Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Rdmax on March 30, 2017, 09:31:07 pm
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See subject
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Really big prints with incredible detail.
http://www.friedmanphoto.com (http://www.friedmanphoto.com)
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You don't need medium format. Just like you don't need 135 format, or APS-C format, or M4/3, or 4x5, or 8x10.
We all use what we want.
Dave
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Because the images I sell to clients regularly use 15 - 20mm of sensor shift in order to make the view and perspective I am after. I have full spherical panoramic ability with all my equipment but it's not the same. And since I haven't found anything to deliver the same result, I fortunately or unfortunately have to a use a mf sensor on a Paleolithic box called a techcam.
;)
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Because I see a pronounced difference with 35mm on my urban landscapes. And I like the difference. Others may not see it, and they are free not to use medium format.
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There may be a need to distinguish ownership from usage? ;)
I use my MF camera when I have time to be part of the photograph because I like the great OVF and the image quality that can be achieved with a single frame.
When the best image quality is needed I stitch, and I am still not sure whether it makes more sense to stitch with the D810 or the H6D-100c all things considered.
Cheers,
Bernard
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It's simple for me - I print large and the files from for XF100 are more workable than my Nikon 810. When I look at the 40x60 images I print, the difference between my Nikon 810 and my XF100 is significant to me.
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This really shadows remarks by others...but....if you haven't at least tried MF......you'll never know!
Give yourself an adventure......RENT a quality system for a week.....it won't break the bank....
You'll never look back...
Small sensors work fine for certain subjects...USE them for that...!!
Happy Adventuring...!!
Hank
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I don't really need it. It does make my 44x60 prints look damn good though. Super sharp. Lots of detail. That and the tax write off. Either I pay money to the IRS or I spend it on an overpriced camera system. May as well do the latter.
John
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+1 on Hank, you really should find an experience, and based off that work backwards. Once you start seeing the fine level of detail, and larger print sizes, the is no return.
Yes, i shoot Canon gear too, but really, when I travel, it's MF in my bag, when I shoot for clients, I shoot MF. Part preference, part 'what will I see'.
100mp is just a different level. I shot this with the H6D-100c http://www.gigapan.com/gigapans/191683
Stitching 100mp will make most computers just cry, but it's worth it - with the -100c http://www.gigapan.com/gigapans/196210
-Joe
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Hi,
You don't need medium format, what you need is gear that satisfies your needs. That gear may very well be medium format.
Renting MF gear is not a simple proposal, if you are not a professional photographer and don't have an insurance to cover it.
I have used some older MFD gear, Hasselblad 555/ELD and a P45+ back, but that didn't really work for my needs. I could use the back on a technical camera with a sliding back and a set of view camera lenses, but I never got there.
I have used that system for three years but stopped using it when I got my A7rII. The A7rII on my HCam TS Master II gives me +/- 15 mm of mechanical shift and 10 degrees of tilt with all my lenses. Would you use medium format that would correspond to +/- 30 mm of shift.
But, a real technical camera gives more options and if you print at 60"x40" there will be difference.
The Hasselblad X1D and the Fuji GFX may be excellent options.
So, it is a bit horses for the courses.
Best regards
Erik
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it is a bit horses for the courses.
For my work I need the level of detail and speed that Multishot sensors can extract out of the subject matter - currently these are only available (at a fully developed level) in Medium format.
If this weren't needed then I'd be using something else - as Eric says - Horses for courses; start from the result you want to get and work backwards to find out what needs packing into the cam bag/s.
Alex
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I don't need it but every time I look through a MF viewfinder I feel part of the scene and that's reason enough for me.
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Aside from the oft talked about image quality, for me, using Medium Format is a wonderful experience that makes the picture taking process much better. The viewfinder alone is a big thing. I like bigger cameras personally. The cameras themselves change the shooting process and each type has their different affect on not only that experience but results in the final product. It's an experience that creates a mind set that affects what you are taking, how you are taking it, and has physical aesthetic attributes that influence the viewer of the image.
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Several reasons.
Of course the IQ is nice.
Moduler system that allows me to use the same image recording device on multiple camera bodies, all of which their pluses and minuses. Keeps digital work flow more consistent.
Being able to use a bellows camera with lots of tilt/swing and shift, which is a big plus for table top.
If you are concerned about tilt and shift, there are many more focal lengths of higher quality available than in 35mm. This is especially the case for table top where you tend to use longer focal lengths.
For splash work, Copal shutters offer an instant capture whereas all DSLRs, even the P1 and Hassy bodies, have a slight delay.
