Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Capture One Q&A => Topic started by: Paul Steunebrink on February 27, 2018, 10:13:26 am
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In the Base Characteristics tool you can select the Linear Response film curve. Although I technically understand the feature and use it occasionally, I am interested in users experiences in day-to-day applications like landscape, architecture or else.
Do you use it and in what kind of circumstances? For example: high contrast / high dynamic range images / to tame the highlights?
I am also interested any additional tools you use to create a desirable tone scale, like Curve tool, Contrast slider or else.
I am open about my intentions: I plan to collect experiences and write a blog post about. In addition, if applicable, create styles to support a linear response workflow with Capture One.
Thank you for reading and responding.
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In the Base Characteristics tool you can select the Linear Response film curve. Although I technically understand the feature and use it occasionally, I am interested in users experiences in day-to-day applications like landscape, architecture or else.
Do you use it and in what kind of circumstances? For example: high contrast / high dynamic range images / to tame the highlights?
I am also interested any additional tools you use to create a desirable tone scale, like Curve tool, Contrast slider or else.
I am open about my intentions: I plan to collect experiences and write a blog post about. In addition, if applicable, create styles to support a linear response workflow with Capture One.
Thank you for reading and responding.
I prefer "linear" all the time for any subject + Camera profile created with dcamprof ( https://www.ludd.ltu.se/~torger/dcamprof.html ) /LrPD ( lumariver.com/lrpd-manual/ ) accounting for "transfer function" and the curve in UI
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Paul, I now process everything in Linear, and I have set up my 5D Mark IV to give me previews that mimic this, and expose accordingly.
I tend to use a combination of Curves and Levels to replace the contrast lost through Linear. I rarely use Contrast.
In HD range images, I try using a little of the Highlight slider in combination with the Highlight slider in the Colour Editor for highlight recovery.
I also shoot Hasselblad and work mostly in Reproduction Mode, Phocus’ Linear equivalent. They recently introduced what they call Reproduction Mode Low Gain - an even flatter curve. I’ve often wondered how flat the C1 curve is in Linear, and could it be even flatter?
I find that, in Linear, files display their full dynamic range and are far more elastic, if that makes sense. Though, I do think that C1 has issues with the 5D Mark IV, which it doesn’t have with the two Sony and two other Canons I’ve processed within C1.
Having seen how Linear can fully exploit a file, I would rarely process in Auto now.
D.
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(...)
I also shoot Hasselblad and work mostly in Reproduction Mode, Phocus’ Linear equivalent. They recently introduced what they call Reproduction Mode Low Gain - an even flatter curve. I’ve often wondered how flat the C1 curve is in Linear, and could it be even flatter?
D.
Thanks for your and DP's write up. Capture One's Linear Response curve is not entirely flat I learned in the Phase One school ;-) (POCP). The Linear Scientific curve is, and you can find that curve in Capture One for their digital backs.
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Having seen how Linear can fully exploit a file, I would rarely process in Auto now.
P1 icc/icm camera profiles have curve name encoded to direct C1 to select an actual curve when "auto" is used in UI
Matlab example:
icc = iccread('z:\SonyA7RM2-P1IQ350MP-Flash - Flat Art Reproduction.icm')
icc.PrivateTags{3,1} = 'P1FC'
icc.PrivateTags{3,2} = uint8(['text' char(0) char(0) char (0) char(0) 'SonyA7RM2-Linear Scientific' char(0)])
a = iccwrite(icc,'SonyA7RM2-P1IQ350MP-Flash - Flat Art Reproduction 2.icm')
profile has 2 private tags already, hence adding #3 P1FC and the name of .fcrv file as text... if no private tags beforehand then for example:
icc.PrivateTags{1,1} = 'P1FC'
icc.PrivateTags{1,2} = uint8(['text' char(0) char(0) char (0) char(0) 'SonyA7RM2-Linear Response' char(0)])
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Thanks for your and DP's write up. Capture One's Linear Response curve is not entirely flat I learned in the Phase One school ;-) (POCP). The Linear Scientific curve is, and you can find that curve in Capture One for their digital backs.
Paul, thanks.
Well, it would be a bonus if they made that Linear Scientific available to the rest of us. But, maybe they’re feeling the heat from the likes of Sony? :)
D.
Ps. And anyone can download Phocus for free, though pretty useless without a Hassie.
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I prefer "linear" all the time for any subject + Camera profile created with dcamprof ( https://www.ludd.ltu.se/~torger/dcamprof.html ) /LrPD ( lumariver.com/lrpd-manual/ ) accounting for "transfer function" and the curve in UI
DP,
Thanks for the heads up on dcamprof. New to me.
