Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Computers & Peripherals => Topic started by: kers on November 11, 2020, 07:07:40 am
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Apple just launched their first Apple Silicon macs with the first M1 desktop processor.
It is a major change for Apple, the last time was in 2006 when they moved from IBM to Intel.
Anandtech has an in depth article on the A14 chip that they think will be at the base of the M1.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/16226/apple-silicon-m1-a14-deep-dive
Some of the things they say:
Apple already is capable to make a chip as fast as the fastest current chip from Intel or AMD.
At the same time they need less energy to reach that goal.
Apples chips in the iphone made a 200% jump in performance during the last 5 years, while Intel made only a 28% jump.
Because of that Apple had simply no other option then to start using their own chips, or stay behind ( or go to AMD)
I foresee a big future for Apple produced chips - also for use in servercentra.
for us it is more a matter of how well non-Apple-software will run on it in emulation, during the first period.
And there will be glitches; i already read only one supported external screen can be attached...16gb ram internally.
In a few years it will be a mature system - the same with Big Sur.
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Man, I hope it's at least a few years. I just dropped 3000 on a souped up trashcan, and I'd like my money's worth before Adobe starts ignoring the old chips.
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It's been a multi-year process that's been going for a while. The move to 64bit only apps - Catalina - was the first step. By forcing folks to either stay where they are with their working apps or upgrade their apps to support the OS path, Apple has the ability to spread the disappointment out over a long term. The other option was to announce a new Mac that doesn't run any of your existing stuff.
It will be good to see how far they can push the A14/M1 platform, but I have concerns on the larger side of things - the new Mac Pro's are a 5 year investment so I would expect them to maintain the support they currently for a long time. Given that I don't expect a 16/32core M1 series processor, the platform will be as cpu agnostic as possible.
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Well they have said they will support Intel based macs for years to come. My guess is the trashcan will at least be supported another 3-5 years.
about cores; the A14 chip is champion in dealing with many instructionsets at the same time.
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One problem that jumps out me with all three of these new models is they are limited to a max of 16 GB of RAM. Guess there’s no new ARM Mac in my immediate future.
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It's worth noting that Apple started by putting the M1 chip in their lowest performing machines in their lineup: the macbook air, the 2-port macbook pro, and the mac mini. None of these machines were ever positioned in the market to be speed demons or to be hot-rodded with tons of ram.... except maybe the mini.
Personally I'm expecting another round of laptop updates in 6-12 months with something like an M1X (or M2X?) for their 4-port 13" MBP and 16" MBP that will have 32-64 GB of ram on the chip and more CPU/GPU cores. I expect the mini to then be configurable with this chip as well, since the old intel mini could be spec'd with up to 64gb of ram and the new M1 mini is absolutely crippled at 16gb.
I also expect at least one more chip that isn't designed for power-constrained or thermally-constrained environments. We'll see that in the iMac and Mac Pro. And it could be up to 2 years away still, so that could be an M3 generation at that point, if they do annual improvements like they do with their mobile chips.
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"In comparison to Macs, the single-core performance is better than any other available Mac, and the multi-core performance beats out all of the 2019 16-inch MacBook Pro models, including the 10th-generation high-end 2.4GHz Intel Core i9 model."
https://www.macrumors.com/2020/11/11/m1-macbook-air-first-benchmark/
Not too shabby for the bottom of the range model! No doubt more powerful versions with more RAM will be seen in higher end models in due course. This is only a Geekbench score so we will have to wait to see how actual real life operations perform but it is certainly an encouraging start!
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Non Apple software running through emulation might give problems;
here the message from Adobe about compatibility of photoshop
https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/kb/photoshop-and-macos-big-sur.html
Photohop version 22 runs emulated - with some problems like no ACR support at the moment
a native version is expected in 2021
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Non Apple software running through emulation might give problems;
here the message from Adobe about compatibility of photoshop
https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/kb/photoshop-and-macos-big-sur.html
Photohop version 22 runs emulated - with some problems like no ACR support at the moment
a native version is expected in 2021
Adobe's on top of the new chip, all I can say is, stay tuned a bit longer.
Now, should you rush out for the new chip due to PS/LR? I wouldn't for many reasons.
