Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: BernardLanguillier on June 09, 2016, 05:41:08 am
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Dear Hassy users,
I was wondering what the current view is about the image quality of the 3 H wides lenses: 24, 28 and 35mm.
- sharpness
- micro-detail
- flare behavior
- ...
I used to own the 35mm and use it on an H1 many years ago near the end of my film days, but don't have a very accurate recollection of its qualities.
Also, as a side input, how bad is Phocus 3 on OSX with fast hardware?
thank you.
Regards,
Bernard
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I have the 28 with a H5D-50c and it is excellent in my opinion. Also, with this slightly smaller sensor (32.9x43.9mm) there is no vignetting with the 100mm LEE Filter system, even when using 3 filters stacked (e.g. 1 ND + 1 ND Grad + 1 Pol)
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On your last question, I ran a quick test last week on both Capture One 9 and Phocus 3 with RAW files on a recent Mac. They were both doing fine, except that for some reasons Phocus was MUCH slower than Capture One when exporting files in high res 16 bit TIFF.
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Wouldn't it be nice if you could rotate the polo separate from the NDs
The 28 has some flare issues, it also hates to be tilted upwards, too bad the HTS is 1.5x but overall the 28 kills, don't think you'll regret buying one. As for the newer 50mm iI you would be hard pressed to find better optics I use it with the 1.7x, the HTS and naked it's rock solid and extremely sharp! Auto focus is spot on, sorry don't own the 24 thought about it though shot one several times it's just not that much needed in my arsenal.
I will say stiching with the HTS and the 28 is flawless.
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Dear Hassy users,
I was wondering what the current view is about the image quality of the 3 H wides lenses: 24, 28 and 35mm.
- sharpness
- micro-detail
- flare behavior
- ...
I used to own the 35mm and use it on an H1 many years ago near the end of my film days, but don't have a very accurate recollection of its qualities.
Also, as a side input, how bad is Phocus 3 on OSX with fast hardware?
thank you.
Regards,
Bernard
In to phocus minor adjustments very minor out as tiff into LR a few tweeks into PS final touches back to LR and print or whatever very easy process quickly done. Yes does take some time to export to an external flash drive but not bad.
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http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=94852.0
The 35mm is the weakest of them, the oldest of them, and the only one that'll cover the full size 60/80/100mp chips. I love the 28mm, it works as a walk around lens quite well, while the 24mm will show the normal distortion of WA lenses.
-Joe
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I have the 28 with a H5D-50c and it is excellent in my opinion. Also, with this slightly smaller sensor (32.9x43.9mm) there is no vignetting with the 100mm LEE Filter system, even when using 3 filters stacked (e.g. 1 ND + 1 ND Grad + 1 Pol)
This is *really* good to know. Thank you!
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IMHO the 28mm is the best, the 35mm the weakest, but it does not match the 50mm II in sharpness and contrast.
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IMHO the 28mm is the best, the 35mm the weakest, but it does not match the 50mm II in sharpness and contrast.
Thanks. You mean that, although the 28mm is the best wide, it still isn't as good as the 50mmII?
Cheers,
Bernard
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Thanks. You mean that, although the 28mm is the best wide, it still isn't as good as the 50mmII?
Yes, sorry if not completely clear. Among the lenses I have / tried my ranking for sharpness and contrast (in declining order) is as follows :
HC 210mm
HC 50mm II
HC 28mm
HC 100mm
HC 35mm
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The 24 and 28mm do not cover the full 100 Mpix sensor. On a smaller sensor, they are both excellent. The 24mm, however, is quite slow.
The 35mm is much better than its reputation. It may lack a bit of contrast full open, but that clears nicely when closing down to f/8-f/11. It has a very nice rendering and bokeh full open.
There are reviews and samples of Hasselblad lenses in this forum: http://www.hasselbladdigitalforum.com/index.php?board=20.0
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There are reviews and samples of Hasselblad lenses in this forum: http://www.hasselbladdigitalforum.com/index.php?board=20.0
Thanks, very interesting resource indeed. I read most of the posts in that forum this weekend.
The one area that I find worrying is the very strong negative feedbacks about the colors generated by the H6D vs former CCD based backs.
Does somebody on this forum have first hand experience with the H6D and what is your view colorwise?
Thanks.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Actually the colours on the new backs are more accurate with a lower delta-e than the previous generation chips. The user in question was comparing with an older back (which had the wrong IR filter on it) that he had tweaked over time and become used to.
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Actually the colours on the new backs are more accurate with a lower delta-e than the previous generation chips. The user in question was comparing with an older back (which had the wrong IR filter on it) that he had tweaked over time and become used to.
Good to know, thanks Nick.
Now, are accurate colors a garantee of pleasant skin tones?
Cheers,
Bernard
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Hi Bernard
I was at the launch and we shot a pretty girl with nice skin, certainly looked good to me, I think Hasselblad have always rendered good skin.
I am however a food shooter not a fashion guy so best ask one of them.
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Hi Bernard
I was at the launch and we shot a pretty girl with nice skin, certainly looked good to me, I think Hasselblad have always rendered good skin.
I am however a food shooter not a fashion guy so best ask one of them.
Sure, Nick. thanks for the feedback.
I'd be very surprised indeed if Hassy released to the market a strategic product not meeting the expectation of their core shooter's community.
cheers,
Bernard
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Good to know, thanks Nick.
Now, are accurate colors a garantee of pleasant skin tones?
