Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: sakharov.alexander on February 02, 2017, 12:50:00 pm
-
I've paid attention to one strange thing with my Pro 1000 - extremely high CO "ink" usage.
Normal ink used 60-80ml per color, CO - 217ml.
It is especially strange for the paper used for prints - matt paper.
Hahnemuhle Torchon and Photo Rag.
Paper type in driver - Extra Heavy Weight Fine Art, as Hahnemuhle recommend for their profiles. For this type of paper only one option of CO control (Clear Coating Aria) available at driver - Auto.
All prints was made from Lightroom and InDesign, from Mac and Windows.
Anybody met with something similar?
-
This is strange, insofar as CO should not be applied to matte papers. I shall make an inquiry about it and revert here if I find out anything useful.
-
Mine too likes very much to drink CO :). I print almost exclusively matt paper with the Highest Density Fine Art Paper setting and CO was the first to reach the ! warning. It consumes a stable 0.059 ml on every A2 matt paper print but sometimes is unpredictable like in an instance of two successive A4 matt prints when it drunk a big nice 1ml (almost) gulp of CO on each one :).
-
There is still something wrong with this narrative. Here is the word on CO usage directly from Canon technical materials:
CO is used
- Only for 12 color series (PRO-1000/2000/4000)*1
- Only when printing on glossy and semi-glossy types of paper.
- Only when selecting “High” or “Highest” quality in the printer driver and
Print Studio Pro.*2
*1:Amount of CO ink used depends on paper type, image and print setting.
*2:A slight amount of CO ink is used for maintenance purpose even if you select settings that do not use CO ink
■CO is not used
- For 8 color series (Pro-4000S/6000S).
- When printing on plain paper, matte coated paper or fine art paper.
- When selecting “Standard” quality in the printer driver and
Print Studio Pro.
-
(...)but sometimes is unpredictable like in an instance of two successive A4 matt prints when it drunk a big nice 1ml (almost) gulp of CO on each one :).
That is almost an understatement! Have a look on the attached images and pay attention to the C.O.
It happens with all different matte paper settings, sometimes a matte paper A4 print uses 3 times more C.O. than an A3plus print on a semi-gloss paper.
-
Geraldo,
There is a major incoherence here between what you show and what Canon says. So we need to resolve it. I notice that all of your examples are for 3rd party media. To use these papers you need to specify a Media Type. What Media Types are you using these papers? Does semi-glossy enter the picture somehow?
-
Here is the media settings for Hahnemühle PhotoRag:
The funny thing is that the Bamboo paper is also based on the same settings and uses minimal C.O. (possibly just for maintenance as stated).
-
Thanks Geraldo. I'm sending those settings off for review. I'll revert if I get useful feedback.
-
Recently filled up my chroma and proceeded to print a number of 9x12 on 11x14 paper. I was shocked at how quickly the chroma disappeared. A number of inks were listed as low and the chroma ran out way before. At that rate I estimated I would have gone through 8-10 chroma per tank if I chose full coverage on a every print.
-
Yes, with full coverage the CO runs out well before the other inks. I noticed that as well. Best to use Auto.
-
Thanks Geraldo. I'm sending those settings off for review. I'll revert if I get useful feedback.
Thanks Mark,
When I told hat to a Canon engineer he firs said I was wrong. After I proved him I was right and also that it happens with all printers (not a malfunction) he came with the excuse that it is "chroma optimizer" and not "gloss optimizer", so it may also be used on matte papers to enhance colors when the printer think is best. Nonsense, if you ask me.
Lets see what they tell you.
-
Based on the information I presently have it looks nonsensical to me too. Let's see what I learn further.
-
The two A4 matte prints I mentioned earlier, where almost a 1ml of CO used on each, were reprints I made earlier with exactly the same settings except the paper profile. In the first set of prints there was a usual consumption of CO. I don't believe that the profile made the difference. Also 1ml of CO, or any color, I think is a huge amount of ink for a A4 print. The two set of prints look very similar. I mean I cannot see the 1ml of CO on the print. Maybe after all the accounting manager software calculates also ink going to the maintenance tank or is buggy :).