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Oh i agree- i usually wait one year after Apple introducing a new OS, now they introduce a really new OS and a new chips to support.
Might take two years to get it working as it should.
But it is very interesting to see what can be the result of this new chip, OS and programs all made by one company.
You would suspect a perfect match.
For photoshop, my current software and printer support I stay at Mojave for the next 4 years... i think.
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I've never understood the need to be first out the door with a new OS or new chipset. Are there some sort of bragging rights to being the first to download the new whatever and then deal with all the glitches, major and minor that are almost guaranteed with any major change? Among photographers, who can see any upside to spending large amounts of money on a machine with only 16GB of RAM? Given the potential downside risks of the new OS and chips, I invested in an Intel 2020 iMac that I hope and expect will keep me going until Apple and Adobe have sorted things out. I have no doubt that it will be fine in the long run but how long that will take is an unknown.
I wish only the best to these early adopters but given the problems that sometimes pop up even with long established systems, I'm sticking with my current plan. I only wish I could be running Mojave on my 2020 iMac.
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Gotta say, I'm so far much happier with Big Sur than Catalina.
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Gotta say, I'm so far much happier with Big Sur than Catalina.
That's interesting, Andrew. What do you find to be better? No issues with printing or colour management? LR/PS/Epson drivers working OK?
In days gone by, I'd have been the first to have installed a new OS (I'd probably have been running the beta), but old age has brought caution.
Jeremy
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Seems faster, especially Safari, nice on the eyes (GUI).
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I think another factor of Big Sur over Catalina is that Big Sur in now a full-release, MacOX 11, not a 10.x as was Catalina, the last or of the now nearly 20 year evolution that took the Mac from the old RISC architecture on the G-series chips into Intel and now back to Apple silicon.
It's come a long way and the journey will soon start anew...
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My 3880 prints correctly using color management in Big Sur with the older driver that worked under Catalina. Tested in Photoshop. So that's all good. Will have to try the P800 next but I suspect it will be fine, the 3880 driver hasn't been updated in awhile.
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Good to know, Andrew. Thanks. It's reasonably likely that my aged 3800 will continue to function as well, I'd guess.
Jeremy
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I don't think the 16GB is a problem for my usage. The most demanding scenario I run is Lightroom Classic CC + Affinity Photo. This now runs on a 2019 MacBook Pro with 8GB of RAM. It is not as quick as on the Windows beast I ran it before (Ryzen 7 8C, 32GB RAM) but surprisingly good and smooth since I did a fresh OS install with Big Sur. It is great as it is, really.
Based on this, I'd expect an M1 with 16GB RAM and its super fast SSD to be all I need for several years.
Incidentally, the 3 Mac models they converted to M1 make more than 90% of Mac sales volumes. So it is not a prudent step they took last week. They actually went almost all in. From a sales volume perspective, the transition is already almost complete.
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FWIW P800 prints without issue on Big Sur with driver that also worked under Catalina.
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Beta PS is now available for the M1 chipped Macs
https://feedback.photoshop.com/conversations/photoshop-beta/photoshop-for-mac-arm-is-here/5fb359d3ca9d527a59c4677e
Also for the ARM based Microsoft device(s?)
https://feedback.photoshop.com/conversations/photoshop-beta/photoshop-for-windows-arm-is-here/5fb3584b38150f55db64b1e4
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A number of articles on the new Apple Silicon Macs are now appearing on tech sites. My reading is that the chip provides impressive performance with substantially improved power efficiency (relevant to mobile systems) vs. existing competitors (Intel, AMD).
Here are links to a couple of recent ones:
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/11/hands-on-with-the-apple-m1-a-seriously-fast-x86-competitor/?comments=1&start=120
https://techcrunch.com/2020/11/17/yeah-apples-m1-macbook-pro-is-powerful-but-its-the-battery-life-that-will-blow-you-away/
(quote from this site: "
This is where Apple is in the game of power being played by the chip industry. And it’s about to be endgame for Intel."
In one of the benchmarks from the techcrunch site (Xcode unzip), the M1 Mac mini outperformed all other systems tested in the group, including (by 2x) the 2019 Mac Pro.
