Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: Eric Brody on December 29, 2015, 12:41:11 pm
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I was a perfectly happy Nikon person since the 60's, and ended with a D800E, which I still have, my "last camera" :). Then, in the rush to small and light, I purchased an Olympus OMD, and was happy until I realized I didn't like the noise at base ISO. I then switched to Fuji, began with an X E-1, and now have the X T-1. Over time I have managed to amass eight lenses for the Fuji system and genuinely like it. The images are clean, crisp and realistically fulfill my needs as an aging mostly tripod based landscape photographer. Then... I rented a Sony A7RII, to get it out of my system I said. Big mistake. That camera and 50mm f/1.8 are back at Lens Rentals but I cannot get it out of my head, the Zeiss glass, IBIS, 42MP, and on and on. The financial hit from yet another switch is not trivial, but I could rationalize it. I'm sure others have faced the same dilemma and resolved it. What is an admitted gear freak to do?
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The pain you describe is awful Eric. I feel for you. I am very grateful that medium format equipment is relatively heavy (and expensive) by comparison or else I would be hauling such a kit around the world. Myself, I am trying group therapy; so far it seems to help, though last week someone 'fell off the wagon' and ordered the new camera you describe. He is now dead to us. The remaining photographers in the group are nervous and dreading the release of new tech in 2016 (see Edmund's predictions here (he mentions both MFD and 35 mm) here: http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=106733.0 ).
Sean
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As a huge Fuji Fan also, I would sure hold on to see what Fuji does with the X-Pro2 @ 24MP. One thing I have realized, the need for larger MP's in my business has fallen off, way off. I also love all the facets of the Fuji System you already mentioned, and have only wished for just a bit more resolution. Hopefully Fuji can pull this off in 2016, with first the X-Pro2 and then a new X-T2 or whatever.
I agree IBIS is great and Fuji has not shown any interest in this, still using OIS on their lenses. But Fuji has really shown that they seem interested in the future of the X-Trans product. They have given the users several major Firmware updates, rich in feature enhancements, that are not common with Sony, Canon or Nikon.
To me, the Sony is a great camera, and I love the files. I also rented one and worked with it with my Nikon glass until the Metabones adapter I was using jammed on a lens (another story). I missed the ability to have AF, and the ability to see the aperture information in m files. I also did not want to go out and invest in a large number of A mount Sony lenses or E mount, so for now I have stayed with Nikon and Fuji. However there is something about the Fuji files, that I love and will continue to invest in their products.
For me the Fuji camera and lens line up is excellent and all of their XF glass is top end.
Paul
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What is an admitted gear freak to do?
Hmmmm.... what the rest of us do? Take a deep breath. Make photos and don't buy more gear until our current gear's limitations keep us from creating the photos we want to.
Also keep in mind the A7RIII will likely be here in 15 months with new & improved everything. Oh, and quite likely between now and the A7RIII Fuji will come out with the X-T2.
Keep clickin' :D ;D
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My personal therapy is based on
- the past realization that switching to something else typically creates a larger number of issues than the problems on which it improves
- multiplying systems means that you typically end up knowing them less well, which means that you won't quite use them as optimally as they could be,
- the overall time loss has an opportunity cost that often translates in less images being captured.
It doesn't always work though... ;)
Cheers,
Bernard
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Also keep in mind the A7RIII will likely be here in 15 months with new & improved everything. Oh, and quite likely between now and the A7RIII Fuji will come out with the X-T2.
This is the main thing keeping me from making the jump, depreciation is bad enough of dslrs but the immaturity of mirrorless means the prices of these tank after a new flavour of the month hits the market. How to invest lens-wise is also far from clear on the sony side.
Fortunately as a D800E owner, the files out of the latest and greatest are not significantly improved from what I have so I am less bothered by upgrade-itis. As soon as a piece of gear gives demonstrably better files then I start to twitch.
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Hi,
The A7xx can be used with adapters. I don't feel that the original lens line is very strong. There is an adapter for Nikon AF in the pipeline.
A large sensor will always have an advantage in cleaner signals (higher SNR) but it may not work out that way. You may need to stop down for more DoF.
A well designed small sensor system is a pretty good idea. It needs to be well designed, though.
Best regards
Erik
I was a perfectly happy Nikon person since the 60's, and ended with a D800E, which I still have, my "last camera" :). Then, in the rush to small and light, I purchased an Olympus OMD, and was happy until I realized I didn't like the noise at base ISO. I then switched to Fuji, began with an X E-1, and now have the X T-1. Over time I have managed to amass eight lenses for the Fuji system and genuinely like it. The images are clean, crisp and realistically fulfill my needs as an aging mostly tripod based landscape photographer. Then... I rented a Sony A7RII, to get it out of my system I said. Big mistake. That camera and 50mm f/1.8 are back at Lens Rentals but I cannot get it out of my head, the Zeiss glass, IBIS, 42MP, and on and on. The financial hit from yet another switch is not trivial, but I could rationalize it. I'm sure others have faced the same dilemma and resolved it. What is an admitted gear freak to do?
