Luminous Landscape Forum

Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Colour Management => Topic started by: Frans Waterlander on August 02, 2018, 06:00:05 pm

Title: NEC SpectraViewII update causes color shift?
Post by: Frans Waterlander on August 02, 2018, 06:00:05 pm
After downloading the latest version of NEC SpectraViewII a couple of days ago, I noticed a color mismatch between my prints and monitor. Nothing else (lighting, PS version, monitor, sensor, computer, operating system, printer, drivers, paper, ink, etc.) has changed. After a lot of calibrating and verifying I increased the calibration color temp from 5200K to 5500K, to restore a near-perfect monitor-to-print match.

So, SpectraView software seems to be inconsistent between versions.

Anyone else run into this problem or know what else may have caused this shift?

Title: Re: NEC SpectraViewII update causes color shift?
Post by: digitaldog on August 02, 2018, 06:07:44 pm
Nope, runs just fine on this end.
You 'fixed' the issue by your own admission: restore a near prefect match. Time to move on IF possible  :o 
Quote
So, SpectraView software seems to be inconsistent between versions.
An assumption and since you didn't revert the old version, could be your Colorimeter is iffy, more user error, eyesight issues, a possible software conspiracy etc.
You do realize that some Colorimeters have filters that can fade over time....
Title: Re: NEC SpectraViewII update causes color shift?
Post by: Frans Waterlander on August 02, 2018, 06:21:22 pm
I did reinstall the older version and the mismatch disappeared.
Title: Re: NEC SpectraViewII update causes color shift?
Post by: digitaldog on August 02, 2018, 06:31:23 pm
I did reinstall the older version and the mismatch disappeared.
That was fast  ::)
Great! Now you have two possible fixes for your specific “issue” and we can all move on!
Title: Re: NEC SpectraViewII update causes color shift?
Post by: digitaldog on August 02, 2018, 06:39:22 pm
Oh and you’re welcome for the fix suggestion(s)!  ::)
Title: Re: NEC SpectraViewII update causes color shift?
Post by: Frans Waterlander on August 02, 2018, 06:41:31 pm
Oh and you’re welcome for the fix suggestion(s)!  ::)

I tried reinstalling the older version before I asked for constructive inputs, so no, you didn't help one bit.
Title: Re: NEC SpectraViewII update causes color shift?
Post by: digitaldog on August 02, 2018, 06:42:50 pm
I tried reinstalling the older version before I asked for constructive inputs, so no, you didn't help one bit.
Then why did you post? Anyway I answered your question. There’s no issue on this end. And you got the system fixed. So we’re done goodbye.
Title: Re: NEC SpectraViewII update causes color shift?
Post by: Frans Waterlander on August 02, 2018, 06:49:30 pm
Then why did you post? Anyway I answered your question. There’s no issue on this end. And you got the system fixed. So we’re done goodbye.

Oh, let me see, maybe I want to understand why? I don't call a Band-Aid a fix without knowing what is going on.

So, let me repeat the question: do others (other than you, Andrew) have had this experience and/or know what's causing this? Maybe there is something else going on that, when not addressed, could cause issues in the future.
Title: Re: NEC SpectraViewII update causes color shift?
Post by: digitaldog on August 02, 2018, 06:56:54 pm
Oh, let me see, maybe I want to understand why? I don't call a Band-Aid a fix without knowing what is going on.

So, let me repeat the question: do others (other than you, Andrew) have had this experience and/or know what's causing this?
Probably a clogged nozzle. :P
Oh and I answered your question. No collusion  :D
In the future, when you ask a question tell us the answer you wanna hear it it’ll save us all a lot of time.  :'(
Title: Re: NEC SpectraViewII update causes color shift?
Post by: Frans Waterlander on August 02, 2018, 07:04:33 pm
Probably a clogged nozzle. :P
Oh and I answered your question.
In the future, when you ask a question tell us the answer you wanna hear it it’ll save us all a lot of time.  :'(