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It's simple for me - I print large and the files from for XF100 are more workable than my Nikon 810. When I look at the 40x60 images I print, the difference between my Nikon 810 and my XF100 is significant to me.
I'm in the same boat. Quite simply, it's the right tool for the job.
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I agree with Joe Kitchen. How you want to interact with your subject, or need to for a client, dictates the best camera system to use. For me, a digital back on a 6x9 view camera with a range of lens offers the most versatile, cost effective system for photographing a range of subjects that are important in my photography. A fast lens on an AR7II offers me a very different way of interacting wth a subject, which I also enjoy and benefit from.
I can see the difference between what a 28 megapixel or 50 megapixel backs can achieve in my 40" wide x 60" to 70" high prints, but, when I show prints at a photo review or at a museum, curators are not looking at that difference in quality. They are looking at what I have to say about my subject. That is tied somewhat to the high IQ medium format digital backs can offer; but, far more importantly, it is dependent on how any given camera system allows me to interact with a subject.
Drew
www.drewharty.com
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Renting MF gear is not a simple proposal, if you are not a professional photographer and don't have an insurance to cover it.
Actually now it's really easy to rent certain lines of medium format gear. The Pentax 645D & 645Z, Hasselblad X1D and Fuji GFX 50S are available via Lensrentals.com, Lensprotogo.com and Borrowlenses.com among other social sharing platforms like ShareGrid.
I would actually suggest an event put on by one of the brands, to get a little hands on time, with instruction. Yes, shooting it on your own out in the field will be better, but really, you want to hang around someone who knows what they are using. The troubleshooting steps are fairly simple, but for an inexperienced shooter, it would be highly frustrating and would jade any user.
RDMAX, where are you located? Are you planning any trips soon? You've been asking a lot of questions as to why, or different platforms, or even film v digital across this and other LL boards. It sounds like you need an hour or two with someone who already owns a setup, so you can understand their rational. Also, tell us more about yourself, what you currently shoot & shoot with, and we can help fill in some of your questions.
-Joe
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Hi,
At least LensRentals requires an insurance:
"Is a certificate of insurance required to rent certain items?
Unfortunately, yes. With several of our very high value professional items, there are additional requirements for rental. Occasionally, even if you don’t rent one of these items, but you rent a very large amount of equipment, there are also additional requirements.
In these cases, we ask you to obtain independent insurance, if you don’t already carry production insurance. We will need to have a certificate of insurance that covers rented production equipment for at least the replacement value of the items on your order. The certificate must name LensRentals as an additional loss payee.
We require this insurance even if you pay for our damage waiver. We do this because, with high value items or large orders, our primary worry is that some of our equipment might be stolen from you on a busy set or shoot. With the high value of these items, the amount owed to us if it gets stolen is more than most people can pay out of pocket. The insurance gives us some measure of security that if the equipment disappears, we’ll be compensated."
No problem for a professional with an existing policy covering rented equipment but no so easy for an amateur.
Best regards
Erik
Actually now it's really easy to rent certain lines of medium format gear. The Pentax 645D & 645Z, Hasselblad X1D and Fuji GFX 50S are available via Lensrentals.com, Lensprotogo.com and Borrowlenses.com among other social sharing platforms like ShareGrid.
...
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Sure, but even if you're not a professional, if you own a lot of gear a "professional" policy may be worth it. I am a professional, but my policy is under $1k/year for $70k in gear ins plus rental (I pay another $650 for liability coverage).
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To me digital medium format on a Linhof Techno lets me shoot in the style of a large format photographer, without having to mess with film.
I don't shoot professionally and have no intention to, but still try to deliver the best quality I can, artistically speaking. I have strengths and weaknesses. I'm not comfortable around people and I'm slow. A slow thoughtful type of photography alone with nature is my thing. I like to experience and create as much as possible of the final photograph at the scene, and use post-processing just for fine-tuning. A view camera complete with tactile movements is just what I "need", and I've even come to appreciate the ground glass for the directness (although as my eyes grow older I'm sure I'll eventually want that live view).
If speed and efficiency had been a top priority I wouldn't use medium format. In terms of image quality, I think the best 135 systems provide more than adequate quality today, especially when comparing to my old-school 50MP CCD. I won't deny that there is some satisfaction to having ultra-high resolution especially when printing big, but there's diminishing returns. If I would do huge prints of group portraits where you can walk up to the print and study individual faces I'd probably want more resolving power than I have. For the subjects I shoot today the image quality of my current gear is just fine.
( here's a look at what I shoot: https://www.anderstorger.se )
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Hi,
At least LensRentals requires an insurance:
Yes, for the RED and ARRI stuff, but for the medium format gear their Lenscap+ coverage should be fine for 99% of us. Yes, other sites have various requirements, but there's always an option. https://www.insuremyequipment.com may be enough. Thus why I put the whole finding someone local or an event for an initial hands on.
