Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Photolandscape on October 26, 2019, 10:17:21 am
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This is not intended as anything more than a cursory observation, but a week ago I found a dealer with a X1DII demo and had the opportunity to play with it a bit. I liked the very slightly improved EVF and the larger rear LCD. I didn’t notice an improvement in the autofocus speed of the II or in any other important area. The gray finish is nice. Compared to the over-priced original X1D, the $5750 price tag of the II makes it far more reasonable than before. But having said that, I was not motivated to go for the II. I recently bought a spotless, mint, lightly used X1D for $3000 and couldn’t bring myself to spend another $2750 plus sales tax for an incrementally improved II. Just my opinion.
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I have had the X1d for about a year and I am very happy with it.
The start up time is slow and it is hard on batteries, but nothing to be overly concerned about.
I just received my dual charger and I am waiting on a new larger capacity battery.
I am pretty confident that once the early adopters get their shiny X1D2s that there will be a firmware upgrade for the X1D to make them pretty similar.
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3000 for a nice X1D is a good price because all in all it is a good camera....
the larger screen, better EVF and better processor might make it worth the extra money but the IQ will be the same...
software updates wont help much, maybe they can shorten startup (which is honestly a joke) but the new processor makes the X1DII faster...not by much....
the X1D was just way overpriced when it came out....3000 is a fair price and 5700 is ok when considering the Hasselblad factor...
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Is it worth selling the X1D and buying A LN or very good condition used X1D2 ? Say for 4800-5000
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Dunno, is it?
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got to shoot with the X1DII the other day....
still by far the best looking camera on the market....size is perfect, handling great, EVF is better then original, rear LCD wonderful....interface great like before, but i find buttons and dials better to make adjustments fast....but that screen and interface could change my opinion and make me re-arrange my workflow...
first observation: why doesn't everybody make cameras like this one? give me the same size body and screen and put a smaller sensor in with the tech we have!
second observation: oh man....AF is still in the dark ages, blackout is brutal...really, really hard to shoot people with changing expressions or moving through the EVF since there is no telling if you got the moment.....i have shot portrait with 4x5 and it is a different way of shooting, which is ok....this is shooting in the "don't move" way....shooting manual focus and not looking through the finder (which is how i would often shoot in the film days) seems to be a more natural way.....which brings me to overall speed....2.5fps is optimistic (as the hasselblad rep said) and there is no blackout because there is no image at all! get it? the EVF is solid black....no image popping up at all....darkness....i never liked shooting continuous with the GFX but at least you get some sense of what you are getting...which isn't much faster either and (as the hasselblad rep said) they made a choice not to show anything to not confuse the operator.....so there is no image at all in continuous....and since the AF C is completely pointless (even more so then on the GFX, which is pretty bad) it really comes down to: lock down camera, manual focus, shoot the continuous sequence without looking through the finder....hope for the best, repeat....
i did bring my sony RX1RII (42mpix, fixed 35mm central shutter, 5fps, half the size and weight) which is long in the tooth in every regard compared to new sonys, nikons,...but it really seemed like from a different planet....not known for its AF, it just completely blew away the X1DII....i get it the sensor cant handle it, just like in the fuji.....
problem is that i went home to compare the files....again: i used to own the GFX 50, so i do know what the sensor can do, and there are differences.....but in a controlled environment with correct exposure it really, really gets hard to notice any difference.....unless one has to open up the shadows bay 4 or 5 stops....the fixed 35zeiss is a very sharp lens, so there was no difference there either.....big difference was the large % of shots missed with the hasselblad (soft, blackout issues,...) of course that % can bbe improved on when adapting the shooting style....
but the thing is: i can slow down with faster cameras, i can shoot more deliberate, i can lock it down and sit eye to eye with the subject (and not look though the finder).....but i can also get all the shots in between, not have to worry about AF, speed.....or that i am giving anything up in terms of IQ....
i keep coming back to the X1DII not just because it is beautiful but because of the central shutter ...but the overall speed and handling makes it unusable for what i would need it for....
also: iPad tethering....amazing....shows what the iPad can do....full size raws pop up faster then on any desktop or laptop i have ever shot with....handling is great.....BUT settings do not transfer over to desktop right now....this is of course not hasselblads fault and will probably be fixed in the future, iPad workflow is something to look forward to .....but once apple opens it up completely everybody including C1 will offer it as well.....
which brings me to something i really did not like at all.....hasselblad has been showing iPad tethering and praising it since summer.....it is still not even available...let that sink in....a feature front and center in all marketing isn't even available.....
what i took away from it: i dont understand why sony does not copy the body, screen and interface and just put in a smaller sensor....
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iPad tethering....amazing....shows what the iPad can do....full size raws pop up faster then on any desktop or laptop i have ever shot with....handling is great.....BUT settings do not transfer over to desktop right now....this is of course not hasselblads fault and will probably be fixed in the future, iPad workflow is something to look forward to .....but once apple opens it up completely everybody including C1 will offer it as well.....
I tether to a MacBook Air, the lowest basic one at 8G/128G
This has a lot of advantages over tethering to an iPad to me.
All of the settings you make do transfer over to the main computer, including custom calibrations that you made in Reproduction Mode.
You can use the MB as a server for an iPad, so you give the iPad to the customer and they can rate the images as you shoot them.
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got to shoot with the X1DII the other day....
still by far the best looking camera on the market....size is perfect, handling great, EVF is better then original, rear LCD wonderful....interface great like before, but i find buttons and dials better to make adjustments fast....but that screen and interface could change my opinion and make me re-arrange my workflow...
first observation: why doesn't everybody make cameras like this one? give me the same size body and screen and put a smaller sensor in with the tech we have!
second observation: oh man....AF is still in the dark ages, blackout is brutal...really, really hard to shoot people with changing expressions or moving through the EVF since there is no telling if you got the moment.....i have shot portrait with 4x5 and it is a different way of shooting, which is ok....this is shooting in the "don't move" way....shooting manual focus and not looking through the finder (which is how i would often shoot in the film days) seems to be a more natural way.....which brings me to overall speed....2.5fps is optimistic (as the hasselblad rep said) and there is no blackout because there is no image at all! get it? the EVF is solid black....no image popping up at all....darkness....i never liked shooting continuous with the GFX but at least you get some sense of what you are getting...which isn't much faster either and (as the hasselblad rep said) they made a choice not to show anything to not confuse the operator.....so there is no image at all in continuous....and since the AF C is completely pointless (even more so then on the GFX, which is pretty bad) it really comes down to: lock down camera, manual focus, shoot the continuous sequence without looking through the finder....hope for the best, repeat....
i did bring my sony RX1RII (42mpix, fixed 35mm central shutter, 5fps, half the size and weight) which is long in the tooth in every regard compared to new sonys, nikons,...but it really seemed like from a different planet....not known for its AF, it just completely blew away the X1DII....i get it the sensor cant handle it, just like in the fuji.....
