Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: eronald on March 02, 2016, 11:55:18 pm
-
http://www.fujirumors.com/medium-format-fuji-50mp-sensor-available-2017-new-source/
-
http://www.fujirumors.com/medium-format-fuji-50mp-sensor-available-2017-new-source/
ITS COMING. Built around the 50MP Sony chip. It will be an interesting development. Really interested in the lenses.
Paul C
-
Will it be mirrorless? If it's mirrorless and priced like a Pentax 645z it could be a great "poor man's digital back" for an Actus or Universalis, just like the A7r-II is today for the even poorer people ;)
The flange distance of the 645z is huuuuge, but if it's reasonably small in a mirrorless body it could be about equivalent in usability to a digital back on the Actus/Universalis as this sensor likes to have some distance to the lens anyway.
-
I think mirrorless is a given. Also, I would expect $4K pricing since the Sony chip should be at $400 or so by 2017. Unless they use a fullframe chip. This whole thing only makes financial sense if the UI from an exisring model is reused, so look at the new Fujis to see whether you can live with the menus ...
Edmund
Will it be mirrorless? If it's mirrorless and priced like a Pentax 645z it could be a great "poor man's digital back" for an Actus or Universalis, just like the A7r-II is today for the even poorer people ;)
The flange distance of the 645z is huuuuge, but if it's reasonably small in a mirrorless body it could be about equivalent in usability to a digital back on the Actus/Universalis as this sensor likes to have some distance to the lens anyway.
-
Hi Paul,
Could be really right stuff… Fuji knows a lot about doing things right…
Best regards
Erik
ITS COMING. Built around the 50MP Sony chip. It will be an interesting development. Really interested in the lenses.
Paul C
-
If Fuji makes a mirrorless CMOS MF camera, I might get rid of my 35mm kit completely.
-
I would be surprised if Hassy don't do a mirrorless cooperation. Having their camera/lens subcontractor as competitor is life-threatening. They might do an identical body with a different CFA and tethering software - Fuji owns a big marriage studio market in Japan.
I find Fuji lenses a bit of an acquired taste, loved the Zeiss look.
Edmund
-
Hi,
That's a good point… We need to wait and see!
Best regards
Erik
I would be surprised if Hassy don't do a mirrorless cooperation. Having their camera/lens subcontractor as competitor is life-threatening. They might do an identical body with a different CFA and tethering software - Fuji owns a big marriage studio market in Japan.
Edmund
-
If it's mirrorless, it's total win.
-
Hi,
I can agree on all points…
Best regards
Erik
Mirrorless is the only thing that could get me back into MFD.
That said I worry about the size of the lenses. I would also question the advantages of such a camera over the current full frame competition.
Time will tell.
-
Mirrorless is the only thing that could get me back into MFD.
That said I worry about the size of the lenses. I would also question the advantages of such a camera over the full frame competition.
Time will tell.
Mirrorless can be very compact and use compact lenses with small flange distance as there is no need for the mirror space. Look at the A7R2.
-
Mirrorless would mean no AF, right?
Cheers,
Bernard
-
Will it be mirrorless? If it's mirrorless and priced like a Pentax 645z it could be a great "poor man's digital back" for an Actus or Universalis, just like the A7r-II is today for the even poorer people ;)
The flange distance of the 645z is huuuuge, but if it's reasonably small in a mirrorless body it could be about equivalent in usability to a digital back on the Actus/Universalis as this sensor likes to have some distance to the lens anyway.
Yes, its mirrorless.
Imagine an X-T1 but a bit larger.
New line of lenses as well like the X system lenses.
They figured they already have the compact system in the APS-C X system so might as well go big since full frame is too close in size. The 50mp Sony CMOS sensor makes it possible while keeping price very reasonable.
Fuji is great at designing and making lenses. Fast.
Will it be cheap? Dunno but the X system while affordable is priced a bit higher than others.
-
Mirrorless would mean no AF, right?
Cheers,
Bernard
You lost me? Why would mirrorless not have AF?