The future of this system looks interesting.
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Performance is very enticing. I saw a video where a wedding photographer was going through dozens of pictures with Lightroom at the speed of Photo Mechanics. And it was an 8GB machine.
However, until there is a port of i1Profiler or DisplayCal that works on M1, Apple Silicon is useless for photo editing.
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Performance is very enticing. I saw a video where a wedding photographer was going through dozens of pictures with Lightroom at the speed of Photo Mechanics.
Interesting considering LR isn't running native on that chip yet.
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However, until there is a port of i1Profiler or DisplayCal that works on M1, Apple Silicon is useless for photo editing.
What is preventing them running through Rosetta?
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What is preventing them running through Rosetta?
AFAIK, nothing.
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SpyderX (and also Spyder5) will work properly on M1 systems under Intel emulation, using the latest Big Sur-compatible releases of Spyder software from November 2020.
SpyderCheckr and SpyderPRINT, the latest releases from November 2020, likewise work properly on M1 systems under Intel emulation.
Performance is excellent - a couple of extra bounces on the first launch, and instant launches after that. Calibration works as usual and it's a snap. User interfaces run fast and seamless. Intel "emulation" is actually Rosetta2 translating the entirety of the applications and their components, internal plugin code, etc. from Intel to Apple Silicon/ARM and it's the fully translated executables that run after that. (This is why for the vast majority of typical consumer applications, running Intel versions for now, before they're eventually rebuilt to include Apple Silicon code in a Universal build, will run just as quickly, and sometimes even more quickly, than they do on older, and often more expensive Intel Apple Macs.)
There's a small bug in Big Sur itself on M1 hardware only (it's fine on Big Sur/Intel) in which Big Sur isn't returning default names for the attached displays. Spyder display calibration software works around this by defaulting to a hard-coded "UNKNOWN-X". This can simply be over-typed by the user and named anything they want ("Macbook Pro LCD", "Color LCD", etc) and then that name is remembered by the software after that. But this doesn't get in the way of calibration or anything else that happens afterward.
The biggest potential issue with these initial M1 systems in general is lack of support for more than 2 displays per system. For laptops: it's just the built in display and one external; clamshell mode doesn't allow it to run 2 externals, as can be done with an M1 Mac Mini. The "workaround" that's been going around is to use DisplayMate adapters to generate additional software-based extensions to external displays over USB. (I'd used an older DisplayMate to do this years ago). However, I don't recall of these can be color managed and calibrated; if not, they'd be accessory displays only, but not something to use for actual photo editing. Apple's SideCar feature can also be used to run an iPad as an extra display (but again - likely not color managed).
David Miller
Manager/Lead Developer, Consumer Graphics Software
Datacolor
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Not that anyone asked.... ;D Software that matters in terms of the new chip, if you have that hardware, when you open Adobe CC app, it will detect this hardware and provide a way to download a public beta of a fully native version of Photoshop. A product that could use excellent performance you'll likely be using. NOT all features will work at this time but most will. Again, you only see this option on a Mac with the actual new chipset on the Adobe Creative Cloud app for download.
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Andrew, I am currently testing an M1 MBP. Thanks for the heads-up about the Adobe beta option! On its way down.
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Abobe released a new version of PS for M1 today
https://blog.adobe.com/en/publish/2021/03/10/adobe-photoshop-ships-on-macs-with-apple-silicon-gains-speedier-selections-filters-and-performance-boosts.html#gs.v8om1j
"Starting today, Photoshop runs natively on Macs powered by the M1 chip and takes advantage of the performance improvements built into this new architecture. Our internal tests show a wide range of features running an average of 1.5X the speed of similarly configured previous generation systems." ...
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Any word on X-Rite i1 Display Pro on a Apple M1? Taking delivery of a M1 Mac Mini tomorrow. What I've been reading there's a problem with the software not detecting the monitor. Is this still an issue?
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Any word on X-Rite i1 Display Pro on a Apple M1? Taking delivery of a M1 Mac Mini tomorrow. What I've been reading there's a problem with the software not detecting the monitor. Is this still an issue?
