Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Colour Management => Topic started by: Alan Klein on May 03, 2020, 07:22:40 pm
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Unit came with X-rite i1 Scanner profile software. I can't find the Reference files in Product data to match the color transparency. Has anyone set this up? I trying to use it with the Epsonscan software which it's suppose to work with as well as the also furnished Silverfast scan software. I scanned the 4x5 transparency furnished by X-rite using Epsonscan flat, no scan adjustments. The transparency is labelled IT8, 7/1-1993 MONT45:2019:03. But when I look in their Program Data files, it isn't there. Any help would be appreciated.
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You got the 4x5 where?
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It came with the Epson V850 Pro.
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The transparency which is 4x5 is labelled IT8, 7/1-1993 Mont45:2019:03. But it isn't in the Windows Program Data folder in X-rite folder. There are a bunch of others, but not this one. Also, there is no similar file for the Reflective color print which is labelled, IT8: 7/2-1993 MONR 2019:02-1 Version 2. There's also a note in the X-rite software box that says to use Version 2 for Epson Scan and not ICC Profile 4.
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This is the transparency. I scanned in flat with no adjustment to the V850. It's saved in my computer as a tiff as recommended although this is the jpeg.
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It came with the Epson V850 Pro.
With SliverFast?
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Yes. It has Silverfast. But I'm using Epsonscan and it's suppose to work with that too. There's a note that refers to Epson Scan in my earlier post. MAybe there's a problem with how i loaded the X-rite software. After it loaded from the CD that came with the V850, it said there's a later version to download which I did. Maybe I shouldn't have. I could try to uninstall it and start over?
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Yes. It has Silverfast. But I'm using Epsonscan and it's suppose to work with that too. There's a note that refers to Epson Scan in my earlier post. MAybe there's a problem with how i loaded the X-rite software. After it loaded from the CD that came with the V850, it said there's a later version to download which I did. Maybe I shouldn't have. I could try to uninstall it and start over?
You get the TDF for that target FROM Lasersoft.
https://www.silverfast.com/it8calibration/en.html
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Bear with me, I'm confused. can I get the associate file to the trasnparency from Lasersoft snd still use Epsonscan software rather than Silverfast? Also, there is a bar code but it's not on the color trasnparency but rather on the glassine that holds it. So it doesn't appear on the transparency jpeg I posted here. Under the bar is the following: *411313405*
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Get the TDF, build profile with Silverfast. Use it outside of Silverfast? Maybe. Maybe not.
You want to be using Silverfast....
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Get the TDF, build profile with Silverfast. Use it outside of Silverfast? Maybe. Maybe not.
You want to be using Silverfast....
Silverfast was my next project to try. But I've been using Epsonscan for years. I wanted to try profiler with that since I have so many medium format film shots that I scanned that I could try again. By the way, I'scanned the color trasnparency furnished flat. Somewhere I read to not use auto and color adjustments just keeping the level above 0 and below 255. When you scan flat on the Epson, everything gets grayed out. So I hope that's OK. When I looked at an instruction video, her monitor of the colors looked pretty dark like mine did. Is that the right approach?
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PS I went to the Silverfast site and can't find the file to match the info on the transparency or the reflective photo. SO how would it work with Silverfast? Silverfast says if the bar code is there, it would automatically look for the associate color file.
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Maybe this is wrong, but there is a web link provided on the target for the reference file that you need. It does not appear to be a Silverfast target.
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OK I found the file on the X-rite site and created the ICC profile. It is saved in C:windows\system32\spool\drivers\color. So it's in there. So now how do I link that up so the profile is used when I scan with Epson scan? Also, do I use the profile with my NEC PA242W monitor?
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Your transparency reference is not from SilverFast, it has a different patch structure on the very right side compared to SF ones. So, no doubt you could not find it.
According to theory, you should:
1) scan your target with all color management/manipulation off (in my V500 driver it is under "Configuration" button --> "No color correction")
2) do the profiling with X-Rite or any other software,
3) scan your other transparencies with the same settings
4) e.g. in PS do "Assign profile" to the scanned image with the profile created (NOT "Convert to profile"!!!).
