Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Doug Peterson on November 30, 2017, 05:27:13 am
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Learn About it:
Capture One 11 New Features (https://digitaltransitions.com/capture-one-11-layers-annotations-scripting-speed-potpourri/)
Master It:
Capture One Training (https://digitaltransitions.com/capture-one-training/)
Buy it:
Buy Capture One 11 (https://digitaltransitions.com/product-category/capture-one/)
Script it:
Capture One AppleScript Tutorial Set (https://digitaltransitions.com/product/dt-building-blocks-applescripts/)
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Probably better than the new Lightroom :P
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Hey Doug... licensing question. My C1 10 license isn't valid for 11. In the webshop, they now have subscriptions available or a One time perpetual license. Does that mean perpetual until 12? Just want to clarify that since my C1 10 license doesn't appear to be 'perpetual'.
Psyched about this release, tho...
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Probably better than the new Lightroom :P
Key word is Probably....
Now you could run some tests and define how they were produced so you'd have some actual data to share. :o
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Hey Doug... licensing question. My C1 10 license isn't valid for 11. In the webshop, they now have subscriptions available or a One time perpetual license. Does that mean perpetual until 12? Just want to clarify that since my C1 10 license doesn't appear to be 'perpetual'.
Psyched about this release, tho...
"Perpetual" means the version you purchased will always work, without additional monthly or annual payments. You own that version (as opposed to "subscribing to" aka renting it). When smaller updates such as 10.1 or 10.2 are released those who own version 10 get those at no additional cost. Every year or so there is a major update like this one (10 --> 11). Since you own v10, you do not get v11 for free, but you do get a significant discount from the retail price if you want to upgrade your v10 license to a v11 license. You can also choose not to upgrade if the new features are not relevant to your workflow, which makes a strong incentive for Phase One to communicate with i's dealers and users to find needs for which they can create features that will provide such incentive. I think in this case the new tools in Layers and the new Annotations system have broad and deep appeal respectively.
"Subscription" means you pay every month, but are entitled to whatever version you'd like (whether past, present, or future). Regardless of how long you subscribe, if your subscription expires and you do not continue to pay for it you will no longer be able to use the software.
Adobe has pushed very hard on the "subscription" model, and so Phase One offers it as well. Our (DT) recommendation is, when in doubt, own your software.
I definitely understand where the word "perpetual" might have tripped you up. It's a fairly common industry term, and I agree it's reasonable to misunderstand it's meaning in this context. But to my knowledge no major software company offers a "buy once, all updates and upgrades for free forever" on any paid software product.
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Key word is Probably....
Now you could run some tests and define how they were produced so you'd have some actual data to share. :o
And fortunately there is a free trial, as always, which allows you to do so! :)
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Adobe has bushed very hard on the "subscription" model, and so Phase One offers it as well. Our (DT) recommendation is, when in doubt, own your software.
Define own your software (and your EULA). If I purchased C1 11 I own it or I own a license to use it?
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Regardless of how long you subscribe, if your subscription expires and you do not continue to pay for it you will no longer be able to use the software.
You will no longer be able to use C1 at all, unlike Lightroom?
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Define own your software (and your EULA). If I purchased C1 11 I own it or I own a license to use it?
Sounds like a semantics argument to me.
Based on the definition that would matter to every client I work with, you own it. You can use it at no additional cost, forever, in any way that a normal photographer/retoucher/artist would ever want to use it.
I'm married to an IP lawyer. Whether the word "own" legally applies to the specific license granted in page 13 paragraph 3 subsection 2... I honestly do not care; that's for lawyers to worry about.
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You will no longer be able to use C1 at all.
Correct. Assuming you haven't used up the trial you'd have a 30 day trial period left you could use that (for free) while you decided what to do.
We don't have a lot of clients who do the subscription so I honestly don't know what the failure grace period is (e.g. you don't pay up on the 30th of the month, I don't think it turns off on the 1st of the month)
The idea of a professional tool turning itself off because you forgot to pay, or because a card was declined, or whatever, is definitely not a pleasant thought for me. Like I said: DT recommends owning your software (whether C1 or any other professional software tool).
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Sounds like a semantics argument to me.
Not to those of us trying to avoid marketing speak ;D
I'm married to an IP lawyer.
Why not ask her if you own the software or after viewing your EULA, or you have a license to use it. There is a difference.
The idea of a professional tool turning itself off because you forgot to pay, or because a card was declined, or whatever, is definitely not a pleasant thought for me.
