Luminous Landscape Forum
Site & Board Matters => About This Site => Topic started by: Dave (Isle of Skye) on January 16, 2019, 06:37:37 am
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Josh I think it is time for you to tell us directly all about YOU and your goals for the future of the site!
So why not do a piece to camera and explain to us who you are, what your ideas are, what kit you are using and a general get to know your audience type of thing.
Your father used to do a thing he liked to call "The Toy Shop", where he would look at his most recent equipment and perhaps show us a few shots he had taken with it.
So come on Josh, reveal to us all who you really are and the direction you and your new team intend to lead us..
all the best
Dave
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Time for a Monty Python clip (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBbuUWw30N8)?
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Time for a Monty Python clip (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBbuUWw30N8)?
+1.
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Time for a Monty Python clip (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBbuUWw30N8)?
And this Monty Python clip (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9DCAFUerzs) is representative of what will happen if he doesn't come out and talk to us :D
Dave
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Well, what do you want the cat* to tell, you that he hasn't already indicated to be his intention?
Haven't we had enough of all the gear stuff already? It's what some have been knocking Kevin for indulging himself with, and even then, not without claims of partisan biases etc. etc, ad nauseam. Everybody already knows the names of the couple of sites that do all the number crunching beloved of gear freaks; does homely LuLa need to dip her toes into that particular pool too?
Personally I have no love at all for the type of synch.-flashed contemporary street stuff we have been seeing, but that's just my personal reaction to what looks like (to me) unimaginative and poor lighting techniques. That said, there's no reason at all why it shouldn't get an airing here as it does in magazines; times change as do tastes (chickens, eggs), conditioned as they are by these new photographers' beliefs and attitudes. I see no reason on Earth for anyone willingly to go out there and photograph ugly people in even more ugly places; for that, all I need's a mirror, even if the location ain't ugly and is, in fact, remarkably beautiful. But I accept that, for many, it's a lure they can't resist. For me, the art of photography is pretty synonymous with the quest for beauty, but that's just my take.
Landscape gets a great airing here, especially from a couple of talented regular members; why expect - or hope- for Michael's son to share his Dad's photographic characteristics? Kevin didn't, but nobody semed to object too much. Michael's landscape and street were both incredibly above the average in quality, and I'd say his sense of street way beyond anything that we, as members of LuLa, have ever posted. He is not going to be replaced; get over it.
As has been pointed out time and again, the best thing about LuLa for active snappers is that it allows us to post both comment and images; for those seeking practical advice, it has great, unpaid people always willing to answer questions and help. I got loads of assistance when I needed it most. We already have a wonderful thing here; let's contribute ourselves, each to the best of our abilities. If your want to say something, this isn't a classoom where your grammer is going to be - or should be - criticised: it's about the sentiment of what you want to express, not the bright semantic path to that.
Contribute, and don't just wait for Mama's tit.
Rob
*Stick with me if you wanna dig some hip, second-hand, 40s/50s jive, daddio. No contemporary corruptions in this juke joint; no sir!
;-)
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Contribute, and don't just wait for Mama's tit.
Rob
Best suggestion so far.
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Rob:
Sure, Lula is a great resource for a lot of us. And you describe that adequately. But...
1. Contributing/paying members have a right to be told whether the business model/content of Lula will change, and if yes, in what direction (I am not in this category).
2. The reputation of Lula was built around a lot more than what you describe, a lot more than a simple place to post pics and get valuable critics and insight thereof.
3. During the transition to digital, Lula was a pioneer in their analysis, testing, reviewing, and technical input. This was also the case with the transition towards imaging, that is, both stills and video have become important for manufacturers; photographers had to become imagers, proficient in all the imaging chain and workflows.
4. I feel that the relevance of Lula in the previous point has been diminishing in the last few years.
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Best suggestion so far.
I am a pragmatic fellow, so I like facts. Right now, if one goes to the Home page of Lula, the only practical information is in the "About" page. Inside, a big part of the content is about "legacy"; not much about the future. In fact, about the future, this is all I could gather:
"We will be launching a fresh series of workshops over the coming months and do hope that we will be able to meet you on one of these journeys.
The days ahead are going to be as interesting, fun and informative as those in the past."
