Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: RoyH on May 09, 2016, 11:38:38 am
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Debated on added this to other threads on the Epson P800 or Canon Pro-1000 but in the end decided to start a new thread.
First, some information that may be of interest to current Epson 3880 owners.
As a hobbyist I have been printed with a Epson 3880 for just over 4 years with mostly flawless performance. About two weeks ago I started to get some minor ink blobs on my prints when using Photo Black and then the Photo Black would clog shortly thereafter. At first, a few nozzle checks or a cleaning would take care of the problem but then a few days later it would return. During a print session this last weekend the problem returned, much worst than before, major ink blobs and no amount of nozzle checks or cleaning would stop the problem. Doing some troubleshooting I have come to the conclusion that there is a failure in the ink delivery system for Photo Black. Searching the internet, including the LuLa forums, confirms there are quite a few documented cases of this failure with Photo Black and the printer much be serviced to replace the ink delivery system. I also contacted my local Epson Service Center this morning and they confirmed this is most likely the case, of course an actual diagnostic would be needed to confirm this but the service technician confirmed this has been one of their most common repairs on the 3880. What may be of most interest to other 3880 owners is that the 'ballpark' estimate I received to fix the printer, was that it would be approximately $450.00. Based on current rebates about half the cost of the new P800, making the decision to repair a difficult one. As a side note, the printer stills works flawlessly using Matte Black.
So the dilemma is do I repair (mostly likely not), stay with Epson and get the P800, or switch to Canon and get the PRO-1000 (a very viable alternative). As others have already commented in the reviews and other threads on the P800 and PRO-1000 this is not as easy a decision as may first appear, with both printers capable of producing excellent prints. The P800, while having some definite worthwhile upgrades, still continues to required switching of Photo and Matte black inks, an additional point of failure and ink usage, and possibly inferior paper handling/loading as a couple of points to consider. The Canon on the other hand doesn't have the issue with black ink switching and most reviews pointing out its better paper loading characteristics, it does have a couple of possible major downsides, higher initial cost and its paper length limitation at this time.
We all must weigh these factors and others in our own situation and make a decision, but I wonder what thought process others that have already made the choice or are considering the choice went through in their decision?
I thank everyone ahead of time for you thoughts and input.
Roy
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Just for the record, all of the clogs I have had in 2 1/2 years of owning a 3880 have been with the PK black.
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My 3880 rarely clogs but usually, it's Cyan, not the PK.
I *rarely* switch blacks (fear of the valve failure) but yesterday I did a wiper/purge clean and the head was fairly clogged after that (paper towel under the head) which an autoclean fixed.
Anyway, if you're feelin lucky and the force is with you, you can get the part that they use (the entire ink assembly) for between $135-175 and do it yourself if you're reasonably mechanical. The manuals (PM me) are available.
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My 3880 did the same thing. If you search around you will find it's pretty common, and seems to be happening more often as the printers age. The repair was simple and pretty cheap. I ordered the part (Ink supply 1518586 http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.XEpson+1518586.TRS2&_nkw=Epson+1518586&_sacat=0) from an ebay seller in china and it arrived in a few weeks. I think it took me a few hours to replace, but if I were to do it again it would be a 45 minute repair. The printer has been working great since then.
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Would you be willing/interested in writing up some form of document on how to do that, pitfalls, etc etc?
I think it would be helpful to quite a number of people.
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Would you be willing/interested in writing up some form of document on how to do that, pitfalls, etc etc?
I think it would be helpful to quite a number of people.
I'll see what I can do. I wish I had thought to document the process with photos. 90% of the job is removing and replacing covers. I just followed the service manual, which I found online. In short: the ink supply is sold as a unit and it consists of the cartridge holders, chip readers, tubing, dampers and connectors to the head. So there's not much skill needed to replace it and it was a very clean job. I don't think I got any ink on me or the pads I put down. Since it's all new it required refilling the ink lines, so it wasted a bit of all inks. I'll see if I can find the links I used for the manual and the procedure to refill the lines soon.
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Thanks,
I'm pretty sure I already have the service manual (and more), I just have had no need to delve into it (knocks wood). Did you need the magic software in order to reinitialize the printer (ie. refill the lines?)
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So, if you buy another printer you can have one for PK (either Pro-1000 or P800) and the old one for MK. I know people who keep Epson for matt papers (7900) and also have Canon for glossy-type mediums (8400). No switching.
The other option could be conversion of your 3880 to B&W printer with Piezography or MIS.