problem is that i went home to compare the files....again: i used to own the GFX 50, so i do know what the sensor can do, and there are differences.....but in a controlled environment with correct exposure it really, really gets hard to notice any difference.....unless one has to open up the shadows bay 4 or 5 stops....the fixed 35zeiss is a very sharp lens, so there was no difference there either.....big difference was the large % of shots missed with the hasselblad (soft, blackout issues,...) of course that % can bbe improved on when adapting the shooting style....
but the thing is: i can slow down with faster cameras, i can shoot more deliberate, i can lock it down and sit eye to eye with the subject (and not look though the finder).....but i can also get all the shots in between, not have to worry about AF, speed.....or that i am giving anything up in terms of IQ....
i keep coming back to the X1DII not just because it is beautiful but because of the central shutter ...but the overall speed and handling makes it unusable for what i would need it for....
also: iPad tethering....amazing....shows what the iPad can do....full size raws pop up faster then on any desktop or laptop i have ever shot with....handling is great.....BUT settings do not transfer over to desktop right now....this is of course not hasselblads fault and will probably be fixed in the future, iPad workflow is something to look forward to .....but once apple opens it up completely everybody including C1 will offer it as well.....
which brings me to something i really did not like at all.....hasselblad has been showing iPad tethering and praising it since summer.....it is still not even available...let that sink in....a feature front and center in all marketing isn't even available.....
what i took away from it: i dont understand why sony does not copy the body, screen and interface and just put in a smaller sensor....
I really wanted to read your views on the X1DII but I got part way through your post and started to get a headache. Maybe reformat with sentences and capital letters to help people understand what you are saying...as it stands, I can't get through your entire post.
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got to shoot with the X1DII the other day....
still by far the best looking camera on the market....size is perfect, handling great, EVF is better then original, rear LCD wonderful....interface great like before, but i find buttons and dials better to make adjustments fast....but that screen and interface could change my opinion and make me re-arrange my workflow...
first observation: why doesn't everybody make cameras like this one? give me the same size body and screen and put a smaller sensor in with the tech we have!
second observation: oh man....AF is still in the dark ages, blackout is brutal...really, really hard to shoot people with changing expressions or moving through the EVF since there is no telling if you got the moment.....i have shot portrait with 4x5 and it is a different way of shooting, which is ok....this is shooting in the "don't move" way....shooting manual focus and not looking through the finder (which is how i would often shoot in the film days) seems to be a more natural way.....which brings me to overall speed....2.5fps is optimistic (as the hasselblad rep said) and there is no blackout because there is no image at all! get it? the EVF is solid black....no image popping up at all....darkness....i never liked shooting continuous with the GFX but at least you get some sense of what you are getting...which isn't much faster either and (as the hasselblad rep said) they made a choice not to show anything to not confuse the operator.....so there is no image at all in continuous....and since the AF C is completely pointless (even more so then on the GFX, which is pretty bad) it really comes down to: lock down camera, manual focus, shoot the continuous sequence without looking through the finder....hope for the best, repeat....
i did bring my sony RX1RII (42mpix, fixed 35mm central shutter, 5fps, half the size and weight) which is long in the tooth in every regard compared to new sonys, nikons,...but it really seemed like from a different planet....not known for its AF, it just completely blew away the X1DII....i get it the sensor cant handle it, just like in the fuji.....
problem is that i went home to compare the files....again: i used to own the GFX 50, so i do know what the sensor can do, and there are differences.....but in a controlled environment with correct exposure it really, really gets hard to notice any difference.....unless one has to open up the shadows bay 4 or 5 stops....the fixed 35zeiss is a very sharp lens, so there was no difference there either.....big difference was the large % of shots missed with the hasselblad (soft, blackout issues,...) of course that % can bbe improved on when adapting the shooting style....
but the thing is: i can slow down with faster cameras, i can shoot more deliberate, i can lock it down and sit eye to eye with the subject (and not look though the finder).....but i can also get all the shots in between, not have to worry about AF, speed.....or that i am giving anything up in terms of IQ....
i keep coming back to the X1DII not just because it is beautiful but because of the central shutter ...but the overall speed and handling makes it unusable for what i would need it for....
also: iPad tethering....amazing....shows what the iPad can do....full size raws pop up faster then on any desktop or laptop i have ever shot with....handling is great.....BUT settings do not transfer over to desktop right now....this is of course not hasselblads fault and will probably be fixed in the future, iPad workflow is something to look forward to .....but once apple opens it up completely everybody including C1 will offer it as well.....
which brings me to something i really did not like at all.....hasselblad has been showing iPad tethering and praising it since summer.....it is still not even available...let that sink in....a feature front and center in all marketing isn't even available.....
what i took away from it: i dont understand why sony does not copy the body, screen and interface and just put in a smaller sensor....
Phocus Mobile 2 is out. Tethering with iPad is available: https://www.hasselblad.com/phocus-mobile/ (https://www.hasselblad.com/phocus-mobile/)
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Phocus Mobile 2 is out. Tethering with iPad is available: https://www.hasselblad.com/phocus-mobile/ (https://www.hasselblad.com/phocus-mobile/)
just got that email today as well
the problem with iPad tethering still remains, one really has to decide to shoot to iPad or to laptop/desktop, since only files can be transferred from one to the other, not adjustments....as of right now....
I also want to clarify something about my experience and comparing the little sony to the X1DII in terms of speed and tethering: the RX1RII is only USB2 which means that no matter how much faster the camera itself focuses and shoots, if one does shoot tethered with it (which is maybe a little silly) things slow down considerably because of slow file transfer.....the X1DII with iPad transfers are blazing fast, but like said before focus lock, blackout and fps make for a slower overall feeling...
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the problem with iPad tethering still remains, one really has to decide to shoot to iPad or to laptop/desktop, since only files can be transferred from one to the other, not adjustments....as of right now....
That's one problem. To me the whole exercise is pointless. What happens to all those hundreds of 85MB of so files once you get them there? If you shoot to a hard drive attached to a computer then when you are finished you just plug it into a bigger computer or transfer them to a mega storage device. I use use my iPad for browsing and for giving to customers to keep them away from the computer. It may be OK for hiding in the bushes for a wildlife shot. Does it even convert them to FFF?
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That's one problem. To me the whole exercise is pointless. What happens to all those hundreds of 85MB of so files once you get them there? If you shoot to a hard drive attached to a computer then when you are finished you just plug it into a bigger computer or transfer them to a mega storage device. I use use my iPad for browsing and for giving to customers to keep them away from the computer. It may be OK for hiding in the bushes for a wildlife shot. Does it even convert them to FFF?
yes, exactly...unless everything lives on the iPad it does not make sense....
BUT the speed and ease shows what could be....i have never seen full size raw files with adjustments pop up so fast....its literally turning your head to the screen after pushing the trigger....interface is clean and easy, really no reason not to love it...
hasselblad says something about apple not allowing it but (like my digitech pointed out) adobe can do it....LR CC on iPad sends adjustments via cloud to desktop and vice versa ....syncs ratings and adjustments in real time over cloud....i guess it cant do it over USB-C?
it actually would not be THAT bad for me, since most shoots tethered mean files pop up, basic adjustments, fix light,...take 2,3,400 frames, move on to the next set up....and in general the adjustments are pretty basic and can be easily replicated on the desktop and might just be 5 or 6 different looks that are applied to 1000 frames...
problem still is the lag and total lack of speed of the camera and focus mechanism
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My view.