We are in violent agreement so don't do so. As perhaps you know, when you stop paying for LR subscription, all modules EXCEPT Develop and Maps continue to operate. You don't own them. You can still use them. There is a difference.
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As much as I use the software, I’m more than happy to pay for every version upgrade. It’s one of my least expensive tools. I don’t see, though, an upgrade option from 10.
CB
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Not to those of us trying to avoid marketing speak ;D Why not ask her if you own the software or after viewing your EULA, or you have a license to use it. There is a difference. We are in violent agreement so don't do so. As perhaps you know, when you stop paying for LR subscription, all modules EXCEPT Develop and Maps continue to operate. You don't own them. You can still use them. There is a difference.
Not being a legal expert, I would guess that real, unconditional ownership is restricted to unlicensed software - I suppose you could say that you own that (or at least that version).
I think for the most part what we're discussing here is buying the use of the license in one go vs doing it in payments on a more automatic schedule. For what it's worth, once you extrapolate out past 3-4 years and onward, it is actually less expensive to purchase Capture One usage per major version, rather than follow a monthly subscription plan.
Subscriptions are $15 per month, that's $180 per year, $900 over 5 years. Purchase Capture One Pro today at $299, upgrade 3 times @ $119 each (I believe the upgrade price has risen to this with v11), and you are at $656 at the end of 5 years.
The primary benefit of the subscription plan is just that - that it allows you to purchase on a month to month, smaller chunk basis.
Steve Hendrix/CI
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Not being a legal expert, I would guess that real, unconditional ownership is restricted to unlicensed software - I suppose you could say that you own that (or at least that version).
So there's nothing in your EULA that allows you to discontinue a product for use by the so called owner, for say, breaking your EULA?
The discussion has been, in part, about owning software. Not the permission to use it under the EULA.
Edit: C1 EULA I just found:
7. Termination. [/font]
Phase One may terminate this License upon written notice to you due to (i) an intellectual property infringement claim relating to the Software in the event that Phase One is unable to remedy the infringement by working around such infringement or by obtaining the required license rights; or (ii) your breach of this License. [/font]
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So there's nothing in your EULA that allows you to discontinue a product for use by the so called owner, for say, breaking your EULA?
The discussion has been, in part, about owning software. Not the permission to use it under the EULA.
Edit: C1 EULA I just found:
7. Termination. [/font]
Phase One may terminate this License upon written notice to you due to (i) an intellectual property infringement claim relating to the Software in the event that Phase One is unable to remedy the infringement by working around such infringement or by obtaining the required license rights; or (ii) your breach of this License. [/font]
My comment is concerning the use of unlicensed software.
I don't see how one can say they own licensed software.
Steve Hendrix/CI
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I don't see how one can say they own licensed software.
that probably depends on the country where you reside - in some P1s EULA from above will not stand, in some you are even legally allowed to modify the code at will yourself to make sure that whatever you paid for works for example on a new version of OS & hardware
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Gotta tell you friends, EULA discussions... I didn't become a lawyer for a reason.
I've watch my wife fight over the wording "confidential" vs "extremely confidential" in a legal context. Ick.
I've never heard of a single C1 user "revoked" for any reason, and I've been doing this for 10 years. Maybe if you put up three virtual machines as servers and told the internet they could use your C1 installs remotely for free they might cancel your license. Even then my guess is they'd warn you a couple times that it's not okay to do that, and even then refund your payment when revoking your license. But now you're talking about how many angels dance on the head of a pin.
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Gotta tell you friends, EULA discussions... I didn't become a lawyer for a reason.
That's cool, neither did I. I just became a partner in a software company and had to learn the facts behind software licensing. Which is why, with our product (and other's), I'd be hard pressed to state:
Our (DT) recommendation is, when in doubt, own your software.
;)
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This update feels a bit thin doesn’t it?
Performance and local retouching were already good enough in my book.
Not sure I’ll update this time around.
Cheers,
Bernard
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This update feels a bit thin doesn’t it?
LR 7 Classic?
Sorry, I really did feel that way about the last release of LR and just wanted some here to know I'm not the Adobe fanboy some might suspect, did download the last version of C1 (but still sticking with my first choice, always looking for a better exit strategy).
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This update feels a bit thin doesn’t it?
Performance and local retouching were already good enough in my book.
Not sure I’ll update this time around.
You might read our Captue One 11 blog article (https://digitaltransitions.com/capture-one-11-layers-annotations-scripting-speed-potpourri/) which notes that the "Rolling Update" development model is much better for users, and means that once you buy Capture One X that you get meaningful new features and improvements in X.1 and X.2 (and X.3 if applicable) as part of that purchase. But that also means the difference between 10.2 and 11.0 is narrower than in days past where the last version of 7.3 to 8.0 was a huge upgrade (mostly because 7.0 to 7.3 included only minor updates/features).
