Luminous Landscape Forum
The Art of Photography => The Coffee Corner => Topic started by: digitaldog on November 07, 2021, 01:24:07 pm
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... If you have any interest in science, photography and imaging:
https://theweek.com/science/1006502/peering-at-the-edge-of-the-universe
NASA is preparing to launch the most powerful space telescope ever. What will it see? Here's everything you need to know:
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Wow!
I also want a camera that sees 150 million light years in the past to make portraits !
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It will see 13 billion years into the past, to a time shortly after the big bang. It is primarily an infrared telescope, because light from that time is highly red-shifted.
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I love it that they say the universe is 13.8 billion years old. Such precision!
Hopefully, the JWST will kick the preposterous big bang theory to the curb.
Here's a great video on the "Insane Engineering" of the new observatory.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aICaAEXDJQQ
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Hopefully, the JWST will kick the preposterous big bang theory to the curb.
How preposterous? Please explain.
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The launch is apparently now Saturday. Fingers crossed.
https://www.space.com/amp/nasa-james-webb-space-telescope-launch-webcasts
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I also want a camera that sees 150 million light years in the past to make portraits !
A light year is a unit of distance, not time.
S
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A light year is a unit of distance, not time.
S
+1
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light-year
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A light year is a unit of distance, not time.
S
He didn't say that it wasn't a distance. He said that he would like to see that distance (150 million light years) into the past. The light being viewed and which has traveled that distance is being viewed after having traveled that distance from the past.
I wouldn't get too overly pleased with myself for knowing that it is a measure of distance.
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He didn't say that it wasn't a distance. He said that he would like to see that distance (150 million light years) into the past. The light being viewed and which has traveled that distance is being viewed after having traveled that distance from the past.
I wouldn't get too overly pleased with myself for knowing that it is a measure of distance.
I agree with that. I saw it that way too.
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The launch currently is on for tomorrow (Dec. 25). My wife an I had a brief outdoor visit on the patio of our house from our grandchildren this afternoon, but we've canceled our other plans because of the SARS-CoV-2 virus so watching the launch, scheduled to take place at some time during a 32-minute window beginning at 1220 UTC from the European Spaceport located near Kourou, French Guiana (the location will give the Ariane 5 rocket an equatorial push), will be my Christmas present to myself. The launch is a joint project of the U.S. National Aeronautics and Space Administration and the European Space Agency. As far as I can determine, the NASA live stream (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rARTOhbLDg&ab_channel=NASASpaceflight) will be available worldwide.
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How preposterous? Please explain.
Gawd knows, I'm not an astrophysicist, but I did read "A Brief History of Time" on a beach in Sri Lanka and understood about 1% of it. So take all of the following with a grain of salt.
AFAICS, their contention is that before time began, there was nothing. Nothing at all. No time, no matter, no space, just nothing.
Then, from a single point in space (although there wasn't any space yet) precisely 13.8 billion years ago, the universe simply appeared, instantaneously.
How do they expect us to swallow that?
If it did suddenly appear from a single point, where is that point? They say that the universe is expanding. From where? From that magical point in space that didn't exist before the big bang? Shouldn't we be able to point to it and say "That's where it all began?" Apparently, they can't.
Worse, they tell us that it' expanding in size and even more worse, the rate of expansion is increasing. It's accelerating. Where's the energy coming from to propel that acceleration?
To balance the physics books, they expect us to believe that it's accelerated by "dark energy".
And if that's not enough, they tell us that they can't account for the majority of the mass that must be present for their explanations to all work out, so they invent "dark matter".
Really?
It appears to me to be a house of cards. Hopefully JWST will bring down that improbable construction and replace it with something even more preposterous.
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He didn't say that it wasn't a distance. He said that he would like to see that distance (150 million light years) into the past. The light being viewed and which has traveled that distance is being viewed after having traveled that distance from the past.
Nonsense.
S
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Which part?
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Gawd knows, I'm not an astrophysicist, but I did read "A Brief History of Time" on a beach in Sri Lanka and understood about 1% of it. So take all of the following with a grain of salt.
AFAICS, their contention is that before time began, there was nothing. Nothing at all. No time, no matter, no space, just nothing.
Then, from a single point in space (although there wasn't any space yet) precisely 13.8 billion years ago, the universe simply appeared, instantaneously.
How do they expect us to swallow that?
If it did suddenly appear from a single point, where is that point? They say that the universe is expanding. From where? From that magical point in space that didn't exist before the big bang? Shouldn't we be able to point to it and say "That's where it all began?" Apparently, they can't.
Worse, they tell us that it' expanding in size and even more worse, the rate of expansion is increasing. It's accelerating. Where's the energy coming from to propel that acceleration?
To balance the physics books, they expect us to believe that it's accelerated by "dark energy".
And if that's not enough, they tell us that they can't account for the majority of the mass that must be present for their explanations to all work out, so they invent "dark matter".