Venturing further, into the Workshops page, it says that Lula have partnered with Rockhoppers Workshops, from Kevin.
And that is about it. So indeed, contribute is a good advice, but without the framing from the CEO, a bit useless at present date.
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I am a pragmatic fellow, so I like facts. Right now, if one goes to the Home page of Lula, the only practical information is in the "About" page. Inside, a big part of the content is about "legacy"; not much about the future. In fact, about the future, this is all I could gather:
"We will be launching a fresh series of workshops over the coming months and do hope that we will be able to meet you on one of these journeys.
The days ahead are going to be as interesting, fun and informative as those in the past."
Venturing further, into the Workshops page, it says that Lula have partnered with Rockhoppers Workshops, from Kevin.
And that is about it. So indeed, contribute is a good advice, but without the framing from the CEO, a bit useless at present date.
Not necessarily. Supervision and guidance is indeed needed, but with the expertise of many LuLa members and their articles/essays into new areas and also their expert posts, we can prime the pump, shape the direction and content, and get going again.
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Well, what do you want the cat* to tell, you that he hasn't already indicated to be his intention?
Contribute, and don't just wait for Mama's tit.
Rob
;-)
Part one above - I just thought it might be nice to meet the guy (virtually of course) and see what he has to say for himself - so surely you can't say that is such a bad thing for me to have suggested to Josh is it?
Part two above - I think you will find Rob that I do just that whenever I can - go and look in the landscape section for examples, such as this for instance (https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=128582.0).
You know Rob, if it wasn't for the wink at the end of your reply, I would say after initially reading it, that you are obviously having a really good old man grump about something and how the world is obviously getting you down in some way - so if this is the case, then cheer up man, as we only get one go at this thing called life, so try to enjoy yourself you old grump!
NOTE the smiley, winky face here Rob... ;)
Dave
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Part one above - I just thought it might be nice to meet the guy (virtually of course) and see what he has to say for himself - so surely you can't say that is such a bad thing for me to have suggested to Josh is it?
Part two above - I think you will find Rob that I do just that whenever I can - go and look in the landscape section for examples, such as this for instance (https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=128582.0).
You know Rob, if it wasn't for the wink at the end of your reply, I would say after initially reading it, that you are obviously having a really good old man grump about something and how the world is obviously getting you down in some way - so if this is the case, then cheer up man, as we only get one go at this thing called life, so try to enjoy yourself you old grump!
NOTE the smiley, winky face here Rob... ;)
Dave
But you are just one guy; we have many people visiting without adding their bit. I also throw in a snap now and then, but it's not enough: we need more stuff from the readership that will convert it from a passive presence to an active one.
Smiley notwithstanding, that post has nothing to do with feeling or being of a grumpy disposition, far from it. The disposition is what it has been shaped into becoming by life experiences, which mainly convinced me that the smile of the positive salesman as he sits in his car in the client's car park, slitting his wrists, does nothing for his reality. Ms May also notwithstanding.
:-)
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So come on Josh, reveal to us all who you really are
What on earth is that supposed to mean?
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Rob:
Sure, Lula is a great resource for a lot of us. And you describe that adequately. But...
1. Contributing/paying members have a right to be told whether the business model/content of Lula will change, and if yes, in what direction (I am not in this category).
2. The reputation of Lula was built around a lot more than what you describe, a lot more than a simple place to post pics and get valuable critics and insight thereof.
3. During the transition to digital, Lula was a pioneer in their analysis, testing, reviewing, and technical input. This was also the case with the transition towards imaging, that is, both stills and video have become important for manufacturers; photographers had to become imagers, proficient in all the imaging chain and workflows.
4. I feel that the relevance of Lula in the previous point has been diminishing in the last few years.
2. It appears the managerial changes happened very quickly; having no insider info. it is impossible to know whether there was time for a pre-planned schedule of alternatives and additional features to LuLa and so we all have to do the sensible - unavoidable - thing and wait and see. I have already written that it has been, and still is a magnificent technical resource.
3. But that's history: the thing's done, and film a distant memory for most peope or an absolute unknown. Nobody currently enjoys the opportunity for novel input that the birth of digital once presented writers in the photo world; as I indicated, it ain't news no more. Not even yesterday's news.
