Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: dgberg on June 15, 2018, 09:32:44 am
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Getting harder and harder pushing paper prints with all the new substrates out today.
Here is the first glass dye sub 20x30 hung in my studio.
Printer Epson P8000 converted to dye sub ink. 1/8" tempered glass with sublimation coating.
It was a lot easier hanging the 12x18's that have predrilled holes.
I used the edge standouts for hanging.
Took me an hour to hang this one and I have all the tools and know how.
Not sure how this hanging method will go over with the average home consumer, TBD.
Anyway they look fantastic and with the proper lighting, just stunning.
Next project will be to make an LED lightbox for one of these.
Image Lamar Valley North Yellowstone.
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Prints look great! Would like to hear about the lightbox progress.
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Getting harder and harder pushing paper prints with all the new substrates out today.
Here is the first glass dye sub 20x30 hung in my studio.
Printer Epson P8000 converted to dye sub ink. 1/8" tempered glass with sublimation coating.
It was a lot easier hanging the 12x18's that have predrilled holes.
I used the edge standouts for hanging.
Took me an hour to hang this one and I have all the tools and know how.
Not sure how this hanging method will go over with the average home consumer, TBD.
Anyway they look fantastic and with the proper lighting, just stunning.
Next project will be to make an LED lightbox for one of these.
Image Lamar Valley North Yellowstone.
How do you protect the back from damage when handling--laminate?
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No protection required. That dye sub coating is extremely tough.
It is a slightly different coating then what is on the Chromaluxe Metals but just as tough. I am told.
Once those dye inks are infused into the coating with pressure and 400 degree heat from the heat press it is super hard.
This is nothing at all like what Breathing Color sells.
They have a metal print with an Ink Aid type coating that needs some sort of laminate protection.
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Getting harder and harder pushing paper prints with all the new substrates out today.
Here is the first glass dye sub 20x30 hung in my studio.
Printer Epson P8000 converted to dye sub ink. 1/8" tempered glass with sublimation coating.
It was a lot easier hanging the 12x18's that have predrilled holes.
I used the edge standouts for hanging.
Took me an hour to hang this one and I have all the tools and know how.
Not sure how this hanging method will go over with the average home consumer, TBD.
Anyway they look fantastic and with the proper lighting, just stunning.
Next project will be to make an LED lightbox for one of these.
Image Lamar Valley North Yellowstone.
Prints look great Dan. Very cool. Thanks for posting this.
Mark
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No protection required. That dye sub coating is extremely tough.
It is a slightly different coating then what is on the Chromaluxe Metals but just as tough. I am told.
Once those dye inks are infused into the coating with pressure and 400 degree heat from the heat press it is super hard.
This is nothing at all like what Breathing Color sells.
They have a metal print with an Ink Aid type coating that needs some sort of laminate protection.
Must be a stunning impression it makes. Profile creation done by the media supplier?
Ernst, op de lei getypt.
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Does it look better than face mounted acrylic?
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Ernst,
I wish.
I purchased a new Epson P8000 converted it to dye sublimation and made the profile myself.
I was on my own because Epson does not support converting one of there printers to dye sublimation.
There is a post back several pages on the printer forum about the whole process I went through.
The only way I could get a 8 channel dye sub printer was to convert a new one. The 9890 was one of the best for this but they stopped making them.
I did not want to buy someone else trouble (A used one.) and knew I could convert a new one now that the ink cart chips are cracked.
Was quite a task too. Think I used an entire roll of paper numerous substrates and about 20% of my first batch of ink.
Used my i1 Photo Pro spectro. Printed on transfer paper, pressed it to metal. Read off the metal with i1 and done. After a dozen attempts. :)
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Does it look better than face mounted acrylic?
Personally I think it is as good. None of the mounting dust issues and super easy and quick to produce.
The only issue I am running into is mounting options. Looks great when hung on the standout posts.
Not an easy mount for the homeowner to hang.
The glass is light transparent from both sides so if you mount something to the back it takes that part of it away.
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Personally I think it is as good. None of the mounting dust issues and super easy and quick to produce.