Your monitor profile is in a different color management path and has nothing in common with scanner profile. Monitor should be profiled/calibrated separately.
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OK I found the file on the X-rite site and created the ICC profile. It is saved in C:windows\system32\spool\drivers\color. So it's in there. So now how do I link that up so the profile is used when I scan with Epson scan? Also, do I use the profile with my NEC PA242W monitor?
Did you buy the Spectraview kit when you got the monitor ?
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The V850 comes with SilverFast SE Plus. You need to upgrade to SF 8 Ai. Then you will have the full power and functionality. Profiling the scanner is a 1 click process and it will put the profile in its proper place. When you do your next prescan you will see the profile at the bottom of the GUI.
You do not assign the profile in PS. It is used to adjust the colors the scanner is reporting to the known values of the target.
SF is the gold standard.
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Did you buy the Spectraview kit when you got the monitor ?
Yes.
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The V850 comes with SilverFast SE Plus. You need to upgrade to SF 8 Ai. Then you will have the full power and functionality. Profiling the scanner is a 1 click process and it will put the profile in its proper place. When you do your next prescan you will see the profile at the bottom of the GUI.
You do not assign the profile in PS. It is used to adjust the colors the scanner is reporting to the known values of the target.
SF is the gold standard.
How do I get it to work with Epson Scan?
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Your transparency reference is not from SilverFast, it has a different patch structure on the very right side compared to SF ones. So, no doubt you could not find it.
According to theory, you should:
1) scan your target with all color management/manipulation off (in my V500 driver it is under "Configuration" button --> "No color correction")
2) do the profiling with X-Rite or any other software,
3) scan your other transparencies with the same settings
4) e.g. in PS do "Assign profile" to the scanned image with the profile created (NOT "Convert to profile"!!!).
Your monitor profile is in a different color management path and has nothing in common with scanner profile. Monitor should be profiled/calibrated separately.
I don't have PS. I use Lightroom 6 (purchased) and Photoshop Elements 2020.
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The transparency which is 4x5 is labelled IT8, 7/1-1993 Mont45:2019:03. But it isn't in the Windows Program Data folder in X-rite folder. There are a bunch of others, but not this one. Also, there is no similar file for the Reflective color print which is labelled, IT8: 7/2-1993 MONR 2019:02-1 Version 2. There's also a note in the X-rite software box that says to use Version 2 for Epson Scan and not ICC Profile 4.
I got the files from X-rite.
The first is for the transparencies. The second is for reflective prints.
But I still need help getting everything to work with Epsonscan. See my posts above if you can help.
MONT
https://www.xrite.com/service-support/downloads/m/monaco_it8_4x5_ref_files_2007_current
MONR
https://www.xrite.com/service-support/downloads/m/monaco_it8_5x7_ref_files_2007_current
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Yes.
Then follow the directions included with Spectraview to do the monitor calibration.
There are also numerous posts in this subforum over the years that may help. i recall there was at least one tutorial on the main website.
Just make sure you are running the latest version.
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Then follow the directions included with Spectraview to do the monitor calibration.
There are also numerous posts in this subforum over the years that may help. i recall there was at least one tutorial on the main website.
Just make sure you are running the latest version.
Calibrate the monitor to what?
Also I get this now when I open Spectraview II since I installed the x-Rite i1 scanner profile. See picture below. What does it mean?
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Calibrate the monitor to what?
To a CCT (correlated color temperature) and brightness that best matches your prints as viewed in your digital darkroom illumination. You can have different calibration sets for different papers/printers and even illuminations, if you wanted to.
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Calibrate the monitor to what?
Why are my prints too dark?
A video update to a written piece on subject from 2013
In this 24 minute video, I'll cover:
Are your prints really too dark?