As a pro, I write my gear off, and get VAT back. So, selling the old X1D for 3.000 euro and getting the new one for 4.500 + VAT, 4.500 euro which I can write off my taxes, is a no-brainer. I understand that not everyone is in the same situation, but for the many pros out there working with X1D, or for anyone who can write it off (and get VAT back in VAT countries), updating is definitely worth considering.
That said, in regard to the various posts above:
1. Blackout. I can shoot continuous frames with my X1D Mark II with no blackout. I see images constantly in the EVF while shooting continuous.
2. EVF & LCD are both MUCH better than the older versions.
3. The menus are even better organised in the II than they were in the already great I;
4. The camera is far more responsive at startup / shutdown, and with the latest FW, some lenses have much faster and more precise AF than when the II was released;
and more. Please see my review of the Mark II here: https://www.vieribottazzini.com/2019/08/a-first-impression-hasselblad-x1d-ii-review.html (https://www.vieribottazzini.com/2019/08/a-first-impression-hasselblad-x1d-ii-review.html).
Hope this helps, best regards
Vieri
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My view.
As a pro, I write my gear off, and get VAT back. So, selling the old X1D for 3.000 euro and getting the new one for 4.500 + VAT, 4.500 euro which I can write off my taxes, is a no-brainer. I understand that not everyone is in the same situation, but for the many pros out there working with X1D, or for anyone who can write it off (and get VAT back in VAT countries), updating is definitely worth considering.
That said, in regard to the various posts above:
1. Blackout. I can shoot continuous frames with my X1D Mark II with no blackout. I see images constantly in the EVF while shooting continuous.
2. EVF & LCD are both MUCH better than the older versions.
3. The menus are even better organised in the II than they were in the already great I;
4. The camera is far more responsive at startup / shutdown, and with the latest FW, some lenses have much faster and more precise AF than when the II was released;
and more. Please see my review of the Mark II here: https://www.vieribottazzini.com/2019/08/a-first-impression-hasselblad-x1d-ii-review.html (https://www.vieribottazzini.com/2019/08/a-first-impression-hasselblad-x1d-ii-review.html).
Hope this helps, best regards
Vieri
i think in terms of money the X1DII makes much more sense then the I
1: i dont know what camera you have...blackout is serious in single frame shooting and there are zero image previews at all, black only in continuous....the hasselblad rep confirmed this, they made the choice to not show anything....i mentioned that the previews flashing in with the GFX 50 did not help much but at least gave me some idea of what was coming in....i guess iPad tethering is so fast (and continuous shooting pretty much has to be locked down anyway because of AF speed) it might just make more sense to judge quick bursts on the iPad.....btw: the hasselblad rep also confirmed that continuous is just a little more then 2fps...
2: no doubt, EVF and screen are gorgeous
3: menus are great, seem to be snappier and less buggy as well
4:start up is much faster but still in the dark ages compared to pretty much anything, AF might be faster but still not comparable to any mirrorless DSLR and GFX is still noticeably faster....my biggest issue was that i literally could not get focus with the 135 portrait lens on the person sitting under the studio lights....the 45 was much better but still lightyears behind a kind of long in tooth RX1RII....
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i think in terms of money the X1DII makes much more sense then the I
1: i dont know what camera you have...blackout is serious in single frame shooting and there are zero image previews at all, black only in continuous....the hasselblad rep confirmed this, they made the choice to not show anything....i mentioned that the previews flashing in with the GFX 50 did not help much but at least gave me some idea of what was coming in....i guess iPad tethering is so fast (and continuous shooting pretty much has to be locked down anyway because of AF speed) it might just make more sense to judge quick bursts on the iPad.....btw: the hasselblad rep also confirmed that continuous is just a little more then 2fps...
2: no doubt, EVF and screen are gorgeous
3: menus are great, seem to be snappier and less buggy as well
4:start up is much faster but still in the dark ages compared to pretty much anything, AF might be faster but still not comparable to any mirrorless DSLR and GFX is still noticeably faster....my biggest issue was that i literally could not get focus with the 135 portrait lens on the person sitting under the studio lights....the 45 was much better but still lightyears behind a kind of long in tooth RX1RII....
Hello,
4. I only photograph landscape, therefore AF speed and startup speed are of no consequence to me. As well, I never said it is lightening fast or ahead of the competition - I said that it is far more responsive at startup / shutdown, and that the last FW sped things up even further, especially for some lenses. As always, the best choice for someone and for some kind of photography might not be the best choice for someone else. All camera choices are always compromises, no camera is perfect for everything and anything, and for landscape photography, IMHO the X1D II system offers the best compromise on the market today.
About your complain, my 135 focuses precisely all the time, while not lightening fast. Studio lights should definitely provide enough contrast for you purposes, perhaps either your camera or lens need to be checked?
Best regards,
Vieri
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Hello,
4. I only photograph landscape, therefore AF speed and startup speed are of no consequence to me. As well, I never said it is lightening fast or ahead of the competition - I said that it is far more responsive at startup / shutdown, and that the last FW sped things up even further, especially for some lenses. As always, the best choice for someone and for some kind of photography might not be the best choice for someone else. All camera choices are always compromises, no camera is perfect for everything and anything, and for landscape photography, IMHO the X1D II system offers the best compromise on the market today.
About your complain, my 135 focuses precisely all the time, while not lightening fast. Studio lights should definitely provide enough contrast for you purposes, perhaps either your camera or lens need to be checked?
Best regards,
Vieri
like i said before, i think the X1DII is a beautiful camera and definitely provides amazing files...shooting reminds me of the old hasselblad MF days, nothing wrong with that....
i shot the 135 at a hasselblad event, latest firmware....i am sure it would work perfectly well for landscape, it just struck me that THE portrait lens cant lock focus on a person at a hasselblad event...
dpreview just posted their review of the new 30mm, not a great review but they do make good points compared to the A7RIV....
in terms of startup and AF, these are issues one has to be aware of and will notice right away when first picking up the camera, easy to make a decision then to see if it will work for you personal style....
my biggest concern for landscape would be that the sensor ( as much as i like it) just is old and as a package something like the GFX100 would be more future proof....
i have made my own comparisons over the years between GFX 50, X1D and several sonys....and while the fuji and hasselblad files can be slightly better, sometimes visible, sometimes honestly not, there is no doubt they are more robust and have a more pleasant grain at higher iso....