Really?
It appears to me to be a house of cards. Hopefully JWST will bring down that improbable construction and replace it with something even more preposterous.
I did a couple of physics degrees a lifetime ago so I suspect there are far more qualified people to respond. The laws pf physics were (are) developed to explain observed phenomenon. Those laws, as currently understood, can only reasonably explain things back to the big bang. They cannot explain what happened before yet, if anything happened back then. You seem to be assuming that they are trying to tell you that nothing existed before, whereas all physics is saying is that we have no theories to or observations to tell us what happened before. Not the same thing. There is no contention that nothing existed before, only that there is no observable data to lead to a theory that explains what existed before. This may change over time and probably will, if history is anything to go by.
I understand that physics sounds like science fiction, but that's partly because it's difficult to put the mathematics into English words. It sounds more fantastical that it is. The theories are there to explain observed phenomenon, which are real. You don't have to cite big bang to arrive at things that are hard to believe. If simple relativity is explained to the average person, they'll think it's a load of nonsense. I know this because I've tried. And yet we all use GPS every day, whose accuracy depends on relativity.
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Agreed, Robert. The big bang appears to be the physicists' best excuse for where our knowledge ends.
I just wish they'd come up with an excuse that's a little easier to swallow. Or, perhaps, be more honest with us.
Nevertheless, as someone who ran home from Grade 2 to tell my mom that the Russians had launched Sputnik, I'm more than stoked that I'll be able to see what the JWST has to offer.
Here's an excellent visualization of the launch and the unfolding. Nearly as preposterous as the BBT. :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9MxqFfBTzQ
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Agreed, Robert. The big bang appears to be the physicists' best excuse for where our knowledge ends.
I just wish they'd come up with an excuse that's a little easier to swallow. Or, perhaps, be more honest with us.
Nevertheless, as someone who ran home from Grade 2 to tell my mom that the Russians had launched Sputnik, I'm more than stoked that I'll be able to see what the JWST has to offer.
Here's an excellent visualization of the launch and the unfolding. Nearly as preposterous as the BBT. :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9MxqFfBTzQ
You might like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hApcpGJETA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hApcpGJETA). I recommend her channel.
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You might like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hApcpGJETA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hApcpGJETA). I recommend her channel.
Thanks, Robert. I find her comments interesting, but not very enlightening. I suspect that Einstein's theories are beyond my capability to understand at this stage of my 75 years. She does seem to allow that the BBT is really pretty much of a euphemism.
I attended a film shown in the National Air and Space Museum a few years ago. Neil de Grasse Tyson narrated and he addressed the question of "Where's the center of expansion where the Big Bang started?" by saying that "That's asking the wrong question." As much as I admire and enjoy NdGT, I found this a little challenging.
I continue to ask those questions. I don't think JWST is going to answer them, though. I suspect it will ask more questions than it answers. One scientist, when asked what he expected from JWST, responded "Surprises, I hope". I agree. That would truly reward our investment.
I do love the poetry describing the recent launch as "A journey from the tropical jungle to the morning of time".
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Super great news:
The James Webb Space Telescope, which launched on Christmas Day, successfully completed the deployment of its 70-foot (21-meter) sunshield on Tuesday. This critical milestone is one of several that must occur for the NASA observatory to function properly in space, and having achieved it was a big relief for the Webb team.
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Gawd knows, I'm not an astrophysicist, but I did read "A Brief History of Time" on a beach in Sri Lanka and understood about 1% of it. So take all of the following with a grain of salt.
AFAICS, their contention is that before time began, there was nothing. Nothing at all. No time, no matter, no space, just nothing.
Then, from a single point in space (although there wasn't any space yet) precisely 13.8 billion years ago, the universe simply appeared, instantaneously.
How do they expect us to swallow that?
If it did suddenly appear from a single point, where is that point? They say that the universe is expanding. From where? From that magical point in space that didn't exist before the big bang? Shouldn't we be able to point to it and say "That's where it all began?" Apparently, they can't.
Worse, they tell us that it' expanding in size and even more worse, the rate of expansion is increasing. It's accelerating. Where's the energy coming from to propel that acceleration?
To balance the physics books, they expect us to believe that it's accelerated by "dark energy".
And if that's not enough, they tell us that they can't account for the majority of the mass that must be present for their explanations to all work out, so they invent "dark matter".
Really?
It appears to me to be a house of cards. Hopefully JWST will bring down that improbable construction and replace it with something even more preposterous.
How do you explain the color purple to a person who's been blind since birth? Our senses were developed for use on Earth. We can't easily comprehend mysteries beyond the capabilities of our senses.
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How do you explain the color purple to a person who's been blind since birth? Our senses were developed for use on Earth. We can't easily comprehend mysteries beyond the capabilities of our senses.
"If you want a wise answer, ask a reasonable question." -Johann von Goethe
Not that you'd accept a reasonable answer.
