Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Doug Peterson on October 03, 2016, 06:59:03 am
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There are a lot of new features in Phase One XF Feature Update 3 (https://digitaltransitions.com/feature-update-3-phase-one-xf/) but the electronic shutter really stands out both for its massive implications as well as the complicated nature of the subject matter.
We've published an extensive article here:
Phase One Electronic Shutter (https://digitaltransitions.com/iq3-100mp-electronic-shutter/)
We've been playing with this feature for a while now. If you have any questions leave them here or contact us (https://digitaltransitions.com/contact-us/) and we'll be glad to answer.
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There are a lot of new features in Phase One XF Feature Update 3 (https://digitaltransitions.com/feature-update-3-phase-one-xf/) but the electronic shutter really stands out both for its massive implications as well as the complicated nature of the subject matter.
We've published an extensive article here:
Phase One Electronic Shutter (https://digitaltransitions.com/iq3-100mp-electronic-shutter/)
We've been playing with this feature for a while now. If you have any questions leave them here or contact us (https://digitaltransitions.com/contact-us/) and we'll be glad to answer.
Hi Doug
Please can you expand on this when using ES on tech camera
"Manual Dark Frame (only required on tech cams): When using the ES on a tech camera like a Cambo or Arca the digital back needs the user to cover the lens (e.g. with the lens hood) for the dark frame on at least the first frame. On an XF the camera can take care of the dark frame automatically by closing the focal plane shutter."
How does the darkframe work today on a technical camera? I use IQ380 on an Arca. I assume the DB takes a dark frame after my initial frame, when using my leaf shutter, what has changed
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Hi Doug
Please can you expand on this when using ES on tech camera
"Manual Dark Frame (only required on tech cams): When using the ES on a tech camera like a Cambo or Arca the digital back needs the user to cover the lens (e.g. with the lens hood) for the dark frame on at least the first frame. On an XF the camera can take care of the dark frame automatically by closing the focal plane shutter."
How does the darkframe work today on a technical camera? I use IQ380 on an Arca. I assume the DB takes a dark frame after my initial frame, when using my leaf shutter, what has changed
Look later in the article under "Dark Frame Control"
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Look later in the article under "Dark Frame Control"
Many thanks - very clear and excellent article.
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Thanks Doug,
A few questions:
- Will this be available for both IQ3 and IQ1?
- Any impact on DR?
Thank you.
Cheers,
Bernard
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I'm pretty sure IQ3 only, but let's see.
I will have to do my own testing, but the first comments were same file quality.
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Works like a dream..... 1/3 stops and no cables or shutter releases. The only time that stuff is needed is for shutter speeds longer than 1.3 seconds.
Victor
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- Will this be available for both IQ3 and IQ1?
This is a feature of the IQ3 100mp only. No other backs.
As covered in the long/detailed Phase One Electronic Shutter (ES) (https://digitaltransitions.com/iq3-100mp-electronic-shutter/) article.
- Any impact on DR?
No. Same image quality.
As covered in the long/detailed Phase One Electronic Shutter (ES) (https://digitaltransitions.com/iq3-100mp-electronic-shutter/) article.
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Works like a dream..... 1/3 stops and no cables or shutter releases. The only time that stuff is needed is for shutter speeds longer than 1.3 seconds.
Can you clarify what you meant here. I think I'm just having a hard time parsing your words. Then again I woke up at 5am ET to have this posted at the time the embargo lifted.
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Doug..... as I understand the ES I am limited to the speeds normally available on the XF. The longest shutter speed available is 1.3 Seconds. After that, as I understand it, I need to use the shutter on my lens in either B or T mode. Am I missing something?
Victor
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Doug..... as I understand the ES I am limited to the speeds normally available on the XF. The longest shutter speed available is 1.3 Seconds. After that, as I understand it, I need to use the shutter on my lens in either B or T mode. Am I missing something?
This is not correct.
All XF and IQ combinations can select shutter speeds, in 1/3rd of a stop increments, from 1/4000 to 1 hour. For example you can select [2.5"] or [3"] or [1 minute 20"] or [1 min 40"] or [50 min]. You can do this on the XF with the mechanical or electronic shutter and you can do this on the IQ on a technical camera with the electronic shutter.