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like i said before, i think the X1DII is a beautiful camera and definitely provides amazing files...shooting reminds me of the old hasselblad MF days, nothing wrong with that....
i shot the 135 at a hasselblad event, latest firmware....i am sure it would work perfectly well for landscape, it just struck me that THE portrait lens cant lock focus on a person at a hasselblad event...
dpreview just posted their review of the new 30mm, not a great review but they do make good points compared to the A7RIV....
in terms of startup and AF, these are issues one has to be aware of and will notice right away when first picking up the camera, easy to make a decision then to see if it will work for you personal style....
my biggest concern for landscape would be that the sensor ( as much as i like it) just is old and as a package something like the GFX100 would be more future proof....
i have made my own comparisons over the years between GFX 50, X1D and several sonys....and while the fuji and hasselblad files can be slightly better, sometimes visible, sometimes honestly not, there is no doubt they are more robust and have a more pleasant grain at higher iso....
As I said before, I only do landscape, and therefore I am not concerned by what might concern other photographers (startup speed, AF speed, etc). Of course, if you do different kind of photography you might choose a different camera.
As I also said before, all camera choices are always compromises, no camera is perfect for everything and anything. For serious landscape work, when you need to hike and carry your own gear, size and weight matter. The age of the sensor is of no concern to me, its image quality is, and the X1D (I or II) produce extraordinarily beautiful files. I personally would never choose the GFX 100 for landscape, ever. With the weight of the camera alone, I can carry either TWO X1D bodies, or one body and one lens. And, if you really need 100 Mp, there will be a X2D (or whatever it will be called) featuring 100 Mp at some point. Again, your solution to gear choice might very well be different.
Best regards,
Vieri
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As I said before, I only do landscape, and therefore I am not concerned by what might concern other photographers (startup speed, AF speed, etc). Of course, if you do different kind of photography you might choose a different camera.
As I also said before, all camera choices are always compromises, no camera is perfect for everything and anything. For serious landscape work, when you need to hike and carry your own gear, size and weight matter. The age of the sensor is of no concern to me, its image quality is, and the X1D (I or II) produce extraordinarily beautiful files. I personally would never choose the GFX 100 for landscape, ever. With the weight of the camera alone, I can carry either TWO X1D bodies, or one body and one lens. And, if you really need 100 Mp, there will be a X2D (or whatever it will be called) featuring 100 Mp at some point. Again, your solution to gear choice might very well be different.
Best regards,
Vieri
I agree with everything that you said. To me the X1D revolutionised landscape photography. All of sudden you can carry your gear into difficult areas without a sherpa. The GFX100 does not interest me. If I really need 100MP then I have a Canon Tilt shift lens and and can stitch a few images together. For the 99.9% of other times having 80MB files is a lot better than 160MB or whatever files. Startup is a minor pain on the X1D and I see no reason why there is not a firmware update for X1D to fix most of the issues. Even in the studio most of my work is Manual Focus. An X1D2 would be nice, but I would happily have two X1D.
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https://www.dpreview.com/videos/2449124160/dpreview-tv-hasselblad-x1d-ii-50c-review
this was pretty much my experience with the camera...
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As I said before, I only do landscape, and therefore I am not concerned by what might concern other photographers (startup speed, AF speed, etc). Of course, if you do different kind of photography you might choose a different camera.
As I also said before, all camera choices are always compromises, no camera is perfect for everything and anything. For serious landscape work, when you need to hike and carry your own gear, size and weight matter. The age of the sensor is of no concern to me, its image quality is, and the X1D (I or II) produce extraordinarily beautiful files. I personally would never choose the GFX 100 for landscape, ever. With the weight of the camera alone, I can carry either TWO X1D bodies, or one body and one lens. And, if you really need 100 Mp, there will be a X2D (or whatever it will be called) featuring 100 Mp at some point. Again, your solution to gear choice might very well be different.
Best regards,
Vieri
The Hassy is a nice light landscape camera with good ergonomics which its users appreciate; however quirks which are due to the old sensor used without focal plane shutter preclude fast shooting. I don’t see people complaining.
What is a bit sad about the DPR review is that the reviewers had trouble with portraits. Almost every non-professional photographer wants to do a portrait occasionally with the camera at hand. Vieri can say he NEVER shoots a portrait, because HE is a professional with iron discipline, HE never goes outside his planned project, but for the rest of us there is always a moment when the moment is magical, the camera in our hands says it wants to do a capture, and we give in.
Hasselblad have engineers, and engineers love to solve hard problems. Hassy could solve or at least ameliorate the focus problem in software, eg. by licensing the Panasonic DFD process depth from defocus, which works well on their GH and GF series of cameras.
Edmund
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The Hassy is a nice light landscape camera with good ergonomics which its users appreciate; however quirks which are due to the old sensor used without focal plane shutter preclude fast shooting. I don’t see people complaining.
What is a bit sad about the DPR review is that the reviewers had trouble with portraits. Almost every non-professional photographer wants to do a portrait occasionally with the camera at hand. Vieri can say he NEVER shoots a portrait, because HE is a professional with iron discipline, HE never goes outside his planned project, but for the rest of us there is always a moment when the moment is magical, the camera in our hands says it wants to do a capture, and we give in.
Hasselblad have engineers, and engineers love to solve hard problems. Hassy could solve or at least ameliorate the focus problem in software, eg. by licensing the Panasonic DFD process depth from defocus, which works well on their GH and GF series of cameras.
Edmund
No need for sarcasm Edmund, no need to try and being funny, I might recommend you keep your day job instead :) I never said anything of the sort about me. What I repeatedly said is that I am a professional photographer but, as such, I shoot only Landscape. I also said repeatedly that my conclusions (whether on my blog or here) apply to the kind of shooting I do, and that if someone does a different kind of photography his or her requirements might be different, and so can their choice of equipment.
Incidentally, I definitely shoot the occasional portrait, of course. I actually started working professionally as a photographer shooting people, back in 2005, and did that for 5 years before deciding to dedicate myself exclusively to landscape photography. I worked with musicians, rock / pop / classical, shoot live concerts, and had my work published by various magazines (Rolling Stones, Cosmo, Abitare, etc). I did a lot of street photography too, and my street work got exhibited a few times during thee years. In 2010, I decided I only wanted to do landscape professionally, but that said, I still do take the occasional portraits for friends and the like, sometimes "giving in", as you said, sometimes in more formal settings, with studio lights and so on. I just don't do portrait professionally, meaning I don't do it for money, don't advertise for it, and so on. In my experience, for the occasional portrait the X1D, either I or II, is perfectly fine, AF, speed and all, and if one cannot shoot the occasional portrait with the X1D, either I or II, one should probably chose a different hobby. Professionally, one might love the X1D's portrait rendition, which is superb as far as colour and IQ, and live with its quirks, or one might prefer a different camera, of course, because one values other features higher - no problem with that.
All that said, let's remember how lucky we are to be living today, with such great choice of equipment, and let's not forget the great photographers of the past, who took great images with no AF, no digital, no live view histogram, and so on. To me, all this equipment whining and bashing is just unnecessary and boring. There is so much choice out there, that if one don't like something he should just get something else that suits him better, and go take photos with whatever he chooses.
