Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: Mark Lindquist on October 14, 2019, 12:06:29 pm
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Just finished this video about the Z9+ 24-inch printer.
HP DesignJet Z9+ 24-in Printer overview (re-loaded) (https://youtu.be/0vDan9Ijtyg)
Didn't get too deep into the nuts and bolts, but this will give many of you an idea of what the Z9+ is, if you haven't seen it in person.
Also, a little bit about me and my studios.
Mark McCormick (MHMG) and I have done a lot of testing on several aspects of the Z9+ printer, but have not had the chance to discuss all of that - we've both been very busy.
This video is more of an overview for those who are interested.
Best-
Mark
Edit: I republished the video and it now is starting view count from the beginning as of today. (One small edit in the video, now fixed.)
PS: LINK TO Z9+ UNBOXING AND SETUP VIDEO (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GogTiE8czYM)
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Nice overview, Mark. Thanks for sharing that. I have to say even though I'm fighting with a Z3200 right now, the Z9+ leads the pack in my consideration of what to get to build out my new core of printers. I only wish they made a 60" version!
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Mark,
Your sculptures are so beautiful and I had no idea they were that huge !
Nice ad for HP ( not really sold on the Bosa Nova though :-) ).
As I said when they first came out, I will believe the light gray values are equal to my Z3100, Z3200, Ipf 8300, and Large format Epsons with the great QTR, with the light gray dilution missing in that new inkset when I see it. I’m still very skeptical about that, which would be a deal breaker for me if it’s not at least equal to what I’m doing now or the other new offerings. Hp in their ads don’t even mention monochrome and that’s really scary to me because it was promoted so much in their previous Z tech. I wanted them to add another light light gray, not remove the one they had. For many people it might be a non issue. For me it’s critical.
Also I would like to see one on one gamut comparisons to the current Epson and Canon 12 channel printers . On Site used to do that, but not anymore. Guess there are too many printers and inksets coming out now.
The spectro is a huge factor with me as I am so dependent it for making quick profiles on crazy alternative media, I would miss that in a new Epson for sure! Also in that regard, last I heard HP had dumbed down the profiling firmware on the Z9+ leaving you with only small patch sets to work with. I certainly hope that can be overcome.i If not it is a step backward. Speed is far less of a concern than killer profiles with more patches for our primary media, especially since they already know how to make that possible.
John
Nice overview, Mark. Thanks for sharing that. I have to say even though I'm fighting with a Z3200 right now, the Z9+ leads the pack in my consideration of what to get to build out my new core of printers. I only wish they made a 60" version!
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Hopefully Mark McCormick will discuss the testing we did re: B&W.
I guarantee you will be amazed.
I’m advocating for the extended patch chart capabilities with HP.
They’ve told me it’s on their list but not immediately.
It’s no problem to make an extended patch target for the Z9+ using the Z3200 to output a tiff for the Z9 to print out.
Then the target can be fed in to the Z3200 to be scanned.
So that’s not an issue really. The Z9 will install it afterwards.
Continue to be a doubting Thomas - I have been in the past, but now having used the printer for my own work and in comparison testing, I’m no longer concerned.
I can tell you now- you will not believe how awesome the black and whites are.
I don’t mind a little ribbing about my style of video making. It’s a lot of work and a lot of time to bring you all my opinions. Maybe I should have asked you for some of your classical guitar tracks :-) the Bosa Nova is dated, like me :-)
Mark
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Hey Mark, good overview in the video...and I appreciate that took some time to do.
I'll keep feeding you comments on my progress, as well.
cheers, jc
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Mark,
...As I said when they first came out, I will believe the light gray values are equal to my Z3100, Z3200, Ipf 8300, and Large format Epsons with the great QTR, with the light gray dilution missing in that new inkset when I see it. I’m still very skeptical about that, which would be a deal breaker for me if it’s not at least equal to what I’m doing now or the other new offerings. Hp in their ads don’t even mention monochrome and that’s really scary to me because it was promoted so much in their previous Z tech. I wanted them to add another light light gray, not remove the one they had. For many people it might be a non issue. For me it’s critical.
John
John, I was also concerned but cautiously optimistic about the B&W performance on the new Z9 compared to the Z3200, so Mark L. ran a few specific tests for me to make an initial assessment of B&W quality. Based on those tests, I was able to confirm that the Z9 uses the same "trick" as the Z3200 to make great out of the box neutral B&W prints. It treats the RGB neutral triplets sent to the printer as 100% gray channel data, i.e. no other colors are blended to tweak neutral gray color. Canon and Epson don't do that, probably because their gray inks aren't as inherently neutral as HP's photo gray inks. The second thing HP has done to preserve the B&W dot structure quality in the light gray values was to add a second set of smaller nozzles and also alter the dot screening pattern in a very significant way. Mark and I need to do further comparisons about "perceived" image sharpness, grain structure and micro tonality (i.e pixel peeping type nerdy stuff examining the dot structure of the printed output), but using a "stress target" to make a quick assessment, my preliminary conclusion is that the Z9 actually exceeds the image sharpness and smoothness we are used to with our Z3200's. Hence, I think Mark L's delight with the Z9's image quality, both color and B&W, isn't just "new owner's confirmation bias". The Z9 is bringing some new tech mojo to the table as we should probably have expected given that the Z3200 print heads are decade old technology.
As for color gamut, it appears Z9 and Z3200 are very close but not totally equal. Z9 is better in highlight areas (which surprised me due to the Z9's elimination of LG, LM, and LC channels) but a little worse in some of the deep shadow colors. For the record, I'm not one to freak out about differences in gamut plots between different printers, inks and media. I'm more concerned about color and tonal accuracy over the printable color gamut, and in this regard, HP's built in spectrophotometer, calibration, and profiling routines are making it easier for printmakers to achieve excellent color and tone reproduction on any media they choose to explore, not just the canned OEM media promoted by the respective printer manufacturer.
If print permanence hasn't taken a step backwards (I don't think it will, but Canon proved me been wrong with that assumption once before :) ) then Hp's only real challenge is to step up its marketing game in order to win back some of its lost glory as a manufacturer of fine art and photography capable printers.
cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
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You guys have done more for positive HP public communication than HP has. Far more.
That’s good for me that, decent sized targets can be read by my z3200 and used on the Z9, but not so good for people who don’t have one. Thankfully you guys are pushing for a serious firmware upgrade. That tech deserves it.
I guess I’d have to see a comparative neutral bw print from the Z9 and the Z3200 of one of my files on one of the best papers to believe you can remove the lightest gray and have the same dimensionality. If so it’s a radical innovation that HP is not even promoting. I’ll be glad to pay anyone to make one and even send you the paper.
As for color gamut, I’m not hugely picky either and favor longevity if things are close. I am satisfied with the Z3200 for most things. But other people are going to want the comparisons to be between the Epson P series and the new Canons not the previous Z models.
I think it is very important to have three successful fine art printer companies keeping each other on their toes. Two is not enough. I am very concerned about how HP has dropped support for the Z3200 and raised the prices of inks by $10.00 a cart on their website. IT supplies has better prices thankfully and I have a good tech in Atlanta.
Just joking about bossa, I’m learning Jobim’s Wave right now on the guitar, though I’ll never have that Brazilian soul that one should be born with.
John
John, I was also concerned but cautiously optimistic about the B&W performance on the new Z9 compared to the Z3200, so Mark L. ran a few specific tests for me to make an initial assessment of B&W quality. Based on those tests, I was able to confirm that the Z9 uses the same "trick" as the Z3200 to make great out of the box neutral B&W prints. It treats the RGB neutral triplets sent to the printer as 100% gray channel data, i.e. no other colors are blended to tweak neutral gray color. Canon and Epson don't do that, probably because their gray inks aren't as inherently neutral as HP's photo gray inks. The second thing HP has done to preserve the B&W dot structure quality in the light gray values was to add a second set of smaller nozzles and also alter the dot screening pattern in a very significant way. Mark and I need to do further comparisons about "perceived" image sharpness, grain structure and micro tonality (i.e pixel peeping type nerdy stuff examining the dot structure of the printed output), but using a "stress target" to make a quick assessment, my preliminary conclusion is that the Z9 actually exceeds the image sharpness and smoothness we are used to with our Z3200's. Hence, I think Mark L's delight with the Z9's image quality, both color and B&W, isn't just "new owner's confirmation bias". The Z9 is bringing some new tech mojo to the table as we should probably have expected given that the Z3200 print heads are decade old technology.
As for color gamut, it appears Z9 and Z3200 are very close but not totally equal. Z9 is better in highlight areas (which surprised me due to the Z9's elimination of LG, LM, and LC channels) but a little worse in some of the deep shadow colors. For the record, I'm not one to freak out about differences in gamut plots between different printers, inks and media. I'm more concerned about color and tonal accuracy over the printable color gamut, and in this regard, HP's built in spectrophotometer, calibration, and profiling routines are making it easier for printmakers to achieve excellent color and tone reproduction on any media they choose to explore, not just the canned OEM media promoted by the respective printer manufacturer.
If print permanence hasn't taken a step backwards (I don't think it will, but Canon proved me been wrong with that assumption once before :) ) then Hp's only real challenge is to step up its marketing game in order to win back some of its lost glory as a manufacturer of fine art and photography capable printers.
cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
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As for color gamut, I’m not hugely picky either and favor longevity if things are close. I am satisfied with the Z3200 for most things. But other people are going to want the comparisons to be between the Epson P series and the new Canons not the previous Z models.
