Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: eronald on March 19, 2016, 01:41:04 pm
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Pentax has an option on the 100MP Sony sensor.
Hassy cannot be far behind ... or ahead.
I would assume that a Pentax body would be cheaper than the Phase One back :)
http://pentaxrumors.com/2016/03/17/the-next-pentax-645-medium-format-camera-will-most-liekly-have-a-100mp-sony-sensor/
Edmund
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How good is the Pentax 645z now compared to the Phase one and Hasselblad?
I saw they had some problems in the beginning, but is it now close to the other 50mp?
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Sensor quality, yes. Iso wise even better. When it comes to lenses I'm not sure if they would handle a full frame 100Mp
Christopher Hauser
[email protected]
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But what about the software?
Do they have something close to Capture one?
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But what about the software?
Do they have something close to Capture one?
In a word no. LR works but C1 never will per PhaseOne.
I also agree Pentax is light on optics for 100MP. Just like they are with their latest 35mm full frame camera.
Paul C
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But what about the software?
Do they have something close to Capture one?
C1 seems to be the best tethered session software around; if that is what is making money for you, then that is what you should get. But if one is looking for a hi-rez landscape camera, then the Pentax gives unbeatable value for money with eg. Irident Raw as a converter, and Lightroom for cataloging/printing. Now their body has been updated, Phase have a very solid product but they are also coming in at 3x the Pentax price and some people may prefer to get a car and a camera for the price of a camera :)
http://www.iridientdigital.com
Edmund
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I disagree. The Pentax 645 system is, unfortunately, a complete FAIL. It's an awesome camera, with an awesome sensor, with horrible lenses. I know for sure from what I've seen that a 5DSR with an Otus will easily beat the Pentax 645, *especially* in the corners. Pentax might have some decent lenses or two, but none that will give you edge to edge sharpness.
It's unfortunate, because I would probably own one if it wasn't for their lack of quality lenses.
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Thats interesting. And none of the other MF lenses are usable on the Pentax?
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Phase have a very solid product but they are also coming in at 3x the Pentax price
The Credo comes in at 3x the Pentax price to be more specific, the Phase One branded back is much more expensive...
I disagree. The Pentax 645 system is, unfortunately, a complete FAIL. It's an awesome camera, with an awesome sensor, with horrible lenses. I know for sure from what I've seen that a 5DSR with an Otus will easily beat the Pentax 645, *especially* in the corners. Pentax might have some decent lenses or two, but none that will give you edge to edge sharpness.
It's unfortunate, because I would probably own one if it wasn't for their lack of quality lenses.
I am no sure whether I buy this... The lenses appear to work for other longtime MF users like Michael Reichmann...
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Thats interesting. And none of the other MF lenses are usable on the Pentax?
IIRC The Pentax 645 System has the lens mount with the Longest Flange Focal Distance of all the 645 Systems. It is about 71mm while the Mamiya 645 (PhaseOne) mount is 63mm. You really can't adapt lenses from a longer mount to a shorter mount so basically with the Pentax 645 System you are limited to lenses from larger formats (Hasselblad V (6x6) and up). The Hasselblad H mount is ~62mm and the Leica S mount is just ~53mm! so it is the best for adapting lenses although its ironic since the Leica S has an amazing lens line but it is definitely a plus.
Of course with a digital back you can adapt just about any lens from any format.
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There is a reason you see a lot of the Rolleiflex lenses adapted for the Pentax.... But it is possible. The lens mount to film plane on the Rollei 6000 and Hy6 is over 80mm
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Hi,
Some lenses are good, especially at least one of the zoom lenses is good. Macro 90 is great, too, AFAIK. Question is what happen on full frame. Pentax 645 used to be adaptable to Pentax 67 which also has some good lenses.
I have seen many excellent images from Pentax 645D and 645Z, so I would say that it is probably OK, but you need to pick your lenses.
I don't think we have a 100 MP option on 24x36mm at this time, except when stitching.
Best regards
Erik
I disagree. The Pentax 645 system is, unfortunately, a complete FAIL. It's an awesome camera, with an awesome sensor, with horrible lenses. I know for sure from what I've seen that a 5DSR with an Otus will easily beat the Pentax 645, *especially* in the corners. Pentax might have some decent lenses or two, but none that will give you edge to edge sharpness.
It's unfortunate, because I would probably own one if it wasn't for their lack of quality lenses.
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I disagree. The Pentax 645 system is, unfortunately, a complete FAIL. It's an awesome camera, with an awesome sensor, with horrible lenses. I know for sure from what I've seen that a 5DSR with an Otus will easily beat the Pentax 645, *especially* in the corners. Pentax might have some decent lenses or two, but none that will give you edge to edge sharpness.
It's unfortunate, because I would probably own one if it wasn't for their lack of quality lenses.
I'm a wedding guy so corner sharpness is right down my list - but since you ask. The new 35mm is ridiculously sharp yes even at the edges. Pretty sure the 90 is as well.
Other lenses are very decent stopped down such as the 120/150mm. How they would go on a larger chip i'm not sure - but on the existing 1.3x crop they all to me work very well.