So by all means, if the value for your workflow isn't worth the upgrade then hold off. Maybe 11.1 or 11.2 will change your mind; and if not, that's okay too – that's one advantage of
For some users the improvements to scripting and the tools it enables (https://digitaltransitions.com/capture-one-11-layers-annotations-scripting-speed-potpourri/) alone will be worth 100x the cost. For others all the improvements combined wouldn't be worth $10. Every one has to evaluate the equation themselves.
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Of course I just bought C1 v10 for the full price about a month ago. Knew this would happen!
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I really hoped they would finally bring a decent version of „dehaze“, perhaps next year...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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But now you're talking about how many angels dance on the head of a pin.
Now I can help you there:
The maximal number of angels -- 8.6766*10exp49 at the critical angel mass (3.8807*10exp-34 kg).
BUT
(1) the angels must dance with speeds near the velocity of light in order to obey quantum mechanics;
(2) a full relativistic treatment is necessary; and
(3) that the precision of the dance must break down due to quantum effects.
Quantum Gravity Treatment of the Angel Density Problem
by Anders Sandberg
SANS/NADA, Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden
https://www.improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume7/v7i3/angels-7-3.htm
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Of course I just bought C1 v10 for the full price about a month ago. Knew this would happen!
There is a 30 day grace period. So if it was on the shy side of “about a month ago” you’d get the new version for free.
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Wait a minute. There is reference to a “Dr Phil Schewe” in that link. Could it be...?
;)
Now I can help you there:
The maximal number of angels -- 8.6766*10exp49 at the critical angel mass (3.8807*10exp-34 kg).
BUT
(1) the angels must dance with speeds near the velocity of light in order to obey quantum mechanics;
(2) a full relativistic treatment is necessary; and
(3) that the precision of the dance must break down due to quantum effects.
Quantum Gravity Treatment of the Angel Density Problem
by Anders Sandberg
SANS/NADA, Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden
https://www.improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume7/v7i3/angels-7-3.htm
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Wait a minute. There is reference to a “Dr Phil Schewe” in that link. Could it be...?
;)
“We’re not worthy”
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There is a 30 day grace period. So if it was on the shy side of “about a month ago” you’d get the new version for free.
I just checked my invoice and a adly it was “a bit more than a month ago”. Oh well. I’m still getting used to C1 and don’t mind the way layers are now so perhaps I’ll hold off on the upgrade until v12.
Is C1 like Camera Raw in that you have to be on a current version to get support for new cameras? Or will new camera support be rolled out to v10 as well for a time?
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As much as I use the software, I’m more than happy to pay for every version upgrade. It’s one of my least expensive tools. I don’t see, though, an upgrade option from 10.
CB
I agree except, every time you buy a new version of a camera, you usually have to buy the next version of the software. To me that's kind of crazy.
I wish the people we bought from would think more like we think about our clients.
Imagine me sending a finished still or video to a client, they buy a new computer and can't view it, or I tell them they have to change operating systems and computers? We all know what the results would be.
And Doug, do us a favor. Put the system requirements up front so we know if we have to change operating systems, and/or computers.
I use 10.10.5 for a lot of reasons and your last 2 softwares require 11. No big deal other than it knocks out about 5 programs, 15 plug ins I use, some I can rebuy, some are legacy and can't.
So the option is run a secondary startup system, which means 1 grand for an external SSD and then I'm not sure if your software will install on the external drive even if it's upgraded to Sierra. It's not just the money, it's the hassle and time.
I would much rather see a charged upgrade on a software that allows me to use a new camera and not go through changing everything, including learning curve, or like irident raw developer that adds cameras and updates at no charge and will work all the way back to snow leopard.
IMO
BC
P.S. And I hear all the time that the subscription model is because people lift the software in a not legal manner. You know I and most I know would never steal software, but I've seen dozens of assistants that can find and get software suites for free faster than I can buy it legally.
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I agree except, every time you buy a new version of a camera, you usually have to buy the next version of the software. To me that's kind of crazy.
Blame the camera manufacturer. NO 3rd party raw converter manufacture is responsible nor desires this continuing effort to have to hack a new and unnecessary proprietary raw to support it. It's a waste of their time and money and you get to wait. Who produced your new camera? Blame them. Note that the JPEG works just fine but not that new raw. Now you know who's fault that is. 8)