I agree that color gamut volume plots are frequently used by printer and media reviewers as a measure of the printer's color output quality. However, those plots only illustrate the potential of the system to make vivid colors, not the color and tonal accuracy of the system when printing within the printable gamut where color fidelity in the neutrals, low chroma, and moderate chroma areas of the prints are far more critical to perceived image quality than high chroma value reproduction. That said, I tend to agree with you that the color gamut thing is going to be an HP marketing challenge when going up against Epson's latest 12 color WF printers. Gamut plots make the color quality differences seem huge. However, I believe the I* metric can put that issue into much better context, i.e., how important are ultra vivid colors in a typical photo image...perhaps in some specific instances, but I’d wager the typical camera source file never pushes those boundaries to extremes, thus rendered color and tonal accuracy overall is probably a much better qualifier for image quality than are gamut volume plots.
cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
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Be interesting to see how the prints compare on fading with the Z3200. My hunch is they should do just as well if not better. I am especially impressed with HP using a universal print head. Makes it so simple to keep a spare or two around, compared with the pre-filled variety of the 3200! Of course the HP print heads seem to be very durable anyway. I'm only on my 3rd set on my 12-year-old Z3100. And the price is quite minimal compared to what Canon charges for theirs. Also interesting that HP is using the 300ml cartridges now, compared to the 130's. Of course, most of us have already discovered that we can use the 300 ml 772 carts in our Z printers, just by swapping out the chipped cap from a 130 ml cart. Just lose the ability to check ink levels.
Cudos to both Marks on their work and contributions to this list! Will be looking forward to Mark's fade tests, which I'm sure are in the works?
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Cudos to both Marks on their work and contributions to this list! Will be looking forward to Mark's fade tests, which I'm sure are in the works?
Thanks John for the kind words.
Funding at Aardenburg is not there yet for another new round of light fade tests and far short of being able to acquire the new printers (which is much more efficient with my time compared to working with other printer owners when the test matrix gets complex). However, the Z9 output ranks high on my testing roadmap, the new Epson 7570/9570 series as well. I'd like to run both ink sets and Z3200 Vivera for good measure on a set of several matched media batches, to illustrate in no uncertain terms how important media choice is these days! It's going to happen. A matter of when not if, I believe.
best,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
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Mark, thank you for the video - informative and beautiful work.
Looked like you were printing to a Baryta paper, and then letting the auto cut drop the print into the basket; in a dozen years of printing for clients, I've not tried that, except for vinyls, graphics, and schematics. Does the ink settle fast enough to really do that?
How does the printer handle robust paper - thinking the Canson Prestige Baryta (which I run a lot of) - I scarcely use the last couple of yards on a roll, as the curl is inviting head strikes on our 8400.
This also links into the profile generation. A Lot of the work we do gets cold mounted to various substrates, and it would be great to be able to print a patch set, laminate it and mount to a light weight substrate subtitute (i.e. 1mm whight forex) and read the patches, all through the printer (with an extended patch set). Currently, with the most laminated / mounted combinations we use, we run 2033 patches, then wait 24 hours, then hand read... I'm not sure how I would replicate the reflectance of an aluminium backing...
And, with profile generation, how rapidly were you able to sensibly read the patches? Are we still looking at a 24 hour delay (at least with the Canons) before the images have cured?
(Side note, was at a print trade show in the UK last month, and saw an amazing Mimaki printer which produced scratch proof images almost immediately, with all sorts of spot varnish (All over varnish??) options, complete with auto (any shape) cut, and the ability to print to uncoated stock...)
WRT productivity, I'm printing through EFI express - there's a lot of ganging up prints, and I love the ability to build settings for repeat jobs and "presets" - did you see anything in the HP s/w that would allow us to dispense with a dedicated RIP?
The Canon ain't broke, but is getting a bit long in the tooth, and iot's been too long since the last toy new development in client service enhancement
Sorry, that was a lot of questions.
And sorry, I guess this belongs better in the HP Designjet Z9 - HP has launched a new large format photo printer thread.
Also sorry for the bad habbit I've developed of starting sentences with And; and sorry... Need a faster printer, that doesn't need baby sitting late into the evening.
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So, Mark, I was directed to your video by a friend of mine, Jim Camelford, whom is also a regular on this site. What the 2 of you have in common, it seems, is your love for the Z9+ printer. So, I was an owner of an Epson Stylus 4900, but due to its constant clogging challenges, I sold it and am now on a search for a replacement, and have decided to look for a 24" printer. I started looking at 24″ printers, and have looked at Canon, their P2000, and have had a company in Toronto where I live make arrangements with Canon to use their printer lab to print a few of my pics on 3 separate occasions. I am also looking at the new HP Z9+ series 24″ and am pleased, but am still a little worried that the colour gamet can not be the same with 9 colours as the Canon can be with 11, but have printed a few of my pics that I printed on the Canon P2000 on the HP Z9 and was pleased! I have been trying to decide which one I should get, and at this time favour Canon only due to the fact the they are offering a rebate at this time). I am also really not convinced yet about B & W prints, and even though you stated a few times in your review how neutral the B & W prints are from the Z9+, I still feel that with one or 2 additional greys, the B&W prints would look even better.
I am waiting for a photo show that takes place mid November in Toronto put on by a local photo shop (they have several stores across Canada), which I have attended the past few years and where they do offer some incentives to buy during the 2 days of the show.
Mark, I really did enjoy your video, and your clear explanation of where it outshines the Z3200, but I am trying to compare prints from the Canon P2000 to the prints from the Z9+, and see if the differences in prints really do exist, and if the differences will be worth the differences in the price of the two.
I do hope to decide before the end of the year!
Stephen
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Mark, thank you for the video - informative and beautiful work.
Looked like you were printing to a Baryta paper, and then letting the auto cut drop the print into the basket; in a dozen years of printing for clients, I've not tried that, except for vinyls, graphics, and schematics. Does the ink settle fast enough to really do that?
How does the printer handle robust paper - thinking the Canson Prestige Baryta (which I run a lot of) - I scarcely use the last couple of yards on a roll, as the curl is inviting head strikes on our 8400.
Hi Richard,
Actually I was printing on a good Pearl paper, not Baryta, but I do use Innova Exhibition Baryte and installed the ICC profile for the Z9+ from Innova's website and it's pretty danged good. And yeah, inks are dry enough to allow it to drop in the basket. When setting up the paper preset, I used an extended drying time and it works fine.
I do mostly let the paper drop in the basket with the Z9+. If I'm concerned, I turn off the cutter, then at my leisure, just go cut the print and hold on to it. Other times I put a table that's at the right height in front of the printer and let the print slide onto the table and it auto cuts it.
For robust papers like Moab Entrada Natural (a favorite that MHMG turned me on to), I usually turn off the cutter and hold onto it while it cuts. I use the paper sliding onto the table then auto-cutting when unattended. This would work with heavier papers you use, no problem.
I roll out the end of the roll and cut it and decurl it and use it as sheets. All printers get hung up in this area.
This also links into the profile generation. A Lot of the work we do gets cold mounted to various substrates, and it would be great to be able to print a patch set, laminate it and mount to a light weight substrate subtitute (i.e. 1mm whight forex) and read the patches, all through the printer (with an extended patch set). Currently, with the most laminated / mounted combinations we use, we run 2033 patches, then wait 24 hours, then hand read... I'm not sure how I would replicate the reflectance of an aluminium backing...
And, with profile generation, how rapidly were you able to sensibly read the patches? Are we still looking at a 24 hour delay (at least with the Canons) before the images have cured?
(Side note, was at a print trade show in the UK last month, and saw an amazing Mimaki printer which produced scratch proof images almost immediately, with all sorts of spot varnish (All over varnish??) options, complete with auto (any shape) cut, and the ability to print to uncoated stock...) WRT productivity, I'm printing through EFI express - there's a lot of ganging up prints, and I love the ability to build settings for repeat jobs and "presets" - did you see anything in the HP s/w that would allow us to dispense with a dedicated RIP?
The current limitation of the ESP in the Z9+ is limited to 464 patches. I use the Z3200 to generate a tiff for the Z9 to print out, then run it back through the Z3200 for scanning and reading. So, no bueno at this point what you are suggesting with the Z9. HP is working on this limited patch target capability of the spectro, but it's hard to say when they will implement it. When they do, wowzer, it will be smokin' fast. As it is, I can do what you are talking about in about a couple of hours with the HP Z3200, all said and done. And yeah, could do the backing at the same time with the Z3200 reading it. Piece of cake.
No 24 hour delay. 30 minutes to an hour is sufficient.
From the standpoint of ganging prints, etc., there is a piece of software HP has called "Click" that should let you do that, but doubtful it would have the control you'd be looking for.
Good news is that they have an embedded web server and you can go into the job queue and do repeat prints no problem and stack them in the queue.
No problem asking those questions here - AND, no need to apologize, lol.
Best,
Mark
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So, Mark, I was directed to your video by a friend of mine, Jim Camelford, whom is also a regular on this site. What the 2 of you have in common, it seems, is your love for the Z9+ printer. So, I was an owner of an Epson Stylus 4900, but due to its constant clogging challenges, I sold it and am now on a search for a replacement, and have decided to look for a 24" printer. I started looking at 24″ printers, and have looked at Canon, their P2000, and have had a company in Toronto where I live make arrangements with Canon to use their printer lab to print a few of my pics on 3 separate occasions. I am also looking at the new HP Z9+ series 24″ and am pleased, but am still a little worried that the colour gamet can not be the same with 9 colours as the Canon can be with 11, but have printed a few of my pics that I printed on the Canon P2000 on the HP Z9 and was pleased! I have been trying to decide which one I should get, and at this time favour Canon only due to the fact the they are offering a rebate at this time). I am also really not convinced yet about B & W prints, and even though you stated a few times in your review how neutral the B & W prints are from the Z9+, I still feel that with one or 2 additional greys, the B&W prints would look even better. I am waiting for a photo show that takes place mid November in Toronto put on by a local photo shop (they have several stores across Canada), which I have attended the past few years and where they do offer some incentives to buy during the 2 days of the show.
Mark, I really did enjoy your video, and your clear explanation of where it outshines the Z3200, but I am trying to compare prints from the Canon P2000 to the prints from the Z9+, and see if the differences in prints really do exist, and if the differences will be worth the differences in the price of the two.
I do hope to decide before the end of the year!
