Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: jazzy on April 27, 2017, 11:19:11 am
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I love optical viewfinder. You have direct, unfiltered connection with the scene. However optical viewfinder cameras are:
- big, heavy
- noisier
- more expensive to make
I intensely disliked EVFs when they first came out, but with the improvement in later generations, I can see optical viewfinders obsolete in 5-10 years.
Pondering about the future of high end professional cameras (I'm taking about integrated system cameras, not studio view cameras), while I think large MF sensors will still have a space, mechanical components like mirror box or focal plane shutters won't. Just like the end of manual focus lenses at the advent of autofocus.
Your thoughts?
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I love optical viewfinder. You have direct, unfiltered connection with the scene. However optical viewfinder cameras are:
- big, heavy
- noisier
- more expensive to make
I intensely disliked EVFs when they first came out, but with the improvement in later generations, I can see optical viewfinders obsolete in 5-10 years.
Pondering about the future of high end professional cameras (I'm taking about integrated system cameras, not studio view cameras), while I think large MF sensors will still have a space, mechanical components like mirror box or focal plane shutters won't. Just like the end of manual focus lenses at the advent of autofocus.
Your thoughts?
I have no special love for the OVF, too often too dim when the light is right for photo work. As for unfiltered, etc., the mirrors and prisms filter too much for my taste.
I life EVFs, especially if they would get a little better. And magnifying for focus I could no longer live without. As for the end of manual-focus lenses, I have about no auto-focus lenses and don't use them, so no doubt that I am obsolete, but happy.
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Interesting perspective. For me, I'm very specific with colours for my photos, and EVFs have their own profiles so they definitely present a more filtered version of the scene at the point of capture. Not a big problem though (and could be improved with custom profiles etc)
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Interesting perspective. For me, I'm very specific with colours for my photos, and EVFs have their own profiles so they definitely present a more filtered version of the scene at the point of capture. Not a big problem though (and could be improved with custom profiles etc)
Well, I have eye to see the color, take the photo, worry about color in post. I use the EVF for focus, not color.
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Well, I have eye to see the color, take the photo, worry about color in post. I use the EVF for focus, not color.
Yes!
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Interesting perspective. For me, I'm very specific with colours for my photos, and EVFs have their own profiles so they definitely present a more filtered version of the scene at the point of capture. Not a big problem though (and could be improved with custom profiles etc)
I'm not sure that it's valuable to be able to see the colors in the scene directly, since the camera will see the colors differently from you. More important to me is more accurate focusing (let's hear it for magnified peaking), live histograms, handheld EFCS and the like.
Jim
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EVFs will only get better. I am sure that the first optical viewfinders had their warts too, but they also got better.
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For me too focusing accuracy is the EVF "killer app." Don't use histogram displays much but I do like zebras. It still bugs me, though, that an EVF camera in aperture priority mode with zebras telling me my photo will likely contain significant areas of overexposure still won't auto-adjust the shutter or ISO to get rid of it. Why is the left-hand display system not talking to the right-hand exposure system?!
-Dave-
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Hi,
My take is that the intention of SLR and EVF are both to offer "What You See is What You Get" viewing.
- SLRs can do it, pretty well.
- EVF can do it, even better.
I have little doubt that EVF is the better solution in the long run. But, SLRs have been with us for say 80-100 years. EVFs are good enough for many applications, after just a few years…
I am pretty sure that EVF will get a lot better in the coming years and I have no doubts that EVF will prevail in the long run. But, it may take some time…
Best regards
Erik
I love optical viewfinder. You have direct, unfiltered connection with the scene. However optical viewfinder cameras are:
- big, heavy
- noisier
- more expensive to make
I intensely disliked EVFs when they first came out, but with the improvement in later generations, I can see optical viewfinders obsolete in 5-10 years.
Pondering about the future of high end professional cameras (I'm taking about integrated system cameras, not studio view cameras), while I think large MF sensors will still have a space, mechanical components like mirror box or focal plane shutters won't. Just like the end of manual focus lenses at the advent of autofocus.
Your thoughts?
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Interesting perspective. For me, I'm very specific with colours for my photos, and EVFs have their own profiles so they definitely present a more filtered version of the scene at the point of capture. Not a big problem though (and could be improved with custom profiles etc)
I find some optical finders have a warm cast, some have a cool cast - mostly dependant on the technology in the screen making them brighter and/or contrasty. And what you see is definitely not what you get. Personally, I'm less interested in the actual live colour than the intended image colour - except for reproduction work.
