Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: tom_l on October 07, 2006, 01:00:30 pm
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Hi, just watched MR's last video online, how could i not discover this new toy in Cologne: The Flexibody. And how is it possible noone mentionned it ob the forum?
Looks like my flexbody's twin brother:
http://www.silvestricamera.it/eng/news_eng/news.htm (http://www.silvestricamera.it/eng/news_eng/news.htm)
Most important, it has a sliding back, the Flexbody from Hasselblad hasn't. Not that i would miss one in the studio, (especially when the new + phase backs have live preview), but on location i sometimes wish Hasselblad's engineers should have passed another few days more on the design of my favourite camera and add a slider.
Yes, it can the the 35mm XL, yes it can also take my old Zeiss lenses, but I wonder how this can work at infinity focus?
Interesting times
tom-
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but I wonder how this can work at infinity focus?
Tom, this camera caught my attention too as I'm also a regular user of the Hasselblad flexbody. I guess the answer to your infinity focus question is that the relatively large back focus distance on the Hasselblad gives the camera designer a lot of room to play with, look at how the Flexbody squeezes in a set of bellows as well as 28 degrees of tilt capacity without too much difficulty!
I'll be taking a serious look at the Silvestri, I've used a few Silvestri components on a Linhof M679 and they're well designed and well engineered.
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Tom, this camera caught my attention too as I'm also a regular user of the Hasselblad flexbody. I guess the answer to your infinity focus question is that the relatively large back focus distance on the Hasselblad gives the camera designer a lot of room to play with, look at how the Flexbody squeezes in a set of bellows as well as 28 degrees of tilt capacity without too much difficulty!
I'll be taking a serious look at the Silvestri, I've used a few Silvestri components on a Linhof M679 and they're well designed and well engineered.
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Thanx Gary,
you're probably right, ass I do a lot of reproduction and macro with the flexbody, I rarely use it at infinity focus.
This year seems to bring a lot of new hardware in the MF world. I hope the silvestri will be as well made as the Flexbody from Hasselblad. I'll wait and i'll wonder...
Tom-
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What do you think about using Flexicam with Hasselblad telephoto lenses, 180mm and longer? Hasselblad telephoto lenses are physically longer than LF lenses.
Flexbody uses rear tilt so using lenses with long physical length was no problem, but isnt this a problem using front tilt?
Any ideas if it possible to rebuild the Flexbody, shorten it a little bit and attaching the new smaller Silvestri sliding back? The winding crank is not necessary when only using it for digital photography. It shouldn't be impossible...
/Urban
(who have never used front tilt...)
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Seeing you guys here are big Flexbody fans... and I just happen to have one too but have not used it with a digital back yet... do you get any issues with colour cast?... and what DB's do you use?
Would be great to know.
Thanks
Andrew
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There are colour cast issues with the Flexbody and a Phase One P25 when shifts are applied, especially with the wider lenses.
Incidentally, the longest lens I've used with the Flexbody is the 350mm superachromat complete with the x1.4 extender, you need two tripods (one on the lens and one on the body) to keep the shot sharp and shake free. More normally I regularly use a 180mm and the heavy 40mm IF on a Flexbody without problems, rear tilt is the only option as the rear standard pivots around the centre-line.
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There are colour cast issues with the Flexbody and a Phase One P25 when shifts are applied,
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Thanks for the info Gary.
I thought that would be the case with the Phase DB so I have my eye on an Aptus 22 (or my wish-list anyhow).
Do you know if anyone has had colour cast problems with this setup?
Have you ever trid it?
I can't afford an A75 at the moment so the centre-line issues with that one are not really an option for me.
Thanks for your comments
Andrew
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Has anyone used a Flexicam with a Canon/Nikon Digital SLR, as shown here>
http://www.silvestricamera.it/eng/prodotti...lexicamback.htm (http://www.silvestricamera.it/eng/prodotti_eng/Flexicam/Flexicamback.htm)
What lens would one need to equate to a 50mm standard?
Thanks.
D.
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What is the cost of the camera, sliding back, and actuator for V-lenses?
I wish Gottschalt or Sinar would offer a Sinar lensboard capable of geared rise/fall/tilt as Arca-Swiss has engineered in their R-series.