Stephen
Hi Steven - glad you liked the video. I only know Jim through this forum and that he has a Z9+ printer as well. I suggest you go to Aardenburg Imaging and WIR (Wilhelm) and look up the differences between Canon and Epson inks as well as preliminary results on the Z9+. Don't underestimate the dual dot technology HP has introduced with the Z9+. Also, take into consideration the ability to make in-house custom ICC profiles with the Z9+. Powerful mojo going on there.
Please read the comments in MHMG's responses above to understand how the HP is superior in the B&W area.
I can only give my opinions and they are based on over a decade printing with Z3200 printers and my current use of the Z9+, in addition to working with Mark McCormick, one of only a few top level color scientists working in this arena. Look at what he says.
Go to Aardenburg-Imaging.com - benefit from his hard work - make a donation!
Thanks!
Mark L.
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Be interesting to see how the prints compare on fading with the Z3200. My hunch is they should do just as well if not better. I am especially impressed with HP using a universal print head. Makes it so simple to keep a spare or two around, compared with the pre-filled variety of the 3200! Of course the HP print heads seem to be very durable anyway. I'm only on my 3rd set on my 12-year-old Z3100. And the price is quite minimal compared to what Canon charges for theirs. Also interesting that HP is using the 300ml cartridges now, compared to the 130's. Of course, most of us have already discovered that we can use the 300 ml 772 carts in our Z printers, just by swapping out the chipped cap from a 130 ml cart. Just lose the ability to check ink levels.
Cudos to both Marks on their work and contributions to this list! Will be looking forward to Mark's fade tests, which I'm sure are in the works?
Hey John - thanks for the kind words. Good to see you here.
Mark
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Z9+ is still not available in my country. But I'd used Z3200(44") for over one year, experience is terrible. Mechanical is totally disaster. In that year, I had to change circuit board twice and two belt, not to mention the idiotic sheet paper loading and star wheels. And it's extremely slow, have to wait the "checking.."(for what?) minutes after printing every time. Sorry to HP lovers for my rudely complaint. But bad experience causes no effect to my view of Z9+ spec below.
Back to Z9+, although HP developed variable ink drop, and smallest size down to 3 pl. Two sizes, big drop is 7 pl. But it's only available on C, M, PK, B and Gray, other color Y, MK, R, G is still bigger 6 pl. Compared to Epson, also variable ink drop but every color has 3.5 pl minimum droplet. Canon is 4 pl, all colors for sure. I don't think HP can get any advantage in granularity and resolution performance. Additionally, Z9+ has no light color ink and only K2 gray. It may be coarsely in high key if look closely. New chromatic green and chromatic blue may increase gamut in some way. Yes, HP has most light resistance pigments and good color gamut, but image detail and fineness is not as good as a Canon or Epson printer. Attach scan of Epson 9880 and HP Z3200 prints, all by driver no RIP.
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Z9+ is still not available in my country. But I'd used Z3200(44") for over one year, experience is terrible. Mechanical is totally disaster. In that year, I had to change circuit board twice and two belt, not to mention the idiotic sheet paper loading and star wheels. And it's extremely slow, have to wait the "checking.."(for what?) minutes after printing every time. Sorry to HP lovers for my rudely complaint. But bad experience causes no effect to my view of Z9+ spec below.
Back to Z9+, although HP developed variable ink drop, and smallest size down to 3 pl. Two sizes, big drop is 7 pl. But it's only available on C, M, PK, B and Gray, other color Y, MK, R, G is still bigger 6 pl. Compared to Epson, also variable ink drop but every color has 3.5 pl minimum droplet. Canon is 4 pl, all colors for sure. I don't think HP can get any advantage in granularity and resolution performance. Additionally, Z9+ has no light color ink and only K2 gray. It may be coarsely in high key if look closely. New chromatic green and chromatic blue may increase gamut in some way. Yes, HP has most light resistance pigments and good color gamut, but image detail and fineness is not as good as a Canon or Epson printer. Attach scan of Epson 9880 and HP Z3200 prints, all by driver no RIP.
Hello MfAlab,
Your experience with the Z3200 sounds terrible indeed, but how is it possible to need two belts in a year? Mine lasts 7 years.... you have been out of luck.
The detail photos are clear; Would be nice to see details of the z9 next to those.
Must say i have never seen dots with my naked eye, only when there was a problem with the printheads.
Main real problem in printing quality i find is banding, occuring in the slow graduals. Sometimes i have to make a special ICC profile to solve it.
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There are good belts and bad belts out there. The good belts can indeed last 5 years and more with regular use.
As to print quality, resolution, banding, etc. it is really important to do four things.
1. Make sure print heads are replaced when warranty expires. I know we dont often do that but we should for finest dither.
2. Make sure the paper advance is calibrated for the media being used for best results. Some people go for many years without ever doing a paper advance calibration.
3. Always do a paper calibration ( linearization ) for each new roll of media. It is automatic and only takes a few minutes.
4. Do not go with the basic 740 patch calibration targets for profiling, which most people do! . There you can create 1728 patch targets that are great,
http://z3200.com/Making_Profiles_For_HP-Z3200_Printers.htm
Even more expansive custom targets can be created that show clearly visible improvements in resolution, dynamic range, and print color, smoothness, and gamut. But realistically 1728 is the minimum and Hp never bothered to tell us or promote their own tech.
All the communication about this capability goes to Geraldo Garcia who shared his experiments,Mark Lindquist and Mark McCormick for helping the rest of us understand it and put it into practice. Reading patches with an i1 is not the same ball game even if one had the patience to do it. A couple of us made 2200 patch x-rite calibrations read by hand and they were not as good as the 1728 internally calibrated profiles.
I just printed a 40x40 HPZ3200 neutral monochrome print last night from a great 16 bit drum scan of Hasselblad film and it blows away anything I’ve done for the last 10 years on my 9890 and 7890 Epson with QTR and Epson inks or my Canon 8300 with true black and white. The color accuracy is also better than I can achieve on these printers with oem inks. That profile was one Mark helped me make with 6000 patches.
Does the Z3200 sheet feeding suck and should that have been resolved 10 years ago, yes. It their software glitchy and the website poorly conceived and managed, yes. Yes the Z3200 is slow and unlike the Canons bidirectional output that doubles the speed is not recommended, just not sharp enough.
Now with the emergence of these new Epson and Canon 12 ink printers that have been improved I have no idea how they will stack up against the new HPs. One thing though, you won’t be able to use QTR with the new Epsons.
John
Hello MfAlab,
Your experience with the Z3200 sounds terrible indeed, but how is it possible to need two belts in a year? Mine lasts 7 years.... you have been out of luck.
The detail photos are clear; Would be nice to see details of the z9 next to those.
Must say i have never seen dots with my naked eye, only when there was a problem with the printheads.
Main real problem in printing quality i find is banding, occuring in the slow graduals. Sometimes i have to make a special ICC profile to solve it.
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Hello MfAlab,
Your experience with the Z3200 sounds terrible indeed, but how is it possible to need two belts in a year? Mine lasts 7 years.... you have been out of luck.
The detail photos are clear; Would be nice to see details of the z9 next to those.
Must say i have never seen dots with my naked eye, only when there was a problem with the printheads.
Main real problem in printing quality i find is banding, occuring in the slow graduals. Sometimes i have to make a special ICC profile to solve it.
Yes, I have been out of luck on that Z3200. Have I mentioned two or three heads were replaced? :(
Banding, head alignment, feeding and so on, is correctable and can be calibrated. But ink drop size is not, it is a hardware specification. I can fine tune light ink transition curve to minimum granularity, but I can't make the dot smaller. For ink efficiency and longevity, Z3200 is a good printer. For finest detail, it's not. Allow me to note that: Ink dots in the images is quite small. Most of time, people will say that is a okay. I just found that in the very beginning printer testing. If HP let me try new Z9+, I will be happy to show a side by side details comparison with Canon and Epson's new printer.
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The precision of the way the ink drops are rendered and the resulting image quality is greatly effected by the number of patches used in making the profile and the media used. How many patches were you using? Of course you replace heads occasionally. That’s the nature of the system and the heads are very inexpensive and don’t clogg.
As to how the Z9 holds up in this area of resolution and whether they can be run in bidirectional mode effectively will be interesting to see. I suspect Epson is in first place followed by Canon, then HP.
But we’ll see. Clearly catching up in the speed department was a major concern for HP or they would have been completely out of the running.
John
Yes, I have been out of luck on that Z3200. Have I mentioned two or three heads were replaced? :(
Banding, head alignment, feeding and so on, is correctable and can be calibrated. But ink drop size is not, it is a hardware specification. I can fine tune light ink transition curve to minimum granularity, but I can't make the dot smaller. For ink efficiency and longevity, Z3200 is a good printer. For finest detail, it's not. Allow me to note that: Ink dots in the images is quite small. Most of time, people will say that is a okay. I just found that in the very beginning printer testing. If HP let me try new Z9+, I will be happy to show a side by side details comparison with Canon and Epson's new printer.
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I've been using HP Z Series printers since they first came out (still have original Z3100 but don't use it).
The belt issue is well known, as is the sheet feeding issue, which we all learned (from Ernst Dinkla) a work around that makes it a breeze.
The plain embedded spectrophotometer ICC profile is mediocre, but passable for many. Extended patch profiles made with the ESP rock and show the printer is capable of so much more than normal users can (or are willing to) achieve.
The beauty of the Z3200 is that it can be used in an experimental context, color wise.
Some machines had problems that couldn't be resolved. If one bought a used Z3200, or inherited a used one, no telling what kind of mess it could be, and once getting into it, turned out to be a nightmare for some. Otherwise, there are original Z3100 machines out there still going strong. The same holds true for Canon and Epson. Try to fix one of those on your own.
Pixel peeping down to the micron is in my book pointless. Ultimately, aside from measuring light values, it always comes down to subjective analysis of the final print, which depends on the skill of the photographer and the skill of the person making a print on any given printer. And, the eye of the viewer. Connoisseurship extends beyond, cigars and wines.... :-)
In this regard, the Z3200 excels in my opinion. Additionally, all sources agree that the Vivera inkset far exceeds all other competition in longevity.