Display calibration and WYSIWYG
Proper print viewing conditions
Trouble shooting to get a match
Avoiding kludges that don't solve the problem
High resolution: http://digitaldog.net/files/Why_are_my_prints_too_dark.mp4
Low resolution: https://youtu.be/iS6sjZmxjY4
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Sorry if I confused people here. My fault. This thread is not about calibrating the monitor for printing. Rather, it's about using a color profile for the scanner to improve the scan process of color film, both positive and negatives. So to bring it up to date where I am:
First I was able to get the color profiles in ICC for both transparencies and reflective prints. I used X-rite 11 Scanner software to do that. Both the profile are saved in C:windows\system32\spool\drivers\color.
Now I want to be able to use those profiles when I scan with my EPson 850 Pro scanner so the colors are adjusted properly. I understand that you can use Silverfast scan software, which I have but have never used before. But for now, I want to get the profiles to work with EPson Scan software when I scan since I've used Epsonscan for years. I'm most familiar with it. How do I use the ICC color profiles in conjunction with Epsonscan to make my color scans better?
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You do know that all bets are off if your monitor isn't properly calibrated, right?
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You do know that all bets are off if your monitor isn't properly calibrated, right?
Frans Yes I calibrate my monitor. Currently to sRGB. But what does that have to do with the scanner? How does the ICC profile work in conjunction with the scanner? Currently, when I scan I do adjustment manually either before the scan using Epsonscan or after the scan using Elements or Lightroom. So how does the color profile improve the process?
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What does the Spectraview II alert mean? How should I handle it? Yes or No and when?
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Notice in Epsonscan when I go to scan, I get this advisory indicating Embed ICC Profile ON. What does it mean? What ICC profile is it?
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What does the Spectraview II alert mean? How should I handle it? Yes or No and when?
In this case, both softwares, i1Profiler and SpectraView, try to use the connected measuring device simultanuously. As only one of them can, you say yes - so i1Profiler releases the device and SpectraView can use it.
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Frans Yes I calibrate my monitor. Currently to sRGB. But what does that have to do with the scanner? How does the ICC profile work in conjunction with the scanner? Currently, when I scan I do adjustment manually either before the scan using Epsonscan or after the scan using Elements or Lightroom. So how does the color profile improve the process?
I don't know what that has to do with the scanner, but when you do adjustments, how do you evaluate those changes? By looking at your monitor? Just saying.
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Notice in Epsonscan when I go to scan, I get this advisory indicating Embed ICC Profile ON. What does it mean?
It means the ICC profile IS EMBEDDED (and why anyone wouldn't embed a profile is beyond me).
But seriously do you know have the darn manual for the scanner software you're using? RTFM. You say you've been using it, so this shouldn't be anything new to be concerned with.
I give up. Time to turn notifications off.
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Notice in Epsonscan when I go to scan, I get this advisory indicating Embed ICC Profile ON. What does it mean? What ICC profile is it?
Alan, when you click on "Configuration..." (at the bottom of the program window) you can choose "EPSON(C), "ICM" or "No color correction". When you choose "ICM" (which would be the logical solution for us color management savvy guys ;) ) Epson Scan saves the file with a specific profile called "Epson sRGB". This it is not the profile you produced with X-rite software!
So, you want to choose "No color correction" here. Thus all color sliders/buttons get greyed out and you scan a "flat" file. If you owned Photoshop, you would then open the file there and assign the proper ICC profile. BUT - no Photoshop, so you run into a dead-end: AFAIK neither Lightroom nor Elements can assign a profile :-/
Conclusion: You really want to use Silverfast.
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I don't know what that has to do with the scanner, but when you do adjustments, how do you evaluate those changes? By looking at your monitor? Just saying.
Frans: Yes. My monitor is calibrated to sRGB Emulation. I have been adjusting by my eye. https://www.flickr.com/photos/alanklein2000/albums
I'm not trying to match original film. If it looks good to my eyes, then it should look to others. I use sRGB Emulation since I post my shots on the web. I'm not printing at this time and no longer have a printer. The reason I'm looking for a profile and a color calibration for the scanner process, I thought it would help me get to roughly what the colors are. Especially with color negatives which can be frustrating sometimes.