Best regards,
Vieri
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No need for sarcasm Edmund, no need to try and being funny, I might recommend you keep your day job instead :) I never said anything of the sort about me. What I repeatedly said is that I am a professional photographer but, as such, I shoot only Landscape. I also said repeatedly that my conclusions (whether on my blog or here) apply to the kind of shooting I do, and that if someone does a different kind of photography his or her requirements might be different, and so can their choice of equipment.
Incidentally, I definitely shoot the occasional portrait, of course. I actually started working professionally as a photographer shooting people, back in 2005, and did that for 5 years before deciding to dedicate myself exclusively to landscape photography. I worked with musicians, rock / pop / classical, shoot live concerts, and had my work published by various magazines (Rolling Stones, Cosmo, Abitare, etc). I did a lot of street photography too, and my street work got exhibited a few times during thee years. In 2010, I decided I only wanted to do landscape professionally, but that said, I still do take the occasional portraits for friends and the like, sometimes "giving in", as you said, sometimes in more formal settings, with studio lights and so on. I just don't do portrait professionally, meaning I don't do it for money, don't advertise for it, and so on. In my experience, for the occasional portrait the X1D, either I or II, is perfectly fine, AF, speed and all, and if one cannot shoot the occasional portrait with the X1D, either I or II, one should probably chose a different hobby. Professionally, one might love the X1D's portrait rendition, which is superb as far as colour and IQ, and live with its quirks, or one might prefer a different camera, of course, because one values other features higher - no problem with that.
All that said, let's remember how lucky we are to be living today, with such great choice of equipment, and let's not forget the great photographers of the past, who took great images with no AF, no digital, no live view histogram, and so on. To me, all this equipment whining and bashing is just unnecessary and boring. There is so much choice out there, that if one don't like something he should just get something else that suits him better, and go take photos with whatever he chooses.
Best regards,
Vieri
Well, we have two contradictory views - Vieri is happy, the Dpr guys less so. For myself. I find the color rendering of the Hassy extraordinary, while speed issues can become problematic. I think Hassy should find a way to make the camera more reactive while keeping the image quality, as both points of view have been argued over and over again, and seem together to represent market opinion. Fuji’s monster camera seems to provide such a solution albeit with a large penalty in size and cost which most are not happy with.
Edmund
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Well, we have two contradictory views - Vieri is happy, the Dpr guys less so. For myself. I find the color rendering of the Hassy extraordinary, while speed issues can become problematic. I think Hassy should find a way to make the camera more reactive while keeping the image quality, as both points of view have been argued over and over again, and seem together to represent market opinion. Fuji’s monster camera seems to provide such a solution albeit with a large penalty in size and cost which most are not happy with.
Edmund
Indeed, two different views. Another difference might be as follows. On the one hand, I have been using two X1D mark I bodies with 4 lenses for over a year to make my living, I brought them all over the world, in sand storms, rainstorms, snowstorms and under heavy sea spray, in temperatures ranging from 40 C heat to -15 C cold, with no problems whatsoever. I have now replaced them with two X1D Mark II which I have been using since they have been available, adding the 135mm as soon as I could get one. So far, I used them in cold / rainy / windy weather only (down to -16 C, this time), no warm weather yet. Both the X1D Mark I and Mark II have given me great results, great image quality, and with both versions I had no problems whatsoever with my cameras. None. I find them to be the best tools for the job, and I find them to be the most enjoyable camera I have ever worked with, and the one outputting the best results. On the other hand, the DPR guy, with all due respect, used a demo body for a whole minute or so and made a video. Albeit - again - I am expert only in using the X1D for landscape photography, and - again - people using it for other purposes might find that other cameras suit them better, I think there is a difference in our relative experience with the camera. I also think that people interested in the camera will be able to see the difference as well, and take my findings and the DPR review findings accordingly.
That said, is the X1D Mark II perfect? Not at all. Do I wish Hasselblad will improve it with FW, or with the release of a future model? Yes, of course I do. Do I whine about it, though? No, I just use it to create images, that's what cameras are for. If I didn't like it, or if I did like a different camera system better for my job, I would just get that camera system and do the same thing: take pictures with it. Incidentally, that's what I did when I moved from the Leica SL to the X1D, resigning from being a Leica Ambassador too (something most people would kill for), and yet you don't see me whine about the SL, even though I definitely like the X1D better.
Best regards,
Vieri
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blackout is brutal...really, really hard to shoot people with changing expressions or moving through the EVF since there is no telling if you got the moment
1. Blackout. I can shoot continuous frames with my X1D Mark II with no blackout. I see images constantly in the EVF while shooting continuous.
Very much appreciate both of your notes here but for the love of god, which is it?
I'm leaning more towards pschefz because I can't see how Vieri's account has materialised in this iteration.
Can someone please clarify here?
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Very much appreciate both of your notes here but for the love of god, which is it?
I'm leaning more towards pschefz because I can't see how Vieri's account has materialised in this iteration.
Can someone please clarify here?
Perceptual blackout times (real world):
Hasselblad X1D II 50c - 1 second
Fuji GFX 50s - 1/3 second
Fuji GFX 100 - 1/5 second
Phase One IQ4 150/XF - 1/2 second
Canon 5D MKIV - fast eye blink
We only became Hasselblad dealers after the X1D II, so I do not have an X1D version 1.0 to compare against, but I would presume a bit longer blackout than the X1D II.
Steve Hendrix/CI
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I took an X1D in on trade from a customer wanting a Rolleiflex Hy6 Mod2. I'm still playing with it. No question there's more of a lag between shutter press and taking the picture even when set to MF than I've ever been accustomed to with the Rolleiflex and for me that's more of a concern than the EVF black out time, however there is one. I'd believe 1 second as Steve reported, but probably not longer. I don't think anything could have been worse than the older Phase One's DF cameras so if the X1D is 1 second then that must have been 2 seconds. When I shot the DF, I found that by the time I could see through the viewfinder again, the model the framing and the focus had all changed, but with the X1D it's fast enough that nothing has really changed and I don't think the EVF blackout on the X1D is problematic at all for portraits. Yeah it's noticeable. It seems like the issue is mostly with the lenses - you can hear the lens shutter close, stop down, and then open. It's just really slow compared to other leaf shutter lenses that I've used. I'm not sure why HB has set it up that way. I do like the X1D a lot, though.
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I took an X1D in on trade from a customer wanting a Rolleiflex Hy6 Mod2. I'm still playing with it. No question there's more of a lag between shutter press and taking the picture even when set to MF than I've ever been accustomed to with the Rolleiflex and for me that's more of a concern than the EVF black out time, however there is one. I'd believe 1 second as Steve reported, but probably not longer. I don't think anything could have been worse than the older Phase One's DF cameras so if the X1D is 1 second then that must have been 2 seconds. When I shot the DF, I found that by the time I could see through the viewfinder again, the model the framing and the focus had all changed, but with the X1D it's fast enough that nothing has really changed and I don't think the EVF blackout on the X1D is problematic at all for portraits. Yeah it's noticeable. It seems like the issue is mostly with the lenses - you can hear the lens shutter close, stop down, and then open. It's just really slow compared to other leaf shutter lenses that I've used. I'm not sure why HB has set it up that way. I do like the X1D a lot, though.