Some people swear by the Z3200, others enjoy the Epson and Canon printers.
The Z9+ is not without issues, the same as ALL printers, each in their own way. However, the Z9+ has come out with a complete ground up build - it's an entirely new machine, and it is formidable.
It fascinates me how individuals can speculate about performance, quality and aesthetics without ever having used the printer.
There is no way any other current printer can improve over the Z9+ in terms of Black and White, and it will be a photo finish in the area of color, with the Z9+ coming in very strong. Speed? Fuhgeddaboudit.
Without rolling up sleeves and getting dirty, paying dues on understanding and operating the printer, there is no joy, period. With any printer.
FWIW, YMMV.
Best,
Mark
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I would love to have someone make me a print from my monochrome file to see about that. I’ll be glad to pay for it. I’ll believe they have matched the new Epsons and Canons when I see direct comparisons from the same file, much less the highlight rendition of K7 without even one light black.
I don’t know about the new Canons because I haven’t had access to one, but Epson has come a long way with black and white quality in the Surecolor Series and the quality of totally neutralized very sharp results from even the little P 800 out of QTR. Problem is QTR is not usable on the very recent 12 color Epsons that I would probably want. So then you are looking at Studio Print.
A agree about pixel peeping zooms. It has no value to me. Those files he posted could have been equalized through good sharpening it looks like to me. I’ve done too many prints of my own on the Z3200 and the Epson 7890 with oem inks to worry about that comparison. In real world work they are very close with a slight edge to Epson with very small prints in my experience on some papers. What is important now is what the new printers do.
John
There is no way any other current printer can improve over the Z9+ in terms of Black and White, and it will be a photo finish in the area of color.
FWIW, YMMV.
Best,
Mark
[/quote]
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I would love to have someone make me a print from my monochrome file to see about that. I’ll be glad to pay for it. I’ll believe they have matched the new Epsons and Canons when I see direct comparisons from the same file, much less the highlight rendition of K7 without even one light black.
John -
Send me three 13 x 19 sheets of whatever paper you want, and the digital B&W file, and I'll print your image for you:
1. Custom paper name
2. Calibration
3. 464 patch standard Z9+ ICC profile
4. Print
Then I'll send it back to you. This will represent the base line of the Z9+ ability to print B+W. (Obviously larger profiles will have better results but I want you to see what the Z9+ can do natively.)
Best,
Mark
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Mark,
I appreciate it.
I’ll put that paper and file in the mail to you.
I do realize that when the mechanism for making larger targets is worked out we will see some improvements.
Can’t help but be super curious as to how this new inkset is going to shake out.
I’m one of the odd characters that is more picky about bw than color.
John
John -
Send me three 13 x 19 sheets of whatever paper you want, and the digital B&W file, and I'll print your image for you:
1. Custom paper name
2. Calibration
3. 464 patch standard Z9+ ICC profile
4. Print
Then I'll send it back to you. This will represent the base line of the Z9+ ability to print B+W. (Obviously larger profiles will have better results but I want you to see what the Z9+ can do natively.)
Best,
Mark
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The precision of the way the ink drops are rendered and the resulting image quality is greatly effected by the number of patches used in making the profile and the media used. How many patches were you using? Of course you replace heads occasionally. That’s the nature of the system and the heads are very inexpensive and don’t clogg.
As to how the Z9 holds up in this area of resolution and whether they can be run in bidirectional mode effectively will be interesting to see. I suspect Epson is in first place followed by Canon, then HP.
But we’ll see. Clearly catching up in the speed department was a major concern for HP or they would have been completely out of the running.
John
I had used some RIPs e.g., GMG, ErgoSoft, EFI Fiery, Onyx. Now mainly use Caldera. I made my own charts for every steps to optimize high resolution and big gamut inkjet prints in light ink transition, linearization, total ink limit and ICC. The biggest ICC chart I made is 6720 patches measured by a barbieri Spectro LFP. So, yes, I have a little understanding how to fine tune a inkjet print. But we are talking about new Z9+, sorry for my Z3200 experience mess up the discussion of this topic.
I'm used to evaluate a print, or a paper and printer, by science and logic. Perception or feeling is assistant but not protagonist. That's why I pointed HP has some weakness may not be improved in new printer. If that offends anyone, I apologize. It is all trade-off, there is no perfect printer. HP is good at ink saving and longevity. Epson has biggest gamut and finest detail. Canon lent me a printer for testing several weeks. I love it's an operator friendly machine in many ways. It depends on which is most important to you. Again, it's trade-off. I can accept some weakness and work with it, but I won't call it doesn't exist.
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Kang,
Are you in Mainland?
I totally understand where your coming from. You are more of an imaging and color scientist than I am for sure. My background is in other realms of visual art. I only learn as much science and tech as I have to.
I agree that we are all facing trade offs and new innovations in all of these platforms present new things to consider, some matter more to one person and others matter more to an other, with a different set of requirements for a different set of objectives. It’s very complicated, equally involving technology, commerce, and art.
I weekly use several inksets with all three of the major brands of printers and honestly I can say I love them all and can make great lasting prints with them all.
The factors that we have discussed, dither resolution, ink longevity, gamut, black and white capability, speed, hardware dependability in the long term, software reliability, ease of profiling, clogging of print heads, cost of replacing heads, future support, all play a role.
Since none of these companies can do everything perfectly the best we can do is share our own experiences with the little knowledge we accumulate from actual real world printmaking.
We are lucky to live in a time when someone in Atlanta Georgia, Florida, The Netherlands, China, Brazil, Boston, and many other places can compare notes about our routines and tests, using the same or similar methods without leaving our studios.p. In that respect we are very lucky. Years ago on sites like this we shared actual prints with each other that made things much more understandable. Today we try to do it with words, and that has its limitations.
John
I had used some RIPs e.g., GMG, ErgoSoft, EFI Fiery, Onyx. Now mainly use Caldera. I made my own charts for every steps to optimize high resolution and big gamut inkjet prints in light ink transition, linearization, total ink limit and ICC. The biggest ICC chart I made is 6720 patches measured by a barbieri Spectro LFP. So, yes, I have a little understanding how to fine tune a inkjet print. But we are talking about new Z9+, sorry for my Z3200 experience mess up the discussion of this topic.
I'm used to evaluate a print, or a paper and printer, by science and logic. Perception or feeling is assistant but not protagonist. That's why I pointed HP has some weakness may not be improved in new printer. If that offends anyone, I apologize. It is all trade-off, there is no perfect printer. HP is good at ink saving and longevity. Epson has biggest gamut and finest detail. Canon lent me a printer for testing several weeks. I love it's an operator friendly machine in many ways. It depends on which is most important to you. Again, it's trade-off. I can accept some weakness and work with it, but I won't call it doesn't exist.
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Kang,
Are you in Mainland?
I totally understand where your coming from. You are more of an imaging and color scientist than I am for sure. My background is in other realms of visual art. I only learn as much science and tech as I have to.
I agree that we are all facing trade offs and new innovations in all of these platforms present new things to consider, some matter more to one person and others matter more to an other, with a different set of requirements for a different set of objectives. It’s very complicated, equally involving technology, commerce, and art.
Nope, I'm not in China. I'm Taiwanese. (BTW, "Kang Wei" is forename)
Thank you for that kind words, I study and research just for hobby. Although My job is marketing and selling inkjet products, it doesn't need too much serious knowledge about color science. (ashamed)
Lets focus on Z9+. Look forward to see some prints and data sharing.
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I've been using HP Z Series printers since they first came out (still have original Z3100 but don't use it).
(snip)
FWIW, YMMV.
Best,
Mark
Mark,
The video is very well done from my perspective. I usually avoid them as I am more a reader. I like to set my own tempo and skip text where it is less interesting. Voice over and music in videos are usually of the shouting kind. Nothing of that in your video.
Your video and the discussions here convinced me of the main HP Designjet Z9+ qualities. For me there are some practical things to resolve before I make a decision. The profiling target size will be solved in time I expect. Pricing here is reasonable given the integrated spectrometer + profiling software like it was with the other Z's. On top the universally usable print head, which I noticed early on as being a big step forward in maintenance service and costs. The more when your shop is hours or days away from the main distribution/service centers, not a problem here though.
Still intrigued whether the head holds any fluids while packaged, I would not expect that and otherwise I can not understand the technology. I am also curious about the two sealed ink slots at the left side, the optional gloss enhancer ink has been discussed but is there more to be expected? Also is there any sign that it measures the media transport optically the way the Z6xxx printers do it?
I think the spindles have changed for this new generation of printers. Pity as I use 6 spindles for my Z3200. making media changes easier. I have quite a stock of inks now, mainly in 772 carts so I can continue with the Z3200 for some time to come. And it ain't broken yet..... For the volume printed these days I do not need a faster printer, semi pensioner that I am.
On the print qualities like smoothness and detail. I recall with the introduction of the first Canon iPF models and the HP Z3100 around 2006 that there were more comments on the coarseness of the prints made with the Canons, while it used a uniform 4 picoliter droplet, than on the Z3100 that had several inks squirted with 6 picoliter and the rest with 4 picoliter droplets. The Epson wide formats only use the 3.5 picoliter droplet throughout at the highest (and slowest) printer quality setting, otherwise it adds the bigger droplets as well. So not that much difference and certainly not when the paper surface does not make the highest resolution choice worthwhile. The next Canon iPF models had better weaving/stochastic addressing of the droplets and nobody complained anymore, droplet size still 4 picoliter. Epson responded with a wider set of inks in their next generations, the gamut of the Canons and HPs did not go unnoticed. I did not read the HP Z9+ head specs and ink channel differences thoroughly but with the universal head for all channels usable I would expect it can use the dual droplet size for all ink channels.
I think in general that the development of how the droplets are arranged in cells on the media to represent image pixels has been fantastic over the two decades I used wide formats. The IQ limitation today is in the expected printer's speed. Droplet size at 3.5 or bigger can still be precisely addressed at those speeds and are small enough not to be seen by the average human. Thermal heads with their higher quantity of nozzles per ink channel can easily compete with the piëzo heads heads higher rate of firing + their variety of droplet sizes.