D.
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Thanks for your and DP's write up. Capture One's Linear Response curve is not entirely flat I learned in the Phase One school ;-) (POCP). The Linear Scientific curve is, and you can find that curve in Capture One for their digital backs.
no, curve itself (data) is flat - but .fcrv files are more than just a curve - there is a flag (bit or byte, etc) instructing C1 to roll ... but the curve data is identical...0,0 & 1,1
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Thanks for the heads up on dcamprof. New to me.
what do you mean by that ? you are reading this forum for a while and dcamprof is a 2 years project mentioned here a lot of times since 2015
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could it be even flatter?
you need to (1) account for/compensate "transfer function" (2) make sure LUTs in camera profile don't do this (or use simple matrix profile) (3) use .fcrv curve file with 0,0 - 1,1 curve and (4) use or not flag in .fcrv curve file instructing C1 code to roll approaching clipping
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what do you mean by that ? you are reading this forum for a while and dcamprof is a 2 years project mentioned here a lot of times since 2015
I’m choosy about what I read. I also have a head like a sieve! 😎
D.
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I use the Linear Response Film Curve by default for all my image imports ( I use a catalog ) and then create two layers named " RGB " & " Luma " which I use for the respective curve adjustments.
When I started out with C1 I used the contrast slider but with more experience (read practice ) I rarely use it now preferring curves adjustments instead with some " fine tuning " from the color balance tool.
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I use the Linear Response Film Curve by default for all my image imports ( I use a catalog ) and then create two layers named " RGB " & " Luma " which I use for the respective curve adjustments.
When I started out with C1 I used the contrast slider but with more experience (read practice ) I rarely use it now preferring curves adjustments instead with some " fine tuning " from the color balance tool.
Ps.
Thanks for reminding me.
I should have written above that I never use RGB curve, only Luma.
D.
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I’m choosy about what I read. I also have a head like a sieve! 😎
D.
there is a sublink in manual ( https://www.ludd.ltu.se/~torger/dcamprof.html ) to tutorial = https://www.ludd.ltu.se/~torger/photography/camera-profiling.html
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Paul, thanks.
Well, it would be a bonus if they made that Linear Scientific available to the rest of us. But, maybe they’re feeling the heat from the likes of Sony? :)
D.
Ps. And anyone can download Phocus for free, though pretty useless without a Hassie.
Just copy it from another one and rename it to your cameras name. After a restart of C1 the "linear scientific" curve will be available for your camera as well.
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Just copy it from another one and rename it to your cameras name. After a restart of C1 the "linear scientific" curve will be available for your camera as well.
Hi Sebbe,
You're talking Dutch to me! :o
Copy what, exactly, from where to where?
If you can explain the procedure to me in baby steps, you're on my Christmas card list for life! 8)
Thanks!
D.
Ps. I'm Windows 10 x64, if that makes any difference.
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Thanks for your and DP's write up. Capture One's Linear Response curve is not entirely flat I learned in the Phase One school ;-) (POCP). The Linear Scientific curve is, and you can find that curve in Capture One for their digital backs.
Paul,
One further point....
I do think that the PhaseOne business model is similar to high fashion - selling MF backs (Haute Couture) to 1%ers in order to create a brand that allows you to sell C1 (e.g. perfume, cosmetics) to the masses.
In fashion, the perfume/cosmetics are their bread and butter, and they know it.
I have no idea but, at the moment, PhaseOne's cash-cow may well be MF backs, with C1 as a service product they have to provide in order to make the MF business viable.
But, if that is the case, I firmly believe it won't stay that way. DSLR and Mirrorless can only get better. If you NEED (very deliberate emphasis) 100MP then you need 100MP. Period.
But, very few of us do.
Now factor in in-camera multi-shot (e.g. Sony) at less than the price of a lens for a PhaseOne.....you can see where I'm going.
C1 is a superb product, but I think that PhaseOne's customer focus, so to speak, lies still with MF and not the software.
As I wrote to them recently, the most bog-standard of all RAW developers, ACR, has far and away the best CA/Lens correction tool. If only C1 were as good.
D.
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Copy what, exactly, from where to where?
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Sure, it's not that difficult.
Open your explorer (windows + e)
search "scientific" on your drive (C:\Program Files\Phase One\Capture One 11\Film Curves)
right click on one of these and choose "open path"
copy the "*-Linear Scientific.fcrv" file (ctrl + C)
paste it (ctrl + v) (you need administrativ rights for that)
rename the file to "SonyA7RM2-Linear Scientific.fcrv" (or whatever camera you choose)
restart Capture One.