Thanks for your input.
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It means the ICC profile IS EMBEDDED (and why anyone wouldn't embed a profile is beyond me).
But seriously do you know have the darn manual for the scanner software you're using? RTFM. You say you've been using it, so this shouldn't be anything new to be concerned with.
I give up. Time to turn notifications off.
I never used or understood ICC profiles before. It's all new to me so your help is appreciated. Embed ICC profile has always been on. It's the default setting. The Manual for the scanner says the following: TIFF: File format created for exchanging data among many applications such as graphic and DTP software. You can specify the compression type. You can add ICC profile (information on color reproducibility of scanned image) to the image.
What does that mean?
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Alan, when you click on "Configuration..." (at the bottom of the program window) you can choose "EPSON(C), "ICM" or "No color correction". When you choose "ICM" (which would be the logical solution for us color management savvy guys ;) ) Epson Scan saves the file with a specific profile called "Epson sRGB". This it is not the profile you produced with X-rite software!
So, you want to choose "No color correction" here. Thus all color sliders/buttons get greyed out and you scan a "flat" file. If you owned Photoshop, you would then open the file there and assign the proper ICC profile. BUT - no Photoshop, so you run into a dead-end: AFAIK neither Lightroom nor Elements can assign a profile :-/
Conclusion: You really want to use Silverfast.
That's a bummer. So I went through all this for nothing. So let's say I used the ICM Epson sRGB setting. What happens? Does the scanner embed the sRGB seting in the file? If so, how would I use this or can;t I in Lightroom or Elements?
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Here's an idea I just thought of. What if I adjusted the flat scan of the transparency I got from X-rite so that the results on my calibrated monitor matches closely to the transparency illuminated by a 5000K LED back light panel. Could I apply the same manual adjustments then to any scan to approximate proper colors? In doesn;t seem likely since every chrome is different. But then how does an ICC profile work in PS? It also doesn;t know what the original shot looked like.
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So let's say I used the ICM Epson sRGB setting. What happens? Does the scanner embed the sRGB seting in the file? If so, how would I use this or can;t I in Lightroom or Elements?
Yes, the software Epson Scan embeds the profile „Epson sRGB“ into the saved file. But as this is a general profile, it won‘t be of much use.
As it seems that you want to stick with Epson Scan, I‘d recommand setting „Configuration...“ to „No color correction“, thus producing flat TIF-files, opening those in Lightroom and doing all corrections there.
Here's an idea I just thought of. What if I adjusted the flat scan of the transparency I got from X-rite so that the results on my calibrated monitor matches closely to the transparency illuminated by a 5000K LED back light panel. Could I apply the same manual adjustments then to any scan to approximate proper colors? In doesn;t seem likely since every chrome is different.
Why not doing it visually, as with Epson Scan (and without Photoshop) I don't see how to get a more colorimetrical correct result. Later you can define presets in Lightroom as soon as you found out what corrections need to be made for different scans (E6 film types, flatbed,...). Starting with the x-rite target as your first scan is ok, but you will make your final judgements on real world images, so I would not spend too much time trying to hit it perfectly.
But then how does an ICC profile work in PS? It also doesn;t know what the original shot looked like.
If you want to steal a glance at a copy of „Real World Colormanagement“, this drastically increases one‘s understanding of ICC profiles etc. Recommended reading.
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OK Thanks all.
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Alan,
There are very good tutorials on how to setup Silverfast, do scanner calibration, use icc profiles, and how to scan with it to produce quality files. There are some here on LuLa on the main site. Mark even wrote a user guide book that walks you through it all. We all went through the experience.
The worst thing you can do is take a scattershot approach. That will get you nothing but frustration. This takes very deliberate steps to execute and learn the process. Once you get that down, it usually flows easily and reliably.