Regarding motion, Cooter and others provide lots of detailed, technical information about camera choices, editing, storage and all the rest of that different world, information that comes from the mouths of actual photographers doing it for big clients, which it is unlikely to be the case with stuff that people running photography websites are likely to be able to do to the same degree.
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What on earth is that supposed to mean?
All I am saying is that so far, is that all I really know about Josh, is that he is the son of Michael... and so I thought it might be a good idea to listen to him discussing his photographic view of the world with us, which is something his father did repeatedly and which (I believe) we all thought was rather valuable and which greatly added to the value of this site.
I find it difficult to understand how what I thought was just a simple idea and very much inline with how this site has worked since its inception, is receiving so much apparent hostility.
I deeply respected Michael and his ideas and his photographic view of the world, and I would also like to give Josh the same respect albeit he has such a hard act to follow - so is that such an unreasonable request/idea to put forward?
I didn't think so at the time I put this suggestion forward, but perhaps I was entirely wrong.
Dave
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But you are just one guy; we have many people visiting without adding their bit. I also throw in a snap now and then, but it's not enough: we need more stuff from the readership that will convert it from a passive presence to an active one.
Smiley notwithstanding, that post has nothing to do with feeling or being of a grumpy disposition, far from it. The disposition is what it has been shaped into becoming by life experiences, which mainly convinced me that the smile of the positive salesman as he sits in his car in the client's car park, slitting his wrists, does nothing for his reality. Ms May also notwithstanding.
:-)
I totally get that Rob and yes I also have many days when I have to wonder what the hell is happening to the world and my body as it changes through the ravages of time. Yet I have also found that the best cure I have for this deep feeling of gloom and general everyday ennui, is to grab my camera and go out and shoot the hell out of something, even when I know all I will end up doing is to format my memory card, without even looking at its contents as soon as I get home.
Talking of the current political tribulations in the UK, I find it difficult to comprehend how those who are supposed to be representing us, are so unable to respect the democratic will of the majority of the people. They say they will when we elect them, then as soon as the electorate make a democratic decision the politicians don't like, then democracy goes straight out of the window it seems - so tomorrow I am going to go out and photograph the hell out of something...
Dave ;)
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Hi,
If you can imagine my upbringing, one could accurately picture a life growing up as a photographer. It has, and continues to be, my main modality of expression. I am curious and, yes, passionate about pictures - who takes them, how they were taken, what they mean - and I continue my father’s work to facilitate this site to ensure that there is a place where photographers find community; where people can find the photographer in them.
Our approach is to serve this community, opening the doors to new contributors, new points of view, new tools on the site to better experience the content. Also, it is for us to invite senior experts to share their knowledge, passing along their wisdom to new cohorts, hungry to learn how to capture their vision.
Josh 8)
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Talking of the current political tribulations in the UK, I find it difficult to comprehend how those who are supposed to be representing us, are so unable to respect the democratic will of the majority of the people. T
Google "representative democracy".
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On my iPad I have two icons, one for the Lula main site, and one for the forum. They seem rather separate in that only one part of the forum, Site and Board matters, relates to the main site. Even then it is the subset, About this Site, that really refers to topics on the main site. The forum is a largely self-managing area, with minimum supervision, run by members for members and non-paying viewers. Josh’s arrival seems to be mostly about the main site.
To me the title, Luminous Landscape, indicates that it concerns itself with all that we see (the Landscape). It is concerned with how we record and communicate that landscape, so also covers the tools and media for doing that. That means that is about images, although text may be added to explain, contextualise, comment, etc. Over the years that I have been looking at Lula, it has changed as the environment has changed. When I started Michael seemed to focus on stills and printing the images. I remember his articles on different papers, now mostly covered by Mark Segal. He did use video, and there were his video journals, but both of those were only parts of wider coverage including cameras, lenses and software. As others have commented the recording and communication aspects have changed dramatically; cameras are often hybrid still and video, and the latter seems as important as the former. This reflects the increase in the use of electronic communication rather than printed.
