to thread the various other participants together, but the accuracy in other respects is so good and revealing that I don't have a problem overlooking that bit of dramatic license and contrivance.

The reason that I mention the film is that there is a 90-second clip that accurately summarizes what weighed on Kennedy's mind in making decisions about how to proceed during the crisis...

https://www.youtube.com/Thirteen Days - They Fire Their Missiles, Then We Fire Ours (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_TLztvV4ns)

The world survived that confrontation in 1962. It wasn't until a few decades later that we learned just how close to the precipice we actually had been standing. It's fortunate that there was enough caution, doubt, and suspicion of overconfident advice that sanity eventually prevailed in the decisions and decision makers. May we always be so lucky.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: Peter McLennan on March 16, 2022, 08:47:11 pm
Even it Putin commanded a nuclear weapon attack on Ukraine, and even if his military were stupid enough to follow his orders, I have faith that the west would refrain from retaliating in kind.

I have been wrong about stuff before.

Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: William Walker on March 17, 2022, 04:48:47 am
I keep popping back here in the hope of picking up another Joe Kitchen gem regarding his "genius" guy Putin - have I missed anything? 8)
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: Robert Roaldi on March 17, 2022, 08:11:18 am
I keep popping back here in the hope of picking up another Joe Kitchen gem regarding his "genius" guy Putin - have I missed anything? 8)

I'm waiting for the Musk vs Putin duel at dawn: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2022/03/14/elon-musk-putin-fight-ukraine/7036541001/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2022/03/14/elon-musk-putin-fight-ukraine/7036541001/). I would really prefer not to make light of this, but reality intrudes.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: TechTalk on March 17, 2022, 08:42:07 pm
I have no doubt that there are some so blindly partisan that their historical reference point for Putin invading Ukraine only stretches back as far as Biden's inauguration. There isn't much that you can discuss intelligently with minds like that (https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=140319.msg1237340#msg1237340).

For anyone looking to elevate their view enough to observe a longer and broader historical vantage point, you may be interested in the recent PBS Frontline documentary Putin's Road to War. It premiered a couple of days ago and is now available on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/Putin's Road to War (full documentary) | FRONTLINE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsfUiTJv2lE)

Support Public Broadcasting

FRONTLINE tells the story of what led to Vladimir Putin’s war on Ukraine. Veteran filmmaker Michael Kirk and his team examine the events that shaped the Russian leader, the grievances that drive him and how a growing conflict with the West exploded into war in Europe.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/putins-road-to-war (https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/putins-road-to-war/)
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: Peter McLennan on March 17, 2022, 09:16:04 pm
Thanks, TT.  Off to watch them both.

Here's an excellent site for info why a no-fly zone is a non starter

https://rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentary/ukraine-no-fly-zone-would-be-ineffective-dangerous-and-gift-putin

The whole site is treasure trove.

Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: Peter McLennan on March 18, 2022, 12:08:24 am
I have no doubt that there are some so blindly partisan that their historical reference point for Putin invading Ukraine only stretches back as far as Biden's inauguration. There isn't much that you can discuss intelligently with minds like that (https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=140319.msg1237340#msg1237340).

For anyone looking to elevate their view enough to observe a longer and broader historical vantage point, you may be interested in the recent PBS Frontline documentary Putin's Road to War. It premiered a couple of days ago and is now available on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/Putin's Road to War (full documentary) | FRONTLINE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsfUiTJv2lE)

Support Public Broadcasting

FRONTLINE tells the story of what led to Vladimir Putin’s war on Ukraine. Veteran filmmaker Michael Kirk and his team examine the events that shaped the Russian leader, the grievances that drive him and how a growing conflict with the West exploded into war in Europe.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/putins-road-to-war (https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/putins-road-to-war/)

“Video unavailable”
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: wcarlew on March 18, 2022, 01:35:41 pm
“Video unavailable”
Use a VPN, it is worth watching.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: TechTalk on March 18, 2022, 02:07:18 pm
I provided two links for the documentary, one link to YouTube and another to PBS. Both have the documentary video, but the PBS link has additional related content. Apparently neither work for you in Canada.

It appears that PBS has limited distribution rights. Content may be blocked in other countries. Using a VPN with a U.S. IP address is a possible option. I'm not sure what other options may work. There is something called PBS Passport for Canadian viewing, but I don't have details on how that works.

https://www.google.com/search?q=PBS+Frontline+blocked+in+Canada (https://www.google.com/search?q=PBS+Frontline+blocked+in+Canada)

https://www.countryvpn.com/how-to-watch-pbs-in-canada (https://www.countryvpn.com/how-to-watch-pbs-in-canada/)

https://www.vermontpbs.org/canada (https://www.vermontpbs.org/canada/)

For our Canadian Viewers

We appreciate our many viewers and supporters in Canada. We summarized helpful information below applicable to you. Any additional questions and suggestions are welcome!