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Sure, it's not that difficult.
Open your explorer (windows + e)
search "scientific" on your drive (C:\Program Files\Phase One\Capture One 11\Film Curves)
right click on one of these and choose "open path"
copy the "*-Linear Scientific.fcrv" file (ctrl + C)
paste it (ctrl + v) (you need administrativ rights for that)
rename the file to "SonyA7RM2-Linear Scientific.fcrv" (or whatever camera you choose)
restart Capture One.
Sebbe,
Thanks.
Still a bit confused...
1. I presume you mean right-click and choose Open With not Open Path?
2. If so, when I right-click on, say, "CanonEOS5DMk4-Linear Respose.frcv" and I select Open With, I am presented with..."How do you want to open this file? Look for an app in the App store."
Am I doing something wrong?
Finally, in that folder, there are plenty of Linear Scientific film curves, but they are all Leaf or PhaseOne. If I was to copy and rename one of these; CanonEOS5DMk4 Linear Scientific.frcv would that work? I presume not, just thought I'd ask.
Thanks!
D.
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As the linear scientific is 0,0 to 1,1 and nothing more all are identical for all cameras. Well at least that was what others said. No need to open it with some software, just rename it to the camera model you use.
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As the linear scientific is 0,0 to 1,1 and nothing more all are identical for all cameras. Well at least that was what others said. No need to open it with some software, just rename it to the camera model you use.
Sebbe,
Doesn't work for me.
If I rename, say, a Leaf Linear Scientific film curve to Canon5D and then reopen C1 and apply it, the file is green as grass.
So, as well as flattening the curve, there seems to be some camera -specific colour profiling going on also.
Unless I'm doing something wrong.
Thanks.
D.
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Sebbe,
Doesn't work for me.
If I rename, say, a Leaf Linear Scientific film curve to Canon5D and then reopen C1 and apply it, the file is green as grass.
So, as well as flattening the curve, there seems to be some camera -specific colour profiling going on also.
Unless I'm doing something wrong.
Thanks.
D.
hmmm... I just tried "LeafCredo40-Credo 40 Linear Scientific.fcrv" for my a7RII and it worked. Sorry if it does not work. C1Pro11?
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Sebbe,
I’m C1 10.
I just realised that I was applying it to a file that I had already made edits to, and that may have skewed the LS profile.
I will try it again with a file that is zeroed-out, and see how that goes.
But, I’ll do it tomorrow - it’s now vino time! 😎
Thanks!
D.
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I used the Linear Response for 7 years.
But due to problem of neutrality with C1 icc profie I associate since 4 years an own icc.
It is a "reproduction" icc camera profile done with two charts (CCSG and Munsel) to be sure to have a perfect neutral grey and linear . As I had a little problem with the foot of the curve I now use Lumariver Profile Designer instead of BasiCoor Input to build it. The Linear Response in C1 makes it possible to immediately judge the potential of the file. For the contrasts I have three basic "luma" curves: one for the portrait, one for the landscape and one for the shots in the street. I adapt them according to the lighting of the shooting and I adjust it also with levels. The color editor is only used for color.
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hmmm... I just tried "LeafCredo40-Credo 40 Linear Scientific.fcrv" for my a7RII and it worked. Sorry if it does not work. C1Pro11?
Sorted!
You’re right. It works.
The difference between Response and Scientific is very slight overall.
It also varies between files, as I would have expected. The degree of recovery can be more or less apparent at each end of the file.
Useful to have for comparison sake.
Thanks.
D.
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instead of BasiCoor Input to build it.
BasICColor can't fix simple bugs in Input for months (as in many month) and yet dare to charge money for the product... they simply don't do any QA before releasing paid product
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Paul,
One further point....
I do think that the PhaseOne business model is similar to high fashion - selling MF backs (Haute Couture) to 1%ers in order to create a brand that allows you to sell C1 (e.g. perfume, cosmetics) to the masses.
In fashion, the perfume/cosmetics are their bread and butter, and they know it.
...
C1 is a superb product, but I think that PhaseOne's customer focus, so to speak, lies still with MF and not the software.
As I wrote to them recently, the most bog-standard of all RAW developers, ACR, has far and away the best CA/Lens correction tool. If only C1 were as good.
D.
Dinarius,
Interesting comparison with high fashion and cosmetics. The strong interconnection between Phase One backs and Capture One and the fact that the software has also a goal to sell to the masses, are both true, IMHO.
There are obviously some algorithms in Capture One to improve and I can see it is a work in progress, when looking a few years back. It is always fun to watch what has been updated in the next upgrade. ;)