Paul C
-
Mirrorless would mean no AF, right?
Cheers,
Bernard
Depends on the sensor. I believe any large sensor Sony makes from now on will have on-chip Phase-contrast pixels. And then there is phase contrast and the focus-from-defocus technique Pana uses on the GH4, which is really fast.
Edmund
-
I'm lost - where has Fuji confirmed this development?
-
Large aperture lenses get large and heavy by necessity, small aperture lenses can be small and light (like classic leica M rangefinder lenses for example) but is probably a problem if you want to have good auto-focus, and is probably also not wise from a popularity standpoint as "short depth of field" is a thing people would expect from a medium format camera.
Trading small aperture and large vignetting against a sharp distortion free, small and light optics is what I did in my tech cam but I think that type of tradeoff is dead in a modern camera due to the above reasons.
-
http://www.fujirumors.com/medium-format-fuji-50mp-sensor-available-2017-new-source/
Seesaw ;D
"We are not really interested in the medium format; our intention, for now, is to focus on the lenses."
http://www.fujirumors.com/fuji-manager-were-not-really-interested-in-medium-format-focus-on-lenses-x-pro2-review-who-says-theres-no-iso-improvement-must-be-smoking-something-good/
-
I agree it's a seesaw and probably will be for a while. Fuji has quite a few projects to get out this year, hopefully the X-T2 and a few more primes.
More than likely if nothing is shown at photokina in Sept, it won't be happening for a while.
Over the past 3 years, I have followed the fujirumors site pretty closely and the owner seems well informed and most times the repeated rumors happen eventually.
Fuji's biggest hurdle to me is the optics, and if they go mirrorless, (which I assume they will), it will mean a lot of new glass. This would also mean they they jump the full frame 35mm market totally. Fuji commented over a year ago that they were not interested in full frame 35mm at the time. So maybe they feel the mirrorless 50MP chip gives them a bigger market. Hard to tell.
As I have stated many times, on this site and others, for my way of thinking, Fuji's single largest issue is the lack of good raw support for their x-trans chips. LR has issues as does C1 and from the raw files I have seen from the X-Pro2, the same issues still exist. So I would rather see Fuji step up and work with closer with Adobe and or Phase One or both and give the current technology the boost it needs.
Paul C
-
Fuji's biggest hurdle to me is the optics, and if they go mirrorless, (which I assume they will), it will mean a lot of new glass.
Launching a new body with a new lens mount and a very incomplete lens line-up (1-3 lenses) has almost become the new trend... and companies even seem to get away with it as well...
This would also mean they they jump the full frame 35mm market totally. Fuji commented over a year ago that they were not interested in full frame 35mm at the time. So maybe they feel the mirrorless 50MP chip gives them a bigger market. Hard to tell.
The 35mm market is too competitive, I don't believe Fuji would stand a chance...
As I have stated many times, on this site and others, for my way of thinking, Fuji's single largest issue is the lack of good raw support for their x-trans chips. LR has issues as does C1 and from the raw files I have seen from the X-Pro2, the same issues still exist.
C1 does a fairly decent job nowadays IMHO, not as good as Iridient but still very good. Not sure why LR can't get it right...
-
Good point on the 35mm DSLR space as it's rather full. It makes perfect sense to jump right to the 50MP Sony chip and create a mirrorless EVF solution.
With C1 I find I cannot get the fine details out of the files without excessive sharpening. And LR seems just the opposite as pushing details brings out massive over edge sharpening and the painterly look. Especially on landscape shots with lots of trees and leaves. On portrait and buildings I don't have as much as issue.
Paul C
-
Launching a new body with a new lens mount and a very incomplete lens line-up (1-3 lenses) has almost become the new trend... and companies even seem to get away with it as well...
The 35mm market is too competitive, I don't believe Fuji would stand a chance...
C1 does a fairly decent job nowadays IMHO, not as good as Iridient but still very good. Not sure why LR can't get it right...
I'd be content with 50/80/150.