The only issue I am running into is mounting options. Looks great when hung on the standout posts.
Not an easy mount for the homeowner to hang.
The glass is light transparent from both sides so if you mount something to the back it takes that part of it away.
I know with face mounted acrylic it's easy enough to glue an acrylic support (various types) on the back to hang the picture with. Is there nothing similar for what you're doing?
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You certainly could but something on the back but the glass is almost transparent.
Whatever you put on the back as a hanger would show through the front.
You can put the smaller ones on acrylic feet and see the image through both sides.
The image would be reversed when viewing through the back. The coating itself is a matte finish.
You have a hi-gloss image from the front and matte from behind. Quite unique.
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You certainly could but something on the back but the glass is almost transparent.
Whatever you put on the back as a hanger would show through the front.
You can put the smaller ones on acrylic feet and see the image through both sides.
The image would be reversed when viewing through the back. The coating itself is a matte finish.
You have a hi-gloss image from the front and matte from behind. Quite unique.
Didn't think about that, and that's why you're forced to use standoffs. I hope you find it's worth all the effort. I use this behind my acrylic panels: https://www.tapplastics.com/product/plastics/plastic_rods_tubes_shapes/clear_square_acrylic_tubing/142
but even this might show through.
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Didn't think about that, and that's why you're forced to use standoffs. I hope you find it's worth all the effort. I use this behind my acrylic panels: https://www.tapplastics.com/product/plastics/plastic_rods_tubes_shapes/clear_square_acrylic_tubing/142
but even this might show through.
Very interesting.
Thank you.
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Looks a lot better than ceramic frit printed glass, although this has also advanced a lot over the last few years (the chief deficiency being the lack of pink/magenta and aqua/teal tones at present, since the existing ones are lead/cadmium/arsenic/other heavy metal based). I'd say it looks similar to pigment prints on glass/acrylic or printed polyester film sandwiched in glass - these have the advantage of using long-lasting pigment inks, but the obvious disadvantage of potential delamination or bubbling before the pigments fail.
I'd expect ceramic frit printing to really take off once they sort out this gamut issue - unlike dye sub and other current print technologies, these pigments are essentially light-fast, making them suitable for extreme long-term outdoor use, such as for architectural glass or large-scale artworks, and, being fused into the glass or ceramic itself, is also protected from physical and chemical attack. Already, it's seeing limited architectural use, firstly for shading patterns and, more recently, for graphics as well. Photo-quality output is the next step, and is already nearly there, provided the photo doesn't include out-of-gamut colours. And new forms of glass and ceramic, too, will likely expand their role - flexible glasses, non-brittle glasses and ceramics (doesn't break when it falls off the wall) and ultra-light ceramics, in both transparent and white, all of which have been made in the lab, will make ceramic and glass, together with printing processes designed for them, usable for many things which, up until now, have been made from other materials.
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Looks a lot better than ceramic frit printed glass, although this has also advanced a lot over the last few years (the chief deficiency being the lack of pink/magenta and aqua/teal tones at present, since the existing ones are lead/cadmium/arsenic/other heavy metal based). I'd say it looks similar to pigment prints on glass/acrylic or printed polyester film sandwiched in glass - these have the advantage of using long-lasting pigment inks, but the obvious disadvantage of potential delamination or bubbling before the pigments fail.
I'd expect ceramic frit printing to really take off once they sort out this gamut issue - unlike dye sub and other current print technologies, these pigments are essentially light-fast, making them suitable for extreme long-term outdoor use, such as for architectural glass or large-scale artworks, and, being fused into the glass or ceramic itself, is also protected from physical and chemical attack. Already, it's seeing limited architectural use, firstly for shading patterns and, more recently, for graphics as well. Photo-quality output is the next step, and is already nearly there, provided the photo doesn't include out-of-gamut colours. And new forms of glass and ceramic, too, will likely expand their role - flexible glasses, non-brittle glasses and ceramics (doesn't break when it falls off the wall) and ultra-light ceramics, in both transparent and white, all of which have been made in the lab, will make ceramic and glass, together with printing processes designed for them, usable for many things which, up until now, have been made from other materials.