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Has anyone used a Flexicam with a Canon/Nikon Digital SLR, as shown here>
http://www.silvestricamera.it/eng/prodotti...lexicamback.htm (http://www.silvestricamera.it/eng/prodotti_eng/Flexicam/Flexicamback.htm)
What lens would one need to equate to a 50mm standard?
Thanks.
D.
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50mm
paul
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looks like $4k USD based on UK pricing...
silvestri pricing (http://www.morco.uk.com/february2007.pdf)
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Hi, coming back to my own old thread...
any news about the silvestri yet?
I^m looking for a nice WA option for occasional outdoor shootings. I considered the Cambo, it`s advantage is portability(i^m a studio guy) and it`s price. I also had a look on the yet to be released Arca R but it will be probably in the Alpa price universe.
Anyway, I own a Hassy V-System and a Flexbody but as you know i`m limited with a 40mm lens, so The Flexicam with it`s possibility to shoot Zeiss glass and digital LF lenses and a sliding adaptor looks too great to be true. I would probably
The camera is on the market afaik but no reviews yet, the Silvestri website doens^t really answer my questions either so i`m looking for a Flexicam owner over here.
The flexicam would be the first cam able to replace a WA camera and a small studio camera for table-top (even if the silvestri hp claims that the Flexicam is limited to 120mm up) Why should it? I hope to use my 180mm Zeiss as well.
tom
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The flexicam would be the first cam able to replace a WA camera and a small studio camera for table-top (even if the silvestri hp claims that the Flexicam is limited to 120mm up) Why should it? I hope to use my 180mm Zeiss as well.
tom
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I asked them this question a few months ago when I was looking into it and they said that anything above 120mm would be too heavy for the front standard to support... is the 180 significantly heavier than the 120mm? If not, then may be it would be fine but that's what they said.
Jonah
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The Flexicam is a great solution for W/A use but any lens over 120mm won't work. I also assume that extension for macro is limited as well.
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The Flexicam is a great solution for W/A use but any lens over 120mm won't work. I also assume that extension for macro is limited as well.
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To revive this thread again, has anyone had experience with this camera?
It looks like an incredible piece of engineering, does anyone know of any distributor in the US and what the price is like?
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I can't speak specifically to the Flexicam but a friend of mine just purchased a Bicam system and it's an incredible piece of engineering. The system has a ton of options for analog and digital.
My buddy bought the system from Bromwell Marketing who's apparently the only US distributor of Silvestri:
http://www.bromwellmarketing.com/ (http://www.bromwellmarketing.com/)
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A major problem is the limited view finder inherent in the 35mm cameras. It will be hard to get precise focus.
Has anyone used a Flexicam with a Canon/Nikon Digital SLR, as shown here>
http://www.silvestricamera.it/eng/prodotti...lexicamback.htm (http://www.silvestricamera.it/eng/prodotti_eng/Flexicam/Flexicamback.htm)
What lens would one need to equate to a 50mm standard?
Thanks.
D.
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While the Silvestri is a nice design, it's still a bellows focus system. Unless you're doing close-up work I'd steer away from any bellows design. It can be very difficult to focus wide lenses like Schneider's 24, 35, 47, etc. I had an Arca 6x9 (beautiful camera!!) but I sold it in favor of a Cambo Wide DS. No focus trouble there.
In response to the person asking about a color cast from a Phase back, this is quickly fixed in the software and is not an issue with any lens on any camera. It's called Lens Cast Calibration and takes only a few clicks to fix.
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While the Silvestri is a nice design, it's still a bellows focus system. Unless you're doing close-up work I'd steer away from any bellows design. It can be very difficult to focus wide lenses like Schneider's 24, 35, 47, etc. I had an Arca 6x9 (beautiful camera!!) but I sold it in favor of a Cambo Wide DS. No focus trouble there.
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Doesn't the Flexicam have a geared mechanism for focusing? I was under the impression that it was quite precise.
Does anyone have recommendations for a digital view camera that can do tilt and swings?
I've searched through the forums and I've read up on a few cameras but it would be helpful to have the choices narrowed down through recommendation.
Size and speed of setup are a big consideration for me.
the Flexicam looks great for such purposes
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Doesn't the Flexicam have a geared mechanism for focusing? I was under the impression that it was quite precise.
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Geared or not, you still have to rely on ground glass/bellows focusing which with these short lenses is quite difficult. The Cambo and many other 'digital' view cameras use helical focus mounts with distance scales on a fixed camera body.
