Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: BernardLanguillier on November 16, 2020, 06:28:17 pm

Title: Best lenses ever designed?
Post by: BernardLanguillier on November 16, 2020, 06:28:17 pm
Would anyone be interested in providing their top 5 of best lenses ever designed?

Just pure image quality, whatever the focal length, format,... based on first hand experience of course.

Here is mine from wide to tele in 35mm equivalent focal length order:
1. Phaseone Schneider Blue Ring 45mm f3.5
2. Nikon S 58mm f0.95 Noct
3. Rodenstock 90mm HR f5.6
4. Zeiss Otus 100mm f1.4
5. Nikon 200mm f2.0 VR II

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Best lenses ever designed?
Post by: kers on November 17, 2020, 05:59:49 am
Maybe it is good to mention why?

i say this because i have read some reservations about the Otus 85mm from you about bokeh... and i know the bokeh of the nikkor 58mm is one of its strong points.
(the 200mm f2 lens is desirable except for its size and weight...!)
and what makes the schneider and rodenstck stand out? etc
+ examples if you can show your opinion i an image ...


Title: Re: Best lenses ever designed?
Post by: fdisilvestro on November 17, 2020, 03:39:29 pm
i have read some reservations about the Otus 85mm from you about bokeh

Maybe that's why that lens is not on the list
Title: Re: Best lenses ever designed?
Post by: kers on November 17, 2020, 08:11:41 pm
maybe you are right :)
Title: Re: Best lenses ever designed?
Post by: BernardLanguillier on November 17, 2020, 09:22:52 pm
Maybe it is good to mention why?

i say this because i have read some reservations about the Otus 85mm from you about bokeh... and i know the bokeh of the nikkor 58mm is one of its strong points.
(the 200mm f2 lens is desirable except for its size and weight...!)
and what makes the schneider and rodenstck stand out? etc
+ examples if you can show your opinion i an image ...

On the why, I don't think that image quality relates to a specific application.

And yes, I find the out of focus highlights of the Otus 100mm f1.4 much nicer than those of the 85mm f1.4. I guess this is why Zeiss needed several years to release it.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Best lenses ever designed?
Post by: shadowblade on November 18, 2020, 04:10:36 am
'Image quality' means absolutely nothing if it isn't the focal length you need, or if the lens can't actually AF fast enough to track a moving subject (for the focal lengths at which that is relevant).

Theoretically perfect manual-focus lenses are all well and good if you're shooting nonmoving subjects in a controlled environment, but are far less useful out in the field where subjects are moving and you can't reshoot at leisure.

On that note:

Sony 12-24 f/2 8 GM - sharper than every other zoom in that range, as well as most of the primes, including all the primes at the wider end of the range.

Sigma 35mm f/1.2 DN - best thing in that focal length range with autofocus. Just pips out the Canon 35mm.

Nikon 70-200 f/2.8 E - sharp corner-to-corner at every focal length, and fast-focusing. No competitor in its class, although Canon and Tamron have a significant size and weight advantage in the RF and the 70-180.

Sigma 105mm f/1.4 - super-sharp, great bokeh. Less of a cat's eye bokeh at the edges compared to the Nikon, so it gets the win, but at a huge penalty in weight.

Sony 135 f/1.8 - this thing's just super-sharp.

Canon 200mm f/2L - super-sharp, smooth bokeh and fast-focusing. A look you can't really replicate with any other lens.

Canon/Sony/Nikon 400mm f/2.8 - all the 400/2.8 lenses are super-sharp. Sony wins this one on weight, but image quality is near-identical among the top-end superteles.
Title: Re: Best lenses ever designed?
Post by: Petrus on November 18, 2020, 04:50:08 am
'Image quality' means absolutely nothing if it isn't the focal length you need, or if the lens can't actually AF fast enough to track a moving subject (for the focal lengths at which that is relevant).

Theoretically perfect manual-focus lenses are all well and good if you're shooting nonmoving subjects in a controlled environment, but are far less useful out in the field where subjects are moving and you can't reshoot at leisure.

Ah, well... In late seventies on Sunday evenings I sometimes had to shoot ice hockey, basketball and volleyball games all being played at the same time (taxicab was waiting outside with meter ticking) for the national newspaper I worked for. Motor drive at full speed 3 frames per second, Tri-X pushed to 800 ASA, full matte focusing glass. Auto focus????

I never failed to get the pictures expected of me.