At least EVF's are somewhat tunable - although not very well. Magnified live view is the big advantage, in the situations that it can be used.
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EVFs will only get better. I am sure that the first optical viewfinders had their warts too, but they also got better.
They got better then they got worse. The best OVF I used was with my Olympus film cameras. DSLR viewfinders took a huge step backwards as far as I'm concerned.
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For me too focusing accuracy is the EVF "killer app." Don't use histogram displays much but I do like zebras. It still bugs me, though, that an EVF camera in aperture priority mode with zebras telling me my photo will likely contain significant areas of overexposure still won't auto-adjust the shutter or ISO to get rid of it. Why is the left-hand display system not talking to the right-hand exposure system?!
-Dave-
I'd rather be in charge of exposure. What if automatically adjusting the overexposed areas leaves the shadow areas totally without any detail and the most important part of my scene is the shadows.
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I think OVFs will have their place. They have their advantages. Phase One/Hasselblad's latest cameras have great OVFs...
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I'd rather be in charge of exposure. What if automatically adjusting the overexposed areas leaves the shadow areas totally without any detail and the most important part of my scene is the shadows.
The scene should be evaluated by your eyes before raising the camera. Therefore exposure should be obvious? The OVF is for framing the scene and not evaluating it?
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I'd rather be in charge of exposure. What if automatically adjusting the overexposed areas leaves the shadow areas totally without any detail and the most important part of my scene is the shadows.
That's what manual override (exposure compensation) and manual mode are for. Given that a camera doesn't know what you want with any particular exposure, in its auto modes it should provide a default exposure in keeping with the pluses & minuses of its recording medium. With sensors that means not frying the highlights. Then it's up to you to adjust the exposure to taste. IMO anyway.
-Dave-
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Hi,
Just some thoughts…
- With the arrival of AF, the OVFs are not any longer made for focusing more like for nice viewing.
- Also with arrival of AF, focusing throw on lenses is no longer easy to use for manual focus.
- A major disadvantage on EVF is viewfinder lag. You see an mage that is several ms old. That may make it difficult to follow moving objects.
- Shutter lag will increase with EVF, unless electronic first shutter curtain can be used
- Viwfinder blackout can be a problem
- New technology, like the stacked sensor in the A6500 and A9 may improve on EVF.
- A potential advantage of EVF-s are live histograms and zebras. On the A7rII I find those far to conservative. I want Zebras but I want them done right, indicating real world clipping. They are now useless for indicating clipping but they are a great distraction.
- Raw Histograms, Please!
- Working outdoors an eyecup shielding external light is useful. I adjust the viewfinder for my vision and use the viewfinder without glasses. An eyecup is essential to keep external light out.
- EVF works very well in dark places
For me, the killer application with EVF is magnified live view. On the Sonys I am shooting OVF based Sonys did not have live view and cameras having live view did not have OVF. So I was forced a bit into liking EVF.
Best regards
Erik
I love optical viewfinder. You have direct, unfiltered connection with the scene. However optical viewfinder cameras are:
- big, heavy
- noisier
- more expensive to make
I intensely disliked EVFs when they first came out, but with the improvement in later generations, I can see optical viewfinders obsolete in 5-10 years.
Pondering about the future of high end professional cameras (I'm taking about integrated system cameras, not studio view cameras), while I think large MF sensors will still have a space, mechanical components like mirror box or focal plane shutters won't. Just like the end of manual focus lenses at the advent of autofocus.
Your thoughts?
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They got better then they got worse. The best OVF I used was with my Olympus film cameras. DSLR viewfinders took a huge step backwards as far as I'm concerned.
I agree. The OVFs on my film cameras seemed a lot brighter and, of course, had really good focusing aids. That is probably my biggest grip about OVFs today, they make manually focusing more difficult and slower. Especially for those of us with old eyes.
There are times, rare they may be, where AF either does not work, or does not give me the artistic look I am seeking.
Crap, I just want it all. I want autofocusing AND the ability to use manual focusing visual aids...But that would be an EVF wouldn't it? ;D
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Crap, I just want it all. I want autofocusing AND the ability to use manual focusing visual aids...But that would be an EVF wouldn't it? ;D...
it would be nice if they (nikon/canon) could come up with a modular prism again like in the nikon F3.
that you can choose for EVF head or OVF head...
And then the best possible EVF without a translucent mirror and without AF.