As for the color purple, start here (try to get through part of the 3rd paragraph if possible: What is color?):
http://digitaldog.net/files/ColorNumbersColorGamut.pdf
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How do you explain the color purple to a person who's been blind since birth?
You have this odd repetitive habit of asking questions of others, when your posting history and agenda show/prove, you have no desire or ability to accept any answer. No need to ask.
How do so many here explain facts, data, science to a fellow who can't comprehend facts, data or science? Now that's a reasonable question you can't answer.🤫
You clearly don't belong posting in this thread, you didn't read the very first post here:
... If you have any interest in science, photography and imaging:
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We can't easily comprehend mysteries beyond the capabilities of our senses.
That's what science does.
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Keep fingers crossed, for at least 10 days:
Several steps remain in the telescope's deployment process in the coming days, including the deploying of the telescope's primary and secondary mirrors. That process will likely start in earnest this weekend, mission officials said, and should take about 10 days.
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We can't easily comprehend mysteries beyond the capabilities of our senses.
I understand this, Alan. It's not necessary for you to state the obvious.
If you read my post you'll see that what I disagree with is the preposterous story they've invented to cover their lack of understanding of these "mysteries beyond the capabilities of our senses."
In other news, the secondary mirror has been successfully deployed and is now latched firmly in place.
So far, so good.
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I understand this, Alan. It's not necessary for you to state the obvious.
It isn't necessary, but he can't help himself with this kind of posting agenda hobby of his.
He can't easily comprehend mysteries beyond the obvious. ;)
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The telescope now has reached its Lagrange L2 point in space and now cools down to -223K to begin ...
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LensAlign on an astronomical scale (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlwatKpla8s&ab_channel=JamesWebbSpaceTelescope%28JWST%29).
(Apologies to Michael Tapes, who makes the process somewhat easier for those of us fiddling with cameras down here on terra firma than for NASA operators manipulating remotely-operated equipment that is hovering around Lagrange Point 2.)
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LensAlign on an astronomical scale (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlwatKpla8s&ab_channel=JamesWebbSpaceTelescope%28JWST%29).
(Apologies to Michael Tapes, who makes the process somewhat easier for those of us fiddling with cameras down here on terra firma than for NASA operators manipulating remotely-operated equipment that is hovering around Lagrange Point 2.)
Thanks, Chris. An amazing story so far.
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The people who should be apologizing to Michael are these guys:
https://www.datacolor.com/photography-design/product-overview/spyderlenscal/ :'(
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The people who should be apologizing to Michael are these guys:
https://www.datacolor.com/photography-design/product-overview/spyderlenscal/ :'(
Yikes! That's really blatant.
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Yikes! That's really blatant.
Only one example. How about this (and X-rite):
https://www.datacolor.com/photography-design/product-overview/spyder-checkr-family/
Doesn't even make a real camera profile. An original idea, they haven't as yet developed....
But I have gone off-topic, sorry.
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Back on topic:
https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/11/world/james-webb-space-telescope-selfie-images-scn/index.html
Webb telescope's first test images include an unexpected 'selfie'
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The effort to align the mirrors of the James Webb Space Telescope continues to make steady progress. (https://blogs.nasa.gov/webb/2022/02/25/webb-mirror-alignment-continues-successfully/)
After moving what were 18 scattered dots of starlight into Webb’s signature hexagonal formation, the team refined each mirror segment’s image by making minor adjustments, while also changing the alignment of Webb’s secondary mirror. The completion of this process, known as Segment Alignment, was a key step prior to overlapping the light from all the mirrors so that they can work in unison.
The latest NASA weblog entry for the space telescope includes an animated GIF that illustrates this process:
(https://blogs.nasa.gov/webb/wp-content/uploads/sites/326/2022/02/SegmentAlignment.gif)
Although Image Stacking put all the light from a star in one place on NIRCam’s detector, the mirror segments are still acting as 18 small telescopes rather than one big one. The segments now need to be lined up to each other with an accuracy smaller than the wavelength of the light.
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Good to see they did not make the metric-inch mistake as they did with the Hubble...
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Good to see they did not make the metric-inch mistake as they did with the Hubble...
Wasn't that a martian chronicle probe story?
Anyway, progress goes boink to quote Watterson :
https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-s-webb-reaches-alignment-milestone-optics-working-successfully
(https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/styles/side_image/public/thumbnails/image/telescope_alignment_evaluation_image_labeled.png?itok=O2VufQ0E) (https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/thumbnails/image/telescope_alignment_evaluation_image_labeled.png)
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On Friday, NASA revealed in a post on the Webb Telescope’s blog that the operations team here on Earth is calling it a day as far as the sixth stage of Webb’s commissioning process goes. Now, they are ready to move on to the seventh and final step of getting the telescope ready for science — once the instruments cool to their operating temperatures, that is.