Drivers and print applications also improved much over the two decades. we learned our lessons in this forum on what to upload to the OEM driver or RIP, which resampling methods can be used and how to deal with sharpening for print. I will not exchange my workflow with Qimage Ultimate + HP OEM driver for a RIP as I had a bad experience of the implementation of the Z3100/Z3200 in the Wasatch SoftRip. It simply did not do an UCR as thorough like the HP OEM drivers had and the image quality suffered by that; neutrals less neutral, more bleeding and besides IQ the ink consumption was higher. Getting N-channel printer/media profiling correct for/in a RIP is an art and science thing in itself. I asked Wasatch Inc to do it again and it became worse. I think there are companies like Ergosoft capable and willing to do this but I am less impressed by shops that do this in house.
What I appreciated most of all in the Z's has been the consistency of the prints over time. There are critical customers that ordered the same prints for 10 years and I could deliver them the same print every time. Onboard calibration praised, Qimage's interactice jobs log too. If it went wrong it was usually the media with a quality issue or no longer available. Yesterday I had banding in a black print, I really can not recall when that has happened the last time. Cleaned all the heads and while I expected that I should have to replace the black head as it must be something like 3 years old, it just recovered. I think a thin string from cleaning my hot 3D printer head was transferred to the media roll when it was put on the spindle, user's fault. I have a spare HP GB Z3200 head from 2014, I did not find a reason to use it. The printer is still going strong, repeats my customers prints fine, the main reasons a Z9+ purchase may wait.
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
March 2017 update, 750+ inkjet media white spectral plots
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Mark,
The video is very well done from my perspective. I usually avoid them as I am more a reader. I like to set my own tempo and skip text where it is less interesting. Voice over and music in videos are usually of the shouting kind. Nothing of that in your video.
Your video and the discussions here convinced me of the main HP Designjet Z9+ qualities. For me there are some practical things to resolve before I make a decision. The profiling target size will be solved in time I expect. Pricing here is reasonable given the integrated spectrometer + profiling software like it was with the other Z's. On top the universally usable print head, which I noticed early on as being a big step forward in maintenance service and costs. The more when your shop is hours or days away from the main distribution/service centers, not a problem here though.
Thanks Ernst,
Everyone is taking a wait and see approach to all of the printers it seems, these days.
Which is fine, of course.
I had an opportunity to film an HP technician taking apart a Z9+ to change out a hard drive and the JetDirect card.
I was amazed at what a jump in quality the Z9+ is over the Z3200. The entire power supply, hard drive and ethernet card are all tied together in a large rectangular box that looks like a PC carcas. Unlike the Z3200, where 2 thumbscrews loosens the "blade" containing the hard drive and Lan board, easily removed, the Z9+ is a horse of another color entirely. I suspect it is not as easy to work on as the Z3200 printers are, yet time will tell of course. It's my hope that these printers, being more robust might not require the kind of fixes the Z3200 has.
In regard to your question about the generic or universal printheads, they do ship with fluid in them, and they have an expiration date.
I pulled a Gloss Enhancer / Gray printhead and did a stamp-test on it. Very different from a Z3200 printhead - seems like much smaller nozzles.
(the blotch was significantly smaller).
The Universal print head gloss enhancer stamp-tests similar to the Z3200, but the gray does not show up.
The comparison of the stamp-tests is below - the cyan is a stamp-test of a Z3200 printhead with LM not working.
That is how Z3200 printheads working correctly stamp-test - lots of ink flowing, conversely, none.
Not sure what the fluid is in the Z9+ printhead Ernst - you would guess better than me I think.
Hope this answers some of your questions, Ernst.
Best,
Mark
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Here is the case containing power supply, hard drive, enclosed fan, Jet Direct card and Main PCA board with cable routing.
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Mark:
That sure simplifies servicing and trouble shooting! Just swap out one module, and your problems are solved! ;-)
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Mark:
That sure simplifies servicing and trouble shooting! Just swap out one module, and your problems are solved! ;-)
It would seem that way, but I think HP expects their service technicians to unscrew 20 screws and replace components in the field.
In some cases they could do what you suggest, but I'm not sure yet - too early to tell.
Mark
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Are the sheet loading procedures improved with the Z9?
That's my main peeve with my 3200. Loading sheets can result in annoying skew errors.
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Are the sheet loading procedures improved with the Z9?
That's my main peeve with my 3200. Loading sheets can result in annoying skew errors.
Hi Peter,
No, and yes.
Go here to see my easy fix to make sheet loading on the Z9+ easy:
Load sheets easy on z9+ (https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=130954.msg1120654#msg1120654)
There are some photos and an explanation there.
Pretty much an improvement, but it’s a new and different machine.
Mark
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Thanks, Mark.
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I’m sold. My 2009 Z3200ps 24” though still running, the power supply fan is driving me nuts and I am not skilled enough to replace it.
I’m in the USA can someone recommend a good HP dealer that can help me out and of course give me a good price?
Lastly I assume if I am printing using Photo Black that the GE upgrade is necessary ??
Thanks
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I’m sold. My 2009 Z3200ps 24” though still running, the power supply fan is driving me nuts and I am not skilled enough to replace it.
I’m in the USA can someone recommend a good HP dealer that can help me out and of course give me a good price?
Lastly I assume if I am printing using Photo Black that the GE upgrade is necessary ??
Thanks
Perhaps buying direct from HP would be a good idea? I'm sure IT supplies has the printer or can get it. There's also B&H, Adorama and Amazon.
As far as getting a good price, to my knowledge, there have not yet been any sales.
I recommend the Gloss Enhancer upgrade and it be installed at the same time as the other cartridges. It comes with startup carts, so probably a good idea to get a full set of inks as well.
Hope this becomes a good replacement for you.
Best,
Mark
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Thanks Mark,
I am always looking for a deal lol.... I would purchase from HP direct yet i hate to have to pay sales tax on the unit. That leaves me with Adorama I guess...
Forgot to ask. Which papers are you running on the new Z9 for B&W and Color....
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Thanks Mark,
I am always looking for a deal lol.... I would purchase from HP direct yet i hate to have to pay sales tax on the unit. That leaves me with Adorama I guess...
Forgot to ask. Which papers are you running on the new Z9 for B&W and Color....
Hi Steven - I just answered your questions that you asked on the video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vDan9Ijtyg which also answer your questions asked here.
There's a lot of info in my response - hope it helps. Also, yes, I hear you - it's important to get the best prices possible.
Best,
Mark
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Thanks Mark, I did indeed see your response...
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Not sure what the fluid is in the Z9+ printhead Ernst - you would guess better than me I think.
Hope this answers some of your questions, Ernst.
Best,
Mark
The spindels are different compared to the Z3200?
On the heads: after my message I heard from a Canon user that a Canon head is also universal and can be put in one of the two slots to get filled by the inks of that slot. Probably squirts the fluid into a maintenance tank and then gets filled with the ink. He told me that when the printer decides that the head is at the end of its life, the ink is withdrawn again. Seemed unlikely to me. He also used a resetter on the head and could print longer but at some point odd stripes appeared (about 4 months later).
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
March 2017 update, 750+ inkjet media white spectral plots
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Yes, the Canon IPF large format heads have been universal since the 8300 at least. They can be either right or left, but once they are initialized you can’t switch positions.
Sometimes after the error message of failure and the printer stops, you can restart and continue printing if too many channels are not blocked. But that most often leads to banding unless it’s a color not being used at the moment.
If you print out the diagnostic chart you can see which channels and head is bad. It wastes quite a bit of ink changing heads and won’t let you do it if the ink cart or carts are too low. I’m sure the excess ink used in the process goes in the waste tank. You can see the levels go down. It doesn’t waste as much as an Epson head change but it wastes a lot.
The HPZs wastes no ink changing heads really as the heads hold very little ink. And of course they are about $80.00 US.
John
The spindels are different compared to the Z3200?
On the heads: after my message I heard from a Canon user that a Canon head is also universal and can be put in one of the two slots to get filled by the inks of that slot. Probably squirts the fluid into a maintenance tank and then gets filled with the ink. He told me that when the printer decides that the head is at the end of its life, the ink is withdrawn again. Seemed unlikely to me. He also used a resetter on the head and could print longer but at some point odd stripes appeared (about 4 months later).
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
March 2017 update, 750+ inkjet media white spectral plots
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The spindels are different compared to the Z3200?
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
March 2017 update, 750+ inkjet media white spectral plots
The spindles are different compared to the Z3200's Ernst. They have to be, because the Z9+ employs a geared drive to take up slack when loading the paper. There's a toothed gear on the spindle itself that mates with the driving gear on the printer. The spindle of the 24" is much beefier than the Z3200 24" spindle. Serious upgrade.
Could you adapt the spindles? Yeah, probably, by putting a gear cap on your z3200 spindles. The caps could be 3D printed, unless that part could be bought from HP. So good news I think.
Mark
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So, I have looked at 2 24" printers, the Canon Pro-2000, and the replacement Pro-2100, and the HP Z9+, coming from an Epson Stylus Pro 4900, and will probably order the Z9+ in the next week,
but want to get the best possible prints with my new printer so
I am editing my pics in LightRoom 6 Classic for the most part, but at times use Aurora HDR, but only print using LR Classic print module
Does anyone have other suggestions as to which program to use to print as I really want my pictures to PoP?
Stephen
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Pop is not a viable technical term and should never be used to describe print quality.
So, I have looked at 2 24" printers, the Canon Pro-2000, and the replacement Pro-2100, and the HP Z9+, coming from an Epson Stylus Pro 4900, and will probably order the Z9+ in the next week,
but want to get the best possible prints with my new printer so
I am editing my pics in LightRoom 6 Classic for the most part, but at times use Aurora HDR, but only print using LR Classic print module
Does anyone have other suggestions as to which program to use to print as I really want my pictures to PoP?