Sorry for the interruption...
Title: Re: Best lenses ever designed?
Post by: KLaban on November 18, 2020, 05:05:08 am
I'm more attracted to lenses that are less than perfect: image qualities rather than image quality.
Title: Re: Best lenses ever designed?
Post by: vulture on November 18, 2020, 05:09:58 am
Zeiss Biotar 75 mm/ f 1.5 (second version 18 aperture blades)
Voigtländer 125 mm/ f 2.5
Title: Re: Best lenses ever designed?
Post by: budjames on November 18, 2020, 05:15:23 am
I have to add my vote for the current Leica Summilux 35mm ASPH FLE and APO Summicron 50mm.

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.
Title: Re: Best lenses ever designed?
Post by: KLaban on November 18, 2020, 05:48:18 am
I have to add my vote for the current Leica Summilux 35mm ASPH FLE and APO Summicron 50mm.

This is a case in point. I've used this lens extensively over many years and would describe it as a lens that displays distinct image qualities that can be used to advantage rather than a lens that renders perfectly.
Title: Re: Best lenses ever designed?
Post by: kers on November 18, 2020, 09:12:03 am
I do not have the knowledge nor enough use of many different lenses for choosing the best lenses ever designed.

I am with lenses as i am with cars, if i know them for some time and helped me to do something there is a kind of bond.
So i have a bond with a  then 10 years old Renault 4 i drove through the sahara with friends - an old peugeot 305 that i drove in Iceland and even got its gearbox repaired by a friendly Icelandic farmer.

One of may favourite photos i made with my own made lightweight balsawood 4x5 camera and a 58mm f5.6 Schneider Super Angulon XL. I took it on a hiking tour the Mont Blanc.
There is a beautiful gondola that goes from France to Italy over the mont blanc glacier. It traverses horizontal and has a spectacular view.
I took one shot handheld with my 4x 5 inch and it turned out to be a good one. I was lucky with the weather, the absense of vibration, the perfect lightning on my Provia 100 slide, and the people on the photo.
a special moment that everything worked out fine. The slide is sharp from corner to corner. yes - a very fine lens.



Title: Re: Best lenses ever designed?
Post by: [email protected] on November 18, 2020, 12:11:42 pm
Rodenstock HR Digaron-S 23/5.6
Rodenstock HR Digaron-W 32/4
Hasselblad Zeiss Distagon 40/4 IF
Schneider Apo Digitar L 72/5.6
Schneider (Phase One) 120/4 LS Macro

Regards,
Ben
Title: Re: Best lenses ever designed?
Post by: chez on November 18, 2020, 02:20:17 pm
Ah, well... In late seventies on Sunday evenings I sometimes had to shoot ice hockey, basketball and volleyball games all being played at the same time (taxicab was waiting outside with meter ticking) for the national newspaper I worked for. Motor drive at full speed 3 frames per second, Tri-X pushed to 800 ASA, full matte focusing glass. Auto focus????

I never failed to get the pictures expected of me.

Sorry for the interruption...

Expectations change over time. 8x10 or 11x14 were the big prints of the 70's...now they are throw away test prints for the ultimate 30x40 wall hangers.
Title: Re: Best lenses ever designed?
Post by: langier on November 19, 2020, 02:53:20 pm
The five best/favorites for me:

47mm f/8 Super-Angulon
50mm f/4 CFL Distagon
120mm f/4 Makro-Planar
180mm f/4 Sonnar
300mm f/2.8 Nikkor (any of them!)

However, a bunch of good-quality zoom lenses over the past 35 years have made the bulk of my income to pay for it all.
Title: Re: Best lenses ever designed?
Post by: jrp on November 20, 2020, 05:25:53 am
The Leica SL lens line gives me all that I need: sharp, and aberration-free. The fast mid-length Nikon teles are excellent. But I think that a lot of the newest mirrorless lenses for full frame / midi frame are as good as you need at this point.
Title: Re: Best lenses ever designed?
Post by: guido on November 20, 2020, 12:32:50 pm
Canon TS-E 50mm 2.8 L Macro
Title: Re: Best lenses ever designed?
Post by: BernardLanguillier on November 20, 2020, 07:08:29 pm
Many great inputs, thanks!

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Best lenses ever designed?
Post by: Petrus on November 25, 2020, 02:06:22 pm
Expectations change over time. 8x10 or 11x14 were the big prints of the 70's...now they are throw away test prints for the ultimate 30x40 wall hangers.

