Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: pikeys on June 14, 2018, 06:27:32 pm
-
I'm hoping some learned members,can clarify this for me.
Am printing an image using Ilford Gold Fiber Silk,and Canson Baryta Photographique.;
I'm using the Canon Pro-1 printer for both images.
When I view both images ,they look almost identical,yes,I am giving both images 24 hours to dry,and I have double check,triple checked,the profiles.
I'm totally confused with this?
Is it possible that both papers are so close to each other,that this is to be expected??
Any thoughts/help will be appreciated-Thanks,
Pikeys
-
Yes it is.
-
Viewing both papers side by side, no image, do they look virtually identical under different light sources?
-
Rodney,
Yes,they look identical
Many thanks,
Pikeys
-
Yes it is.
Thanks for your reply,Mark
pikeys
-
I've noticed the same thing but with canvas as well. It's like all the companies use the same emulsions and only the paper itself makes a difference anymore. The big noticeable difference comes when you use different printers with different inksets on the same paper.
-
I've noticed the same thing but with canvas as well. It's like all the companies use the same emulsions and only the paper itself makes a difference anymore. The big noticeable difference comes when you use different printers with different inksets on the same paper.
Exactly,and I do use 2 printers.with..the pro-10; I use OEM ink,& the Pro-1,I use third party inks,but,they are so close to OEM{Precision Colors} inks,at times,it's hard to tell the difference.
That said,these two papers are excellent ,and I use them a daily.
Pikeys
-
Is it possible that both papers are so close to each other,that this is to be expected??
Any thoughts/help will be appreciated-Thanks,
Pikeys
Lots of media being coated at the same facility with the same chemistry and then being sold under different private labels these days. The two you mentioned are highly likely to fall into that category.
-
Lots of media being coated at the same facility with the same chemistry and then being sold under different private labels these days. The two you mentioned are highly likely to fall into that category.
That's what I was thinking. I use two completely Canson products, their Baryta Prestige and their MuseumPro Canvas. When I accidentally used the canvas profile on the paper using the same image (I forgot to change it) the results were identical, I can easily interchange the icc profiles without notice.
-
That's what I was thinking. I use two completely Canson products, their Baryta Prestige and their MuseumPro Canvas. When I accidentally used the canvas profile on the paper using the same image (I forgot to change it) the results were identical, I can easily interchange the icc profiles without notice.
Wow! I wouldn't have expected that pair to have the same coating, but it could happen. Anyway, media like Red River Palo Duro Softgloss, Epson Legacy Platine, Canson Platine Fiber Rag, as a group, or Ilford Gold Fiber Silk, Canson Baryta Photographique, and Epson legacy Baryta as another group look, feel, and print so amazingly close in all visual and physical properties, that it would be hard to tell them apart in a blind coded study. Just sayin...
cheers,
Mark
http://www.ardenburg-imaging.com
-
I agree.
-
Years ago, in the early days of baryta papers, I did a little controlled experiment using Andrew Rodney's original printer test image to see how a variety of baryta and non-baryta papers responded to identical inking in my iPF 5000: Canon's "Special #5 media type (the heaviest inking for PK papers), and identical printer driver settings.
I was expecting to see big differences, but when the papers were strewn randomly on a table under good light, hard to tell apart, the differences very slight - mostly dependant on the base tint, with the Polar Satin the whitest. The one outlier was the Harmon, with a slightly yellowish warmer cast than it's base whiteness would predict. But no specific color shifts or other surprises i was expecting to see.
With prints thoroughly dried I scanned each 8.5x11 image on my Epson V700 scanner with identical settings, including white point set to show base paper tint differences. I did a total of nine PK papers, including Ilford, Red River, Hahne., and Harmon brands. Six of these scans are in a Flickr album: R.R. Polar Satin and UltraPro Satin-2; Hahne Fine Art Pearl and Photo Rag Pearl; Ilford Gold Fibre Silk; and Harmon FbAl Gloss:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/8075035@N03/albums/72157624569134778
Since then I've been using RR satins for my proofing (currently Palo Duro), and Ilford GFS for display - printed with PS control and the same media type (Special #5), and Canon profile (Canon iPF5100 Photo Paper Plus Semigloss-highest). Except for the rather intangible qualities of depth and "presence", and of course the paper feel, they are quite identical.
-
I'm hoping some learned members,can clarify this for me.
Am printing an image using Ilford Gold Fiber Silk,and Canson Baryta Photographique.;
I'm using the Canon Pro-1 printer for both images.
When I view both images ,they look almost identical,yes,I am giving both images 24 hours to dry,and I have double check,triple checked,the profiles.
I'm totally confused with this?
Is it possible that both papers are so close to each other,that this is to be expected??
Any thoughts/help will be appreciated-Thanks,
Pikeys
Check the SpectrumViz app at www.pigment-print.com , if the spectral plots are near identical within a group of papers the prints are often identical too.
Ernst, op de lei getypt.
