Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: David Sutton on May 28, 2017, 09:21:30 pm
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I haven't tried it myself, but OTOH I doubt it would have the same side effects:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/08/010828075659.htm
I haven't used DEET either, but I was just told of one shorts-wearing tramper here in NZ who did. It repelled the sandflies but also glued him to the plastic toilet seat.
David
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Avon (the cosmetics company), do a moisteriser called 'Skin so Soft' - brilliant at keeping insects away, with none of the unpleasant effects you get from DEET. Good enough for 3 Commando Brigade to use during jungle deployments in Belize & Brunei, and trust me, if you want insects, they're the sort of places you want to go :-)
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I just wonder how they can still grip their weapons after mopping down with SSS. ;D
Lloyd
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Avon (the cosmetics company), do a moisteriser called 'Skin so Soft' - brilliant at keeping insects away...
IMO this is an enduring urban myth. I bought some and it was completely useless - at least for keeping Canadian mosquitoes at bay. You are far more likely to repel humans than mosquitoes with the oh-so-sickly-sweet stink. ))
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http://www.snopes.com/oldwives/skeeters.asp
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Since we are mentioning DEET, it is also worth mentioning its ability to chemically dissolve lettering on cameras and accessories just by handling them with hands treated with it.
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Since we are mentioning DEET, it is also worth mentioning its ability to chemically dissolve lettering on cameras and accessories just by handling them with hands treated with it.
Ah! I wonder: Does that mean the far-east camera manufacturers have most of their assembly work done by trained mosquitoes?
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That must be how they keep the _____-rumours websites buzzing.
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Can you imagine run into a pack of street cats all soaked in catnip? This surely would create some comedy.
& some good images for the 'Pets' thread.
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I live in North Carolina, USA. Summers are generally hot and humid and that's when I escape to the mountains when I can. Anyway, mosquitos aren't the only vermin from the insect world that annoy humans. We've got ticks, no-seeums, and lots of other insects that bite as well. I have used "Skin So Soft" to keep no-seeums at bay and it worked for me. That said, the other biting insects kind of treated it like an appetizer. When I'm at the coast even DEET isn't guaranteed to stop every insect. Netting works fairly well as long as you can keep it away from your skin. The worst for me are the "horse" flies that are large and I think even have the ability to punch your Red Cross blood donor card. I found these especially bad in Canada.
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Other alternatives include picaridin (on skin), plant essential oils (eg citronella, eucalyptus, even grapefruit extract)(on skin), and permethrin (commercial: Insect Shield) treated clothing. I use treated long sleeved shirt, pants, socks, sun hat despite the humid weather, plus a chapstick-style solid DEET for ears and neck. I am more concerned about developing tick and mosquito-related diseases, including a recently identified viral tick-borne illness ("Heartland Virus", named for the Missouri hospital where it was first identified) for which there is no specific treatment. I have seen dead ticks on my treated socks, so I know permethrin works. It is also good for use on tents. Permethrin can be used on nylon and wool, at least. The Insect Shield company will treat your clothing and get it back to you in a week - supposedly the company-applied treatment lasts through 70 washings. The Sawyer spray kit is said to last for 6 washings.
The permethrin works well on all tick and mite species, so it handles chiggers too. Chiggers don't carry disease, but boy do they make you miserable!
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I know the mosquitoes are about to explode here so this is a timely topic. I've tried many "natural" repellants over the years and nothing works as well (or at all) as DEET for me. The bugs love me and I have to say I'm skeptical about catnip.
We get a relatively short season here but I think they try to make up for that with intensity. With all the flood irrigation that happens for alfalfa in the nearby ranches it almost seems like they could drain you of all your blood pretty quickly if you let them.
My best defense has been physical barriers like a head net over a hat to keep the net off my skin, long sleeves of a nylon fabric like a light jacket (which gets way too hot) and I even got some anti-insect gloves from Amazon that seem to help but are not 100% effective. The gloves will reduce the number of bites on my hands to single digits, down for 20-30 per hand for a half hour outing.
Ticks seems to like me too and DEET on my lower legs when mountain biking in sage country helps reduce the number I find on myself (I'd get a dozen without, maybe one or two with it). It's too strenuous to cover up like I do for photography or I'd overheat immediately.
This pic shows about 10 seconds worth of mosquitoes accumulating on my pant leg and also my head net. This is serious!
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I think I'd prefer not use anything on my skin called N,N-Diethyl-meta-toluamide that melts plastic. Unless the alternative were insect borne disease.
Over here it's mainly sandflies. Tucking trousers into socks and a head net works well, but for river crossings we use a product called Goodbye Sandfly. It contains essential oils of Eucalyptus, Lavender, Pine, Manuka, Tea Tree and Lemongrass in a base of Sweet Almond Oil.
Works 100% but not necessarily for a long time, depending on the viciousness of the insects.
And I've never managed to get my boots and socks off, trousers rolled up and the stuff applied fast enough to avoid multiple bites.