My post was about MF lenses suitable only for stationary objects. People who think that must be max 50 years old.

My photos were always sharp (enough for 3 columns at least...).  ;D
Title: Re: Best lenses ever designed?
Post by: Paul_Roark on November 28, 2020, 11:44:07 am
This is the best light weight, walk-about, fine art quality camera/lens I've tested or used, and DxO seems to agree -- the Sony RX1rii:

"

https://www.dxomark.com/sony-cyber-shot-rx1-carl-zeiss-sonnar-t-2-35-review-is-this-the-ultimate-moderate-wide-angle-lens/

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
Title: Re: Best lenses ever designed?
Post by: kers on November 29, 2020, 05:16:00 am
This is the best light weight, walk-about, fine art quality camera/lens I've tested or used, and DxO seems to agree -- the Sony RX1rii:

"
  • utstanding at f/2.8 and on, the Zeiss Sonnar T* 2/35 is likely to become a classic, against which all others are judged."


https://www.dxomark.com/sony-cyber-shot-rx1-carl-zeiss-sonnar-t-2-35-review-is-this-the-ultimate-moderate-wide-angle-lens/

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Indeed even 6 years later the sensor and lens are still among the best.
Title: Re: Best lenses ever designed?
Post by: Michael Erlewine on November 30, 2020, 05:10:37 am
To me, the best lenses depend on what kind of subject I am shooting. Here are five I use a lot, plus a few others that could easily be on the list.


Nikon APO Z 58mm Noct f/0.95 (best best)

APO El Nikkor 105mm f/5.6 (best style)

APO Rodenstock Geragon or Ronar 150mm f/9 (sharp)

Voigtlander 125mm APO-Lanthar f/2.5 (all around)

Nikkor-O “CRT” 55mm f/1.2 (sharp, useful)


Also useful:

Coastal Optics 60mm APO f/4 (color)

Schneider-Kreuznach APO Macro Varon 85mm f/4.5 (all around)

Leica  APO-Macro Elmarit-R 00mm f/2.8 (color, delicate)

Nikon Z 70-200mm f/2.8 (all around, sharp)

Printing APO Nikkors (95mm, 105mm, 150mm, f/2.8) Sharp

Zeiss Otus Series f/1.4 (55mm, 28mm) (all around great)

Title: Re: Best lenses ever designed?
Post by: Doug Peterson on November 30, 2020, 10:38:43 am
From our article on lenses for 150mp: http://phaseoneiq4.com/lenses-for-150-megapixels/

A++ Lenses
Rodenstock: 32HR, 50HR, 90HR-SW, 105HR
Schneider LS BR: 35, 45, 40-80, 120, 150, 240, 2x TC
Hassy H: 50 II, 120 II

Of course, as noted by many here, "Best" is a use-case and user-specific word. Our ratings were about optical quality and the ability to fully use a 150mp full-frame 645 sensor given the assumption that the lens met your practical concerns (e.g. weight, size, speed of AF if any, price, body compatibility etc).
Title: Re: Best lenses ever designed?
Post by: Paul_Roark on December 01, 2020, 01:00:26 pm
While I used to be a rather obsessive lens tester, I think the game has changed after Topaz's AI Gigapixel.  I'm not thrilled much by the other recent Topaz software, but AIG may make ultimate sharpness of the lens less important than "good enough to be sharpened by AIG" across the field at as many apertures (and focal lengths, if a zoom) as possible.  That is, once the lens reaches the level that AIG can sharpen it, extreme sharpness of the original optic becomes almost a moot point.  What AIG can't do is save, for example, soft corners of a mediocre optic. (And the soft "donuts" of even some Leica M optics that I have are a problem that can't be "fixed" completely.)

Before Topaz's AIG, I though "AI" was mostly hype.  No more.  I bought several prior alleged sharpening software packages and never found one that worked well enough to bother leaving my usual PS image editing environment.

Note that I put the AIG 2x image as a layer on top of a Photoshop 2x resampled layer so that I can soften or deal with artifacts.  Also, the raw conversion software sharpening needs to be at least cut in half to avoid AIG from sharpening halos.  That is, there is a bit of a learning curve to proper use of this software tool.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 
Title: Re: Best lenses ever designed?
Post by: hmb on December 21, 2020, 06:38:16 pm
Best lens I have used is the Zeiss Sonar f2/35 that is built into the Sony RX1.
Title: Re: Best lenses ever designed?
Post by: budjames on December 22, 2020, 08:53:48 am
My vote is for the Leica Summilux 35mm ASPH FLE and APO Summicron 50mm ASPH. I own them both and they are my goto lenses for travel and everyday shooting.

