Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: hasselbladfan on July 14, 2016, 08:37:16 am

Title: Leica S Trade-in / trade-up : what is behind it?
Post by: hasselbladfan on July 14, 2016, 08:37:16 am: I noticed a new trade-in / trade-up deal on the 007 in the UK.

Is this in preparation of a new 008 at the Photokina or as a defence against the new Hasselblad 1DX ?

Interesting times in MF.

https://www.leica-storemayfair.co.uk/pages/leica-professional-trade-in-promotion
Title: Re: Leica S Trade-in / trade-up : what is behind it?
Post by: BAB on July 14, 2016, 09:44:13 am: It would have been interesting to see them offer a trade-in program including the M240 as a qualifying option!
They do however provide a "
These include the loan and delivery of replacement equipment within 24 hours by Leica Service, and ensures that the availability of the camera system is guaranteed at all times."[/color][/font][/size]
Title: Re: Leica S Trade-in / trade-up : what is behind it?
Post by: hasselbladfan on July 14, 2016, 11:01:52 am: True. They all like to put their consumer in a box. You are a M user, you should stay there. You are MF, you are OK. LOL

Hasselblad is doing the same. A great trade-up program for the H6, but it will not be applicable to the X1D. :)

They all need more commercial sense. The more they will open the bounderies, the more they will sell new cameras and the more refurbished they will have for new / less fortunate customers. Win-win for all.
Title: Re: Leica S Trade-in / trade-up : what is behind it?
Post by: tcdeveau on July 14, 2016, 11:13:03 am: Interesting that the Leica trade-in/up deal and the Hasselblad trade-in/up deal end on the same day - Sept 30th, 2016. I wonder if this is coincidence or something else...
Title: Re: Leica S Trade-in / trade-up : what is behind it?
Post by: Joe Towner on July 14, 2016, 11:30:34 am: Quote from: tcdeveau on July 14, 2016, 11:13:03 am
Interesting that the Leica trade-in/up deal and the Hasselblad trade-in/up deal end on the same day - Sept 30th, 2016. I wonder if this is coincidence or something else...
Fiscal quarters? If you want to take advantage of it, we need it in Q3.
Title: Re: Leica S Trade-in / trade-up : what is behind it?
Post by: tcdeveau on July 14, 2016, 11:31:53 am: Quote from: Joe Towner on July 14, 2016, 11:30:34 am
Fiscal quarters? If you want to take advantage of it, we need it in Q3.

Ah makes sense, thanks for the explanation
Title: Re: Leica S Trade-in / trade-up : what is behind it?
Post by: Theodoros on July 14, 2016, 03:08:36 pm: Quote from: tcdeveau on July 14, 2016, 11:13:03 am
Interesting that the Leica trade-in/up deal and the Hasselblad trade-in/up deal end on the same day - Sept 30th, 2016. I wonder if this is coincidence or something else...

The Hasselblad program (to trade H6D-50 for H6D-100) ends on the 30th of October (obviously because they expect to have satisfied all H6D -100 demand by then and have the camera for immediate delivery after that)... The (trade up) promotion for the H6D has no expiration date... As usual with Hasselblad promotions, next promotion program should be expected to improve on the previous one (I speak based on recent past experience) until it ends up to a final low price (which I believe will be very close to the current one for H5D-50) that will include no trading program....

If one subtracts the current discounts offered on the H6D-50 by Hassy for older equipment, he ends up very near to the price of an H5D-50... this a strong hint on where the final price of the H6D should end up...
Title: Re: Leica S Trade-in / trade-up : what is behind it?
Post by: siddhaarta on July 14, 2016, 03:41:25 pm: Quote from: Theodoros on July 14, 2016, 03:08:36 pm

If one subtracts the current discounts offered on the H6D-50 by Hassy for older equipment, he ends up very near to the price of an H5D-50... this a strong hint on where the final price of the H6D should end up...

Agree, I suppose this is exactly what will happen, also because of the cannibalizing danger of X1D …

Compared to Hasselblad, this Leica upgrade deal is quite boring ...
Title: Re: Leica S Trade-in / trade-up : what is behind it?
Post by: tcdeveau on July 14, 2016, 05:07:54 pm: Quote from: Theodoros on July 14, 2016, 03:08:36 pm
The Hasselblad program (to trade H6D-50 for H6D-100) ends on the 30th of October (obviously because they expect to have satisfied all H6D -100 demand by then and have the camera for immediate delivery after that)... The (trade up) promotion for the H6D has no expiration date... As usual with Hasselblad promotions, next promotion program should be expected to improve on the previous one (I speak based on recent past experience) until it ends up to a final low price (which I believe will be very close to the current one for H5D-50) that will include no trading program....

If one subtracts the current discounts offered on the H6D-50 by Hassy for older equipment, he ends up very near to the price of an H5D-50... this a strong hint on where the final price of the H6D should end up...

This is the Hasselblad program I was referring to, which is advertised to end Sept. 30th, 2016, at least in the US:

http://www.hasselblad.com/us/products/h6d-trade-in-program/

The trade-up program may very well not have an expiration date but that was what I was going off of with my previous post. The exact date thought isn't that important and probaby has little relevance....you're speaking from experience and when I was looking at possibly upgrading to an H5D-50c wifi my rep told me that promotion had no expiration. The Hasselblad trade-up offers are very generous IMHO, and you are probably correct regarding future promotions being an improvement over the current one and the final H6D-50c price ending up around or where pricing of the H5D-50c wifi currently stands.

