Luminous Landscape Forum
The Art of Photography => User Critiques => Topic started by: Todd Suttles on September 09, 2019, 04:34:25 pm
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Thank you to those who helped me with this submission. These are the seven I ended up. Prospectus: "Forgotten" -"The Forgotten, people, places and belongings that once mattered, that have been left behind. Things once being of importance to humans …personal items, homes, special places, letters, etc. Anything that has been left behind or replaced. Any object, being, place or property that once had the importance to another."
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Good stuff, Todd. Every single one.
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Cont'd...
-appreciate you, -t
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Good stuff, Todd. Every single one.
Agreed
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The last picture has a protruding element that is out of focus. I think it could be easily cropped out, without affecting the meaning of the rest.
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Excellent work Todd.
These seven function well as a harmonious group.
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The last picture has a protruding element that is out of focus. I think it could be easily cropped out, without affecting the meaning of the rest.
Thanks for this idea, and your other comment. Thanks, -t
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As always, thank you David and Eric for your help!
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I could agree with the other comments. But that wouldn't help you any further. It's in the critique section, so I guess that's what you are looking for.
I don't have comments on each single picture on it's own, but I do have a comment on the series. I miss consistency in the series. Why mixing B&W and Color? The series looks like a random pick instead of carefully selected images telling a story.
Just my two cents...
Ivo
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I'll add two more cents. I don't often agree with Ivo, but this time I do.
Todd, can you explain what you're trying to do with this series?
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Todd states it quite clearly...
"Forgotten" -"The Forgotten, people, places and belongings that once mattered, that have been left behind. Things once being of importance to humans …personal items, homes, special places, letters, etc. Anything that has been left behind or replaced. Any object, being, place or property that once had the importance to another."
I don't think a "story" is necessary - the invocation of a feeling or a contemplation is more than sufficient to allow the viewer to be pushed toward his/her own reaction.
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Todd states it quite clearly...
"Forgotten" -"The Forgotten, people, places and belongings that once mattered, that have been left behind. Things once being of importance to humans …personal items, homes, special places, letters, etc. Anything that has been left behind or replaced. Any object, being, place or property that once had the importance to another."
I don't think a "story" is necessary - the invocation of a feeling or a contemplation is more than sufficient to allow the viewer to be pushed toward his/her own reaction.
It’s not necessarily about the narrative story, it’s about the visual story, the unity in visual language. This series is French, German and Russian in one sentence.
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... This series is French, German and Russian in one sentence.
What's wrong with that menage a trois. Sounds like the EU in a nutshell ;)
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It’s not necessarily about the narrative story, it’s about the visual story, the unity in visual language. This series is French, German and Russian in one sentence.
Life and loss is like that though, isn't it? I'm not being dismissive, by the way (nor do I mean to be overly deep or insightful). I appreciate your question. I'm just not convinced that such a universal experience needs perfect visual harmony to convey the message. In fact, I could argue that the divergence of style makes a statement about the universality of loss. (OK - now I'm trying a little too hard ;) )
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What's wrong with that menage a trois. Sounds like the EU in a nutshell ;)
Did you ever experienced a ménage a trois with a German AND a French?
If so, you wouldn’t even ask.
8)
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I don't think a "story" is necessary - the invocation of a feeling or a contemplation is more than sufficient to allow the viewer to be pushed toward his/her own reaction.
I agree with that, James. But I also agree with Ivo that the sequence of pictures doesn't really hang together to produce a feeling or a contemplation. If you want to see an example of how to do what you're suggesting Todd's trying to do, sit down with The Americans and study what Robert Frank did in that book; not just to flip through the pictures, but to study them and to study the sequences he used to make his points. The main point was that America wasn't really the America being portrayed by Norman Rockwell or Alfred Eisenstadt. I think Todd's trying to get the viewer to feel the conflicts that are there in the new Old South. There's nothing wrong with his photography, but he's going to have to commit himself to the project to the point where it becomes painful. It ain't easy to do what he's trying to do.
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Did you ever experienced a ménage a trois with a German AND a French?
If so, you wouldn’t even ask.