Logic has it that this color shift has nothing to do with the printer, as the shift shows up with different versions of SpectraView and the same print. Sorry to say, but you didn't answer the question as to what is causing this; you only offered band-aids that I figured out before posting. But band-aids are not my kind of thing.
You can save yourself and us a lot of time by either helping in a constructive way or not responding at all.
Title: Re: NEC SpectraViewII update causes color shift?
Post by: digitaldog on August 02, 2018, 07:19:13 pm
Logic has it that this color shift has nothing to do with the printer, as the shift shows up with different versions of SpectraView and the same print.
It was a joke, based on the posts from someone here who has visual acuity issues:
http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=124550.msg1042834#msg1042834
And who's posted about getting headache's from looking at his display.
Do tell us what answer you wish, maybe someone will regurgitate it for you. In the meantime, problem solved. Is more attention needed?  ???
Title: Re: NEC SpectraViewII update causes color shift?
Post by: digitaldog on August 02, 2018, 07:45:02 pm
Here's an interesting factoid for lurkers. The SpectraView software provides a message if there's an update each time you launch it by default. I have the latest version as shown below. It was installed on my system April 5, 2018. Which indicates that someone posting here isn't calibrating his display very often :eek:, and not updating his software very often :eek: and just to be absolutely sure, I launched the software today (I recalibrate every 30 days), no mention of an update. And as I answered in my first post, after recalibrating, MY unit today is just as it should be! No issues.
Time to re watch a favorite film: Full Metal Jacket (http://digitaldog.net/files/FullMetalJacket.jpg).  ;D

Title: Re: NEC SpectraViewII update causes color shift?
Post by: Frans Waterlander on August 02, 2018, 08:08:49 pm
Here's an interesting factoid for lurkers. The SpectraView software provides a message if there's an update each time you launch it by default. I have the latest version as shown below. It was installed on my system April 5, 2018. Which indicates that someone posting here isn't calibrating his display very often :eek:, and not updating his software very often :eek: and just to be absolutely sure, I launched the software today (I recalibrate every 30 days), no mention of an update. And as I answered in my first post, after recalibrating, MY unit today is just as it should be! No issues.
Time to re watch a favorite film: Full Metal Jacket (http://digitaldog.net/files/FullMetalJacket.jpg).  ;D

And your point is?
Title: Re: NEC SpectraViewII update causes color shift?
Post by: digitaldog on August 02, 2018, 08:10:37 pm
And your point is?
... over your head.... ;D
Title: Re: NEC SpectraViewII update causes color shift?
Post by: Frans Waterlander on August 02, 2018, 08:14:23 pm
... over your head.... ;D

Right. You don't know what's causing this issue, but never mind, people bashing is your favorite pass time apparently.
Title: Re: NEC SpectraViewII update causes color shift?
Post by: digitaldog on August 02, 2018, 08:22:14 pm
Right. You don't know what's causing this issue....
Again, no issue on this end (http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=126177.msg1059764#msg1059764). Maybe you’ll find someone who does but considering this build has been out 4 months, it’s as likely a human vision deficiency as anything else. Good luck & Goodbye.
Title: Re: NEC SpectraViewII update causes color shift?
Post by: Frans Waterlander on August 02, 2018, 11:23:14 pm
Again, no issue on this end (http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=126177.msg1059764#msg1059764). Maybe you’ll find someone who does but considering this build has been out 4 months, it’s as likely a human vision deficiency as anything else. Good luck & Goodbye.

Oh, I see, my vision is likely deficient! When I consistently see a difference with different versions of SpectraView and can correct it consistently, it's my vision! Doesn't make sense, Andrew, doesn't make sense.
Title: Re: NEC SpectraViewII update causes color shift?
Post by: digitaldog on August 03, 2018, 08:27:31 am
Oh, I see, my vision is likely deficient!
That’s quite funny. ;D
Title: Re: NEC SpectraViewII update causes color shift?
Post by: Alan Goldhammer on August 03, 2018, 09:19:02 am
A lot of SpectraView updates are for new hardware.  If your system does not have any of the indicated hardware in the update message you really don't have to update.  As the old saying goes, '...if something works, be happy...'
Title: Re: NEC SpectraViewII update causes color shift?
Post by: digitaldog on August 03, 2018, 10:00:03 am
A lot of SpectraView updates are for new hardware.  If your system does not have any of the indicated hardware in the update message you really don't have to update.  As the old saying goes, '...if something works, be happy...'
Exactly! And the facts to back you up for Franz:
Reversion History:
V1.1.37: April 6 2018
Added support for the C751Q, C861Q, C981Q, EA245WMi-2, EA271F, P754Q, PA271Q, V754Q, V864Q, and V984Q.
Title: Re: NEC SpectraViewII update causes color shift?
Post by: Alan Goldhammer on August 03, 2018, 10:04:09 am
Exactly! And the facts to back you up for Franz:
Reversion History:
V1.1.37: April 6 2018
Added support for the C751Q, C861Q, C981Q, EA245WMi-2, EA271F, P754Q, PA271Q, V754Q, V864Q, and V984Q.
I'm still running V1.1.34 because I've not done any hardware updates to my PC since building it two years ago.  I did get a new NEC monitor earlier this year but that one did not require any new version.  I've found NEC very responsive to correcting software glitches and addressing new equipment (even if it does not affect me).
Title: Re: NEC SpectraViewII update causes color shift?
Post by: Frans Waterlander on August 06, 2018, 03:47:03 pm
Just spoke with NEC tech support level 2. They are not aware that a SpectraView II revision update would cause the color shift I've noticed. So, I'm still in the dark as to why this is happening.
Title: Re: NEC SpectraViewII update causes color shift?
Post by: digitaldog on August 06, 2018, 04:13:04 pm
So, I'm still in the dark as to why this is happening.
We are in violent agreement.  ;D
If you actually RTFM, you'll see how to measure the display using both versions and come up with some actual measured data rather than make assumptions. But really, it's a waste of your time. Like most of the posts here. Revert back to the old version and be happy as NOTHING in the new version, with or without the so called 'color cast' is necessary for you. But we've been over that fact already.
Title: Re: NEC SpectraViewII update causes color shift?
Post by: Frans Waterlander on August 06, 2018, 04:18:30 pm
We are in violent agreement.  ;D
If you actually RTFM, you'll see how to measure the display using both versions and come up with some actual measured data rather than make assumptions. But really, it's a waste of your time. Like most of the posts here. Revert back to the old version and be happy as NOTHING in the new version, with or without the so called 'color cast' is necessary for you. But we've been over that fact already.