If this is misstated or confusing in our article please point out where so I can improve it.
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Thanks so much for the clarification...... I was, and still am, so excited that for some reason while investigating on my IQ3100 I thought there was a stop at 1.3 seconds. Obviously that it not true. Again...... very, very cool!!!!
Victor
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Thanks so much for the clarification...... I was, and still am, so excited that for some reason while investigating on my IQ3100 I thought there was a stop at 1.3 seconds. Obviously that it not true. Again...... very, very cool!!!!
I've added a section called ES Capability & Compatibility to the article which now includes this explanation. Let me know if it is not clear.
Shutter Speed Range: Regardless of the body it is used with the ES can be set between 1/4000 sec and 1 hour in 1/3rd stop increments. When using the deflicker setting the fastest shutter speed is 1/125. When syncing with strobe only 1.6" and longer is possible.
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There are a lot of new features in Phase One XF Feature Update 3 (https://digitaltransitions.com/feature-update-3-phase-one-xf/) but the electronic shutter really stands out both for its massive implications as well as the complicated nature of the subject matter.
We've published an extensive article here:
Phase One Electronic Shutter (https://digitaltransitions.com/iq3-100mp-electronic-shutter/)
We've been playing with this feature for a while now. If you have any questions leave them here or contact us (https://digitaltransitions.com/contact-us/) and we'll be glad to answer.
Readers might be interested in how the electronic shutter in the Phase One compares to EFC (electronic first curtain shutter) in the Nikon D810, Sony A7s and other 135 style cameras. With EFC the front curtain is open and exposure is initiated by resetting the sensor in the same direction and speed that the first curtain would move. Jim Kasson has done some studies and has determined that with the D810 it takes 2.5 milliseconds for the first curtain to traverse the height of the frame. With the A7s the traverse time is 4 ms. The exposure is terminated by closing the mechanical rear curtain. Since exposure is ending at this time, any vibration of the second curtain has negligible effect on image quality.
The Sony has a fully electronic mode where exposure is termnated by reading out the sensor in the same direction that the mechanical rear curtain would move. This is considerabliy slower, taking about 34 ms or 1/30 sec. By comparison, it takes about 1 second to read out the sensor according to the paper Doug referenced in his first post.
http://blog.kasson.com/?p=6450
http://blog.kasson.com/?p=6641
Bill Janes
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Readers might be interested in how the electronic shutter in the Phase One compares to EFC (electronic first curtain shutter) in the Nikon D810, Sony A7s and other 135 style cameras. With EFC the front curtain is open and exposure is initiated by resetting the sensor in the same direction and speed that the first curtain would move. Jim Kasson has done some studies and has determined that with the D810 it takes 2.5 milliseconds for the first curtain to traverse the height of the frame. With the A7s the traverse time is 4 ms. The exposure is terminated by closing the mechanical rear curtain. Since exposure is ending at this time, any vibration of the second curtain has negligible effect on image quality.
Quick note that the IQ3 100mp and IQ1 100mp both also feature EFCS (and have since launch) which is automatically on whenever relevant.
The ES is a completely separate capability.
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Thanks for all the info Doug- this is a super cool feature!
On a tech cam, is there a way to do a bracket with the ES? It would be amazing (AMAZING!) to tap the shutter button once, and have the camera fire off 3 or 5 images without all that work on the lens' shutter dial.
Jeff
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On a tech cam, is there a way to do a bracket with the ES? It would be amazing (AMAZING!) to tap the shutter button once, and have the camera fire off 3 or 5 images without all that work on the lens' shutter dial.
That is not currently possible. That's a great idea though! I will pass that feedback on for you. :D
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What is the overall readout time for the ES? How long does an exposure take?
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What is the overall readout time for the ES? How long does an exposure take?
Around a second and a half for short exposures (e.g. 1/125th).