It is into this changed world that Josh has suddenly appeared. He has given his intentions and aspirations and stated the obvious that he is his father’s son, but has not hit the ground running in regard of the main site. The forum keeps going, though some contributors have indicated that they will subscribe no longer. What is keeping ‘the shock of the new’ going is that unlike his father and Kevin, I have not seen any video of him explaining his philosophy and his photographic credentials and experience for occupying the position he has in Lula. He has yet to show he is part of the Lula community as his father, Kevin and Chris were. To calm the waters I think he needs a more visible presence, so I agree with Dave’s original post.
Best wishes,
Jonathan
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On my iPad I have two icons, one for the Lula main site, and one for the forum. They seem rather separate in that only one part of the forum, Site and Board matters, relates to the main site. Even then it is the subset, About this Site, that really refers to topics on the main site. The forum is a largely self-managing area, with minimum supervision, run by members for members and non-paying viewers. Josh’s arrival seems to be mostly about the main site.
To me the title, Luminous Landscape, indicates that it concerns itself with all that we see (the Landscape). It is concerned with how we record and communicate that landscape, so also covers the tools and media for doing that. That means that is about images, although text may be added to explain, contextualise, comment, etc. Over the years that I have been looking at Lula, it has changed as the environment has changed. When I started Michael seemed to focus on stills and printing the images. I remember his articles on different papers, now mostly covered by Mark Segal. He did use video, and there were his video journals, but both of those were only parts of wider coverage including cameras, lenses and software. As others have commented the recording and communication aspects have changed dramatically; cameras are often hybrid still and video, and the latter seems as important as the former. This reflects the increase in the use of electronic communication rather than printed.
It is into this changed world that Josh has suddenly appeared. He has given his intentions and aspirations and stated the obvious that he is his father’s son, but has not hit the ground running in regard of the main site. The forum keeps going, though some contributors have indicated that they will subscribe no longer. What is keeping ‘the shock of the new’ going is that unlike his father and Kevin, I have not seen any video of him explaining his philosophy and his photographic credentials and experience for occupying the position he has in Lula. He has yet to show he is part of the Lula community as his father, Kevin and Chris were. To calm the waters I think he needs a more visible presence, so I agree with Dave’s original post.
Best wishes,
Jonathan
Jonathan, perhaps he has learned a valuable modern lesson, even here within the tender embrace of LuLa video: not all those who appear on our screens are suited to that gig.
The wrong mug, voice or body language can ruin everything, and often does. Taken to the limit, do you think HC-B was good on screen? He did not come over as a guy you'd want to spend a few hours chatting with, and he one with a huge reputation and with much history about which one could chat. They didn't talk about people having good faces for radio for nothing.
I have no idea what Josh and friends look like, and they may all be Hollywood stars in all departments. I just wouldn't want anyone to feel rushed into going visible unless they want to do so and have reason to think it a good idea.
Why do I get the sense that some people want this site to be a video slot instead? I, for one, wouldn't bother tuning in: I prefer being able to search for exactly the topics that interest me, easily avoiding those that do not. As with radio, the voices in my head that give life to the words I read are my voices and created to make my life here comfortable.
Rob
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As I wrote before, this is what is showing in the "About" page:
""We will be launching a fresh series of workshops over the coming months and do hope that we will be able to meet you on one of these journeys.
The days ahead are going to be as interesting, fun and informative as those in the past."
All the rest of the introduction is "legacy". I think the above is quite scarce in terms of informing both old and new comers about the future of the site.
And as someone has mentioned already, the Forum is a different entity from the Main Site itself. It is the latter that is a bit stagnant and apparently lacking information about where it is going.
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I think that in the main some people are over-reacting and making rash judgements. All the usual hallmarks of how people react to change, that is to say, not well.
The new management has been in charge for less than a month. They have declared in general terms what they want to do and several articles have appeared in that time. There are too few of them to make any sort of judgement on the future, imo, although that hasn't stopped people from doing so. The articles have not been universally hated nor loved, which is probably standard operating procedure for any publisher.
If you went back and took a snapshot (no pun intended) of a random set of 4 or 5 main site articles from previous years, would they stand up to critical analysis? Did they appeal to a large enough group of people? I have no way of knowing. For reasons that we don't know, and that are really none of our business, there is a new management in place and things will change in the future, but they were always going to anyway.
