Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Neil Williams on June 25, 2016, 08:34:08 am
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Guys
I am going to order the H6D 100 (I will get the 50 first while waiting for the 100) I will also get the 120mm Macro as I like portraiture and landscape. My question is regarding my second lens. What would you guys recommend for a wide angle prime for landscape?
Thanks in advance
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I think you have two choices of wide HC lenses (HCD lenses work best on H6D50): 50mm and 28mm. 35mm has bad reputation, would probably avoid it. I would get HC 50mm II.
Reconsider the 120mm Macro. It is a great lens, but heavy and with a very slow focus. HC 100mm is light and excellent as well.
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I think you have two choices of wide HC lenses (HCD lenses work best on H6D50): 50mm and 28mm. 35mm has bad reputation, would probably avoid it. I would get HC 50mm II.
Reconsider the 120mm Macro. It is a great lens, but heavy and with a very slow focus. HC 100mm is light and excellent as well.
There's also a 24mm
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+1 on the HC 50mm II - Until there are enough samples of the new back with the 35mm I'm hesitant to recommend it with the 100mp.
Do you need the new shutter, as in 1/2000th? I'd consider what adding the 80mm kit lens would do price wise, as you may be waiting a while to get the other focal lengths at the new faster speed. The 24mm and 28mm are great, but you won't get full coverage on the 100mp - is this ok?
Also consider the 80mm + 1.7x tele instead of the 120 Macro. I would think the 50mm + 80mm + 1.7x would be a pretty solid kit for someone who is willing to stitch anything super wide (and the 150mm for those needing extra long reach).
I've got the 120 this weekend for a few projects, so I'll be quickly reminded if I hate it's slowness or not.
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There's also a 24mm
Yes it is a great lens, but it is HCD and those are designed for 50mp backs. My mistake with 28mm, I forgot it is HCD as well.
It seems for full coverage 50mm is the best wide for 100mp backs. I agree with TC 1.7x suggestion, it works very well.
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The 24mm and 28mm are great, but you won't get full coverage on the 100mp - is this ok?
Are you saying the image circle is too small for the size of the sensor or that the optical quality falls off too much? It seems strange to me that they would produce a wide angle lens for this system that doesn't cover the full frame for all of the backs that you can attach to it. For example the Phase 28mm absolutely covers the whole frame of the 100mp back but the optical quality in the corners is the pits.
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Are you saying the image circle is too small for the size of the sensor or that the optical quality falls off too much? It seems strange to me that they would produce a wide angle lens for this system that doesn't cover the full frame for all of the backs that you can attach to it. For example the Phase 28mm absolutely covers the whole frame of the 100mp back but the optical quality in the corners is the pits.
I believe that HCD lenses were explicitly designed for their smaller sensor cameras.
Hasselblad's data sheets explain that HCD lenses are designed for a 37 x 49mm format. H6D50 is 33 x 44mm, H6D100 is 40 x 53.4mm.
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Yes, HCD lenses are for non full frame cameras. I shoot mostly portraits with mine and have the 35/50/80/120, but could really do with the 80 and 120, but it totally depends on how you see.
-Doug
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Thanks of all the feedback, I'm a wee bitty lost when you say HCD does not have full coverage..........what does that mean in roughneck terms???
I'm used to shooting a Leica S and know that my 120 is not really a 120 but maybe a 90 but I'm really not sure why that is.
Sorry for what is probably going to sound like a dumb question??
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Thanks of all the feedback, I'm a wee bitty lost when you say HCD does not have full coverage..........what does that mean in roughneck terms???
I'm used to shooting a Leica S and know that my 120 is not really a 120 but maybe a 90 but I'm really not sure why that is.
Sorry for what is probably going to sound like a dumb question??
It means that the image circle projected by the lens is too small compared to the size of the sensor.
It translates into corners that are unusable, either very dark and blurry, sometimes completely black.
Practically it means that you will have to crop the outer area of the image, turning your 100mp 40x54mm sensor into a ~80mp 36x48mm sensor and that you need to anticipate that when framing your images.
In fact those lenses may be able to cover a bit more than 36x48mm, so it may be more like 85mp, but they key point is to frame a bit wider.
Cheers,
Bernard
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I believe that HCD lenses were explicitly designed for their smaller sensor cameras.
Hasselblad's data sheets explain that HCD lenses are designed for a 37 x 49mm format. H6D50 is 33 x 44mm, H6D100 is 40 x 53.4mm.
What a weird choice, especially for a $7k lens.
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What a weird choice, especially for a $7k lens.
Has anybody ever made a 24mm for FF MF?
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Rodentstock 23mm on the Alpa covers the whole 100mp sensor ;)
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Rodentstock 23mm on the Alpa covers the whole 100mp sensor ;)
The Digaron S crossed my mind, but I was not sure if their image circle is sufficient. I guess it works without movements on a 100MP sensor.
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The Digaron S crossed my mind, but I was not sure if their image circle is sufficient. I guess it works without movements on a 100MP sensor.
It works fine on FF (54x40mm) with about 5-7mm of movement. LCC and CF required.
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Again thanks for the feedback. I think I will go with the 50mm II version and instead of the 120mm get the 100mm instead. I will get the V adapter as well so that I van use my V lenses.
I will then think about a 20ish lens at a later date when #1 I have more money, plus also wait and see what other users use on the 100c backs.
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Practically it means that you will have to crop the outer area of the image,
Actually they auto crop in Phocus...
The amount is quite small (I can't remember exactly what) so a 28mm may still be an option for you
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There is a landscape test of Hasselblad lenses here: http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=94852
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Okay so it's all happening way to fast but I've just been offered a fantastic deal on a New H6D but will initially have only enough cash for one lens so what should I get. 100 or 50 or ??