Stephen
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Pop is not a viable technical term and should never be used to describe print quality.
That is a very true statement and I do apologize
I should not use the word "pop"
but what Print programs do you use out there for consistent results from a calibrated monitor
Steve
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I use QImage hosted by Photoshop for my HPZ printers.
You can do a search for Q Image on this site and read a lot about its attributes.
John
Pop is not a viable technical term and should never be used to describe print quality.
That is a very true statement and I do apologize
I should not use the word "pop"
but what Print programs do you use out there for consistent results from a calibrated monitor
Steve
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Pop is not a viable technical term and should never be used to describe print quality.
That is a very true statement and I do apologize
I should not use the word "pop"
but what Print programs do you use out there for consistent results from a calibrated monitor
Steve
Steve:
I also use Q-image to print to my HP printers. The interface is oddball, and takes getting used to. What I like about it, the program resamples your images on the fly for optimum image quality. It also does very high quality output sharpening while it resamples your image. You have a choice of how much of this output sharpening you want applied.
When you talk about images "Popping", youi are probablyi referring to optimizing your files in Lightroom for the effect you are looking for. The "Popping"quality you desire can only be obtained with experience. Only you can determine when you have "over enhanced"your image with saturation, and contrast and other tools. They might "Pop", but is it what you really want?
What I really like about the HP Z 3XXXX printers is the ability to print a neutral looking image, due to using neutral tonal removal and substituting gray and Lt gray inks. This also might account for the great fade resistance the HP inks have compared to Canon and Epson.
Wish you good a good learning experience with the newZ9!
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Mark, great information from a trusted source. Really enjoyed seeing your studio and work. And personally, love the Bossa Nova.
I’m going to take a final crack at fixing my Z3200 today and depending on how that goes, likely buy a new 44” printer. I’ve mostly skillfully tore it pretty completely apart and repaired it over the years — “mostly” being the operative term and now it’s just getting old and cranky with a few screws missing. I’m inclined to go with the Z9+, possibly a Canon, but have a few questions on the Z9+ if you don’t mind.
1. Did HP ever fix the Windows interface? Could use a MacBook for printing but with pain in the workflow.
2. Any news on upgraded patch sets? 440 seems like a low number from what I’m accustomed to with Z3200 workarounds. I could keep my z3200 in the garage assuming I get it operational, but again the pain factor arises and it would be in the garage for space reasons.
3. Lastly, one thing I’ve loved about the Z3200 is the ability to fix it myself. I’m in a pretty remote place and will want to do that at some point in time. I see reports here that that might be a bit harder with the Z9 engineering. I have faith HP, LPS and hopefully you will provide Internet means to do that, but any general prognosis or feelings on that would be appreciated especially in relation to Canon if possible.
Thanks
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My Z3200 died, I contacted HP in order to speak with a rep reference purchasing the Z9. I left various messages, time passed and I decided to buy the Canon Pro 4000. Wouldn't you know that the day the Pro4000 was delivered I got a call from HP asking if I wanted to purchase a Z9. I consider HP to make great printers, but they are a little slow in responding.. Oh well..
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I have a like new z3200 for sale in Pa.
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This thread makes me sad that HP got out of the pro desktop market.
Sure bringing one to market with a spectro would likely be to niche on price terms, but one without could still bring some of the other innovations and of course competition is good.
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My Epson 3800 died recently and I was able to sell the printer and inks on Craigslist just so I could clear some space for the new printer.
Very favorably impressed with the Z9+ and there is a rebate going on this month (Sept. 2020) so I may make the purchase later today.
Just curious about the test prints that Mark Lindquist made for John on the 24" Z9+ using standard profiling. I never saw a follow-up post with the results. John, would you have the time to post about your impression of the B&W prints on Mark's Z9+?
Thanks
Ken Susman
Mendocino, CA
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just plunked down the $
looking forward to the HP Z9+ 24"
Ken
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If you do a search on this site you can read my comments. In short, even with removing the light gray the tonal results from my file were excellent on matte and Platine satin fiber. very neutral also with surprisingly good resolution and high value separation and dmax.
The one disturbing aspect though is that on the Platine and I assume all the fiber gloss media, the gloss enhancer coat is terrible. This is true with both color and black and white prints.
As Mark McCormick pointed out after doing a lot of subtle profiling, trying to find an acceptable media setting, it looks like they have set this media configuration for rc media. You don’t have the ability to create custom ink limits with density sliders like we do with the Z3200 and Z3100 machines for various media. It appears that HP just stopped halfway through the development of the media ink controls. If you only use matte and rc media it performs very well, but for someone like me who prints 3/4 of my work on fiber gloss media, its not even close to being acceptable. Now if you go through the extra step of applying a post coating with a solvent uv spray, the prints are perfectly fine. But that is not going to cut it for me to have to do that on every job, especially large prints that are expensive and a real pain to produce that way.
I do hope HP gets it together to provide adequate firmware/driver updates to fix this situation. If they haven’t done that by now I certainly can’t figure out what they are thinking, especially since there are so many other nice things about this tech. Canon had a very similar issue with the gloss enhancer function with fiber gloss on their new LF printers and apparently fixed the problem with an updated media setting option.
You should also search on this site for Mark MCs detailed posts about his tests with profiling this printer in regard to color gamut and ink limiting.
quote author=chromebright link=topic=132493.msg1187813#msg1187813 date=1601471761]
My Epson 3800 died recently and I was able to sell the printer and inks on Craigslist just so I could clear some space for the new printer.
Very favorably impressed with the Z9+ and there is a rebate going on this month (Sept. 2020) so I may make the purchase later today.
Just curious about the test prints that Mark Lindquist made for John on the 24" Z9+ using standard profiling. I never saw a follow-up post with the results. John, would you have the time to post about your impression of the B&W prints on Mark's Z9+?
Thanks
Ken Susman
Mendocino, CA
[/quote]
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John: thanks for the reply. I have the Z9+ on the way. I do most B&W on matte paper (velvet fine art) but some on Epson Exhibition Fiber. I did order the gloss enhancer option. I'll be sure to evaluate. My volume of printing is small so spraying with protective coat afterwards isn't a big deal.
Ken
Mendocino, CA
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I have been trying to contact HP in Canada or the US about purchasing a Z9+ 44" to replace my Canon Pro-2000.
The sales team for HP is non existent and I think I will just give up. All I get are emails returns from people that sound like they are not from North America in a tone that is as if they were trying to sell a $70 desk top consumer printer. I actually got one reply; "We don't have option or we can't request to send you a test print out of our printers due to our back up 30 days return policy, however, Designjet are excluded due to its size." No kidding!
If that is their best effort to sell me thousands of dollars in printer and inks then what would the service be like. Am I missing something? Is there a secret contact number? Or are HP just a bunch of idiots to stay away from?
One item I am trying to compare is cost of print head replacements. I just replaced the Canon Pro-2000 and the combined total of head plus waste tank space plus ink loss was about $1400 CA. Thats a lot on a head that only printed 185 square meters. I was also trying to get a feel of bronzing differences.
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That’s really scary. I wouldn’t expect much out of them until this pandemic is over, probably a year from now.
I have been trying to contact HP in Canada or the US about purchasing a Z9+ 44" to replace my Canon Pro-2000.
The sales team for HP is non existent and I think I will just give up. All I get are emails returns from people that sound like they are not from North America in a tone that is as if they were trying to sell a $70 desk top consumer printer. I actually got one reply; "We don't have option or we can't request to send you a test print out of our printers due to our back up 30 days return policy, however, Designjet are excluded due to its size." No kidding!
If that is their best effort to sell me thousands of dollars in printer and inks then what would the service be like. Am I missing something? Is there a secret contact number? Or are HP just a bunch of idiots to stay away from?
One item I am trying to compare is cost of print head replacements. I just replaced the Canon Pro-2000 and the combined total of head plus waste tank space plus ink loss was about $1400 CA. Thats a lot on a head that only printed 185 square meters. I was also trying to get a feel of bronzing differences.
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I have been trying to contact HP in Canada or the US about purchasing a Z9+ 44" to replace my Canon Pro-2000.
If that is their best effort to sell me thousands of dollars in printer and inks then what would the service be like. Am I missing something? Is there a secret contact number? Or are HP just a bunch of idiots to stay away from?
Anyone buying a new HP Z9+ is in for a ride with HP at this point due to Covid-19. Don’t ask for test/sample prints - what they send out sucks. Do your homework, compare between other manufacturers models, research the threads on this forum, and pick your poison. All printers have issues. HP has excellent technical support - actually some of the best, but not if you yell and scream at them. If you can’t see your way clear to establish proper contact with them, perhaps this is not the printer for you.
\Good luck finding a replacement printer, sir.
Mark
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Anyone buying a new HP Z9+ is in for a ride with HP at this point due to Covid-19. Don’t ask for test/sample prints - what they send out sucks. Do your homework, compare between other manufacturers models, research the threads on this forum, and pick your poison. All printers have issues. HP has excellent technical support - actually some of the best, but not if you yell and scream at them. If you can’t see your way clear to establish proper contact with them, perhaps this is not the printer for you.
\Good luck finding a replacement printer, sir.
Mark
No one said anything about yelling and screaming, I can't even get to first base to ask valid pre sales questions.
Your reply sounds unnecessarily sarcastic when I was looking for real help to actually talk to some one. Sorry if I misunderstood your tone, sir.
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No one said anything about yelling and screaming, I can't even get to first base to ask valid pre sales questions.
Your reply sounds unnecessarily sarcastic when I was looking for real help to actually talk to some one. Sorry if I misunderstood your tone, sir.
You have misunderstood my tone Doctor White. I think I have not misunderstood yours, however: ( “ or are HP a bunch of idiots to stay away from?” )
I stand by all that I have said - this may not be the printer for you. If you exhibit this level of frustration evident in your original post here on this thread I started, discussing the HP Z9+, I seriously question the ability required to deal with the quirks of these finicky printers.
Apologies if I have offended you - I’m really trying to help you, given my level of experience with these printers. When I say good luck, I mean it, fully.