-
It happens in some PRO-1000's
1) Stop printing
2) Wait for the incoming FW upgrade
-
It happens in some PRO-1000's
1) Stop printing
2) Wait for the incoming FW upgrade
Hello Marcin,
Thanks for the info, but please give us a bit more: Is it official? I mean, does Canon acknowledge this issue? Are they working on a firmware to correct this issue? Any guesstimate about the release date?
Thanks again.
-
I've put in an inquiry on this side of the pond. I'll advise if I receive useful info.
-
Hello Marcin,
Thanks for the info, but please give us a bit more: Is it official? I mean, does Canon acknowledge this issue? Are they working on a firmware to correct this issue? Any guesstimate about the release date?
Thanks again.
Not official, and please excuse me Geraldo, but no more comments ;)
-
Ah! Of course!
Thanks.
-
I've paid attention to one strange thing with my Pro 1000 - extremely high CO "ink" usage.
Normal ink used 60-80ml per color, CO - 217ml.
It is especially strange for the paper used for prints - matt paper.
Hahnemuhle Torchon and Photo Rag.
Paper type in driver - Extra Heavy Weight Fine Art, as Hahnemuhle recommend for their profiles. For this type of paper only one option of CO control (Clear Coating Aria) available at driver - Auto.
All prints was made from Lightroom and InDesign, from Mac and Windows.
Anybody met with something similar?
Hello,
does this mean you are already using the fourth cardrige for CO and for all others the second one? How often had you to exchange the maintenance cardridge?
-
Third CO and first or second (at the begining).
Today Canon support write me the next firmware update for Pro 1000 will be available from 14th of February.
It should help. They hope.
-
That is astonishing. 217 ml CO should be the fourth one: 40 ml for initial installation plus 2x 80 ml is 200 ml. So the figures delivered from the Canon software are quit a bit unreliable. That is something I see on my printer too. Prints with small differences of content can have total different ink consumption.
So I think the software is telling is a good guess and it is Not easy to measure what is realy put on the paper.
By the way, there is very similar discussion in Germany in the Fine Art Printer Forum
One of the latest answers is from one, That the accountingmanager states 1097 ml used with the first ink set only CO second one. Everbody is saying half of the ink is used for Installation, then the accountingmanager doubles the used ink.
-
I checked my usage of CO on my printer:
CO usage 98 ml, but still first cartridge.
All inks used: 938 ml, but did not replace any ink.
So this tool is really not reliable.
-
The new firmware version 2.040 is available. Printer is downloading it now.
-
It was not available on the website but the printer managed to find and download it.
I only had time to make two A4 prints to test and the screengrabs of the ink consumption of both can be found below. Both A4 prints on Hahnemühle Photo Rag 308 (base paper "High Density Art", Black ink "Matte").
So far so good, only marginal consumption of C.O. and PBK for maintenance as Canon stated. Lets see during the next days.
-
It was not available on the website but the printer managed to find and download it.
I only had time to make two A4 prints to test and the screengrabs of the ink consumption of both can be found below. Both A4 prints on Hahnemühle Photo Rag 308 (base paper "High Density Art", Black ink "Matte").
So far so good, only marginal consumption of C.O. and PBK for maintenance as Canon stated. Lets see during the next days.
The issue is quite "magical" and only occurs in some specific, rare cases. Hope new firmware will fix it for good.
-
The issue is quite "magical" and only occurs in some specific, rare cases. Hope new firmware will fix it for good.
It was quite frequent to me, about half of my matte prints displayed abnormally high C.O. usage, like 0.4ml on a matte A4 (instead of the present 0.03ml). On rare occasions the usage would be simply absurd, something like 1.5ml of C.O. on a matte A4. I will have to print some portfolios tomorrow and will run them on the pro 1000 to test it.