And this is helping how? I RTFM, know how to measure and calibrate and in spite of that there is a color shift. Nothing, absolutely nothing you have said on this issue has been of any help, but apparently you can't stop venting; maybe you should and stop chasing away others who might have some helpful hints.
Title: Re: NEC SpectraViewII update causes color shift?
Post by: digitaldog on August 06, 2018, 04:20:28 pm
And this is helping how? I RTFM, know how to measure and calibrate and in spite of that there is a color shift. Nothing, absolutely nothing you have said on this issue has been of any help, but apparently you can't stop venting; maybe you should and stop chasing away others who might have some helpful hints.

Boy, I need to really connect the dots for you bud. You install older version and measure. You jot down the values. You install the newer version and do the same. Get it? I don't think so but I've tried.
If you think answering your questions is venting, maybe you should stop asking questions. Or to put it another way, from a fine film (Pulp Fiction):
Jules: If my answers frighten you then you should cease asking scary questions.  :o
Title: Re: NEC SpectraViewII update causes color shift?
Post by: Alan Goldhammer on August 06, 2018, 05:43:28 pm
Jules: If my answers frighten you then you should cease asking scary questions.  :o
Another good one is the third proverb for paranoids from Pynchon's 'Gravity's Rainbow:' 3. If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers.
Title: Re: NEC SpectraViewII update causes color shift?
Post by: Frans Waterlander on August 06, 2018, 05:45:55 pm
Boy, I need to really connect the dots for you bud. You install older version and measure. You jot down the values. You install the newer version and do the same. Get it? I don't think so but I've tried.
If you think answering your questions is venting, maybe you should stop asking questions. Or to put it another way, from a fine film (Pulp Fiction):
Jules: If my answers frighten you then you should cease asking scary questions.  :o

Oh, and you think I didn't do that? Older version, calibrate to gamma 2.2, CCT 5200K, 105 nits: nearly perfect match. Newer version, calibrate to gamma 2.2, CCT 5200K, 105 nits: monitor image slightly cooler than the reference print. Recalibrate with the newer version to gamma 2.2, CCT 5500K, 105 nits: nearly perfect match. All calibrations are dead-on in that final values are within a hair of the target values.
Title: Re: NEC SpectraViewII update causes color shift?
Post by: Wayne Fox on August 06, 2018, 05:54:56 pm

I’ve never seen a shift in color after updating.  I’ve been on the new version since the software told me to update (several months ago), and like Rodney recalibrate my 301w and 302w every 30 days.  Never an issue. The calibration after the new software matched perfectly.

Whatever the reason, it’s not the software.  Something unique to your system is causing the problem, so instead of trying to figure it out, just use the new software with the new values that gives you your match.  If this was a bug, there are quite a few users that would have reported it months ago.