8)
"Hey ladies... Wanna check out my Maginot Line??"
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Leave it to Ivo to toss in a reference to his past (or maybe his present). Don't tell his wife.
One problem with the series is lack of context. For instance, that's an interesting old door with the broken window panes. It's even pretty good wabi sabi. But it hangs in the air. How does it fit with, say, the bicycle, or even the gravestone. Where is it? It's an interesting artifact, but to do what Todd's trying to do it needs to be placed in context with surroundings that help convey the message. Is it out of place in its current location or does it fit a surrounding loss of dignity? Same thing with the trailers. They're interesting artifacts, but where are they?
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It was Slobodan’s remark. The ménage a trois thing. :-X
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Oh, my God, you guys. It fits the narrative "forgotten." Every. Single. One. No need for context. When you are forgotten, who cares about the context?
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Oh, my God, you guys. It fits the narrative "forgotten." Every. Single. One. No need for context. When you are forgotten, who cares about the context?
I guess you and I think the same, Slobodan.
But: When everybody... ;D
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There is an inherent assumption in Ivo's and Russ' points of view that assumes these images comprise a series. Maybe they do, maybe they don't. Perhaps Todd can tell us. I also didn't think he was trying to re-create The Americans, but simply entering a contest/show along a certain theme. My assumption. We don't know if they will be judged together or separately.
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Furthermore, these images (series or not) show real growth, to me.
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I'd agree with that, David.
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I hope it’s a series, I find the images not strong enough to stand on itself.
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There is an inherent assumption in Ivo's and Russ' points of view that assumes these images comprise a series. Maybe they do, maybe they don't. Perhaps Todd can tell us. I also didn't think he was trying to re-create The Americans, but simply entering a contest/show along a certain theme. My assumption. We don't know if they will be judged together or separately.
Possible, yes.
In that case I would narrow down and select that one really excellent picture.
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I certainly wouldn't call them a "series." I'd call them a "collection." There's nothing in them that makes them a series. Todd called the collection "The Forgotten People," but there are no people in the collection. There are cast-off artifacts with which people once were associated. Probably a better title would be "The Forgotten Artifacts."
Understand, I'm not criticizing the pictures themselves. Taken independently there are some good ones in the collection, but as a collection I can't see that they make a statement. They certainly don't say, "Forgotten People." They might say, "What People Have Forgotten."
The picture that says the most is the picture of the motel with the collection of half-shot VW beetles. There's context in that picture. It makes a pretty strong statement. Abandoned trailers standing alone don't say much except "I'm abandoned." The memorial bike is a bit too cute. The graveyard stuff simply says, "I'm a graveyard."
I think Todd's on to something, but I also think he needs to shoot a lot more pictures from which he can select a limited few to make a statement.
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... Todd called the collection "The Forgotten People," ....
No, the collection is simply called "Forgotten."
Note the comma after "The forgotten" (emphasis mine):
... Prospectus: "Forgotten" -"The Forgotten, people, places and belongings that once mattered, that have been left behind. Things once being of importance to humans …personal items, homes, special places, letters, etc. Anything that has been left behind or replaced. Any object, being, place or property that once had the importance to another."
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And that's important because. . .?
Slobodan, as I said, I think Todd's onto something. I'd like to see him pursue it. But he's going to have to shoot and shoot and shoot to get a collection he can winnow down to a final collection or series, whichever. If I were setting out to do what he's trying to do I wouldn't decide what it's going to be until I have an awful lot of pictures to choose from. I'd be doing the same thing Frank did when he set out across the country with a general idea of what he wanted to do. I'd just be out there shooting.
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No, the collection is simply called "Forgotten."
Note the comma after "The forgotten" (emphasis mine):
In Dutch we say: kommaneuken. Not sure if there is a English equivalent.
;D
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In Dutch we say: kommaneuken. Not sure if there is a English equivalent.
Splitting hairs.
But not in this case. Russ built his argument on the wrong premise.
...Todd called the collection "The Forgotten People," but there are no people in the collection... They certainly don't say, "Forgotten People."..
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Splitting hairs.