Aperture handles xtrans well enough. At least for the miniature sensors, not sure how any of them would do with a full frame 100MP from a good lens. Hopefully we shall get to find out.
-
What is the reason for xtrans? With my info because of moire and no low pass filter...
Do you have a lot of moire on the existing 50mpix sensor from Sony with bayer pattern?. I think not.
After this there is no reason for xtrans color filter pattern on a Sony 50 mpix.
You need xtrans for low mpix sensors e.g. 16mpix because of the size. This is the reason why there is no problem with d810 or Sony a7rii without low pass filter.
The same with higher digital back pattern.
-
What is the reason for xtrans? With my info because of moire and no low pass filter...
Do you have a lot of moire on the existing 50mpix sensor from Sony with bayer pattern?. I think not.
After this there is no reason for xtrans color filter pattern on a Sony 50 mpix.
You need xtrans for low mpix sensors e.g. 16mpix because of the size. This is the reason why there is no problem with d810 or Sony a7rii without low pass filter.
The same with higher digital back pattern.
Xtrans is mostly for marketing purposes IMHO.
Th nw MF Fuji camera will most likely not be xtrans.
Fuji is arguably the best at designing and making lenses, fast, so I do not see it as too much of an issue for them to develop 3-4 primes for the new system. They probably have a few ready to go already. The MF customer is different and generally does not demand as large a range of focal lengths as the user of smaller formats.
I agree that the 35mm is too crowded and close to their APS-C system for them to develop a 35mm full frame system. That is why they went with the larger chip.
-
Fuji has made plenty of rangefinder 6x7 and 6x9 lenses in the past (which were also very compact), this will be nothing new to them.
I guess a good starting range, considering the crop of the 50MP Sony sensor, would be 45mm f2.8, 65mm f2 and 110mm f2.8 (equivalent to 35, 50 and 85).
The big question would be: lens or focal plane shutter? The first would make the system quite interesting for studio work.
-
I would like, personally, a RF style camera with fixed lens, very simple, either Manual Focus (with help) or contrast AF if compact enough. A 40mm f5.6, a 80mm f2.8 would be good for a start (with 30x45mm sensor).
-
A MF X100-style camera would be nice
-
why suddently all the sensors are from sony? where are the competitions?
-
Sony is the only one making those large sensors at a reasonable price. If you look at the market you can even find 59x59mm sensors, but resolution and price are not up to spec as those are very niche products for industrial applications. Right now you either design your own sensors and have them made in quantities large enough to recoup costs, or you buy from Sony.
-
Sony is the only one making those large sensors at a reasonable price. If you look at the market you can even find 59x59mm sensors, but resolution and price are not up to spec as those are very niche products for industrial applications. Right now you either design your own sensors and have them made in quantities large enough to recoup costs, or you buy from Sony.
Not only that, but as Sony is gaining market share, peripherals, code etc are all getting standardized. It's becoming camera-in-a-kit.
Edmund
-
Hi,
Could be or not. Anyway, it is clearly the way that the Sony sensor does most of the stuff. It is a bit like using Fuji or Kodak film.
Sony delivers the image and the camera maker delivers a mechanical package. Optics and sensor decide image quality, just as in film times.
But, we no longer have Kodak and Fuji got a different spelling: SONY…
Best regards
Erik
Not only that, but as Sony is gaining market share, peripherals, code etc are all getting standardized. It's becoming camera-in-a-kit.
Edmund
-
Young Canon manager Ikyu to his boss: "Maeda-san, maybe we should use Sony sensors, they are really good". The boss: "Ikyu you know you should not use americanised 4-letter words. Go and wash your mouth with soap straightaways"!
:P
Edmund
Hi,
Could be or not. Anyway, it is clearly the way that the Sony sensor does most of the stuff. It is a bit like using Fuji or Kodak film.
Sony delivers the image and the camera maker delivers a mechanical package. Optics and sensor decide image quality, just as in film times.
But, we no longer have Kodak and Fuji got a different spelling: SONY…
Best regards
Erik