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto
Title: Re: Best lenses ever designed?
Post by: PeterAit on December 25, 2020, 04:58:08 pm
Questioner: "Who is the best wife you've ever had?"

Answerer: "I've only had one."

Questioner: "Then she's the best."
Title: Re: Best lenses ever designed?
Post by: kers on December 25, 2020, 07:46:36 pm
Questioner: "Who is the best wife you've ever had?"

Answerer: "I've only had one."

Questioner: "Then she's the best."
but was she 'the best woman ever designed?
Title: Re: Best lenses ever designed?
Post by: Paul_Roark on December 26, 2020, 11:41:11 am
My vote is for the Leica Summilux 35mm ASPH FLE and APO Summicron 50mm ASPH. I own them both and they are my goto lenses for travel and everyday shooting.

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto

I agree that the Leica APO Summicron 50mm ASPH is in the "best" category.  I use it with a Sony a7riv.  The Leica 75mm APO is right up there with it, and because of my shooting style, it's the one I use more than the 50 (but less than a 35mm).  The APO 75 stays on my Sony a7riv and also fits in the Sony camera case (made by a third party seller).  That said, in most real world displays, the little Sony RX1r frame, after doubling its resolution in Topaz AIG, is essentially indistinguishable from the Leica 75, and the ability to just have a small belt pouch with the RX1 in it is just too inviting.  (The Sony a7r with APO 75 is not exactly light.)

I have no connection with Topaz and am not impressed with most of their offerings, but that Gigapixel AI up-res'ing algorithm is a real winner that has the potential to have a major impact on our photo decisions and practices, particularly for hikers and landscape shooters.  I hope we see other companies start to focus on the software end of the process with a bit more innovation than I'm seeing come from Adobe recently.

Also, very nice shots, Bud.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Title: Re: Best lenses ever designed?
Post by: BernardLanguillier on December 26, 2020, 06:25:42 pm
Hi Paul,

Have you trued using the Topaz upres AI thing in combination with noise reduction software?

If you have I’d be interested in your optimal workflow.

Thanks.

And yes, the Leica 75mm f1.25 is definitely in the short list!

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Best lenses ever designed?
Post by: Paul_Roark on December 27, 2020, 11:38:31 am
Hi Paul,

Have you trued using the Topaz upres AI thing in combination with noise reduction software?

...


Gigapixel AI used at 2x expansion of pixels seems to be the best of the entire family of Topaz's recent offerings.  While it sharpens the details, it also reduces the grain, most noticeably in the sky.

Topaz's "DeNoise AI" also earned a shortcut on my desktop, but I'm finding it less easy to control.  It seems to be overkill for most of my files.  On my "to do" list is to see if I can use it to tame the grain in my old film shots, but so far I have not found the combination that brings those old shots up to what we now expect.  I'm not saying it can't, but I think there is going to be a learning curve relating to the settings and other workflow parameters; and I have not yet had the time to focus on it. Gig AI, on the other hand, seems to be very good at its default settings, at least for my more modern digital files, and it seem to be excellent with one minor setting change when I originally open the raw file, noted below.

One important thing to keep in mind with Gigapixel AI is to reduce to (usually to 20 v. the default 40) the sharpening in the PS raw conversion of the file.  Otherwise you get very nice and sharp halos!  Not good.

Halo-free sharpening is an important new capability we get with Gigapixel AI. 

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
Title: Re: Best lenses ever designed?
Post by: BernardLanguillier on December 27, 2020, 05:55:50 pm
Thanks a lot Paul.
Title: Re: Best lenses ever designed?
Post by: Paul_Roark on December 28, 2020, 11:32:36 am
Just to modify slightly my last post, on many good digital files, I turn the sharpening in the raw conversion off entirely to avoid halos.  Gig AI sharpened halos are the enemy.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
Title: Re: Best lenses ever designed?
Post by: the_luminous_french on December 30, 2020, 02:14:22 am
Canon TS-E 50mm 2.8 L Macro
Fuji gfx 110
Schneider digitar 72

a perfect lens ?
No distortion
sharp wide open
Nice bokeh
Excellent flare resistance
no field curvature
large aperture
light
solid
tilt and shift

but life is a compromise !