David
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I think I'd prefer not use anything on my skin called N,N-Diethyl-meta-toluamide that melts plastic. Unless the alternative were insect borne disease.
Over here it's mainly sandflies. Tucking trousers into socks and a head net works well, but for river crossings we use a product called Goodbye Sandfly. It contains essential oils of Eucalyptus, Lavender, Pine, Manuka, Tea Tree and Lemongrass in a base of Sweet Almond Oil.
Works 100% but not necessarily for a long time, depending on the viciousness of the insects.
And I've never managed to get my boots and socks off, trousers rolled up and the stuff applied fast enough to avoid multiple bites.
David
Hi David,
Understand the reluctance for a man made chemical, but take a look at the IUPAC names of the chemicals in the essential oils, particularly the ones producing the aroma. No less complex. And some will break down plastics or cause other issues for the body if at high enough concentration. As long as any of these products are tested on a large enough population, long enough, and at high enough concentration we can understand the risks versus the benefits. The "natural" chemicals have certainly been user tested over the years and appear safe enough, but unless the testing is rigorous instead of anecdotal, we only have a hint about the risk/benefit. No chemical we use is without risk. Water is probably high up in the list of chemicals that cause severe injury or death due to exposure among humans.
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OK, maybe I fall into the "knows more than is good for me" category, being a physician, but I take those insect-borne illnesses seriously. Sure, many of the local tick-borne bacterial diseases are treatable by a well-tolerated antibiotic (doxycycline) if caught early - but there is a viral tick-borne disease in my area, Heartland bunyavirus, plus some mosquito-borne viral encephalitides (West Nile being the most prominent locally, but there are others), and the viral diseases don't have specific treatments. So I do think it worthwhile to take some reasonable precautions to prevent tick bites and reduce mosquito bites. The long-sleeved shirts and pants also deal with the sun exposure issue (I am highly prone to burn).
One local disease I don't worry about is paragonimiasis. This is a parasite that infects fresh-water crayfish and lodges in the lung of humans. Missourians affected are all drunken young men eating raw crawdads on a dare (redneck sushi). Really! I haven't heard of a local case in a woman. ;) BTW, fresh water crayfish are fine to eat if fully cooked. Parasite's life cycle here: https://www.cdc.gov/parasites/paragonimus/biology.html
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(This is a strange thread for this category.)
"The problem, however, is that this bioactive compound found in the essential oil of the catnip breaks down fast and the product then appears old or stale ..." (http://news.rutgers.edu/research-news/super-catnip-repels-mosquitos-and-drives-cats-wild/20150920#.WS7ZsmjyskE).
I spend time in the California High Sierras every summer, including the annual Golden Trout Natural History Workshop. Mosquitoes are a problem. I have not tried catnip, but so far in our informal testing and attempts to find an effective alternative to deet, nothing has worked well enough for me to bother with. Deet is the only one I rely on, and it's amazingly effective.
FWIW
Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
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Mosquitoes kill more people than any other (non-human) animal on earth. The diseases they and ticks carry are a real threat here so I have to choose my poison, so to speak. In recent years we have seen West Nile and Dengue fever nearby and we are far from the tropics.
I hate slathering myself in DEET and try to use viable alternatives when I can but besides not leaving the house I only have physical barriers or DEET for the time being.
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There's new tick virus out there that is particularly dangerous, Powassan. 15% of the people that contact it do not survive. Here's the CNN article. Lather up with whatever works!
http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/03/health/powassan-tick-virus/
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I use multiple things.
DEET works ok and it has been tested for quite some time now. It's not that friendly for some fabrics as said above and when I went to Belize it didn't touch what I think were no-see-ums, terrible pruritus after. I've never had them in Florida though.
Picardin has been out for quite some time now also albeit less than DEET. Popular in Europe, it's friendly to most materials. It's my preferred when I might need to cover a large amount and can't avoid the clothing.
There is also another one, name is quite complex but the abbreviation is IR3535. It's not long acting but it's different and I think it's more effective for no-see-ums. They are common in combination with UV30 sun protection but as I've found out some of the brands stain clothing like nothing.
Permethrin is great for clothing but it's not practical to apply it on all so I save it for dedicated mosquitoes clothing.
Head nets work well but you need either a hat or a cap with back protection because once it touches the skin they are useless.
A windshirt/windpants work well as they are quite dense and difficult to bite through yet more breathable than thicker clothing.
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Avon (the cosmetics company), do a moisteriser called 'Skin so Soft' - brilliant at keeping insects away, with none of the unpleasant effects you get from DEET. Good enough for 3 Commando Brigade to use during jungle deployments in Belize & Brunei, and trust me, if you want insects, they're the sort of places you want to go :-)
That's exactly what I use for the Georgia swamps and all of the low country travel. I spray my body and my clothing.
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Thanks for heads-up on Powhassan virus.