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Anyway, if you're feelin lucky and the force is with you, you can get the part that they use (the entire ink assembly) for between $135-175 and do it yourself if you're reasonably mechanical. The manuals (PM me) are available.
Thanks, I certainly feel that I'm mechanical proficient enough that I could do a repair like this. It's just do I feel it's worth the trouble based on the age of the printer and the fact better printers being available. By the way, that is the assembly the repair center said would need to be replaced. I figured their labor costs would be about double their parts costs.
Roy
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So, if you buy another printer you can have one for PK (either Pro-1000 or P800) and the old one for MK. I know people who keep Epson for matt papers (7900) and also have Canon for glossy-type mediums (8400). No switching.
The other option could be conversion of your 3880 to B&W printer with Piezography or MIS.
That is exactly what I have been considering over the last 24 hours. Keeping the 3880 for Matte for the time being, I still have a full set of spare carts for the 3880, and getting one of the new printers for PK.
Decisions, decisions... :-)
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the 'funny' thing is that somewhere, Epson actually suggests swapping that entire assembly out every couple of years (like 2 or so).
And only the P800 or PRO-1000 are 'better' but then you're spending $1000-1200 vs. 135+ (and then account for any money lost due to 3880 carts you cant use or sell)
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Debated on added this to other threads on the Epson P800 or Canon Pro-1000 but in the end decided to start a new thread.
First, some information that may be of interest to current Epson 3880 owners.
I thank everyone ahead of time for you thoughts and input.
Roy
FWIW, Epson USA currently has refurbished 3880s available for $895. I think that also includes free shipping.
Don Bryant
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I actually bought the P800 at the same time I ordered the part. I felt I was gambling $140 that it would fix the problem and didn't want to miss out on the year end rebate on the P800. So I used up the 3880 ink as best I could and then switched the 3880 over to Piezography.
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does it come w/ full carts and warranty? it's not that great a discount off what was it's street price.
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Thanks,
I'm pretty sure I already have the service manual (and more), I just have had no need to delve into it (knocks wood). Did you need the magic software in order to reinitialize the printer (ie. refill the lines?)
See: http://www.inkjetmall.com/tech/content.php?151-Initial-Fill-Procedures-for-Epson-Pro-Model-Printers I didn't want to buy the Adjustment program and used the 3-4 Power Clean Cycles from the printer control panel. If I were to do it again I'd probably buy the program and run it under Parallels.
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does it come w/ full carts and warranty? it's not that great a discount off what was it's street price.
Comes with carts but I believe the warranty is limited to 90 days. I've purchased 3 refurbished printers from Epson over the years and knock on wood never had a problem.
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Comes with carts but I believe the warranty is limited to 90 days. I've purchased 3 refurbished printers from Epson over the years and knock on wood never had a problem.
But with current rebates you can get a brand new P800 for $895, Retail $1195 - Standard Rebate $250 - Printer Upgrade Rebate $50 = $895.
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But with current rebates you can get a brand new P800 for $895, Retail $1195 - Standard Rebate $250 - Printer Upgrade Rebate $50 = $895.
I'd rather replace the 3880 with a 3880 since I have my workflow dialed in with that printer, especially since I use it for printing digital negatives. But the $895 price is attractive for the P800.
Don
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My old 3800 develop the dripping ink issue. I replaced it with a 3880.
Question: Has it been determined with any certainty that the ink drip problem is the result of:
A) Too much MK-PK ink switching(the valve is poorly made, and fails from being used)
B) Not enough MK-PK ink switching(the less-used ink...MK or PK... sludges up and cause clogging, then leaking)
Or...that..
C)Frequency of MK-PK ink switching has nothing to do with the ink drip failure.
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LGeb... same situation with my 3880..considering piezo... does this use both matte and photo black stations?
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I've never seen/heard of any root cause analysis of the valve problem from the user community but it looks like there are multiple possible failure mechanisms.
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Having investigated the variety of options over the last few days, here is want I've decided to do.
I looked into getting the part (ink supply system) and found several possible suppliers with pricing around $145.00 and with shipping would total about $200. Looking at the service the manual repair looks straight forward and doable but I have decided I cannot find justification with putting more money into a 5 year old printer.
I was already beginning to think about moving to the P800 even before this failure so that is want I have decided to do. I found the printer for $1149 and with the $300 of Epson rebates the net cost will be $849. I will continue to use the 3880 for Matte printing until my full set of ink runs out and then dispose of the 3880 at that time.
Best of luck to all having similar issues and decisions to make.