Mark
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As an owner of Z3100 and 3200 printers for 12 years, I can honestly say that I think HP sales and especially marketing is absolutely bottom of the barrel. The company has many strengths, however, and their engineering and manufacturing (at least regarding Designjets) are right at the top of my list. It would be nice if the suits held their own with the engineers, but I've resigned myself to the realization that their corporate culture and decades of near rudderless decision making will not likely change in my lifetime. It's obviously a tradeoff, but once you are less dependent on the weak bits, it is a mostly positive experience. I still have some questions that I'd like to see resolved, and a perfectly fine Z3200 that will last me for a number of years still (knock on wood), but I'm likely to stay with the HP platform for printing based on the balance of positives and negatives. Best of luck with your quest.
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You have misunderstood my tone Doctor White. I think I have not misunderstood yours, however: ( “ or are HP a bunch of idiots to stay away from?” )
I stand by all that I have said - this may not be the printer for you. If you exhibit this level of frustration evident in your original post here on this thread I started, discussing the HP Z9+, I seriously question the ability required to deal with the quirks of these finicky printers.
Apologies if I have offended you - I’m really trying to help you, given my level of experience with these printers. When I say good luck, I mean it, fully.
Mark
I accept that I misunderstood your tone.
I still hold out that if you are in a position to pass on any useful contacts, given your apparent closer association to HP, I would be appreciative.
I think anyone would have frustrations with what I have so far experienced with HP sales. But my capacity to deal with complex issues is much greater than your suggestion, without which I would not have obtaining my degree and practicing for 28 years before an early retirement, to then pursue my love of photography full time. I have owned 4 Epson large format printers before my current Canon Pro-2000 / Imageprint combo, and am reasonably experienced with the challenges of printing. I can guarantee that the complexity of printing is not on the same level as that of surgery.
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I accept that I misunderstood your tone.
I still hold out that if you are in a position to pass on any useful contacts, given your apparent closer association to HP, I would be appreciative.
I think anyone would have frustrations with what I have so far experienced with HP sales. But my capacity to deal with complex issues is much greater than your suggestion, without which I would not have obtaining my degree and practicing for 28 years before an early retirement, to then pursue my love of photography full time. I have owned 4 Epson large format printers before my current Canon Pro-2000 / Imageprint combo, and am reasonably experienced with the challenges of printing. I can guarantee that the complexity of printing is not on the same level as that of surgery.
My contacts are at a much higher level than sales, and beneath that are Tier 1-Tier 3 engineers. I don’t have sales contacts. What are your specific questions beyond what a print head set costs? Allow me to refer to a long time respected forum member, Neil Snape, who has done very thorough review of the Z9+ on his Website: Neil Snape Z9+ Review (https://neilsnape.com/hp-designjet-z9-plus-dr-review/)
In addition, you could try calling tech support and tell them you want to buy a printer but you haven’t been able to find anyone who can answer your questions.
If you ask your specific questions, perhaps by starting a new thread, it is likely you might get answers to your questions. As for the cost of printheads, this information can be found by googling the topic.
Best wishes,
Mark
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As an owner of Z3100 and 3200 printers for 12 years, I can honestly say that I think HP sales and especially marketing is absolutely bottom of the barrel. The company has many strengths, however, and their engineering and manufacturing (at least regarding Designjets) are right at the top of my list. It would be nice if the suits held their own with the engineers, but I've resigned myself to the realization that their corporate culture and decades of near rudderless decision making will not likely change in my lifetime. It's obviously a tradeoff, but once you are less dependent on the weak bits, it is a mostly positive experience. I still have some questions that I'd like to see resolved, and a perfectly fine Z3200 that will last me for a number of years still (knock on wood), but I'm likely to stay with the HP platform for printing based on the balance of positives and negatives. Best of luck with your quest.
+1 Ron :-\
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You could try this fellow on Vancouver Island. He helped me out when I owned a z3100.
David (Dave) G. Trufen I Hewlett Packard Certified Professional I Office 250.749.7296 I Cell 250.732.3663
www.printerworld.com I HP DesignJet Solutions I HP LaserJet Solutions I Toll Free 877.747.7468
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You could try this fellow on Vancouver Island. He helped me out when I owned a z3100.
David (Dave) G. Trufen I Hewlett Packard Certified Professional I Office 250.749.7296 I Cell 250.732.3663
www.printerworld.com I HP DesignJet Solutions I HP LaserJet Solutions I Toll Free 877.747.7468
Thanks, I will look into the contact tomorrow. I gather you know I am on Vancouver Island as well?
Your image gallery resonates with me, very nice collection. Out of interest, do you still print your own work, and if so, your current printer choice?
Regards
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Thank you for the feedback on my work. Yes I still print my work. I believe its important to control the print quality. Lately we have sold some extremely large prints, which we had to use a outside printer.
I currently use the Canon IPf8400. I am not sure what I will do if it fails. The new Canon’s inkset has poorer ink longevity compared to my printer. Epson’s have a tendency to clog. My testing of this new z resulted in poorer gamut compared to my printer. HP used my paper Hahnemuhle Photo rag Baryta my images from a Phase One XF IQ3 100 camera and they had my prints for reference. HP had four different labs try and match my prints. The last lab being the one in Barcelona. I still have the test prints. Maybe if they sent me the printer I could match my prints.
I didn’t know you lived on Vancouver Island. We live on Salt Spring Island.
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As someone who has also used the three three major brands for over 12 years I totally agree with this comment. I could have written it myself. Mark L. has done more by himself to explore and explain the functionality and maintenance of the Z series that the whole of corporate staff combined in my experience. Look at his website, then look at Hps website and that becomes pretty obvious.
John
As an owner of Z3100 and 3200 printers for 12 years, I can honestly say that I think HP sales and especially marketing is absolutely bottom of the barrel. The company has many strengths, however, and their engineering and manufacturing (at least regarding Designjets) are right at the top of my list. It would be nice if the suits held their own with the engineers, but I've resigned myself to the realization that their corporate culture and decades of near rudderless decision making will not likely change in my lifetime. It's obviously a tradeoff, but once you are less dependent on the weak bits, it is a mostly positive experience. I still have some questions that I'd like to see resolved, and a perfectly fine Z3200 that will last me for a number of years still (knock on wood), but I'm likely to stay with the HP platform for printing based on the balance of positives and negatives. Best of luck with your quest.
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As someone who has also used the three three major brands for over 12 years I totally agree with this comment. I could have written it myself. Mark L. has done more by himself to explore and explain the functionality and maintenance of the Z series that the whole of corporate staff combined in my experience. Look at his website, then look at Hps website and that becomes pretty obvious.
John
Between Ernst Dinkla, John Dean, myself and several others here on LuLa, (too numerous to name), we’ve managed to provide a cobbled semblance of informal support for the Z series printers. This combined expertise, especially with Mark McCormick, Geraldo Garcia, and others, who have pushed the envelope in terms of custom profiles has made the Z all that it can be, a force to be reckoned with. There is no question that fine art printing demographics have changed, and HP corporate has other more lucrative areas to concentrate on, namely 3D, Dye Sub, and Latex printers that are a completely different market segment. I’m hopeful, along with everyone else here on LuLa that HP will continue to make these wonderful printers and inks well into the future even though HP marches to the beat of a different drummer. It’s a privilege to give back some of what I’ve gotten here on LuLa, and although I don’t have time to keep up with it all, particularly the emails, that I get regularly, hopefully my website Z3200.com will help to keep many of us afloat as the Z3100 and Z3200 printers begin to fade into printer oblivion. What many don’t take into consideration, is that these printers can act as stand - alone automated spectrophotometers, which, when coupled with the hobbled Z9+ printers makes for a formidable tool in the hands of dedicated fine art printer professionals. Kudos to Geraldo Garcia for opening our eyes to the Z’s immense capabilities. HP printers are not for everyone particularly as they can be fiddley and sometimes aggravatingly frustrating. But all printers are difficult in their own ways. The z9+ Is in its first iteration. Let’s hope that HP continues to advance this system similarly as they have the Z3100 and Z3200 printers. Thanks to the unnamed who also support this printer here: Kers, John Nollendorf, LPS computers, and many many others who continue to keep the Z Series a viable option. Enjoy it while it lasts folks. The end is near. Thanks HP for making what to thousands of independent studio photographers and fine art printers has been “the little engine that could.” Long may they run.\\\\\\\\\\\
Thanks -
Mark
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"The end is near?" aaaaggghhhh!!!
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I wanted to comment on this forum how helpful Mark Lindquist was in spending considerable time with me to outline the benefits and frustrations of running a Z9 to assist in my journey to considering one for myself. He provided an in depth look well beyond that of the glossy brochures and sales contacts. He is a great resource and I felt bad in taking up so much of his time. Thanks again!
And also thanks to the contacts that Steven Friedman provided me to make contact with an actual HP sales representative. The HP sales that deal with these printers seem to have secret emails and phone numbers that are only shared on the dark web. Once you get an actual sales representative they seem quite helpful and realistic.
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How much longer should we expect to be able buy Z3200 inks and heads? There are a lot of these printers out there around the world. I would love to have 2 , 3 or 4 more years if possible.
I wanted to comment on this forum how helpful Mark Lindquist was in spending considerable time with me to outline the benefits and frustrations of running a Z9 to assist in my journey to considering one for myself. He provided an in depth look well beyond that of the glossy brochures and sales contacts. He is a great resource and I felt bad in taking up so much of his time. Thanks again!
And also thanks to the contacts that Steven Friedman provided me to make contact with an actual HP sales representative. The HP sales that deal with these printers seem to have secret emails and phone numbers that are only shared on the dark web. Once you get an actual sales representative they seem quite helpful and realistic.
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I was under the impression that it was atleast 5 years from 'end of life' which, If I remember correctly was announced last summerish. However, the price of the ink has gone up about 30% over the last year so the end of life guarantee doesn't include any price guarantees.