Are you confusing the blackout with shutter lag (Steve reported 1 sec blackout, not shutter lag)? The shutter lag is the time from pressing the shutter until you hear the first clank.
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I am not sure what the shutter lag is but I think that you can work around it. This is an original X1D.
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Do the hasselblads have the same microlens gap as the fuji gfx 50? I really want a small MF camera but the microlens gap is a dealbreaker for me.
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I am not sure what the shutter lag is but I think that you can work around it. This is an original X1D.
not sure this is a good example, the more you control the situation, the less shutter lag matters...
i don't think anyone discusses blackout or shutter lag when shooting 4x5:)
and for anyone coming from the H system (or any other MF system) the experience with the X should be ok...
it all depends what it is compared to....
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not sure this is a good example, the more you control the situation, the less shutter lag matters...
I am not sure what "control the situation" means.
I had a tennis ball in my left hand and shutter release in my right.
True, though, if speed is your need then MF is not for you.
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Hi,
There is shutter lag, viewfinder lag and viewfinder black out. Those are different things.
- Shutter lag can make you to miss action.
- Viewfinder lag may make you point the camera in the wrong direction! :-(
- Viewfinder black out is just a nuissance.
A landscape photographer may for instance shoot waves rolling in. The photographer doesn't need to view the wave trough the viewfinder. Shutter lag is often all what matters in that use case.
The sensor cannot feed data to the viewfinder while it is read out. During readout, the sensor is essentially dead and the shutter is normally closed during readout. The camera can show an image saved just before shutter was caused, just to hide the black out.
The new 100 MP sensor has half the readout time for twice the data. So, it needs a 4X faster processor but can yield half the black out time.
SLR technology still has some advantages over EVF.
Best regards
Erik
I am not sure what the shutter lag is but I think that you can work around it. This is an original X1D.
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The sensor cannot feed data to the viewfinder while it is read out.
only in the mode with the closed shutter blades - how do you think video is otherwise working...
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I am not sure what "control the situation" means.
I had a tennis ball in my left hand and shutter release in my right.
True, though, if speed is your need then MF is not for you.
exactly...you decided when the ball was going to go into the water....
with people or portraits that means if you are able to direct the scene, telling them where and when and what to do, the x should work fine...and I would probably shoot manual focus as well...
if you are running around, following people, people moving, even if it is within a predefined area or scene, the shutter lag combined with slow AF and blackout make things very difficult....
In a portrait or fashion session it comes down to anticipation and the right flow...but again the shutter lag combined with slow af and blackout takes some getting used to....
for landscape I don’t see a real issue...
going to the hasselblad we site and looking at the stories, the examples speak for themselves...
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...
The camera can show an image saved just before shutter was caused, just to hide the black out.
...
Best regards
Erik
Thank you for that, Erik!
I guess this is what the X1D II does, and together with the fastest processing, it effectively gives you the impression of no black out during continuous shooting - you always see something on the EVF.
Back to the discussion, I never shoot action, so I don't know whether the camera is suitable for that or not but, as many said in this thread (and elsewhere) if speed is your thing then MF is probably not the best choice for you. That doesn't mean MF can't be used for fast moving subjects, after all people used to shoot the olympics with manual focus film cameras. It's just that in today's market we have so many great choices and so much gear designed to do the most diverse things, that there definitely are better choices for that.
Generally speaking, I think that either:
- better choice of gear for any given purpose;
- more practice, and therefore better technique;
or both, would improve people's photography more than endless forum whining about why a camera doesn't do what one wishes it to do, rather than what it is designed to do.
Best regards,
Vieri
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On the X1D, the first click closes the shutter, the second exposes, the third reopens/rearms. It would be interesting to simply know what the lag is on the new X1DII, how long after shutter press the exposing second click occurs.
I would agree with Vieri that whining is useless. But knowing the precise abilities or limitations of a camera helps. Informing a camera manufacturer about desired features also sometimes helps, as some manufacturers improve the firmware and release perfected models.
Edmund
Thank you for that, Erik!
I guess this is what the X1D II does, and together with the fastest processing, it effectively gives you the impression of no black out during continuous shooting - you always see something on the EVF.
Back to the discussion, I never shoot action, so I don't know whether the camera is suitable for that or not but, as many said in this thread (and elsewhere) if speed is your thing then MF is probably not the best choice for you. That doesn't mean MF can't be used for fast moving subjects, after all people used to shoot the olympics with manual focus film cameras. It's just that in today's market we have so many great choices and so much gear designed to do the most diverse things, that there definitely are better choices for that.
Generally speaking, I think that either:
- better choice of gear for any given purpose;
- more practice, and therefore better technique;
or both, would improve people's photography more than endless forum whining about why a camera doesn't do what one wishes it to do, rather than what it is designed to do.
Best regards,
Vieri
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Thank you for that, Erik!
I guess this is what the X1D II does, and together with the fastest processing, it effectively gives you the impression of no black out during continuous shooting - you always see something on the EVF.
Back to the discussion, I never shoot action, so I don't know whether the camera is suitable for that or not but, as many said in this thread (and elsewhere) if speed is your thing then MF is probably not the best choice for you. That doesn't mean MF can't be used for fast moving subjects, after all people used to shoot the olympics with manual focus film cameras. It's just that in today's market we have so many great choices and so much gear designed to do the most diverse things, that there definitely are better choices for that.
Generally speaking, I think that either:
- better choice of gear for any given purpose;
- more practice, and therefore better technique;
or both, would improve people's photography more than endless forum whining about why a camera doesn't do what one wishes it to do, rather than what it is designed to do.
Best regards,
Vieri
i really don't know what camera you have ...the X1DII when shooting continuous has no image at all in the EVF....there is no flashing image (like in the GFX) its just black....i believe that i shot with the latest firmware and the hasselblad rep confirmed that this is actually a choice hasselblad made since the flashing images do not really reflect the actual files (i used to own GFX and agree....the flashing images do not seem to reflect the actual captures)
we can agree or disagree if this solution is good or not, but (unless hasselblad has changed this with firmware since december 2019) there is no image in the EVF when shooting continuous....
I have repeatedly stated that i don't see much of a problem with any of this when shooting landscapes or even static objects...
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Generally speaking, I think that either:
- better choice of gear for any given purpose;
- more practice, and therefore better technique;
or both, would improve people's photography more than endless forum whining about why a camera doesn't do what one wishes it to do, rather than what it is designed to do.
definitely old school! :)
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On the X1D, the first click closes the shutter, the second exposes, the third reopens/rearms. It would be interesting to simply know what the lag is on the new X1DII, how long after shutter press the exposing second click occurs.
I would agree with Vieri that whining is useless. But knowing the precise abilities or limitations of a camera helps. Informing a camera manufacturer about desired features also sometimes helps, as some manufacturers improve the firmware and release perfected models.