Next week I'm going to Switzerland and northern Italy for 10 days photo trip so which ever lens I get it would need to cover that trip.
Question. The 50mm II lens on the H6D is equivalent to what FL ?
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Okay so it's all happening way to fast but I've just been offered a fantastic deal on a New H6D but will initially have only enough cash for one lens so what should I get. 100 or 50 or ??
Next week I'm going to Switzerland and northern Italy for 10 days photo trip so which ever lens I get it would need to cover that trip.
Question. The 50mm II lens on the H6D is equivalent to what FL ?
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Equivalent relative to what? :)
Relative to a full frame 35mm camera, if that's your question, you wold multiply times 0.8 for the 50mp version of the camera and times 0.63 for the 100mp back version of the camera.
Relative to full digital 645 it's 50mm on the 100mp and 1.3 times that on the 50mp.
Personally I'd take the 100mp back. Oh wait you asked which lens not which back - that depends on whether you want a moderate wide angle lens or something slightly longer than a standard lens.
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Equivalent relative to what? :)
Relative to a full frame 35mm camera, if that's your question, you wold multiply times 0.8 for the 50mp and times 0.63 for the 100mp back.
Relative to full digital 645 it's 50mm on the 100mp and 1.3 times that on the 50mp.
Personally I'd take the 100mp back. Oh wait you a sled which lens - that depends on whether you want a wide angle lens or something slightly longer than a standard lens.
yes I plan on taking the 100 back but Hasselblad don't have any right now so I will upgrade to the 100 once it comes out.
So if I got the 50mm lens that would look like a 40mm FL is that correct or am I barking up the wrong tree
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yes I plan on taking the 100 back but Hasselblad don't have any right now so I will upgrade to the 100 once it comes out.
So if I got the 50mm lens that would look like a 40mm FL is that correct or am I barking up the wrong tree
On the 100mp back, the multiplication factor relative to 35mm full frame is 0.63 so 50 x 0.63 = 31.5mm
On the 50mp back which has a smaller image area, it is 50 x .8 = 40mm equivalent
These are rough because it's on the diagonal and since the aspect ratios are different it isn't exact but from an angle of view standpoint, which is measured diagonally, that's the equivalency.
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The 50mm II is a fabulous lens. It is 70% of the time on my camera. Avoid the 35mm, not so good.
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The 50mm II is a fabulous lens. It is 70% of the time on my camera. Avoid the 35mm, not so good.
Wide enough for Switzerland landscape. I guess I could stitch?
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For wide angles, if I were you I'd just get the 50mm II and stitch if you're purchasing. I've never shot with it but all the reviews and anecdotal evidence on forum posts suggest that it's great. It will work well on the 50c and the 100c you've got coming later.
Digital Transitions did a 100mp 35mm test (https://digitaltransitions.com/comparison-iq3-100mp-h5x-xf/) with the 35mm using a Hasselblad H5x and IQ3 100mp, which would probably approximate what performance you would expect to see on the H6D-100c you have on order. The 35mm didn't perform well compared the Phase One 35mm (which was recently redesigned and re-released as one of the first of their blue ring lenses). Granted it's only a few pictures with one copy (and performance would be better on the cropped 50c vs the 100c), etc etc etc but the results match up with what others say about the lens.
As others have stated, the 24mm and 28mm HCD do not cover the full image circle of the H6D-100c and I haven't seen any test shots with either of these on the 100c. They may very well be usable and produce great 70-90mp crops from the 100mp sensor, but I personally wouldn't want to buy into this combo if the 100c was my end goal until I see the 24mm and 28mm on the 100c in practice. I'm very anxious to see how the HCD lenses perform myself on the 100c as I have the 28mm and 35-90mm already. Purchasing either of these now for the 50c with the intent to use them on the H6D-100c may not be the best option. If I were you and you wanted to do something other than stitch with the 50mm II, I'd look into maybe renting the 24mm or 28mm for use with the H6D-50c for your trip if you can.
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For wide angles, if I were you I'd just get the 50mm II and stitch if you're purchasing. I've never shot with it but all the reviews and anecdotal evidence on forum posts suggest that it's great. It will work well on the 50c and the 100c you've got coming later.
Digital Transitions did a 100mp 35mm test (https://digitaltransitions.com/comparison-iq3-100mp-h5x-xf/) with the 35mm using a Hasselblad H5x and IQ3 100mp, which would probably approximate what performance you would expect to see on the H6D-100c you have on order. The 35mm didn't perform well compared the Phase One 35mm (which was recently redesigned and re-released as one of the first of their blue ring lenses). Granted it's only a few pictures with one copy (and performance would be better on the cropped 50c vs the 100c), etc etc etc but the results match up with what others say about the lens.
Are you surprised that they picked the one relative dog in the HC line of lenses as a basis for comparison?
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50mm mk II and done
stitching is fine, I do it all the time. Grab a Canon styled E3 cable release and maybe a generic L bracket - enjoy it, and expect some folks to ask questions :)
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Are you surprised that they picked the one relative dog in the HC line of lenses as a basis for comparison?
Haha not at all, but lets not turn this thread into a "Phase vs. Hasselblad" thread or about the dealers as OP is interested in lenses for the H system.
I'd like to upgrade myself up to an H6D-100c from my H4D at some point, and would love to see Hasseblad come out with a 35mm II to address what I see as a weak link in their H-system lens lineup. If they're announcing the 30mm XCD at Photokina, maybe we'll see some new wide options for the H6D-100c as well. Stitching in the interim with the 50mm II should work fine. I've been getting great results stitching with my A7R and 55mm to the point where I've skipped a wide angle for that system.
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Wide enough for Switzerland landscape. I guess I could stitch?
You could also rent the 28 or 24mm in Switzerland.