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Geared or not, you still have to rely on ground glass/bellows focusing which with these short lenses is quite difficult. The Cambo and many other 'digital' view cameras use helical focus mounts with distance scales on a fixed camera body.
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So what do people using these backs for landscape work do to get adequate DOF without tilts? Maybe this isn't so much of a problem at 24mm or 35mm, but at longer focal lengths it seems like this would be a serious issue.
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So what do people using these backs for landscape work do to get adequate DOF without tilts? Maybe this isn't so much of a problem at 24mm or 35mm, but at longer focal lengths it seems like this would be a serious issue.
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that's exactly my question...f16 isn't exactly getting me great depth of field with people's faces on my mamiya with a 45mm.
Would help to have tilts to get a nice perspective too, while not dragging out a whole 6x9 monorail system.
I was reading an article on the Cambo which suggested shifting the back and then rotating the camera in the same direction to achieve perspective correction, and I hear some people saying there may not be a need for tilt, can more people chime in to explain why this may be so or why not? I admit my technical knowledge of large format is not the sharpest, I usually just mess around with my Toyo until I get a perspective I like through the groundglass.
Can someone with experience focusing on a groundglass the size of a 645 chip chime in to tell me if it's really that difficult? I see that silvestri has a reflex viewer attachment for the groundglass, sounds like a good idea.
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If you really need tilts then the Silvestri may work well for you, but realize that you are going to spend some time fussing with focus on every shot, even those without tilt. I shoot architecture and used tilts often with a 90mm lens on 4x5, but with a 35XL, the equivalent for the 645 chip, tilts might be nice occasionally but I'd rather have quick and accurate focus the other 99% of the time.
Yes, these shorter lenses do not need tilts and swings as much as 4x5 since they are much shorter focal length. Shorter lenses have deeper depth of field at equivalent apertures compared to longer lenses. Longer lenses may still need tilt, not sure what to say about that, everyone has different expectations. My longest lens on the Cambo is 90mm.
Shooting at f16 is not recommended for digital. Schneider's Digitar series lenses are optimized for between f8 and f11. Diffraction will soften the images beyond that.
I've never tried this, but somewhere out there is a software tool for bracketing focus. You could focus near, then far and stitch these exposures together somehow. The magnification will be different, but I think that's what the software corrects for.
I think the new Arca camera may employ both helical focus and tilt. I'll check it out in New York in October.
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If you really need tilts then the Silvestri may work well for you, but realize that you are going to spend some time fussing with focus on every shot, even those without tilt. I shoot architecture and used tilts often with a 90mm lens on 4x5, but with a 35XL, the equivalent for the 645 chip, tilts might be nice occasionally but I'd rather have quick and accurate focus the other 99% of the time.
Yes, these shorter lenses do not need tilts and swings as much as 4x5 since they are much shorter focal length. Shorter lenses have deeper depth of field at equivalent apertures compared to longer lenses. Longer lenses may still need tilt, not sure what to say about that, everyone has different expectations. My longest lens on the Cambo is 90mm.
Shooting at f16 is not recommended for digital. Schneider's Digitar series lenses are optimized for between f8 and f11. Diffraction will soften the images beyond that.
I've never tried this, but somewhere out there is a software tool for bracketing focus. You could focus near, then far and stitch these exposures together somehow. The magnification will be different, but I think that's what the software corrects for.
I think the new Arca camera may employ both helical focus and tilt. I'll check it out in New York in October.
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forgive me if I sound like an idiot but how do you control perspective distortion without tilts? I use tilts liberally sometimes for selective focusing and was hoping to do so with a digital view camera that's portable enough to carry out on travels
Also, what is your experience with the amount of depth of field when photographing near-far objects such as a human being 3 metres away together with a building 10 metres away? I'm too used to having superb depth of field with my 1Ds MkII so I'm trying to see if I can achieve a similar look with my MF back
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forgive me if I sound like an idiot but how do you control perspective distortion without tilts? I use tilts liberally sometimes for selective focusing and was hoping to do so with a digital view camera that's portable enough to carry out on travels
Also, what is your experience with the amount of depth of field when photographing near-far objects such as a human being 3 metres away together with a building 10 metres away? I'm too used to having superb depth of field with my 1Ds MkII so I'm trying to see if I can achieve a similar look with my MF back
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Ok I did abit more research and found that the Silvestri Bicam is quite a sturdy looking system, was wondering if anyone had experience with it?