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That is not currently possible. That's a great idea though! I will pass that feedback on for you. :D
Bummer! It was the first thing I thought of... kinda surprised it wasn't included. Maybe they'll do a 3.1 soon =)
Let us know when you finished any testing and feel confident for customers to install. Thanks Doug!
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This is a feature of the IQ3 100mp only. No other backs.
Thanks, that has just sealed my non P1 future. ;)
Cheers,
Bernard
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For once Phase is clearly going in the right direction.
Alpa are going to be very very happy.
Canon and Samyang etc are going to sell a lot of shift lenses.
Edmund
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Alpa are going to be very very happy.
Canon and Samyang etc are going to sell a lot of shift lenses.
Edmund
Yes, I hope Alpa release a firmware update soon for the FPS with an option to put it in ES mode, FP shutter locked open (possible right now, of course) and the shutter button or cable release triggering the ES, rather than stabbing at the back screen as you must here.
Of course all tech camera owners will be very happy with this new feature. Plus it can only improve with time.
A good thing about this on FPS is the ability to use the FP shutter when freezing action is required, but ES when not. Very cool.
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Actually, if the exact time of capture is not critical, you might find stabbing the button to be the best method. The other day I was doing the Alpa shim dance with my back and lenses. That exercise reminded me how careful I have to be with the cable release. With the sk 150 mounted, any very slight tug while triggering affects sharpness. Easy to manage inside, but not so when balancing on a rock or shivering outside.
Stabbing the back with a 2 sec delay eliminates that, or stabbing the iPhone through CP.
Dave
Yes, I hope Alpa release a firmware update soon for the FPS with an option to put it in ES mode, FP shutter locked open (possible right now, of course) and the shutter button or cable release triggering the ES, rather than stabbing at the back screen as you must here.
Of course all tech camera owners will be very happy with this new feature. Plus it can only improve with time.
A good thing about this on FPS is the ability to use the FP shutter when freezing action is required, but ES when not. Very cool.
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Interesting that the 'Electronic Shutter' thread has 23 replies (#24 now!) in the first 24hrs, whereas the 'XF Feature Upgrade' has just 5.
Clearly this is an outstanding feature/development, and one that has a lot of people interested.
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Interesting that the 'Electronic Shutter' thread has 23 replies (#24 now!) in the first 24hrs, whereas the 'XF Feature Upgrade' has just 5.
Clearly this is an outstanding feature/development, and one that has a lot of people interested.
Probably indicative of both how valued this feature is, and also that a forum dominated by landscape photographers won't be as excited by new features for flash photography :).
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For once Phase is clearly going in the right direction.
Woah. When Edmund is saying this you know it's gotta be good! :)
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Woah. When Edmund is saying this you know it's gotta be good! :)
Yes, I'm given to understatement :)
BTW, what cold continuous lights are you selling to cultural institutions?
Edmund
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just finished a quick shoot with my rm3di, and between the cmos LiveView, the new ES, and the wifi and capture pilot on my iPhone 7s, it’s a new world out there.
composing and focusing easy, no cables, no fuss, no muss. Only thing that got me is after firing the first shot, the back ask me to put a lens cap on or close the shutter for a black reference frame. I was worried it would do this for every shot, but only did it for the first one.
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BTW, what cold continuous lights are you selling to cultural institutions?
Our own. Made in the USA. Highest CRI, CRI-14, and CQS value of any light that I'm aware of. We then include the profiles for these lights for each Phase One back and the test targets needed to validate that you're rocking high-precision color. In addition to my usual bias I may be a bit extra enthusiastic about these... they were part of my first product as a Product Manager: the DT Atom (http://dtdch.com/dt-atom-entry-level-digitizer/).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1473&v=jokn_O-nvek
(http://dtdch.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/photons.jpg)
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That is not currently possible. That's a great idea though! I will pass that feedback on for you. :D
Hi Dough
Here what I think will be useful for technical camera users with tilt option, as a request to Phase developers
The ability during live view to either have the DB or IPAd split screen along the middle horizontally if doing tilt, and the ability to zoom 100% on distant and near ground items.
This will the user to focus, tilt and focus without zooming in and out and moving up or down
Any suggestions