For Permethrin clothing, I find it works best to have designated pants, shirts, socks sent off to the Insect Shield facility for their soak treatment which supposedly lasts 70 washings (cold or warm, not hot water wash temp). If you aren't sure whether your clothing would be compatible with treatment, note the cloth content on its label (eg, 100% nylon) and ask them. My 100% nylon fishing shirts and pants are fine, as are wool and most "wicking" synthetics socks. It helps to either have them sew an "Insect Shield" label on woven goods, or just remember which items were sent for treatment in what year. They imprint the socks with some label which I expect will wear off relatively soon, but I sent unique-color socks so I ought to be able to keep track. I think that I will likely renew the treatment every third year - I expect that the "herald" of declining effectiveness would be to get a few chigger bites, which would mean that one of the sub-millimeter chigger larvae managed to crawl through socks. The treatment costs $10.00 per item (pair socks, shirt, pants are each one item), with discounts of $1.00 to $2.00 per item for bulk orders of at least 10 items treated. This is definitely cheaper than the Sawyer DIY sprays that I used - now I use Sawyer DIY permethrin spray only for tents/hammock/hat.
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When it is unbearable I'll use a couple of drops of DEET. Best is to have a mosquito suit. Here is a short video during the height of mosquito season 2015. As Ranger Dave explains - we can survive!
https://vimeo.com/220080994
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Babesia and Leishmaniasis are not viruses, but they are other tick-borne diseases (protozoa much worse than Lyme disease) and on a par with the Powhassan virus, for nature photographers to worry about.
The former is dangerous, but manageable, while the latter can also be fatal (in fact, Bill Gates is devoting millions to find the cure for Leishmaniasis.)
While Leishmaniasis is thought to be a Mediterranean disease, the fact is it has been in the US for over 2 decades, and the Sand Fly is in fact its #1 vector. (It is 100% fatal to dogs also.)
If you're worried about DEET, you can buy pure Neem Oil and dilute it for organic application. Look for authentic outlets for pure, 100% Neem Oil. As for how to use, Mix 15 ml of Neem Oil with the 16 oz of water. Add 3 ml of Ivory Liquid as an emulsifier and shake well. (If you're using a 32-oz bottle, then add 30 ml of Neem Oil and 5 ml of Ivory Liquid). Shake well to distribute evenly. Apply to all exposed areas of skin.
For those who poo-poo natural derivatives, consider these facts:
- FACT: The most common drug used to repel fleas, flies, mosquitoes, ticks, etc. on pets and livestock (in the United States) is pyrethrin, which is derived from the Chrysanthemum plant
- FACT: The oil derived from the Neem Tree in India contains even stronger insect-repelling properties than the Chrysanthemum plant.
- FACT: Over 60% of all the outstanding drugs, medicines, and other pharmaceuticals that have proven time and again to be effective are NOT permitted in the United States (e.g., such as Berenil). Robert Higgs, who has made it his life's work to invesigate the FDA, concludes that (because it can cost millions to get drugs "approved" by the FDA, as they want their cut) millions of Americans are universally deprived of excellent, proven medicines used effectively in many other places of the world.
Take ticks and blood-borne parasitism seriously. If you don't like using chemical repellents, Neem Oil is perhaps the best organic alternative available.
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All of those are "chemical" repellents or pesticides no matter the source.
And yes, many useful chemicals have and continue to be extracted from plants and other sources in the world for use as medicines, pesticides, anti-fungals, etc. Using natural selection to pre-screen molecules is a useful tool.
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https://www.peoplespharmacy.com/2016/06/06/will-vitamin-b1-scare-mosquitoes-away/
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Not a fan of DEET because of potential damage to equipment. Repellents with Picaradin seems to work well for me.
ken
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Avon (the cosmetics company), do a moisteriser called 'Skin so Soft' - brilliant at keeping insects away, with none of the unpleasant effects you get from DEET. Good enough for 3 Commando Brigade to use during jungle deployments in Belize & Brunei, and trust me, if you want insects, they're the sort of places you want to go :-)
Here is some reference material from the CDC (https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/yellowbook/2016/the-pre-travel-consultation/protection-against-mosquitoes-ticks-other-arthropods), outlining accepted mosquito/tick-preventative formulas, which indicates Skin-So-Soft formulations are in fact effective:
DEET (U.S.) and Picaridin (non-U.S.) are considered as being the primary “conventional repellents,” the latter of which is the active ingredient in the product “Skin So Soft Bug Guard Plus (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Avon-Skin-So-Soft-Bug-Guard-Plus-Picaridin-Insect-Repellent-Spray-4oz-/282489205998?_trksid=p2385738.m2548.l4275").”
For those who don't want to use harsh chemicals, Skin So Soft Bug Guard Plus has an “Expedition Formula (https://www.avon.com/product/skin-so-soft-bug-guard-plus-ir3535-expedition-spf-30-bonus-size-pump-spray-47861),” which contains an alternative, “biopesticide,” IR3535 (naturally-derived), for those who don't want either DEET or Picaridin on their skin.
Think I will order both online, and give each a try, to see which I prefer.