Watch us - ALL original Vermont PBS online content is available for viewing in Canada. See our Schedule Page for all current broadcast times.

While over-the-air broadcasts reach beyond U.S. borders into Canada, online video may be subject to geo-filtering, which restricts the areas in Canada that can view PBS content. The terms of our agreements with producers and distributors sometimes limits streaming ability for some PBS programs outside the United States.

Our main channel is available in the Montréal area, and some other areas in Québec and Ontario. Some Québec residents may be able to acquire our WETK broadcast signal. Otherwise we are available via cable providers:  Axion; Bell Fibe TV ; and Videotron.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: TechTalk on March 18, 2022, 02:11:26 pm
Thanks, TT.  Off to watch them both.

Here's an excellent site for info why a no-fly zone is a non starter

https://rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentary/ukraine-no-fly-zone-would-be-ineffective-dangerous-and-gift-putin

The whole site is treasure trove.

Thank you for the link! I've been exploring their site and there is much worth diving into! I was not familiar with the organization or their site.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_United_Services_Institute (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_United_Services_Institute)

The Royal United Services Institute (RUSI, Rusi), registered as Royal United Service Institute for Defence and Security Studies and formerly the Royal United Services Institute for Defence Studies, is a British defence and security think tank. It was founded in 1831 by the Duke of Wellington, Sir Arthur Wellesley.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: TechTalk on March 18, 2022, 02:26:59 pm
Use a VPN, it is worth watching.

Like other PBS Frontline documentaries, it does an excellent job of illuminating a historical and present path and showing who, what, when, where, why, and how that path has been walked.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: LesPalenik on March 18, 2022, 03:05:39 pm
Some Chinese companies are benefitting from the depreciating rouble and the current situation in Russia.

Quote
Major Chinese Android smartphone brands are seeing robust demand this month in Russia, boosted by increased local consumer spending on essential electronics devices, as international sanctions against the invasion of Ukraine sent the rouble in free fall.

"Russian retailers are setting the price higher every few days to make up for the exchange loss," said Ivan Lam, Hong Kong-based analyst at Counterpoint Research. "People are buying everything from smartphones to home appliances before the currency further depreciates."

Sales of smartphones from Huawei Technologies Co, Oppo and Vivo significantly increased in the first two weeks of March, according to a report by Russian daily newspaper Kommersant on Wednesday, citing data from the country's largest mobile network operator MTS.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ukraine-invasion-russian-consumers-rush-093000711.html
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: LesPalenik on March 18, 2022, 03:35:24 pm
New industry born in Ukraine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcYSdzUs3cQ
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: Peter McLennan on March 18, 2022, 09:49:18 pm
Like other PBS Frontline documentaries, it does an excellent job of illuminating a historical and present path and showing who, what, when, where, why, and how that path has been walked.

I love Frontline.  Some of the best journalism out there.  I was most disappointed with the geo-restriction.

FWIW, a VPN causes havoc with Adobe CC subscriptions.

Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: Robert Roaldi on March 18, 2022, 10:03:55 pm
I love Frontline.  Some of the best journalism out there.  I was most disappointed with the geo-restriction.

FWIW, a VPN causes havoc with Adobe CC subscriptions.

I haven't investigated it but here in eastern Ontario, if you become a member of your nearest PBS station, you will get online access to content that is not normally available. I don't know what it costs to do that, there must be a sort of minimum membership that gets you that level of access. This is no different than subscribing to Netflix or Britbox or anything else. The advertisement-based model of news delivery seems to be gone, so other ways have emerged. The advantage for a public affairs deliverer of being beholden only to listeners and not to your advertizers is self-evident.
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: William Walker on March 19, 2022, 04:58:39 am
“Video unavailable”

Available in South Africa - excellent documentary - thanks!
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: LesPalenik on April 25, 2023, 01:47:38 am
Western journalist interviews in Moscow a local resident asking him how is the situation in Russia now. He replies:" I can't complain".
Title: Re: Russian Invasion
Post by: Robert Roaldi on May 04, 2023, 09:35:55 pm
Short BBC Report from Moscow about the mood there https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-65454203 (https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-65454203).