Yes, so far as I know. X-rite have committed to a resolution in Q1 of 2021 but no news as yet. However, I’ve read that an alternative, displaycal, can be got to work after a fashion by using a new beta of the argyll software it’s built on. Details in displaycal’s forums.
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Yes, so far as I know. X-rite have committed to a resolution in Q1 of 2021 but no news as yet. However, I’ve read that an alternative, displaycal, can be got to work after a fashion by using a new beta of the argyll software it’s built on. Details in displaycal’s forums.
Thanks! I'll check it out.
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X-Rite say they have now updated their i1Profiler calibration software to work with the new M1 Macs. See here, or visit their site for a nearer server:
https://support.xritephoto.eu/software-downloads/ (https://support.xritephoto.eu/software-downloads/)
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More Apple "M" chip goodness to come
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/apple-planning-macbook-pro-with-16-core-gpu-mac-pro-with-128-gpu-cores/
"Apple plans to introduce significantly updated versions of the MacBook Pro, MacBook Air, Mac mini, iMac, and Mac Pro, according to a new report in Bloomberg citing people familiar with Apple's plans. The report shares much more detail about these machines than we've previously been privy to.
Each of the new computers will include a substantially faster successor to the M1 chip. Bloomberg's sources say the MacBook Pro, which is expected to come in 14-inch and 16-inch variants, could launch as soon as this summer. That suggests Apple may announce the computers at its annual developer conference in early June.
A totally redesigned MacBook Air will follow, as will an updated version of the low-end Mac mini, which still uses Intel processors. A new 30-inch iMac will replace the current 27-inch Intel model.
Finally, an Apple Silicon version of the Mac Pro desktop is planned for 2022.
The new machines appear tailor-made to address criticisms of recent Intel Macs and the initial volley of Apple Silicon machines. To wit, the maximum amount of RAM supported by these new chips will be 64GB (up from 16GB in the M1), more than two Thunderbolt ports will be supported, and the new laptops will feature HDMI and SD card slots. That last addition addresses a complaint many users have had about the MacBook Pro for some time now.
..."
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More Apple "M" chip goodness to come
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/apple-planning-macbook-pro-with-16-core-gpu-mac-pro-with-128-gpu-cores/
"Apple plans to introduce significantly updated versions of the MacBook Pro, MacBook Air, Mac mini, iMac, and Mac Pro, according to a new report in Bloomberg citing people familiar with Apple's plans. The report shares much more detail about these machines than we've previously been privy to.
Each of the new computers will include a substantially faster successor to the M1 chip. Bloomberg's sources say the MacBook Pro, which is expected to come in 14-inch and 16-inch variants, could launch as soon as this summer. That suggests Apple may announce the computers at its annual developer conference in early June.
A totally redesigned MacBook Air will follow, as will an updated version of the low-end Mac mini, which still uses Intel processors. A new 30-inch iMac will replace the current 27-inch Intel model.
Finally, an Apple Silicon version of the Mac Pro desktop is planned for 2022.
The new machines appear tailor-made to address criticisms of recent Intel Macs and the initial volley of Apple Silicon machines. To wit, the maximum amount of RAM supported by these new chips will be 64GB (up from 16GB in the M1), more than two Thunderbolt ports will be supported, and the new laptops will feature HDMI and SD card slots. That last addition addresses a complaint many users have had about the MacBook Pro for some time now.
..."
Interesting! It can't come soon enough. I had the M1 Macbook Air in my cart yesterday ;)
I have to give my current windows laptop to one of my kids and I need a replacement, with M1 being the best bang to do some postprocessing on the side. I would however have a larger Pro to be used as a desktop replacement too if possible, I'm mostly just taking my iPad when traveling. No immediate need but not sure I can wait for another half a year though.
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May want to check this out:
https://9to5mac.com/2021/05/21/2021-macbook-pro-models-m1x-no-logo/
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May want to check this out:
https://9to5mac.com/2021/05/21/2021-macbook-pro-models-m1x-no-logo/
Thanks!
Rumor has it that they'll announce stuff at their next meeting on June 7, so I'll wait until then to make a final decision.
Truth being told, outside of more storage (fixable) the main thing that I would like from the M1 stuff is support for 2 monitors, which is not a deal breaker but I would like to have it.