-
Have anyone made a sum of all the print consumption for a single color and checked when the color finish how much is the sum? On my printer only on CO things look so-so real. Other cartridges I changed report 7ml job consumption. I know that half of the ink went for priming but the other half (40ml) is reported as ~7ml??
-
Have anyone made a sum of all the print consumption for a single color and checked when the color finish how much is the sum? On my printer only on CO things look so-so real. Other cartridges I changed report 7ml job consumption. I know that half of the ink went for priming but the other half (40ml) is reported as ~7ml??
Maybe 7ml ended on paper and the rest went in the maintenance tank? This is the consumption on my pro-1000 so far. I am on the first set of cartridges. None of the 12 colors is empty yet. All have the ! notice except PC.
-
Does somebody know where to download the new firmware from?
My Pro 1000 is setup via USB, so I have to do the update from my computer.
Ludwig
-
Go to your favourite canon site (here it's www.canon.fr) and navigate down through the pages under support.
You'll eventually find a "Firmware updater"... note that the version of the updater is not the version of the firmware: updater v2.1 updates the firmware to v2.20.
Last night the French site still had only the v2.20.
It seems logical that if the accounting software is showing a greater debit than the contents of the cartridge, then the problem is of accounting rather than actual usage, so the issue is not so urgent.
-
Grahamby,
thanks, I think I have to wait a little bit in this case.
Ludwig
-
The issue is quite "magical" and only occurs in some specific, rare cases. Hope new firmware will fix it for good.
Unfortunately it happens for all my Fine Art prints :-(
Firmware update solve it partly.
Hahnemuhle recommends for Torchon and Photo Rag paper to use Highest Density Fine Art Paper option in driver.
Actually, they recommends to use High Density Fine Art Paper, but it looks as wrong translation from German "Fine-Art-Papier, max. Frbdichte".
With firmware 2.02 for A3 Photo Rag it takes around 5.5ml of all inks. In this 5.5ml CO was close to 4ml.
With firmware 2.04 for the same paper and the same photo, total amount of ink for one A3 page is 2.44ml, in this ink volume CO is 1.2ml.
If I change paper type in driver from Highest Density Fine Art to Extra Heavyweight Fine Art, total ink us is 1.7ml, CO - 0.7ml.
Part of Accounting Manager screen shot attached. Last two jobs was printed with new firmware.
-
I printed 10 A3+ (13x19") on matte papers today (mostly Hahnemühle Photo Rag 308) using the new firmware and so far the usage of C.O. was minimal, ranging from 0.040 to 0.045ml per A3+.
Looks like they got it right this time.
Alexander, our total ink usage for an A3+ (larger than A3) printing the Outback Photo Printer Evaluation Image (http://www.jirvana.com/printer_tests/PrinterEvaluationImage_V002.zip) image (largest size possible on the page not going borderless) over Hahnemühle Photo Rag 308 is 1.57ml. Highest quality, custom media using "High Density Art" as base, Ink setting as Medium-High. The C.O. for this print was 0.040ml.
-
I installed the new firmware last night, haven't used it since, but I'm wondering if it might fix something else I only just realised was a problem: twice since installing v2.020, the printer refused to wake up unless I unplugged the power cord for a few minutes. I presume this forces a reboot of the firmware, since it is also the procedure after updating.
Anyone else experience this?
No problem since going to 2.040, so far.
-
Printed the same test image with exactly the same matt paper setup as Geraldo Garcia recommended.
CO usage 1.2ml for A3 print with borders.
30 times more than 0.04ml.
-
Yes, there is still some unclear behavior with CO.
I printed today several A2 and A3 pages on Canon's Pro Premium matt PM-101 - same image with minor changes.
A3 page, highest quality - 0.028 CO (2.169 all) - 1.3% CO
A4 (half A3 page) page. high quality - 0.115 CO (1.115 all) - 10%
Between the listed two jobs there is no change in the picture!
The following are some more tests I did:
A4 (half A3 page) page. high quality - 0.109 CO (0.962 all) - 11%
A3 page borderless high quality - 0.384 CO (2.226 all) = 17%
So it is still not clear for me what is going on...