Looks like there's the option of using helical focusing or bellows focusing so there's that safety option. and the price seems reasonable too
Bromwell seems to be the only distributor in the US. Can't seem to find a price list from an european distributor, was wondering if it may be cheaper there after tax deduction since I'm flying there for work next month?
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If you really need tilts then the Silvestri may work well for you, but realize that you are going to spend some time fussing with focus on every shot, even those without tilt. I shoot architecture and used tilts often with a 90mm lens on 4x5, but with a 35XL, the equivalent for the 645 chip, tilts might be nice occasionally but I'd rather have quick and accurate focus the other 99% of the time.
Yes, these shorter lenses do not need tilts and swings as much as 4x5 since they are much shorter focal length. Shorter lenses have deeper depth of field at equivalent apertures compared to longer lenses. Longer lenses may still need tilt, not sure what to say about that, everyone has different expectations. My longest lens on the Cambo is 90mm.
I guess there's no free lunch. Right now I shoot a D2x, and while I do frequently use a 12-24, I use my 28-70 as much or more; and sometimes even with hyperfocal focusing DOF can be an issue in that range. Extrapolating to the 645 digital sensor size I guess that would be roughly 80-200mm, which is going to be a real problem for DOF without tilts. Guess I'll have to do some more research, maybe that 20+mp Nikon that's rumoured to be coming next year will be a better option for me after all.
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I shoot with the silvestri bicam II. excellent camera. I shoot it with a P45 H mount. I have the 35mm Rodenstock HR, 55mm rodenstock, 75mm nikkor analog and 105 rodenstock. This type of set up makes the lenses sharper. There is a noticeable in quality when I shoot with that camera versus my regular 4X5 with phase flexadapter. The focus is so much more precise. It is compact and sturdy. It's all metal. I took it to Iceland with me. It was nice to have it and it was almost like shooting with the hasselblad H2. You just set it up, level it, focus it and shoot it. Very quick and very simple. They are coming out with a 2 shot adapter hopefully soon. I would recommend this camera to anyone who would be shooting architecture, desire the best lens quality, and wants light weight portability.
SOLD!!
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I shoot with the silvestri bicam II. excellent camera. I shoot it with a P45 H mount. I have the 35mm Rodenstock HR, 55mm rodenstock, 75mm nikkor analog and 105 rodenstock. This type of set up makes the lenses sharper. There is a noticeable in quality when I shoot with that camera versus my regular 4X5 with phase flexadapter. The focus is so much more precise. It is compact and sturdy. It's all metal. I took it to Iceland with me. It was nice to have it and it was almost like shooting with the hasselblad H2. You just set it up, level it, focus it and shoot it. Very quick and very simple. They are coming out with a 2 shot adapter hopefully soon. I would recommend this camera to anyone who would be shooting architecture, desire the best lens quality, and wants light weight portability.
SOLD!!
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thank you for the info....was looking for some user feedback
yesterday I called Silvestri in Italy and got a lot of information from Silvia
the Bicam seems like a great choice, I can't tell what benefit the Flexicam has over the Bicam since they both seem to have the same specs (except that the Bicam looks sturdier)
David, what is your experience with analog lenses?I'm looking at a bunch of lenses right now and still scratching my head over the differences even between the digital lenses of both companies
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I would stay clear of analog if you are shooting digital. For the most part, it has to do with lens cast issues. Plus, analog lenses are not built to the tolerance as digital. I mean, they completely re-designed the lenses for digital. I happen to have one analog lens that works for whatever reason. It's not as sharp as digital, but it is a hold over from film days so I have kept it. It is especially nice with the bicam focus... If you are in North America, you can contact Blazes Photographic, Mike will help you. Very knowledgeable. I bought my silvestri through him.
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Sorry,
Differnces between Schneider and Rodenstock. Rodenstock has HR lenses that are retro-focus so cleaner image with larger circle of coverage. I think that in my opinion, only, Rodenstock is better. I just like them. Shot with some schneider but I just like the rodenstock lenses. But you can ask the experts and they will give some long explanation one way or the other, but it's personal preference.
David