If you only want to scan for the web, EpsonScan will likely be good enough. If you want more than that, invest the time to learn the procedures with Silverfast and some of the colour science behind making a quality scan from whatever media you have. Scanning and lightroom or photoshop don’t work miracles with poor photos or prints, but they can get get you something usable.
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The V850 comes with Silverfast SE Plus 8. Do I have to upgrade it? Does SE Plus 8 include Negafix to match the various films? Is Negafix for only negatives or does it include chromes? What is the relationship between the scan I did of the furnished positive to create the ICC profile with Negafix?
With Epsonscan I found that scanning flat without no color,correction would be OK. Then someone said I should set the levels (black and white points) to each side of the histogram and set the output to 0-255. Then scan with no other adjustments. Their argument for this is you get better spread of the bits in the file before suing it with your post editing program. While I've done it, I've never been convinced this really is doing anything more that a little post processing itself with Epsonscan. What do you think?
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Then someone said I should set the levels (black and white points) to each side of the histogram and set the output to 0-255. Then scan with no other adjustments. Their argument for this is you get better spread of the bits in the file before suing it with your post editing program. While I've done it, I've never been convinced this really is doing anything more that a little post processing itself with Epsonscan. What do you think?
My research on V750 (different light, but basically technically the same) arised that this devices are NOT able to change the lighting or the sensitivity of it's CCDs. So everything except flat scanning is post pro, as you say.
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Alan,
SilverFast web site shows that SF SE 8 Plus has NegaFix but does not have Auto IT-8 calibration. You calibrate the scanner so it will give you more accurate colors. Just like you do for your monitor. There is no ICC to pass on with the file. You can embed a color space, sRGB, ARGB, etc.
Talk about flat scans or no adjustments is rather useless. You want to get the best scan and that requires using the scan software tools. At a minimum you set a neutral white point. I set mine at about 242 so there is head room to increase it in LR which does it in a more intelligent way protecting against blow out. The first adjustment I do is to click ACC, [automatic color correction] and that sets my desired white point and removes color cast in the bright levels. This must be set up in the Preferences as to how ACC will work. The default setting will work but give a higher white than I want.
I set a neutral black point manually in the Histogram Tool, [SF speak for Levels]. You do this for each RGB channel.
If this is all you do you will have a good scan. But I will use the color correction tools to fix issues in the mid tones.
NegaFix works like magic. If you know what film you have you just choose that profile. Otherwise you try different profiles till you find one that does well.
If you upgrade to SF 8 Ai I can share my preferences. This is the most confusing part for most learners IMHO.
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Alan,
SilverFast web site shows that SF SE 8 Plus has NegaFix but does not have Auto IT-8 calibration. You calibrate the scanner so it will give you more accurate colors. Just like you do for your monitor. There is no ICC to pass on with the file. You can embed a color space, sRGB, ARGB, etc.
Talk about flat scans or no adjustments is rather useless. You want to get the best scan and that requires using the scan software tools. At a minimum you set a neutral white point. I set mine at about 242 so there is head room to increase it in LR which does it in a more intelligent way protecting against blow out. The first adjustment I do is to click ACC, [automatic color correction] and that sets my desired white point and removes color cast in the bright levels. This must be set up in the Preferences as to how ACC will work. The default setting will work but give a higher white than I want.
I set a neutral black point manually in the Histogram Tool, [SF speak for Levels]. You do this for each RGB channel.
If this is all you do you will have a good scan. But I will use the color correction tools to fix issues in the mid tones.
NegaFix works like magic. If you know what film you have you just choose that profile. Otherwise you try different profiles till you find one that does well.
If you upgrade to SF 8 Ai I can share my preferences. This is the most confusing part for most learners IMHO.
Does Negafix work also on chrome's or just negative color films?
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Alan,
Negafix removes the orange mask on negatives when they are scanned. That is all it is intended for. Silverfast profiled a large number of different negative film types So it is simple to use.
Positives or transparencies or “slides” are scanned the normal way, just like with Epson Scan.
There are videos on the Silverfast web site if you want to see how the tool is used.