Or you can spend a bunch of time trying to figure it out, but no one can help since it’s unique to your setup. 
Title: Re: NEC SpectraViewII update causes color shift?
Post by: digitaldog on August 06, 2018, 05:58:15 pm
Oh, and you think I didn't do that? Older version, calibrate to gamma 2.2, CCT 5200K, 105 nits: nearly perfect match. Newer version, calibrate to gamma 2.2, CCT 5200K, 105 nits: monitor image slightly cooler than the reference print. Recalibrate with the newer version to gamma 2.2, CCT 5500K, 105 nits: nearly perfect match. All calibrations are dead-on in that final values are within a hair of the target values.
You still haven't! Lost in color space again. If you had, you'd provide the two sets or more of measured values, then I'd hold your hand again and tell you the deltaE difference.
Title: Re: NEC SpectraViewII update causes color shift?
Post by: digitaldog on August 06, 2018, 06:00:07 pm
I’ve never seen a shift in color after updating.  I’ve been on the new version since the software told me to update (several months ago), and like Rodney recalibrate my 301w and 302w every 30 days.  Never an issue. The calibration after the new software matched perfectly.
Wrong answer for one (https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?action=profile;u=72202) who want's a different answer.
Correct answer for those (https://www.photo.net/discuss/threads/nec-spectraviewii-update-causes-color-shift.5510182/page-2#post-5685463) that just want the facts.  ;)
Title: Re: NEC SpectraViewII update causes color shift?
Post by: Frans Waterlander on August 06, 2018, 06:27:59 pm
You still haven't! Lost in color space again. If you had, you'd provide the two sets or more of measured values, then I'd hold your hand again and tell you the deltaE difference.

Enlighten me, Oh Wise One.
Title: Re: NEC SpectraViewII update causes color shift?
Post by: digitaldog on August 06, 2018, 06:29:01 pm
Enlighten me, Oh Wise One.
Again: RTFM.
Title: Re: NEC SpectraViewII update causes color shift?
Post by: Frans Waterlander on August 06, 2018, 06:30:42 pm
Again: RTFM.

I did RTFM. It would be nice if you elaborated and helped me out.
Title: Re: NEC SpectraViewII update causes color shift?
Post by: digitaldog on August 06, 2018, 06:44:29 pm
I did RTFM. It would be nice if you elaborated and helped me out.
Read it again, much more slowly. It’s all in there!
And alternative. I’d be happy to provide on-site training at a fee of $2000 per day plus expenses. I suggest you dedicate two days to learn how to measure your display with both the software versions. Then I can teach you how to calculate the Delta E differences between the two measurements. Hopefully two full days of on-site training will be sufficient for you to understand this concept.  :o
Certainly an author of your stature should find this in affordable alternative.
Title: Re: NEC SpectraViewII update causes color shift?
Post by: Frans Waterlander on August 06, 2018, 06:49:14 pm
Read it again, much more slowly. It’s all in there!
And alternative. I’d be happy to provide on-site training at a fee of $2000 per day plus expenses. I suggest you dedicate two days to learn how to measure your display with both the software versions. Then I can teach you how to calculate the Delta E differences between the two measurements. Hopefully two full days of on-site training will be sufficient for you to understand this concept.  :o
Certainly an author of your stature should find this in affordable alternative.

Please justify yourself or remain silent (aka put up or shut up).
Title: Re: NEC SpectraViewII update causes color shift?
Post by: digitaldog on August 06, 2018, 06:51:18 pm
Please justify yourself or remain silent (aka put up or shut up).
I’ve totally justified myself. Again just tell me what you want to hear and then we can all finish this up even if the answer is completely made up. Otherwise no your request has been denied!
Title: Re: NEC SpectraViewII update causes color shift?
Post by: digitaldog on August 06, 2018, 07:27:23 pm
Frans has been cross posting here and over at PhotoNet. Seems there's a post there that addresses his concerns if anyone other than Frans here is interested:
https://www.photo.net/discuss/threads/nec-spectraviewii-update-causes-color-shift.5510182/page-2#post-5685470 (https://www.photo.net/discuss/threads/nec-spectraviewii-update-causes-color-shift.5510182/page-2#post-5685470)
Man, I'm so happy that's all set and done.  ;D

 
EDIT: just got this (http://digitaldog.net/files/PreidentalSpectraView.jpg) from NEC Q support; another happy customer.
Title: Re: NEC SpectraViewII update causes color shift?
Post by: Frans Waterlander on August 06, 2018, 07:54:29 pm
I rest my case.
Title: Re: NEC SpectraViewII update causes color shift?
Post by: digitaldog on August 06, 2018, 07:56:18 pm
I rest my case.
Your resulting silence will be golden.