I'd back the 645 with 35mm against a 5dsr with the 28mm otus.
No doubt at all phase one has a better lens line up but to say the pentax has horrible lenses is massively exaggerated & to be honest, nonsense.
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Phase probably makes $15K or so profit out of EVERY 100MP system sold (10 for the dealer as fee and negotiation margin, 10 for costs, 10-20 for profit). 20K profit is probably what Pentax and their dealers gets from a large bunch of camera sales. So as long as Phase manages to convince *a few* people that their system and camera is somehow 'better', and those people or institutions have money, their boutique pricing strategy will work, and they will stay decently profitable.
Interestingly, on this forum, now the XF is out and they're all using Sony CMOS chips, all of Phase, Hassy and Pentax seem to have mostly satisfied customers when it comes to actual image quality and camera functionality. Few real complaints. The same goes for the Leica, although people still cannot get the shutter speeds they'd like due to low ISO.
Edmund
I'm a wedding guy so corner sharpness is right down my list - but since you ask. The new 35mm is ridiculously sharp yes even at the edges. Pretty sure the 90 is as well.
Other lenses are very decent stopped down such as the 120/150mm. How they would go on a larger chip i'm not sure - but on the existing 1.3x crop they all to me work very well.
I'd back the 645 with 35mm against a 5dsr with the 28mm otus.
No doubt at all phase one has a better lens line up but to say the pentax has horrible lenses is massively exaggerated & to be honest, nonsense.
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Hi,
Some lenses are good, especially at least one of the zoom lenses is good. Macro 90 is great, too, AFAIK. Question is what happen on full frame. Pentax 645 used to be adaptable to Pentax 67 which also has some good lenses.
I have seen many excellent images from Pentax 645D and 645Z, so I would say that it is probably OK, but you need to pick your lenses.
I don't think we have a 100 MP option on 24x36mm at this time, except when stitching.
Best regards
Erik
Jim Kasson has an interesting Quiver Plot (http://blog.kasson.com/?p=5920) on his web site demonstrating the relative advantages in MTF 50 system resolution from increasing either the MTF of the lens or the sensor pitch. See the plot for the simulated Otus with no AA filter. The Y coordinate is the pixel pitch and the x axis is the f/stop, which can substitute for the MTF of the lens. Opening up the lens increases the MTF, which could represent the resolution of a given lens at a given aperture.
A quiver plot pointing to the left indicates a relative advantage of increasing the irresolution of the lens, while a vector pointing downward indicates the the advantage is increasing the resolution of the sensor. The full frame 100 MP sensor has a pixel pitch of 4.6 microns.
The take home message is that with existing lenses for the pentax, increasing the sensor resolution would improve the image. MTFs multiply, and the resolution is not limited to the weakest link in the system.
Bill
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I disagree. The Pentax 645 system is, unfortunately, a complete FAIL. It's an awesome camera, with an awesome sensor, with horrible lenses. I know for sure from what I've seen that a 5DSR with an Otus will easily beat the Pentax 645, *especially* in the corners. Pentax might have some decent lenses or two, but none that will give you edge to edge sharpness.
It's unfortunate, because I would probably own one if it wasn't for their lack of quality lenses.
I'm not a landscape guy, but in my experience, the Pentax is a wonderful performer for commercial photography. I find that most MFD cameras have their share of issues, as do Dslrs (I also own Canon gear). Personally, I don't see a need for more megapixels - at least in regards to commercial advertising. I would much prefer Pentax, and every other MFD brand to extend the autofocus points across the length of the sensor.
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I'm not a landscape guy, but in my experience, the Pentax is a wonderful performer for commercial photography. I find that most MFD cameras have their share of issues, as do Dslrs (I also own Canon gear). Personally, I don't see a need for more megapixels - at least in regards to commercial advertising. I would much prefer Pentax, and every other MFD brand to extend the autofocus points across the length of the sensor.
The AF focus points should be all over the sensor once they go mirrorless ... I'd expect this to happen at the latest at the next round of sensors.
Edmund
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I think we all agree that I have more than my fair share of especially bad moods and I apologize all around if I've upset too many people with them - this time round, for a change, it looks like J is having one of his own bad mood times - I'm not in a position to get upset over that.
The Kasson quiver plot -aka vector field diagram- looks both interesting and somehow unsatisfying; I don't know why I feel it is unsatisfying - somehow there is something else I'd rather like him to tell me but I cannot quit figure out what it is that I would like to see graphed. I think this feeling is one I often got at science conferences, when listening to presentations, and it led me to write papers of my own that illuminated other aspects of the data my colleagues were showing, but it sometimes took me a lot of time to figure out what I wanted to look at. Maybe someone else here who is smarter than me, or faster, can chime in on what they would like the graph to show?
Edmund
I've got enroald blocked because he comments though doesn't work under pressure so I have no way knowing what he says, but usual it's the same thing.
Cheaper cameras, overpriced phtogtogs, it's words from someone that doesn't produce, doesn't work in the industry.