Edmund
the X1DII works the same way and I don't have the tools to measure exactly but shutter lag is very noticeable....i can't remember the last time i shot with a camera where between slow AF, shutter lag and black out, there really is a certain disconnect...it really is something to get used to....
it is hard to describe because obviously we are not talking about 2 seconds but there just isn't a camera i know of that comes close...the obvious comparison is the GFX but the only thing slowing the GFX down is AF....i haven't noticed shutter lag or black out....all other FF mirrorless might have some measurable shutterlag and or black out but i just never noticed....with the X1D and DII it is front and center....just like the great EVF, look and feel and rear LCD....
I mentioned before: i compared the X1DII directly to my RX1RII and shot both side by side...I shoot the RX1RII side by side with A7RIII all the time and it shows its age when it comes to overall shooting speed....mostly AF and capture speed (and image review) but it is simply way faster then the X1DII...no comparison....
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the X1DII works the same way and I don't have the tools to measure exactly but shutter lag is very noticeable....i can't remember the last time i shot with a camera where between slow AF, shutter lag and black out, there really is a certain disconnect...it really is something to get used to....
it is hard to describe because obviously we are not talking about 2 seconds but there just isn't a camera i know of that comes close...the obvious comparison is the GFX but the only thing slowing the GFX down is AF....i haven't noticed shutter lag or black out....all other FF mirrorless might have some measurable shutterlag and or black out but i just never noticed....with the X1D and DII it is front and center....just like the great EVF, look and feel and rear LCD....
I mentioned before: i compared the X1DII directly to my RX1RII and shot both side by side...I shoot the RX1RII side by side with A7RIII all the time and it shows its age when it comes to overall shooting speed....mostly AF and capture speed (and image review) but it is simply way faster then the X1DII...no comparison....
Paradoxically, “real” ie. legacy MF and LF cameras don’t have that much of a lag - the worst I used was the Hassy, with about 1/3s, still better than many AF SLRs, and the 1920s large format film plane cameras I used as a kid had fairly low lag (Compur), and totally incredible image quality. My screwthread Leica’s fell somewhere in between, maybe 1/10s as the button went down and the shutter overcame inertia. Cartier Bresson’s work shows how useful a low lag can be even when not shooting sports.
I think the Hassy is a great camera, and I’m sure that as sales spool up they will bring out a fast version. Even now it could probably be used superfast with the shutter pre-cocked and an optical shoe mount finder. It just lacks the built-in optical finder of the Xpan.
Edmund
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I posted the following suggestion to the Hassy forum.
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Shutter precock / focus-lock firmware suggestion for use with optical finder.
In spite of its many advantages, the X1D is hard to use for portrait/street because of the shutter lag, but there could be a workaround.
The shutter lag serves to reset/clear the sensor, unless I'm wrong. The first click closes the shutter so the sensor can reset, the second click is the exposure, at click three the shutter reopens for viewing.
So there could be a "portrait" mode, where pressing the shutter once locks focus and closes the shutter, clears the sensor, and then the next fulll press of the shutter fires the shutter AT ONCE. The intended use of this mode is one could
1. Preadjust focus and get the camera ready.
2. Hold the camera next to one's eye and look over it after framing, or use an optical finder, and watch the action or the model
3 The direct view with ones eyes or through an optical finder makes the capture AT EXACTLY THE RIGHT MOMENT.
There would be no hardware mod to make here, just a firmware tweak to add this shutter-prepared mode, and maybe Hassy could even sell an optical accessory finder for some lenses just as Leica used to do.
In the end this working mode would be a lot like the old rangefinder cameras, where one would first adjust the distance and then only compose the image and wait for the shot.
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Edmund
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I posted the following suggestion to the Hassy forum.
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Shutter precock / focus-lock firmware suggestion for use with optical finder.
In spite of its many advantages, the X1D is hard to use for portrait/street because of the shutter lag, but there could be a workaround.
The shutter lag serves to reset/clear the sensor, unless I'm wrong. The first click closes the shutter so the sensor can reset, the second click is the exposure, at click three the shutter reopens for viewing.
So there could be a "portrait" mode, where pressing the shutter once locks focus and closes the shutter, clears the sensor, and then the next fulll press of the shutter fires the shutter AT ONCE. The intended use of this mode is one could
1. Preadjust focus and get the camera ready.
2. Hold the camera next to one's eye and look over it after framing, or use an optical finder, and watch the action or the model
3 The direct view with ones eyes or through an optical finder makes the capture AT EXACTLY THE RIGHT MOMENT.
There would be no hardware mod to make here, just a firmware tweak to add this shutter-prepared mode, and maybe Hassy could even sell an optical accessory finder for some lenses just as Leica used to do.
In the end this working mode would be a lot like the old rangefinder cameras, where one would first adjust the distance and then only compose the image and wait for the shot.
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Edmund
I don't know if this is the case.
The Phase One XF Camera can use both focal plane shutter and leaf shutter. You can set the XF to ignore the leaf shutter and only use the focal plane shutter. In this case, the shutter lag is less, and the frames per second also increases. I'm not sure why the leaf shutter needs to start from an open position. But it would seem that if the sensor needed time to clear and/or reset, that this would also be a factor when using the focal plane shutter.
Steve Hendrix/CI
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I posted the following suggestion to the Hassy forum.
-------
Shutter precock / focus-lock firmware suggestion for use with optical finder.
In spite of its many advantages, the X1D is hard to use for portrait/street because of the shutter lag, but there could be a workaround.
The shutter lag serves to reset/clear the sensor, unless I'm wrong. The first click closes the shutter so the sensor can reset, the second click is the exposure, at click three the shutter reopens for viewing.
So there could be a "portrait" mode, where pressing the shutter once locks focus and closes the shutter, clears the sensor, and then the next fulll press of the shutter fires the shutter AT ONCE. The intended use of this mode is one could
1. Preadjust focus and get the camera ready.
2. Hold the camera next to one's eye and look over it after framing, or use an optical finder, and watch the action or the model
3 The direct view with ones eyes or through an optical finder makes the capture AT EXACTLY THE RIGHT MOMENT.
There would be no hardware mod to make here, just a firmware tweak to add this shutter-prepared mode, and maybe Hassy could even sell an optical accessory finder for some lenses just as Leica used to do.
In the end this working mode would be a lot like the old rangefinder cameras, where one would first adjust the distance and then only compose the image and wait for the shot.
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Edmund
Hi,
I am a bit confused on that issue. Exposure can be initiated by resetting the shutter. Shutter does not be used for that. Terminating exposure would need shutter closing, or very fast readout. With a leaf shutter, common sense say that you start exposure with:
- Shutter open]
- Doing a reset on all pixels
Exposure would be terminated by:
- Closing shuter
- Reading out all pixels.
Best regards
Erik
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The Phase One XF Camera can use both focal plane shutter and leaf shutter. You can set the XF to ignore the leaf shutter and only use the focal plane shutter. In this case, the shutter lag is less, and the frames per second also increases. I'm not sure why the leaf shutter needs to start from an open position.
