Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Digital Image Processing => Topic started by: Slobodan Blagojevic on May 08, 2019, 12:53:28 pm
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Question: what is the optimal workflow for a raw image that it noisy, needs sharpening, and possibly enlargement?
Does it need all three modules and in which order?
P.S. As I was trying to type “workflow,” it turned into “workslow”... probably more appropriate anyway :)
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I thought you never bothered with noise... :P
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Question: what is the optimal workflow for a raw image that it noisy, needs sharpening, and possibly enlargement?
Does it need all three modules and in which order?
P.S. As I was trying to type “workflow,” it turned into “workslow”... probably more appropriate anyway :)
Hi,
IMHO.
- If the image is very noisy, it might help to first denoise it (or partially), unless the noise is functional in expressing an atmosphere of the image (e.g. a Grunge style).
- For upscaling, one would try to avoid artifacts that then get enlarged, so I'd first try the noise suppression and sharpening that Gigapixel AI offers. If that does not work as intended, first use Denoise AI.
- Sharpen AI can bring out unwanted features, e.g. stairstepping in edges and slanted lines. I suspect that as the Models improve, this will also improve. When Camera shake or unwanted subject motion is involved that needs to be removed, Sharpen AI does a tremendous job that the other programs simply cannot do, so then Sharpen AI is mandatory.
Since none of these AI programs are flawless yet, be prepared to work with layers. One can experiment with different settings for different Regions of Interest in the image, to bring out the best, and reveal the ROIs in a Layered /Masked workflow.
Or to summarize it in a different way:
Gigapixel AI has no competition. It's a must-have for any operation that involves upscaling. It can even be used to upscale an image, and then downscale it for increased resolution.
Denoise AI can do amazing things, sometimes the results are comparable to denoising with NeatImage / Noiseware / DxO Prime, but sometimes the noise just disappears totally.
Sharpen AI produces excellent sharpening in many situations, especially for Capture sharpening (although I'd often still use that with a form of luminosity blending in that case), and it also produces excellent sharpening for web-publishing.
Cheers,
Bart
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All explained here:
http://creativepro.com/out-of-gamut-thoughts-a-sharpening-workflow/
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All explained here:
http://creativepro.com/out-of-gamut-thoughts-a-sharpening-workflow/
Yes, an article from 16 years ago, just in time to discuss the current state of the AI software and how they interact with each other.
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Thanks, Bart.
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Yes, an article from 16 years ago, just in time to discuss the current state of the AI software and how they interact with each other.
What took you so long to learn the basics?
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Bart,
I could not agree with you more. I am astonished how Topaz Sharpen AI improves my Nikon D850 images in many cases, including ones using a tripod and good lenses and in the lenses strong areas.
Giga, the few times I have used it, just works and works easily and has the nice byproduct that the other controls sometimes help. With the D850, upsizing to downsize for resolution has not been often needed.
I have had less luck with Denoise, in terms of improvement amount and frequency of improvement. But, then, like with upsizing, noise has not been my recent problem with the D850.
I am expecting that Topaz will ride to the rescue with my inventory of ~30000 images from cruising in the Med for 7 years after I retired. Within this batch, I have many bad photos from bad cameras from a 2007 "Eastern Med Rally", and from an earlier a 2004 Atlantic Crossing in my little Nordhavn motorboat. In both cases I subsequently gathered up everyone's digital images: about 30 different crews and some 60 digital cameras. Digital camera were not so good then. Not many pixels and lots of noise but images of a lifetime! I have been waiting in hopes that I might someday make something of these. Topaz's tools, especially denoise, giga, and sharpening's three modes give hope for the particular problems these 30,000 images have in terms of pixel count, noise, and resolution.
I will also be hoping that Topaz jpegtoRaw will show me something too, but for tone and color I am a disciple of Dan Margulis' thinking and techniques. Slower than sliding LR sliders, and not for all images, but when it is needed, there is nothing like his stuff.
In short, in my experience and like yours I think, people who are dragging their feet on these recent Topaz products are crazy.
Bill
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I have several 16MP images printing well up to 60" wide and being hung on walls. Wouldn't have been possible without the new AI products, despite their sometimes aggravating bugs.
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Topaz ran a webinar a few weeks ago on workflow with the new plugins
I didn’t see it.
Would like to hear from anyone who did.
They usually post previous webinars on their site but I couldn’t find this one yet
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I might add regarding workflow that I've found I need to greatly reduce or turn off the sharpening that is done in opening raw files in Photoshop, at least with some cameras. If this initial sharpening is too strong AI Sharpen or Gigapixel might sharpen the halos, making them far too noticeable. This is particularly the case with the aps-c small (near pocket) Fuji XF10 camera I recently purchased. The camera's default setting regarding sharpening is simply not appropriate when AIG is being used.
Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
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+1. I’ve noticed the same. Topaz is also adding kind of ghost images several multiple pixels away from the edges. Think of adding a (reduced version of a) second lamp pole to the image. I’ve turned down any sharpening in C1 to 0.
Regards,
Jaap.
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Topaz has updated its four AI software packages. So far I haven’t been able to detect any improvements apart from the fact the Denoise now has an autodetection feature. for the rest it looks like a cosmetic improvement on the menu structure.
With Sharpen I get the least artefacts and with Stabilize the most, ghost images around small items like antenna’s on a roof.
Numbers and letters in the image still seem to be problematic or unusable with JPEG to RAW AI (more JPG to TIF AI imho).
Bye the way, it’s good to check the preferences in case you’re not getting that enthusiastic in by default participating in anonymous data collection.
Regards,
Jaap.
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A month or two ago I commented on one of these Topaz AI threads about how Sharpen AI had totally messed up the ability to use other Topaz applications on Smart Object layers in PS, and re-edit them. It has also been discussed on several threads in the Topaz forums (for example, here (https://community.topazlabs.com/t/sharpenai-replaces-topaz-studio-in-photoshop/10173/14)). I'm happy to report that after a long frustrating wait, the problem finally seems to be fixed and everything is working as it should. I can for instance now apply, on a Smart Object, Denoise AI, followed by Sharpen AI, followed by Precision Detail (or other adjustment) within Topaz Studio; and each resulting smart filter is labeled properly. Further, by double-clicking any of those smart filters, each one opens to the appropriate application that created it, ready for further editing. I'm now much happier using the Topaz apps in my work flow.