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Thank you for the feedback on my work. Yes I still print my work. I believe its important to control the print quality. Lately we have sold some extremely large prints, which we had to use a outside printer.
I currently use the Canon IPf8400. I am not sure what I will do if it fails. The new Canon’s inkset has poorer ink longevity compared to my printer. Epson’s have a tendency to clog. My testing of this new z resulted in poorer gamut compared to my printer. HP used my paper Hahnemuhle Photo rag Baryta my images from a Phase One XF IQ3 100 camera and they had my prints for reference. HP had four different labs try and match my prints. The last lab being the one in Barcelona. I still have the test prints. Maybe if they sent me the printer I could match my prints.
I didn’t know you lived on Vancouver Island. We live on Salt Spring Island.
I also have an 8400 which I am very fond of. I have replaced both print heads due to limited printer usage for very little cost. After re-calibration I am spot on monitor to print.
I agree with respect to lesser life span of Canon prints vs. Epson but in the real scheme of things so what... More than likely a potential buyer of prints won't care much 40 years from now and in the next decade print technology will greatly exceed what we are seeing now. It's easy to reprint an image on a new printer......
I toy with an Epson p9000 but have been burnt with Epson clogged heads in the past with printers I just threw away.
Decisions.......
Victor B
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More than likely a potential buyer of prints won't care much 40 years from now and in the next decade print technology will greatly exceed what we are seeing now. It's easy to reprint an image on a new printer......
Victor B
Whoever projects print longevity for 40 years has a completely different valuation of their prints than those who seek to have their prints last for centuries. It is not necessarily easy to just print out an image printed on one printer with a custom profile on specific paper and have it simply "reprint" on another brand of printer with different inks and a different profile. Refer to stevenfr's post where he states that hp themselves could not get his prints right after 4 tries even with reference prints to compare. While HP is in the printer manufacture business, it does not necessarily make employees master printers. We have discussed this issue in the past with stevenfr on this forum and stated that firstly, a quality custom profile would have to be made for the Z9+, then he would have to arduously soft proof his images using that profile before it could be correctly printed. This is the sad but true issue with all printers, going from one printer with one inkset to another with an altogether other inkset (and technology). Just having the printer and playing with it without initial testing and custom profiling won't get it. It is unfair to blame a printer for incorrect process in printing.
Best,
Mark
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Mark
I was told HP used their calibration process to create a custom profile. Granted it has some shortcomings as you have explained. I would think the Barcelona people should of come closer than they did. Shopping for a new printer it was important to me that I am able to replicate my prints as they are sold in numerous galleries. If I was still using the z3100 or z3200 I may have no concerns going to the z9.
As I mentioned in my post if I owned the z9 I might be able to match my prints from the Canon. My concern is the gamut going from the Canon to the HP. The HP has less ink carts, so maybe this is the reason for the gamut differences. I have owned the z3100 and really enjoyed the printer, and I have enjoyed using the Canon. There are features in both printers that I like.
Steven
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Mark
I was told HP used their calibration process to create a custom profile. Granted it has some shortcomings as you have explained. I would think the Barcelona people should of come closer than they did. Shopping for a new printer it was important to me that I am able to replicate my prints as they are sold in numerous galleries. If I was still using the z3100 or z3200 I may have no concerns going to the z9.
As I mentioned in my post if I owned the z9 I might be able to match my prints from the Canon. My concern is the gamut going from the Canon to the HP. The HP has less ink carts, so maybe this is the reason for the gamut differences. I have owned the z3100 and really enjoyed the printer, and I have enjoyed using the Canon. There are features in both printers that I like.
Steven
Hi Steven,
It is an interesting philosophy, the issue of serialization or indexicality, of prints that are all the same. I contend that in order to do that, really we should predetermine how many prints are in a numbered set, then print them and store them. This way there is no deviation from print to print. But this is impractical for most of us. It is for me, and I don’t know anyone who works this way other than with small closed editions. We all have our priorities, be it exact, faithful reproduction of color, or the confused issue of print/paper combination longevity. Then there is the question of ink fading, which begs the question at the outset. For these reasons, I believe we all pick our own poison when it comes to buying into a print system. Sometimes one’s priorities override and force our decisions. All the printers made these days are superb and each have their advantages and disadvantages. I believe the Z9+ is capable of reproducing your images exactly, but at what cost? If simply buying another Canon meets your expectations, and it will allow you to continue to match the prints from the past, it seems to be a foregone conclusion you are locked into a specific print system. But when the inks change, you ultimately face the same dilemma. Same with papers. These days we all face paper problems when our favorite papers are no longer made.
I hope your Canon printer meets your expectations well into the future. If you are wedded to your images from the past, I hope that specific printer and inkset and papers will be available for a long time.
Best,
Mark
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Hello all: I have been happily (almost) using my 24" Z9+ now for about 10 months. One major problem has been my inability to make custom profiles. At the last step I receive an error message without any further details. I was told by several HP experts, including one Tier 1 engineer from Ottawa, Canada that the HP firmware was in all likelihood, not compatible with my operating system (Mac OS Catalina). Obviously I have not upgraded to OS Big Sur because I don't want to continually be behind the firmware updates. Does anyone have any more information about this issue? Thanks.
Ken Susman
Mendocino, CA
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Firmware resides and run in the printer. It can not be incompatible with an OS of an external computer because it does not have any direct dependency on that OS.
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Firmware is the largest part of the printer operating software resident on the hard drive (proprietary formatting unfortunately). It does indeed have to interact with connected computers, and there you can have errors due to incompatibilities on either side of the print workflow.
Luckily the firmware is written for a robust installation that doesn't have to keep up with all the dot updates to operating systems and application level updates.
It is frustrating to say the least to find HP not maintaining software nor firmware for these printers.
They gave us innovation with features with the z9 and z6 yet abandoned the market which it is intended for.
I am selling mine or hoping to be able to. That would hurt to give it away or send it to the dump as it is brand new!
Reading here, it looks like there is zero market for HP for what we do.
I am trying to find a way of allowing communication between printer and MacOs Mohave. If I remember right there are SSL certificates to allow.... but I don't remember where why how
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Firmware is the largest part of the printer operating software resident on the hard drive (proprietary formatting unfortunately). It does indeed have to interact with connected computers, and there you can have errors due to incompatibilities on either side of the print workflow.
Luckily the firmware is written for a robust installation that doesn't have to keep up with all the dot updates to operating systems and application level updates.
It is frustrating to say the least to find HP not maintaining software nor firmware for these printers.
They gave us innovation with features with the z9 and z6 yet abandoned the market which it is intended for.
I am selling mine or hoping to be able to. That would hurt to give it away or send it to the dump as it is brand new!
Reading here, it looks like there is zero market for HP for what we do.
I am trying to find a way of allowing communication between printer and MacOs Mohave. If I remember right there are SSL certificates to allow.... but I don't remember where why how
PM sent Neil. - Mark
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There is a new firmware out for the Z9: https://support.hp.com/us-en/drivers/selfservice/swdetails/hp-designjet-z9-postscript-printer-series/21158678/swItemId/pl-259940-2
I´m curious whether this fixes some or most of the known issues so far?
cu
Sad to see Neil Snape to sell his Z9+DR on ebay...
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If you read the “fixes” doc on that firmware download, it mostly references the web server glitches. I don’t see anything listed that relates to what the real concerns were : 1. Inability to create custom profiling patches beyond the basic 400 or so target. 2. Inability of the color center to customize the amount of gloss enhancer needed to work adequately with fiber gloss media.
I don’t know what Hps current relationship is with X-Rite is but this could be one source of the dumbing down of the Zs color center capability. At any rate, it may be too late to fix the reputation of this company in the fine art photo market. If you can’t trust they will maintain the software in the future, it’s just too risky. But miracles have happened.
John
There is a new firmware out for the Z9: https://support.hp.com/us-en/drivers/selfservice/swdetails/hp-designjet-z9-postscript-printer-series/21158678/swItemId/pl-259940-2
I´m curious whether this fixes some or most of the known issues so far?
cu
Sad to see Neil Snape to sell his Z9+DR on ebay...
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An update on my continuing problems creating custom profiles using the z9+ and MacOS:
After reading some of Mark Lindquist's postings elsewhere in the printing forum I am now realizing that the incompatibility is probably between the HP Designjet Print Utility and the MacOS rather that between the printer's firmware and the MacOS. So I will try to download an older version of the print utility that Mark is offering to us on the forum and see if that solves the problem.
Furthermore, I have now been in communication with the Designjet High Value Team engineers in Ottawa, Canada for over a year regarding this issue. The latest engineer assigned to me has been extremely helpful and even went to the trouble of bringing a z9+ printer and mac computer into his personal workspace to attempt to duplicate my problem. He confirmed that, at least Mac 10.14.2 and the z9+ would not produce custom profiles and that he received the same error message that I continually get.
His last communication with me last week indicated that HP software engineers were currently in contact with Apple engineers in a attempt to resolve this problem.
That said, I am still extremely happy with the prints I am making using existing Hahnemuhle profiles.
Ken Susman
Mendocino, CA
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An amazing effort to get such attention from a manufacturer. Has anyone achieved this with Epson or Canon?
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Thanks.....it's been a long, frustrating process. The engineer even extended my warranty which was about to expire last month until the problem is hopefully resolved. Very very nice guy.
On another related subject....I made a print recently that was at the very end of a roll. When finishing, the paper tore a corner when pulling off of the core and then this tear damaged the star wheel bar. I didn't realize the problem immediately but kept ruining the leading edge of paper I tried to load. The little star wheels are held in place by a spring and one spring had been pulled loose and two of the star wheels had been lost. The spring was hanging down into the paper path and tearing the leading edge of paper that was loading.
Because I was still under warranty, HP sent me by overnight UPS, a brand new star wheel bar that was really simple to install. All is now well again.
I just wish HP would get the MacOS issue resolved.....LexJet from whom I purchased the printer gave up on me and now refuse to answer my calls regarding the MacOS issue. The technician there finally told me to buy an inexpensive PC laptop to use as my printing source.
KS