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I think that in the main some people are over-reacting and making rash judgements. All the usual hallmarks of how people react to change, that is to say, not well.
The new management has been in charge for less than a month. They have declared in general terms what they want to do and several articles have appeared in that time. There are too few of them to make any sort of judgement on the future, imo, although that hasn't stopped people from doing so. The articles have not been universally hated nor loved, which is probably standard operating procedure for any publisher.
If you went back and took a snapshot (no pun intended) of a random set of 4 or 5 main site articles from previous years, would they stand up to critical analysis? Did they appeal to a large enough group of people? I have no way of knowing. For reasons that we don't know, and that are really none of our business, there is a new management in place and things will change in the future, but they were always going to anyway.
Amen to all that.
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As I wrote before, this is what is showing in the "About" page:
""We will be launching a fresh series of workshops over the coming months and do hope that we will be able to meet you on one of these journeys.
The days ahead are going to be as interesting, fun and informative as those in the past."
All the rest of the introduction is "legacy". I think the above is quite scarce in terms of informing both old and new comers about the future of the site.
And as someone has mentioned already, the Forum is a different entity from the Main Site itself. It is the latter that is a bit stagnant and apparently lacking information about where it is going.
Agree. This is old information and we are in the process of updating it along with other copy throughout the site.
Aswell, I will indeed be camera facing in time, along with many others. Some pieces have been shot and produced already. I’m happy and comfortable to be on camera but want mostly to showcase others.
Already shot material is in cue with other content. Some of this includes on location “how too’s” and trips. A list of upcoming content and opportunities will be presented soon.
We are working around the clock, not just on general mission plans, but on the renewal both front and back end of the site to make it an easier home to navigate. The forum will not be tampered with :)
Thanks.
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Agree. This is old information and we are in the process of updating it along with other copy throughout the site.
Aswell, I will indeed be camera facing in time, along with many others. Some pieces have been shot and produced already. I’m happy and comfortable to be on camera but want mostly to showcase others.
Already shot material is in cue with other content. Some of this includes on location “how too’s” and trips. A list of upcoming content and opportunities will be presented soon.
We are working around the clock, not just on general mission plans, but on the renewal both front and back end of the site to make it an easier home to navigate. The forum will not be tampered with :)
Thanks.
Josh,
Thanks for the update and clarification.
All the best.
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Thanks Josh. As I wrote the changeover has resulted somewhat in 'the shock of the new'. I look forward to seeing the results of your efforts and hope things settle down.
Best wishes,
Jonathan
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Thanks Josh. As I wrote the changeover has resulted somewhat in 'the shock of the new'. I look forward to seeing the results of your efforts and hope things settle down.
Best wishes,
Jonathan
Very much appreciated
Josh
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I find it interesting to see so many differing views on the direction of the former vs. current direction of LuLa. I first discovered the website around 2007 and it was a fantastic source of information regarding digital technology. I was still a film shooter and was not familiar with all the new terminology and concepts of digital photography. The Essays and Understanding series articles were some of the best info available at the time, and written in such a way as to simultaniously speak to varying levels of knowledge and experience. As all of us have advanced and grown our knowledge over the years, let's not lose site of the fact that many newcomers could still benifit from covering the basics, and sometimes this has to include a certain amount of coverage on gear. I hope that part of the new direction for the site will include a refreshening of the relevant material in an easily searchable format. Kevin was somewhat on this path with the Rediscovering series. Regarding the articles over the past couple years vs recent articles under new management, I don't see much to fuss about either way. Yeah some of the topics from before (medium format and multi thousand dollar photo excursions) didn't really apply to me, but it's not like anyone "made" me read those if I didn't want too. It is called Luminous-LANDSCAPE after all, so the articles were relevant. Likewise, a couple of the new articles are a bit too MFA for me, but I'm not quite calling for mutiny either. It does everyone good to be exposed to new material on occasion. I don't have any regrets of my $12 a year for the last few years, and I don't expect to cancel any time soon just because of a pending change in direction. Let's see where it goes. I do really appreciate some of the articles from recurring contributors; Alain Briot, Sharon Tenenbaum, the late Miles Hecker, and others. LuLa has been good at attracting top people in their respective field for articles, and that has enriched the overall quality of the site compared to many others. Regarding the forum, same as with the contributing authors, a fantastic wealth of knowledge and insight. I would hope that not too many stomp off in disgust just because of the recent changes. Josh, I wish you well in moving LuLa forward, and look forward to seeing where you take it. Keep your finger on the pulse of the forums and you will surely know how everyone feels about the direction of the site, just don't let that be your only guide.