But not in this case. Russ built his argument on the wrong premise.
Agree, but that's not the first time. :-X
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Okay, you geniuses, tell me what you think the right premise might be. I see one picture in the series that stands out: the motel. That can stand on its own. The rest aren't strong enough to stand on their own.
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Okay, you geniuses, tell me what you think the right premise might be. I see one picture in the series that stands out: the motel. That can stand on its own. The rest aren't strong enough to stand on their own.
I agree about the motel.
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Every image captures the idea "forgotten." I really do not understand why is that so hard to grasp? We might argue if a series has to be all b&w, or all color, or a mix, but why are we arguing that this series captures the concept of "forgotten"?
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Every image captures the idea "forgotten." I really do not understand why is that so hard to grasp? We might argue if a series has to be all b&w, or all color, or a mix, but why are we arguing that this series captures the concept of "forgotten"?
I don’t know when it drifted in that direction. My intitial comment was about the coherence of the series, regardless the subject.
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Every image captures the idea "forgotten."
So what? "Forgotten" is a pretty standard capture. Check my http://www.russ-lewis.com/photo_gallery/ForTheWind/index.html. But I never intended for my "forgotten" captures to be a series, or even a collection that adheres to a theme. I could go out tomorrow and, without straining anything, come back with a half dozen pictures of abandoned trailers.
I went through basic pilot training in Moultrie, Georgia. I went through gunnery at Pinecastle, outside Orlando in 1952 to 1953. In those days nobody had heard of Disney, and Orlando was a relatively small, laid back southern town. I've lived off and on in Florida for thirty some years. I'm fairly familiar with the south. I"m too old now to try what Todd's trying. I'd love to see him focus and do something striking. Abandoned trailers only become interesting if you can relate them to a theme. Todd hasn't done that, but I think he might be able to do it.
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So what? "Forgotten" is a pretty standard capture...
Ok, folks, that’s it. Time to move on. From photography, I mean. Start something else. Gardening, knitting, anything but photography. Because every subject under the sun is by now pretty standard. Sunsets are pretty standard, piers protruding into milky ocean waters are pretty standard, old people sitting in cafes are pretty standard. Architectural abstracts are pretty standard too.
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Ok, folks, that’s it. Time to move on. From photography, I mean. Start something else. Gardening, knitting, anything but photography. Because every subject under the sun is by now pretty standard. Sunsets are pretty standard, piers protruding into milky ocean waters are pretty standard, old people sitting in cafes are pretty standard. Architectural abstracts are pretty standard too.
I tried naked woman, but talking about ‘pretty’ standard. 🤦🏻♂️
But there is a point in Russ’ arguments. I also think there is more to extract from this topic. And I read Russ’ comment as an encouraging to Todd to look further into the topic. Seems a fair comment.
I have the impression, Slobodan, you feel the need to defend your initial comment, more than to defend the work itself. Correct?
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... I have the impression, Slobodan, you feel the need to defend your initial comment, more than to defend the work itself. Correct?
No.
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No.
Ok...
Where’s my garden....
;)
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Wow! I just logged back in to find all of these thoughts. It is great to see how each of you think about these images and the submission. I have lots to think about and learn from here. Thank you!
These images were submitted to a call for images that fit into the theme. Aside from hope that they would evoke memories or feelings of "forgotten" they don't fit together. After reading all the comments and questions I now realize that I did not even consider them as working as a body but as individual images which may, or may not, fit into the juror's vision for the show; as well as images he thought would "play well with others" selected to be the whole..
For this little exhibition I don't think there is even an option of having more than one, or maybe two, images accepted. I gave up trying to guess what each juror is looking for. I just submit what think might fit into the juror's stated theme. And who knows what that really is? I always attend the juror's talk (accepted or not) when I can and am always surprised by how different and individual the decision making processes are for each. And even more interestingly, to me anyway, when I am accepted it is rarely the image(s) I thought stood the best chance going in.
Anyway, Thank You again for taking the time to give me your thoughts. I love learning to understand how each of you think about your work, and how I should (could) be thinking about mine. -t