Very interesting, thank you.
This is considered a higher end print option. Cost for the glass substrate is a little higher then metal. Overall cost maybe a little less then facemounting.
Not so much an issue of substrate costs but the cost for wide format dye sub printer and a heat press to match.
For now the max size for glass is 20x30. Trying to talk manufacturing into at least a 24x36.
It is tempered but still has a very slight flex to it. At only .125 that may be the issue for going larger, not sure.
Other mounting options would also be desirable.
Still looking for input on cost as no one is selling these larger then 11x14. To date.
Our pricing TBD.
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Dan, I'm assuming that part of the appeal of the glass print is its translucency? If not, have you tried or at least considered laminating an opaque backing to it? Maybe something like a sheet of metallic paper or polyester might still serve to keep some of the "glow" of the print while allowing you to use regular hanging hardware.
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Good idea, I have several small samples to fool with.
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...Looks great when hung on the standout posts...
Might be just me, but I never liked any hanging solution that interferes with (penetrates?) the image. Not unlike the hated iPhone X "notch." Also, these were always annoying me to no end (I guess it reminds me of fancy office signage):
(http://gicleemedia.com.au/gms43/images/T/Clear%20with%20Al.jpg)
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Really? The inkcart chips have been hacked?
There was an earlier attempt with some Chinese carts that would let you operate for awhile then lock down the printer for good.
If this is a new one that’s good news. When did that happen?
I don’t get around enough.
Beware of doing printer firmware updates. Epson already did that sneaky procedure on one of the desktop units that had been in use with third party carts, stopping acceptance of the chips. Who is making the carts?
Ernst,
I wish.
I purchased a new Epson P8000 converted it to dye sublimation and made the profile myself.
I was on my own because Epson does not support converting one of there printers to dye sublimation.
There is a post back several pages on the printer forum about the whole process I went through.
The only way I could get a 8 channel dye sub printer was to convert a new one. The 9890 was one of the best for this but they stopped making them.
I did not want to buy someone else trouble (A used one.) and knew I could convert a new one now that the ink cart chips are cracked.
Was quite a task too. Think I used an entire roll of paper numerous substrates and about 20% of my first batch of ink.
Used my i1 Photo Pro spectro. Printed on transfer paper, pressed it to metal. Read off the metal with i1 and done. After a dozen attempts. :)
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It is for real alright.
To elaborate they are one time use chips,
not resettable. 700 ml refillable carts.
When they run low to the warning point you pull the cart refill it with 11 cents per ml dye sub ink.
Replace the chip with one of the $19 replacement chips.
Yes I know it is not the same as truly hacked but close enough for me and it works.
My Sawgrss dye sub ink was costing me a $1.40 per ml..
Paid off the printer with the first set of inks.
Know all too well to stay away from new firmware updates.
My carts and ink are from inkowl. I believe Jon Cone (Inkjetmall) finally has the 6,7,8000 carts for sale.
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It is for real alright.
To elaborate they are one time use chips,
not resettable. 700 ml refillable carts.
When they run low to the warning point you pull the cart refill it with 11 cents per ml dye sub ink.
Replace the chip with one of their $19 replacement chips.
Yes I know it is not the same as truely acked but close enough for me.
My Sawgrss dye sub ink was costing me a $1.40 per ml..
Paid or the printer with the first set of inks.
Know all too well to tay away from new irmware updates.
Why not just go with a used Epson instead? I just picked up a 9800 for $600 that (I assume) would work just fine for dye sub.
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The new Epson was only $3195. With regards to business investments that is pretty cheap.
Also did not want to get someone elses trouble.
Maybe a used one would run for a year or two maybe even 5 then it is throw away and you start all over again.
You have to buy the refillable carts anyway no matter what model you purchase. If you get a used one you have to go through the fill and flush routine which is a real pain.
Did I say the P8000 is fast well it is. Probably twice as fast as my 9890 and 9900.