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Hi Joe,
I live in a different country from yours with beautiful women (https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/12ADD/production/_95390567_cabe5afa-11ef-4b00-99ac-c3e8a7cde7b0.png)
low salaries and few rental companies. Here you need to have a business to rent, period.I considered renting, it was more realistic to buy… which I did.
Best regards
Erik
Ps. i have cheated some, neighbour country Norway has just established a female ranger unit. But I have a former lady colleague in the Swedish Marine Corps (Amfibiekåren) and she is a killer chick, too. But the real Killer Chick is of course an American gal: http://www.badassoftheweek.com/kimcampbell.html
Yes, for the RED and ARRI stuff, but for the medium format gear their Lenscap+ coverage should be fine for 99% of us. Yes, other sites have various requirements, but there's always an option. https://www.insuremyequipment.com may be enough. Thus why I put the whole finding someone local or an event for an initial hands on.
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I appreciate the answers about the factors in favor of "medium format" over smaller formats like 36x24mm, but most or all address the case a 54x40mm "full-sized digital medium format sensor" in a modular digital back, so that it is usable either with an OVF body or on a technical camera with shifts, tilts and such.
My follow-up question:
How does the reasoning change when it is a 44x33mm sensor in a body with an EVF instead of an OVF, as with the new offerings from Hasselblad and FujiFilm?
(BTW, one point I have not seen mentioned lately is flash sync at all speeds, offered by the leaf shutter lenses of some but not all MF systems.)
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Hi,
44x33 is sort of Midway...
Hasselblad X1D and Fuji GFX may be on the way to establish 44x33mm as a new "standard format". It may make some sense, especially for large print sizes.
Design a good system around 44x33mm and it will cover a great range of needs.
Best regards
Erik
I appreciate the answers about the factors in favor of "medium format" over smaller formats like 36x24mm, but most or all address the case a 54x40mm "full-sized digital medium format sensor" in a modular digital back, so that it is usable either with an OVF body or on a technical camera with shifts, tilts and such.
My follow-up question:
How does the reasoning change when it is a 44x33mm sensor in a body with an EVF instead of an OVF, as with the new offerings from Hasselblad and FujiFilm?
(BTW, one point I have not seen mentioned lately is flash sync at all speeds, offered by the leaf shutter lenses of some but not all MF systems.)
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With the new 44x33 cameras the prices has gone down significantly as well, at the same time the high res 135 with supporting lenses are not exactly cheap. The reduced price gap means that people don't need the same type of convincing for those systems. It's huge difference in price between a Fuji GFX and a Phase One XF 100MP.
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I live in a different country from yours with beautiful women...
Hey Erik,
Absolutely, but I wouldn't piss her off, she may shoot to injure rather than kill.
Yes, location absolutely matters, thus asking where RDMAX is at, and any vacations planned. I tend to chat with fellow photographers when I'm out and about, and have more than a few times offered up a shot with my Hass.
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So far none of the 44mm systems that are in a fixed body, x1d, gfx, Leica s, 645z, have been able to meet my needs for the photography in the areas that drew me medium format.
I would love to see a tiny body with evf work for me... but until then a tech cam, laptop, and modular setup with leaf shutters has the advantage.
I can see in the future 44mm potentially taking the place of the high end 36mm sector. This assumes 23mm and 17mm mirrorless cameras reach a focusing level that equals the sports cameras. My own personal work has been a mix of between m43 and mf...nothing in the middle has offered anything extra.
I am curious to see where mp counts level off as we reach higher up though. 16 - 24 is a sweet spot for a good majority of users. 100+ is really too much for general photography. I would never want to shoot a family birthday with a medium format camera at 50+ mp no matter how small and convenient the camera is.
I appreciate the answers about the factors in favor of "medium format" over smaller formats like 36x24mm, but most or all address the case a 54x40mm "full-sized digital medium format sensor" in a modular digital back, so that it is usable either with an OVF body or on a technical camera with shifts, tilts and such.
My follow-up question:
How does the reasoning change when it is a 44x33mm sensor in a body with an EVF instead of an OVF, as with the new offerings from Hasselblad and FujiFilm?
(BTW, one point I have not seen mentioned lately is flash sync at all speeds, offered by the leaf shutter lenses of some but not all MF systems.)
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Overall my opinin remains that 33x44 isn't differentiated enough compared to the best 35mm systems.
It only really makes sense if you come from APS-C.
Cheers,
Bernard