Until he he shows work worth interesting it's just negative noise, not use.
He's smart but doesn't buy in. Just negative spouts like he wants great artist to lose not succeed, to bring people to his level.
Sick S*&t.
He thinks he has a following but it's only based on his replies from others. The ignore button is my friend.
IMO
BC
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* Blaming people for posts they have written, done.
* Blaming people for posts they have written but you didn't read, done.
* Blaming people for posts they will make in the future, ongoing.
Come on guys, don't let lovers get you down :-X
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There is a reason you see a lot of the Rolleiflex lenses adapted for the Pentax.... But it is possible. The lens mount to film plane on the Rollei 6000 and Hy6 is over 80mm
Hi Eric... despite the flange distance, Pentax 645 is the "black ship" as far as adapters are concerned... Pentax lenses have mechanical aperture control which operates much the same as Nikkor (before the latest "E-series") lenses do, i.e. with an electronically controlled lever on the camera... This means that a possible Rollei to Pentax adapter can't be realised because the (Pentax) camera can't communicate with an electronic aperture at all (up to now)...
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I count 100=100 & 50=50, I also know that math adding hasn't change from ancient Greece either.... But... wait a minute... I KNOW I LOVE this song.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4GLAKEjU4w
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J,
Maybe we're all losing track of *the fun*. I've become unpleasant as some personal issues closed in. You've become stressed out (you say so) as the jobs got larger. And this place kind of is (was) for off moments, for fun. Or learning or sharing or whatever, but still it's supposed to be fun. We all used to agree that the camera doesn't matter, just the image. The cameras are real good nowadays Sony or Phase or Canon or whatever, and we mostly know how to use them and all that software crap, and it was a hard learn, and we needed a tech forum, and some like you progressed more than others like me, but maybe we need to get back the sense of fun. And one aspect of this is to be careful not to destroy a community spirit we spent the best part of 10 years building.
I like Theo's link.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4GLAKEjU4w
Edmund
Your right, but you know in the past whenever you asked something I complied.
Then I realized that some of your posts seemed to be to only agitate rather than educate or share and that I didn't understand.
You can dislike my profession or better put my reason for being, but don't walk into the vatican and tell a priest he's not relevant. It just doesn't go over well.
I don't know what you understand about my industry, but I work the world and overall people who study, learn and perfect their work I have respect for.
Like Ulf and the broncolor thread. He obviously is invested in the brand but rather than diss me for my issues, he offered to help. That I respect and he doesn't need to give the time or even a mention.
Bad mood . . . no, just tired right now of the huge workload.
I should never post after working through a weekend pulling 20 hour days.
Even working those hours I love this forum enough to take a break and answer anyones questions.
But I should be better, so I'll step up and apologize but well . . . you know how I feel.
Peace out.
IMO
BC
I ain't no saint and expect nothing, but spent an hour working on a response to a photographer on this forum who was asking something that was very hard to explain and I wanted to get it right.
I like that type of community, not one that just disses everything just because they can type.
If my perception is wrong, I will stand corrected.
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Again... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4GLAKEjU4w
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I think your probably right and I shouldn't post when exhausted, but it's a break, even late at night, though it should be less serious, but also respectful.
The respectful part is something I should remember.
BC
J,
You're right I've behaved like an a** these past few years - but even more worrying in a way is the fact that I -and I think you too- lost track of the fun part. Or at least we've stopped *posting* about the fun part.
Edmund
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I think I shall continue the DJ job here ;) ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pey29CLID3I
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Or, we could all get dressed up, insulated, like the Gimp and feel no pain... or much of anything else, in the end.
It's like politics: I get suckered in and then wish I'd ignored the red rags because there is never a satisfying conclusion, just another vicious circle of pointless argument and another permanent foe.
Oh well, off to buy a lottery ticket, another goddam coffee I shouldn't have, and try for some more snaps.
Rob C
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What the making off really looks like, feels like for the rest of us ...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/in-sight/wp/2016/03/22/surreal-photos-from-the-alternate-universe-of-bangladeshs-film-industry/?hpid=hp_no-name_photo-story-a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory
Edmund
Or, we could all get dressed up, insulated, like the Gimp and feel no pain... or much of anything else, in the end.
It's like politics: I get suckered in and then wish I'd ignored the red rags because there is never a satisfying conclusion, just another vicious circle of pointless argument and another permanent foe.
Oh well, off to buy a lottery ticket, another goddam coffee I shouldn't have, and try for some more snaps.
Rob C
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What the making off really looks like, feels like for the rest of us ...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/in-sight/wp/2016/03/22/surreal-photos-from-the-alternate-universe-of-bangladeshs-film-industry/?hpid=hp_no-name_photo-story-a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory
Edmund
I love those situations where a hundred guys - sometimes a token girl (probably not "token girl" who loved sailing, had a Rolex, and used to post in LuLa...) - surround somebody with their guns all pointed at that person. One quick duck, and the guns would go off, eliminating all the gunmen in the circle! (It says so in the IS manual.) And that happens in Hollywood movies!
Rob C