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Alan,
Negafix removes the orange mask on negatives when they are scanned. That is all it is intended for. Silverfast profiled a large number of different negative film types So it is simple to use.
Positives or transparencies or “slides” are scanned the normal way, just like with Epson Scan.
There are videos on the Silverfast web site if you want to see how the tool is used.
So I intend to shoot positives like Velvia 50. What will Silverfast SE Plus 8 that came with the V850 do for me? Does it calibrate my scanner to the ICC profile target that came with the Xrite i1 tranaparency? How does that relate to the Velvia 50 film I'm shooting since nothing is tell the scanner what my film is other than it's positive film.?
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Xrite also came with a reflective target that I scanned in and created and ICC profile. What is it used for and which programs can use it?
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reflective targets only are for reflective scanning.
Transparency targets are for transparency scanning.
There are no targets for negatives.
If SF is too much of a learning curve, you could try Vuescan pro. It works with all scanners, you buy only one copy, and it will support what you want to do, probably better than EpsonScan. It is free to try out. and modest cost if you like it.
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So I'm trying to understand. Excuse me but it's very confusing. Epson scanner V850 that I bought was furnished with i1 Xrite color target for transparencies and reflective. But I can only use them with Silverfast or Vuescan. However, the Silverfast SE Plus 8 that came included with the Epson can't use IT8 targets. For IT8 targets I need to upgrade SIlverfast and pay more money for SE Ai STudio or another of the software? Can I use the transparencies and reflective ICC's with SE Plus 8? What is the difference between IT8 target and the i1 Xrite color targets that came with the V850. Also, I can;t use SE PLus 8 that came with the V850 for negative film. For that I need negafix which which SE Plus 8 doesn't support. Why do I feel like I've been sucked into a cheaper deal only to be traded up to something more expensive? Thank you Epson.
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Hang on to your horses....
Using the i1 profiler package for reflictive and transparencies with Epson Scan
http://www.stockholmviews.com/epson_v850/v850-page2.html
The reviewer goes on to cover Silverfast and Vuescan.
It is a basic introduction “how to “.
Yes, the included version of Silverfast is not the full package - it was a marketing move by Epson and a low cost intro to a wider market for LaserSoft from their traditional professional scanning market.
Scanning is not a trivial skill to learn. It is not push the button. There is no magic.
There are a basic set of steps you have to follow to do a reasonable scan no matter which software you use.
There are tutorials on here and several of the posters have written books on how to scan and correct images. Even if you do not end up using Silverfast, the process is the same, just the tools are different. You could start with Sascha Steinhoff‘s books on scanning slides and negatives, and the Vuescan Bible.
Mark Segal has several tutorials here on using Silverfast. The workflow is basically the same
https://luminous-landscape.com/scanning-with-silverfast/
https://luminous-landscape.com/scanning-workflows-with-silverfast-8/
It is overwhelming at first, but if you follow the steps you will get better at it. Learning this stuff takes a lot of practice and mistakes. Just like learning to use a new camera. Once you get the fundamentals worked out for exposure, dof, and framing of shots, it is a matter of learning the user interface of the new camera.
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Hang on to your horses....
Using the i1 profiler package for reflictive and transparencies with Epson Scan
http://www.stockholmviews.com/epson_v850/v850-page2.html
The reviewer goes on to cover Silverfast and Vuescan.
It is a basic introduction “how to “.
Yes, the included version of Silverfast is not the full package - it was a marketing move by Epson and a low cost intro to a wider market for LaserSoft from their traditional professional scanning market.
Scanning is not a trivial skill to learn. It is not push the button
Thanks for that link. It explains a lot, that I can use the two x rite profiles with Epsonscan. I was told here I couldn't. Maybe they work for Silverfast. OK I'll try it and see how it works. This is stuff Epson should have provided. Anyway thanks for the assistance.
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OK So I right clicked on the two profiles as explained in the procedure to Install Profile. I opened Epsonscan. But the two profiles were not in ICM that I could see. There were two blank slots that I could select. But no description. See picture.