Back to Leica, good for them for a program that should get more 007's out in the hands of photogs.
Title: Re: Leica S Trade-in / trade-up : what is behind it?
Post by: Theodoros on July 14, 2016, 05:21:51 pm: Quote from: siddhaarta on July 14, 2016, 03:41:25 pm
Agree, I suppose this is exactly what will happen, also because of the cannibalizing danger of X1D …

Compared to Hasselblad, this Leica upgrade deal is quite boring ...

I believe Leica (being handicapped on their pricing policy design) is testing the market "resistance" as to find the highest possible resistance point... I'm sure they'll test it lower next time... I'm not sure though how much time all competition (not only Leica) has as to finish the their tests and decide on a final policy before the situation becomes irreversible in favor of Hasselblad...

There is no question that Hasselblad will establish it self on the lead of MF sales this year (by far from the second)... The question is "how much room will be left for existing competition as to survive"... That entirely depends on the competitor company... he first has to decide on "how much room he needs" as to secure his survival, then to decide on the price policy that will work with respect to that "room" and finally (after he ensures that previous mentioned market base) to see if he can build further on it... Surely the situation isn't easy for the rest of the makers...
Title: Re: Leica S Trade-in / trade-up : what is behind it?
Post by: BernardLanguillier on July 15, 2016, 12:14:29 am: These programs make cheap 645D a great money saver!

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Leica S Trade-in / trade-up : what is behind it?
Post by: Theodoros on July 15, 2016, 09:19:49 am: Quote from: BernardLanguillier on July 15, 2016, 12:14:29 am
These programs make cheap 645D a great money saver!

Cheers,
Bernard

I would totally disagree with this... 645D is nothing else but a white elephant if you ask me... IMO it has no chance for future survival after there will be some price competition... None what so ever! (modern) Lenses are as expensive as the more prestigious competition and the body is a bad & outdated design that can't survive in the future.... Look at it! It has the mounting distance of a 6x6 (!!!!!) body and the image area size that requires a mounting distance equal to that of the Leica S body... I'm sure that its future will be the same as it was with the respective film body of Pentax (of which it is a replication) and exactly for the same reasons too....
Title: Re: Leica S Trade-in / trade-up : what is behind it?
Post by: BernardLanguillier on July 15, 2016, 10:54:43 am: Quote from: Theodoros on July 15, 2016, 09:19:49 am
I would totally disagree with this... 645D is nothing else but a white elephant if you ask me... IMO it has no chance for future survival after there will be some price competition... None what so ever! (modern) Lenses are as expensive as the more prestigious competition and the body is a bad & outdated design that can't survive in the future.... Look at it! It has the mounting distance of a 6x6 (!!!!!) body and the image area size that requires a mounting distance equal to that of the Leica S body... I'm sure that its future will be the same as it was with the respective film body of Pentax (of which it is a replication) and exactly for the same reasons too....

Well, maybe, but you can buy one for little more than 2,000 US$'and it will get you a 7,000 US$ discount on a top Hassy body... ;)

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Leica S Trade-in / trade-up : what is behind it?
Post by: Theodoros on July 17, 2016, 01:40:51 pm: Quote from: BernardLanguillier on July 15, 2016, 10:54:43 am
Well, maybe, but you can buy one for little more than 2,000 US$'and it will get you a 7,000 US$ discount on a top Hassy body... ;)

Cheers,
Bernard

...or perhaps save the 2K, wait for a while and get a better than 7K discount on the Hassy too... Past experience helps here! ;)
Title: Re: Leica S Trade-in / trade-up : what is behind it?
Post by: Bo Dez on July 18, 2016, 11:33:57 am: Leica will have to do something. Either a 008 with the chops to compete with current offerings from Hasselblad and Phase One, or a new S-E (007) priced much lower to compete with Hasselblad X1D.

£13K for 37MP is truly ridiculous in this day and age. Who in their right mind would buy this?
Title: Re: Leica S Trade-in / trade-up : what is behind it?
Post by: hasselbladfan on July 22, 2016, 05:20:42 am: Leica's position is that between a 37MP and 50MP, there is not a significant quality difference (I cannot judge this). Never worked with a 50MP.

The next frontier of visible difference in picture quality seem to be at 70-100MP, according to them.
Title: Re: Leica S Trade-in / trade-up : what is behind it?
Post by: hasselbladfan on July 22, 2016, 05:22:02 am: http://www.reddotforum.com/content/2014/11/why-leica-is-staying-at-37-5mp-for-the-s-typ-007/

The article why they stay at 37M.
Title: Re: Leica S Trade-in / trade-up : what is behind it?
Post by: BAB on July 23, 2016, 10:26:47 am: Leica might offer a S007-50c this would be same body so no tooling expenses and it would satisfy may potential buyers!
Title: Re: Leica S Trade-in / trade-up : what is behind it?
Post by: hasselbladfan on July 23, 2016, 12:55:34 pm: Since Leica is developing their own sensors with CMOSIS (Belgium firm), it is not so easy to just swap the sensor for the standard 50c Sony sensor Hasselblad, Pentax and Phase One are using.
Title: Re: Leica S Trade-in / trade-up : what is behind it?
Post by: siddhaarta on July 23, 2016, 01:10:54 pm: And the aspect ratio is different: 3:2 instead of 4:3. I doubt, Leica is interested in changing that, as it is part of their DNA.

If they would, still the diagonal of the Sony sensor is about 1mm more than the CMOSIS, so I don't know if the lenses would be vignetting a bit and if the housing would permit to put this sensor in it.