-
Years ago, in the early days of baryta papers, I did a little controlled experiment using Andrew Rodney's original printer test image to see how a variety of baryta and non-baryta papers responded to identical inking in my iPF 5000: Canon's "Special #5 media type (the heaviest inking for PK papers), and identical printer driver settings.
I was expecting to see big differences, but when the papers were strewn randomly on a table under good light, hard to tell apart, the differences very slight - mostly dependant on the base tint, with the Polar Satin the whitest. The one outlier was the Harmon, with a slightly yellowish warmer cast than it's base whiteness would predict. But no specific color shifts or other surprises i was expecting to see.
With prints thoroughly dried I scanned each 8.5x11 image on my Epson V700 scanner with identical settings, including white point set to show base paper tint differences. I did a total of nine PK papers, including Ilford, Red River, Hahne., and Harmon brands. Six of these scans are in a Flickr album: R.R. Polar Satin and UltraPro Satin-2; Hahne Fine Art Pearl and Photo Rag Pearl; Ilford Gold Fibre Silk; and Harmon FbAl Gloss:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/8075035@N03/albums/72157624569134778
Since then I've been using RR satins for my proofing (currently Palo Duro), and Ilford GFS for display - printed with PS control and the same media type (Special #5), and Canon profile (Canon iPF5100 Photo Paper Plus Semigloss-highest). Except for the rather intangible qualities of depth and "presence", and of course the paper feel, they are quite identical.
Yes,I've added RR Palo Duro SGR,to my list
Many thanks for your excellent post.
pikeys
-
I'm hoping some learned members,can clarify this for me.
Am printing an image using Ilford Gold Fiber Silk,and Canson Baryta Photographique.;
I'm using the Canon Pro-1 printer for both images.
When I view both images ,they look almost identical,yes,I am giving both images 24 hours to dry,and I have double check,triple checked,the profiles.
I'm totally confused with this?
Is it possible that both papers are so close to each other,that this is to be expected??
Any thoughts/help will be appreciated-Thanks,
Pikeys
So why is this a problem? :)
Most likely they are manufactured by the same people and rebranded. I am surprised that the two prints came out identical if you were using canned profiles for the two papers. I guess they did a real good job of making the profiles for you printer. Or you did the profiles yourself?
I have a sample pack of the Canson Baryta that I bought to compare with Silk as well. Since the two are very similar, I might change to Canson after I run out of my current ilford stock since the Canson is a little less expensive, although not by much lately.
-
Well,if you are so concerned about saving money-I suggest the RR Palo Duro SGR.
I never said it was a problem,I was just curious.
pikeys
-
Well,if you are so concerned about saving money-I suggest the RR Palo Duro SGR.
I never said it was a problem,I was just curious.
pikeys
It's in your title...but never mind, I was kidding anyway.
Haven't considered this particular Red River. Price and look are considerations. But so are others like the paper chemistry, OBA content etc. Wonder how the Palo Duro stacks up with the other two in those aspects.
-
Check my paper reviews, this website.
-
Check my paper reviews, this website.
Just looked at the great long review of RR papers...San Gabriel looks pretty good too. Thanks.
-
Yes, San Gabriel is really nice - very much like Ilford Gold Fibre Silk.
-
FYI - Ilford Gold Fibre Silk & Red River San Gabriel II
Colorthink plots from custom ICC profiles made by a very competent person who frequents this web site:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-V5XMSL9/0/7fb42621/L/i-V5XMSL9-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-MF4crJj/0/5c32308e/L/i-MF4crJj-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-xS5Sm47/0/2b551eb3/L/i-xS5Sm47-L.jpg)
I had previously tried / tested Red River's original San Gabriel. It was lackluster, just awful IMO, and I gave the remaining paper in the box away. Then when they hyped the new Version II, and I read Mark's report, I gave it a try. First class stuff at a very reasonable price. But this illustrates, I think, why your prints look so similar. I find RR San Gabriel II, Ilford Gold Fibre Silk, Epson Legacy Baryta and Canson Baryta Photographique all VERY similar. There appears to be very minor differences in "paper white" that sometimes has me choose one over the other, but for the most part they are equivalent.
Rand
-
Excellent post Rand-Thank You,
I'm kind of hooked on Palo Duro SGR,been using it,almost everyday.
Also,it's at a perfect price.
Pikeys
-
Looks like coating technology has reached a peak that everyone can obtain. At this rate it's going to get to the point where the only differences between paper companies will be their price and marketing. Is that good or bad?
-
LOL,one thing you forgot...the actual feel of the paper.
Maybe that's why ,I'm leaning to RR SGR.??
pikeys
-
LOL,one thing you forgot...the actual feel of the paper.
Maybe that's why ,I'm leaning to RR SGR.??
pikeys
Not much "feel" behind glass. ;)
-
LOL,one thing you forgot...the actual feel of the paper.
Maybe that's why ,I'm leaning to RR SGR.??
pikeys
I know what you mean. Ilford’s Gold Fibre “Gloss” has become one of my absolute favorites for this very reason.
Rand