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Here's another picture with the Target selections show RGB and Monitor but that the two profiles in questions.
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I don’t use either of those programs. I am guessing that the profile is not in the correct folder or if it is, that EpsonScan does not have security access to the file or the file is not in the correct format either file extension or an internal format.
You are running it under Win10 ?
Are you able to find the Epson default profile file ?
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Here's the two ICC profile stored in Windows that I right clicked to install but didn't show up. DO these files have to be in some special Epson folder instead of where they're located now?
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See the last post here
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4199578
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That is for the printer icc profiles, i believe, not for the scanner profiles.
The \spool\ folder indicates for print spooler.
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I recall setting Versions 2. But I tried it again and created the two profiles gain to make sure. Then hit Install Profiles. There are now 4 empty slots. It's as if they are there. It's just that the files names don't show. The spaces are blank. See picture below.
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The only line that is named is the original one that came with the Epsonscan software: EPSON Standard
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I went into the properties of the file and set myself to allow all changes instead of just Read. No difference.
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I shortened the name figuring there wasn't enough room in the lines. No difference. Any ideas?
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Maybe review Epson and i1 support pages ? Did you find the Epson default profile location ?
Which program is the Install run from ?
The only other thing i can think of is to try running the programs as “admin” or perhaps checking one of the compatibility check boxes for the *.exe file.
It may be that the Windows CMM is not recognizing the file if Epson is not using their own CMM but using Windows CMM.
Beyond that i have no idea.
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Maybe review Epson and i1 support pages ? Did you find the Epson default profile location ?
Which program is the Install run from ?
The only other thing i can think of is to try running the programs as “admin” or perhaps checking one of the compatibility check boxes for the *.exe file.
It may be that the Windows CMM is not recognizing the file if Epson is not using their own CMM but using Windows CMM.
Beyond that i have no idea.
Attached is a view of the C:\Windows\System32\spool\drivers\color folder. It shows the one created transparency ICC that I made. I deleted all the others. Interestingly, now there is only one blank line in ICM Source in the Configuration section. There were five blanks for the five ICC profiles I created. So it seems that the scanner is seeing the profile even though here's no name. I tried scanning both the blank like setting and the Epson Standard. But I didn;t see any difference in the scan file results.
What does which program is the Install run from mean?
What's Windows CMM vs Epson's?
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OK I think I found the Epson scanners ICC profiles. It's in the same folder as above. They're called perv800f (for film) and perv800r (for reflective). Attached is a screen shot of both files opened by Wordpad.
So it seems my ICC profile is in the same folder. It's just that the name doesn;t display for some reason.
So let's assume it's there but not labelled. I can select it. How do I set up the other parameters to scan?
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I just relaized that those ICC's are for the selection for whether you're scanning documents or negatives. Not sure now where the Configuration ICC is.
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limit the file name to 8 characters same as the Epson in length and character types used alpha and numbers only
You may have to re-create the profile as i think the name is embedded in the profile as well.
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limit the file name to 8 characters same as the Epson in length and character types used alpha and numbers only
You may have to re-create the profile as i think the name is embedded in the profile as well.
I shortened the file name but it didn't work. Then the next day, I started up the computer and scanner and there they were. So now I have both the transparency profile selection and named as well as the reflectives one. Thanks much.
So I tried scanning the color transparency the Xrite came with and it seems the color results look the same with either sRGB or Monitor RGB Source using the transparency Xrite profile. Regular Velvia film you can leave the it without changing but because the film is different, for some reason, the setting for the histogram are wider than the actual data. You can pull in the white and black points before the Epsonscan or do it in post processing.
Frankly, you can use Epson Scan source rather than the profiles and just calibrate by eye to a calibrated monitor after the scan. It gets you pretty close. Unless you trying to copy some clothes color for a business brochure, it's the photographer who interprets t anyways. Of course a calibrated monitor makes it easier otherwise you might be off with your eye. I tried Portra 400 negative color and did not have any problem with orange masks.