Delta E measurements on color accuracy are mostly meaningless for general-purpose photography. Delta E only makes sense for a colorimetric ("scene-referred") profile, which requires that there is no contrast curve applied, and you use this only for reproduction work. For any general-purpose photography you apply a "film curve" and then you throw out any Delta E numbers through the window. Still anyone knows that a film curve is required to make a normal scene to look realistic, linear curve looks flat and dull. There is however no standard to measure "perceptual accuracy", that is how realistic colors look after the film curve is applied.
In our color perception contrast and saturation is connected. If you increase contrast you must also increase saturation, otherwise colors will appear desaturated. But there are also other more subtle effects.
When it comes to "pleasing skin tones", my experience from color profile design is that the hue/saturation is only a one part of the problem, how the colors rolls off into the white point is very important for the look, especially for high key portraits. The shadow range of the curve also needs a small saturation push to not look desaturated, and then on top you can add "beutifying" modifications like compressing the skintone hue range to even out skin.
Profile designers available to photographers are generally good at making reproduction profiles, but has generally no strategy at all to convert that reproduction profile to a general purpose profile when a curve is applied, but instead just put a RGB or a RGB-HSV (DNG-style) curve on top which does increase saturation, but not in a perceptually accurate way, or even a pleasing way.
Commercial profiles are designed with inhouse tools, unavailable to users. It's very difficult to replicate and is an important part of the "trade secret" that sells cameras.
Personally I think Hasselblad is the best of medium format brands when it comes to profile design, but it's a matter of taste of course. Hasselblad's approach is to make a profile that focuses to a large extent on perceptual accuracy, and then add only very subtle subjective adjustments on top (plus a pretty strong gamut compression). If you look at say Phase One and Leaf they're much more about creating a "brand look", Phase One has their famous yellow cast for example. Their profiles are still very well-designed though, but with a distinct look which you may like or not. Worst are those that in practice are used together with third-party raw converters like Lightroom. Pentax, Leica(?) whose Lightroom profiles are pretty dreadful.
Hasselblad's colors are good also with the older CCDs which actually are quite difficult to work with due to Kodak-style subjective elements in the CFA. With the newer more neutral and extremely low noise CMOS sensors there's a better base to build color on, I haven't personally had a deep look on any of the newer Hassy backs but I have no reason to doubt that their color is still excellent.
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OK I should not have said "Delta E"
What I mean is that the colours I get from my 'blads are great.
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With the newer more neutral and extremely low noise CMOS sensors there's a better base to build color on, I haven't personally had a deep look on any of the newer Hassy backs but I have no reason to doubt that their color is still excellent.
Exactly as excellent as Phase One, Sony, Olympus or Pentax bodies if you use Lightroom :P
Edmund
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We recently did a comparison of the Hasselblad HC35mm/H5x/IQ3-100 to Phase One SK35mmLS/XF/IQ3-100. This will show you how the lens works with the Phase One 100MP sensor. Article and more sample images are available here: H5X/35mm/IQ3-100 & XF/35LS/IQ3-100 Comparison (https://digitaltransitions.com/comparison-iq3-100mp-h5x-xf/) .
-Lance
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We recently did a comparison of the Hasselblad HC35mm/H5x/IQ3-100 to Phase One SK35mmLS/XF/IQ3-100.
I'd hate to criticise the testing efforts of our resident Phase One dealers, but could we also have the same test for, say, the HC-50 II? ::)
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I'd hate to criticise the testing efforts of our resident Phase One dealers, but could we also have the same test for, say, the HC-50 II? ::)
Interesting test and thanks a lot for making this available.
I have to agree that you guys picked what may be the best Schneider lens against what may be the worst Hassy one. Price ratio is also close to 2:1. ;)
The Schneider is clearly better and excellent in absolute terms but the Hassy is performing a bit better than I thought it would based on my 10 years old memories.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Has anyone tested the Phase 28mm against the Hasselblad 28mm? Better yet the Phase Tilt/shift system against the HTS that would be great to see! :D
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I'm honestly interested to see how the HCD 35-90 would compare. I wonder how coverage is with the H5X and the 100mp sensor.
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Has anyone tested the Phase 28mm against the Hasselblad 28mm? Better yet the Phase Tilt/shift system against the HTS that would be great to see! :D
The Mamiya 28mm f4.5 was already a very average lens with my Mamiya ZD with an even worse price/performance ratio, I doubt it had improved with time... ;)
No doubt it must me the next lens in line at P1/Schneider for an upgrade, but when you consider the size and weight of the 35mm already, I seriously wonder whether they have the ability to build such a lens with a reasonably fast aperture. Odds are they would make it a 28mm f5.6 and that may be fine.
Same thing with Otus, the 28mm f1.4 is amazing, but it is already beyond what's reasonable size/weightwise for a 35mm lens. There will be no Otus 20mm f1.4.
Cheers,
Bernard
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I'm honestly interested to see how the HCD 35-90 would compare. I wonder how coverage is with the H5X and the 100mp sensor.
Joe it's the same coverage as with the 60MP so a pretty minor crop.
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One would expect the 35-90 coverage to be only restricted at the short end, probably between 35 and 40mm or so.
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I am however a food shooter not a fashion guy so best ask one of them.
Beautiful work! Congratulations!
http://www.hasselblad.com/us/our-world/how-nick-t-sells-the-food-dream
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Thanks JV!
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Beautiful work! Congratulations!
http://www.hasselblad.com/us/our-world/how-nick-t-sells-the-food-dream
Congrats indeed, great work, in particular the lighting is wonderfully natural looking!
I have to agree that the look of those H lenses is very nice too.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Congrats indeed, great work, in particular the lighting is wonderfully natural looking!
I have to agree that the look of those H lenses is very nice too.
Cheers,
Bernard
Bravo Nick - nice showcase!
Go ahead and blame the camera for the image quality, if you must :)
Edmund