In a MILC like the X1D, the leaf shutter needs to be open for the EVF to work. But there's no precise counterpart to EFCS, so foro fully-mechanical shutter operation, it needs to close before the reset is removed. It can then open and close to time the exposure. Then it has to open again so that the EVF works.
It is possible also to leave the shutter open, and do a global reset to start the exposure and finish it with the leaf shutter, but that will be asymmetric. I don't know which the X1D does.
Jim
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In a MILC like the X1D, the leaf shutter needs to be open for the EVF to work. But there's no precise counterpart to EFCS, so foro fully-mechanical shutter operation, it needs to close before the reset is removed. It can then open and close to time the exposure. Then it has to open again so that the EVF works.
It is possible also to leave the shutter open, and do a global reset to start the exposure and finish it with the leaf shutter, but that will be asymmetric. I don't know which the X1D does.
Jim
Well that makes sense, Jim. Essentially a live view all the time camera would default to having the shutter open as a starting point. It's interesting that the non EVF'd XF camera also has this mode of operation.
Steve Hendrix/CI
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X1D shutter sequence
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouyVg4UVI0E
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Anyway, what do you X1D owners think of my proposed ergonomics improvement?
There is already a mode MQ Manual Quick which has the requisite functionality, but choosing it on the wheel is kludgy, what I suggest is a quick press on a button that focuses and then closes the shutter, waiting for a shutter button trigger. So That at any point if you see you will need a fast trigger you can invoke this "quick mode" by pressing a button with your camera hand, and just hold the camera steady or look through an accessory finder..
Edmund
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Well that makes sense, Jim. Essentially a live view all the time camera would default to having the shutter open as a starting point. It's interesting that the non EVF'd XF camera also has this mode of operation.
An SLR with a leaf-shutter lens has a similar issue. The shutter needs to be open for the reflex finder to work. With a focal plane shutter, the shutter can be closed while the image is being viewed in the finder.
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Anyway, what do you X1D owners think of my proposed ergonomics improvement?
There is already a mode MQ Manual Quick which has the requisite functionality, but choosing it on the wheel is kludgy, what I suggest is a quick press on a button that focuses and then closes the shutter, waiting for a shutter button trigger. So That at any point if you see you will need a fast trigger you can invoke this "quick mode" by pressing a button with your camera hand, and just hold the camera steady or look through an accessory finder..
Edmund
Sorry, I don'y know what you mean. Selecting MQ is as easy as selecting M or A. You turn the dial and it is there.
When you do that however you can do nothing from then on except press the shutter, which is excellent for repetitive product shots where everything is set up on a tripod.
However you have no viewfinder so it would make some interesting hand held shots.
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Sorry, I don'y know what you mean. Selecting MQ is as easy as selecting M or A. You turn the dial and it is there.
When you do that however you can do nothing from then on except press the shutter, which is excellent for repetitive product shots where everything is set up on a tripod.
However you have no viewfinder so it would make some interesting hand held shots.
Bob,
I"m proposing an ergonomics improvement by making MQ immediately accessible with a button press, without tripod or moving your hand, holding the camera withboth hands to move the mode wheel.
The idea is you slap an accessory viewfinder - or no finder - on the X1D and use it for portrait and street shooting.
Preframe your shot, HANDHELD, press a button with your thumb the lens closes down with AF and exposure locked. Then you watch your subject through the add-on finder or just over the camera and when the moment comes you press the shutter and it fires IMMEDIATLEY. I have often taken portrait shots like that, to get the expression right.
It's like using an old screw Leica or a medium format Compur Super Ikonta: You use one viewfinder for focus, and then move to another for framing, and you CAN shoot action or sports because you have next to no shutter delay. .
Edmund
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In a MILC like the X1D, the leaf shutter needs to be open for the EVF to work. But there's no precise counterpart to EFCS, so foro fully-mechanical shutter operation, it needs to close before the reset is removed. It can then open and close to time the exposure. Then it has to open again so that the EVF works.
It is possible also to leave the shutter open, and do a global reset to start the exposure and finish it with the leaf shutter, but that will be asymmetric. I don't know which the X1D does.
Jim
I would have believed that exposure would start with sensor reset, that is instantaneous. No need to close the shutter. Exposure would still be terminated by the mechanical shutter. It was my understanding that the shortest shutter speeds are made possible by that technique.
But, the Karl Taylor video says that the shutter closes before exposure. I am not sure it makes a lot of sense. In the video, he also says that aperture is stopped down before exposure.
Best regards
Erik
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An SLR with a leaf-shutter lens has a similar issue. The shutter needs to be open for the reflex finder to work. With a focal plane shutter, the shutter can be closed while the image is being viewed in the finder.
Jim, you're right of course. Totally didn't think that through (as you did).
Steve Hendrix/CI
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Jim, you're right of course. Totally didn't think that through (as you did).
Maybe it's because I have a lot of experience manually closing the shutter on view cameras before pulling the dark slide.
Jim
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Bob,
I"m proposing an ergonomics improvement by making MQ immediately accessible with a button press, without tripod or moving your hand, holding the camera withboth hands to move the mode wheel.
The idea is you slap an accessory viewfinder - or no finder - on the X1D and use it for portrait and street shooting.
Preframe your shot, HANDHELD, press a button with your thumb the lens closes down with AF and exposure locked. Then you watch your subject through the add-on finder or just over the camera and when the moment comes you press the shutter and it fires IMMEDIATLEY. I have often taken portrait shots like that, to get the expression right.
It's like using an old screw Leica or a medium format Compur Super Ikonta: You use one viewfinder for focus, and then move to another for framing, and you CAN shoot action or sports because you have next to no shutter delay. .
Edmund
in my experience this scenario is a little like a dance anyway...preparation and anticipation...and for me the trigger finger has to be ready and anticipate the moment, if I wait for it to actually see it, my reaction time and the whatever camera lag adds up to pretty much missing the shot...
so for me every camera is a little different when it comes to it, I am not saying I would not be able to get that shot with the X1DII as it is and I am pretty sure the shutter lag would not necessarily be the big issue since the delay is always the same and can be calculated ....but I would definitely have to shoot manual focus in situations like that....
but there are other cameras for that....ones that anyone can point from the hip and probably get the shot and the small difference in IQ would not be a deal breaker....
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X1D shutter sequence
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouyVg4UVI0E
Bob, that video was really helpful. I learned that the blackout occurs after the image is captured not before. That's a big difference. With MF SLR cameras like the DF+ the black out primarily was to wait for the mirror shake to die down and was more problematic since things and models move during that time. If it happens after the exposure to read off the data like the X1D then it might not affect things as much.
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Blackout happens definitely after....
the whole thing feels a little like a process....a little bit like shooting film and having to crank to advance and cock the shutter....obviously much faster and no cranking but a little ritual....focus, slight lag, blackout ...repeat...
looked over my files again btw and moire is very much there....any fabric has moire....the slider in phocus works well but adds weird pattern in hair....solution is to mask final files....just one more step, not that big a deal...I guess there is no filter? the Fuji has a lot less moire but does not look softer?