The medium format film holders are terrible if you shoot 6x7's. I'll start another thread for that. Thanks everyone.
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Restarting the pc allowed windows cmm to recognize the name.
BetterScanning holders solved some of the issues with Epson’s for films. Maybe they are still around. Search on Epson 850 film holders and you will get a lot of hits.
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I also recall that Epsonscan did an auto update to Rev 3.9.3.4. So maybe that resolved the problem too.
Here is a screen shot of the ICM selection in Configuration showing the two new selections for Chromes and Prints.
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Yeah, it is old software. Likely written originally written when file names were restricted to 8 characters plus 3 character type extension.
When i saw all the other names in the directory listing, that is what triggered the memory.
Glad it is workable for you.
On not noticing any real difference between Epson sRGB and using the profile i1 generated + the Spectraview monitor profile, that may be because the i1 profile colour patches fall within the sRGB colour space. I don’t know for sure off hand.
When you are adjusting images, you want to work in a colour space that is larger than what you plan to output to. The working colour space for the image editing program is different from your device profile usually. AdobeRGB1998 can be ok and is larger than sRGB. ProPhoto is another commonly used. If you are printing or displaying on wide gamut devices, this can matter. If you are only outputting to the web, it may not make much difference as sRGB is assumed for internet and almost all monitors.
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Yeah, it is old software. Likely written originally written when file names were restricted to 8 characters plus 3 character type extension.
When i saw all the other names in the directory listing, that is what triggered the memory.
Glad it is workable for you.
On not noticing any real difference between Epson sRGB and using the profile i1 generated + the Spectraview monitor profile, that may be because the i1 profile colour patches fall within the sRGB colour space. I don’t know for sure off hand.
When you are adjusting images, you want to work in a colour space that is larger than what you plan to output to. The working colour space for the image editing program is different from your device profile usually. AdobeRGB1998 can be ok and is larger than sRGB. ProPhoto is another commonly used. If you are printing or displaying on wide gamut devices, this can matter. If you are only outputting to the web, it may not make much difference as sRGB is assumed for internet and almost all monitors.
Yes, the 8 characters could have done it. Thanks.
I have my NEC PA242W monitor calibrated with Spectraview II for sRGB because I put my digitally captured and scanned film photos up on the web. I also use them to make slideshows for presentation on my monitor or others. Also for presentation on my 4K UHD 75" TV. Of course with the TV who knows how it's calibrated and its color space?
It didn't make sense to me to use let's say Prophoto or Adobe Photo and then switch to RGB at the end. So I just leave everything in RGB for simplicity. Since I'm not printing, what would be the point? Would it make much of a difference if i use the scan to do a coffee table book? It's something I'd like to do and will do soon.
The other thing is that color is very individual. Everyone sees it differently and has their biases. So if I adjust it to look good to my eye, probably it will look good to most people and the rest don't matter because I'm pleasing myself and their tastes aren't mine. Comparing color palettes and spaces seems to me to be like pixel peeping. Frankly, unless you have two photos that you are comparing too, you won't see the difference in colors, and then only marginally. With one picture, how does anyone know it's "right" or "wrong". Unless a color is really off, such as with flesh tones, no one's going to notice. Does anyone see some colors missing because they're using a smaller color space? Bigger issues are banding, chroma effects, artifacts, etc. These are obvious or at least seeable. With film, did you spot out all the dust? Does the picture do anything for me? Or am I more concerned with technical perfection? As an engineer, it's easy for me to get caught up in the latter and miss the aesthetic trees in the forest.
The only reason I want color profiles though is to make the adjustment procedure easier because the results from scanning film gives weird results sometimes and it's hard to get to decent color results. Most people change saturation and stuff like that. So the picture isn't "real" anyway and doesn't match the original colors. But no one cares. Larger color spaces seem to be for people who like more pixels even if they don't need them. Sorry for the philosphy. :)
If I'm missing something, I'd sure like to hear yours or others ideas on this. Especially as regard to coffee table books and printing.