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I find it interesting to see so many differing views on the direction of the former vs. current direction of LuLa. I first discovered the website around 2007 and it was a fantastic source of information regarding digital technology. I was still a film shooter and was not familiar with all the new terminology and concepts of digital photography. The Essays and Understanding series articles were some of the best info available at the time, and written in such a way as to simultaniously speak to varying levels of knowledge and experience. As all of us have advanced and grown our knowledge over the years, let's not lose site of the fact that many newcomers could still benifit from covering the basics, and sometimes this has to include a certain amount of coverage on gear. I hope that part of the new direction for the site will include a refreshening of the relevant material in an easily searchable format. Kevin was somewhat on this path with the Rediscovering series. Regarding the articles over the past couple years vs recent articles under new management, I don't see much to fuss about either way. Yeah some of the topics from before (medium format and multi thousand dollar photo excursions) didn't really apply to me, but it's not like anyone "made" me read those if I didn't want too. It is called Luminous-LANDSCAPE after all, so the articles were relevant. Likewise, a couple of the new articles are a bit too MFA for me, but I'm not quite calling for mutiny either. It does everyone good to be exposed to new material on occasion. I don't have any regrets of my $12 a year for the last few years, and I don't expect to cancel any time soon just because of a pending change in direction. Let's see where it goes. I do really appreciate some of the articles from recurring contributors; Alain Briot, Sharon Tenenbaum, the late Miles Hecker, and others. LuLa has been good at attracting top people in their respective field for articles, and that has enriched the overall quality of the site compared to many others. Regarding the forum, same as with the contributing authors, a fantastic wealth of knowledge and insight. I would hope that not too many stomp off in disgust just because of the recent changes. Josh, I wish you well in moving LuLa forward, and look forward to seeing where you take it. Keep your finger on the pulse of the forums and you will surely know how everyone feels about the direction of the site, just don't let that be your only guide.
Trouble with the pulse, however, is that it only bounces along with the beats from a very few members.
I suppose there are other ways of calculating popular appeal, but then is popular appeal worth bothering with, from the readership interest angle? If it is, then I guess pandering to it too much will reduce the input fom the more voluble experienced folks here, who might just lose interest in the mundane and wander off to search the galaxy for alternatives. Over the years, we have already lost some damned good pros whose work was of a much broader interest and partly applicable, if only by example, to the guys who shoot buildings for fun.
In fact, I believe that the original appeal of LuLa, digital lessons aside, was exactly because of Michael's idiosyncratic manner. Of course, that he was an extremely accomplished photographer did no harm, but I didn't think of him as giving much of a damn about the mundane aspects of photography or its matching practitioners, and thank the stars for that! To maintain interest, I believe you have to aim high.
Rob
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In fact, I believe that the original appeal of LuLa, digital lessons aside, was exactly because of Michael's idiosyncratic manner. Of course, that he was an extremely accomplished photographer did no harm, but I didn't think of him as giving much of a damn about the mundane aspects of photography or its matching practitioners, and thank the stars for that! To maintain interest, I believe you have to aim high.
Rob
I think if you go back and look at the articles published by Michael you will see that this is an incorrect assessment. He did review lots of equipment and offered technical insights that could be defined as mundane. Prior to the change in ownership, Kevin was posting several of Michaels articles from times gone by. I directly recall his review of the Canon S90 (https://luminous-landscape.com/canon-powershot-s90/) which was the first pocket camera capable of capturing RAW files. It was this review that prompted me to purchase one and I've used it on and off over the past 9 years. There were many others and of course his photo galleries.
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My two pennyworth is that Josh is doing things exactly right and letting the content do the talking - Lula will survive, or not, on the nature and quality of its content. It should not be a "personality site".