Roy
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My old 3800 develop the dripping ink issue. I replaced it with a 3880.
Question: Has it been determined with any certainty that the ink drip problem is the result of:
A) Too much MK-PK ink switching(the valve is poorly made, and fails from being used)
B) Not enough MK-PK ink switching(the less-used ink...MK or PK... sludges up and cause clogging, then leaking)
Or...that..
C)Frequency of MK-PK ink switching has nothing to do with the ink drip failure.
I rarely switched inks. So my guess is either B or C. The fact that my MK ink continued to work (not leak) leads me to vote for option C, but I really haven't studied the mechanism to see if that makes sense.
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LGeb... same situation with my 3880..considering piezo... does this use both matte and photo black stations?
It depends. I bought the version that does, but you can go MK, PK or both. I haven't done much MK printing. I probably should have saved a few bucks and installed flush in the MK channel. I'm now going to force myself to print some matte images since I worry about ink settling in the lines.
If you go with MK only I think you put flush in the PK and Gloss Optimizer lines.
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Having investigated the variety of options over the last few days, here is want I've decided to do.
I looked into getting the part (ink supply system) and found several possible suppliers with pricing around $145.00 and with shipping would total about $200. Looking at the service the manual repair looks straight forward and doable but I have decided I cannot find justification with putting more money into a 5 year old printer.
I was already beginning to think about moving to the P800 even before this failure so that is want I have decided to do. I found the printer for $1149 and with the $300 of Epson rebates the net cost will be $849. I will continue to use the 3880 for Matte printing until my full set of ink runs out and then dispose of the 3880 at that time.
Best of luck to all having similar issues and decisions to make.
Roy
You can get the part shipped from China for about $145, but I understand being hesitant to undertake the investment in an old printer. When you get ready to dispose of it, offer it here instead of trashing it. So far the P800 ink chips haven't been broken so the 3880 may be the last 17" Epson that you can print Piezography on.
I really like my P800, especially the new black inks. I do not like its new paper path. Instead of using the rear feed you need to use the front feed for thicker media. I've had it mangle a few sheets, whereas the 3880 never did that even when it didn't feed straight. I've printed fewer than 25 sheets with the front feed and I've had it destroy two of them (one was a sheet cut from a roll, so not perfectly flat and I'll take the blame for that one). That could get expensive. It's also much slower. I'd say it's a poor trade off for the ability run roll paper with no cutter.
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If canon was smart, they'd roll out a PRO-1000 MkII right quick w/ roll option and no length limit. They'd eat Epson's lunch.
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I rarely switched inks. So my guess is either B or C. The fact that my MK ink continued to work (not leak) leads me to vote for option C, but I really haven't studied the mechanism to see if that makes sense.
I rarely switched inks on my 3800 that acquired the drip problem, so it's B or C for
me as well. When the problem first appeared, there were drips of color ink on one or two prints. But that soon became black only. I have no idea which black, however.
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If canon was smart, they'd roll out a PRO-1000 MkII right quick w/ roll option and no length limit. They'd eat Epson's lunch.
So right. Just can't understand their logic in coming out with such a neutered replacement for the great, but ink-set dated 5100 with all the pro paper handling options you could want.
Pete
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MY 4 year old 3880 just suddenly developed the dripping black ink problem. Tried magic bullet cleaning solution but didn't work. My Epson 3800 only lasted 2 years and developed the same problem.
For a change I have just purchased a Canon ImagePrograf Pro-1000. So far a refreshing change as there is no evidence of printer star wheels on saturated black backgrounds which all of my Epson printers have shown regards of the platen gap settings and drying time - to be fair the marks were only visible on the Epson if the print was turned obliquely to the light and on black or very dark featureless backgrounds. Only time will tell how long the newly designed print head will last but at least I can replace it!
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Did the model/partnumber of the head say PF-10 ?
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If canon was smart, they'd roll out a PRO-1000 MkII right quick w/ roll option and no length limit. They'd eat Epson's lunch.
Relaxing the length limit is the easier part and can happen more quickly than redesigning those parts of the machine and its firmware that would need to be done for incorporating a roll option. They would need to assess whether it is worth the investment (which would be substantial in terms of redesign, testing, factory production line tooling and roll-out, marketing, software, firmware, documentation, etc.) relative to the number of roll holders and additional printers they would sell. And Canon is setting high standards for proof of concept in these new machines. If they do a good enough job on relaxing the length limitation, users would be able to print panos at least up to several feet long without a bespoke roll holder - there are ways.