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My therapy consists of realizing that my gear is far more competent than I "need" (being an amateur), and that my artistic skills need work. And I have the cheapo and low-dynamic-range Canon 6D. I don't think that buying a Sony A7RII and adapter is going to make my output magically better - upgrade the brain first. :D For me, that also means learning better post-processing technique.
Admittedly, I would like to try a nice sharp copy of a tilt-shift lens in the 24-35mm range, which for me means the Canon TS-E 24mm f/3.5L II may be my next gear wish. No photographer can avoid having at least a touch of G.A.S. ;)
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I bought a HUGE $100 box of color pencils and spend half an hour every evening doing freehand drawings.
This occupational therapy seems to keep GAS in check. I did buy some more yellow-red pencil shades though.
Edmund
My therapy consists of realizing that my gear is far more competent than I "need" (being an amateur), and that my artistic skills need work. And I have the cheapo and low-dynamic-range Canon 6D. I don't think that buying a Sony A7RII and adapter is going to make my output magically better - upgrade the brain first. :D For me, that also means learning better post-processing technique.
Admittedly, I would like to try a nice sharp copy of a tilt-shift lens in the 24-35mm range, which for me means the Canon TS-E 24mm f/3.5L II may be my next gear wish. No photographer can avoid having at least a touch of G.A.S. ;)
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Find a new girlfriend.
You could all make it a New Year resolution, have lots more fun and probably not spend a lot more than you already do on bits of tin, plastic and glass.
You'd also sleep better.
Nancy: I'm surprised at you! You know such honesty re. ability is dangerous here! You don't want folks getting all introspective, do you?
Best wishes for 2016 and onwards!
Rob C
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How can you pass up the nano acuity of the 50mm f/1.8 and lack of synchronous spherical aberration?
Or the absolute resolution delivered by Sony's asymmetrical matrix A-D converter coupled to an operative (tm) differential back positioned CMOS sensor using post anonamalyst optimisation?
I thought it was about Fuji's glass but you have all convinced me it's time to stop going out and having fun with gear that works. It's sure to get my photography to the next level. Does anyone offer a workshop on gear fondling? I can pay by credit card.
David
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I have seen a (better phrased than this) statement to the effect that a technically perfect (sharp, dynamic range, what-have-you) photo of a boring composition or visual concept is useless. Well, maybe not entirely useless if you are testing a legacy lens for sharpness or a modern lens for decentering issues - the proverbial brick wall image serves a purpose.
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Find a new girlfriend.
Best wishes for 2016 and onwards!
Rob C
The Wife acceptance factor for a new girlfriend can be lower than for a new camera, even in France.
Edmund
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I have seen a (better phrased than this) statement to the effect that a technically perfect (sharp, dynamic range, what-have-you) photo of a boring composition or visual concept is useless.
That must have been "There is nothing worse than a sharp image of a fuzzy concept" by Ansel Adams...
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I was a perfectly happy Nikon person since the 60's, and ended with a D800E, which I still have, my "last camera" :). Then, in the rush to small and light, I purchased an Olympus OMD, and was happy until I realized I didn't like the noise at base ISO. I then switched to Fuji, began with an X E-1, and now have the X T-1. Over time I have managed to amass eight lenses for the Fuji system and genuinely like it. The images are clean, crisp and realistically fulfill my needs as an aging mostly tripod based landscape photographer. Then... I rented a Sony A7RII, to get it out of my system I said. Big mistake. That camera and 50mm f/1.8 are back at Lens Rentals but I cannot get it out of my head, the Zeiss glass, IBIS, 42MP, and on and on. The financial hit from yet another switch is not trivial, but I could rationalize it. I'm sure others have faced the same dilemma and resolved it. What is an admitted gear freak to do?
Well, read this and try even harder to be rid of GAS.
I currently have an a7R2 and 4 great Zeiss lenses. I'm happy that my kit is lighter than it's ever been, and I've been shooting--and enjoying--it more too. But in the last several years, I've gone thru a Canon 5DS (highest quality images I've ever made!), a 5D3, a Samsung NX1, an Oly 'ME-5 MkII (WAY too small and clunky), a Sony a99, a Sony a7R (again, WAY too small and clunky), a Canon 6D, and probably more I've forgotten. I'm happy with the a7R2 with the Zeisses, so maybe I'm finished spending big money changing systems--I would certainly like to be. We'll see.
Good luck to you.
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Hmmmm.... what the rest of us do? Take a deep breath. Make photos and don't buy more gear until our current gear's limitations keep us from creating the photos we want to.
I confess the new Sony and lenses have my credit card finger twitching, but a good antidote I find is to go back and review my 5 star photos and look at the cameras I used - none over 24mp and some in the 10-12mp range. Other than being able to make larger prints, would any of these really have been better with more MP? I don't think so.
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Being one of the WORST GAS practicioners, I can say: faced with such decisions, what is the cost of doing nothing?
Secondly, how may serious photos do I take? Personally, my A7II is plenty of camera, several of my last gallery entries were accepted in national juried competition, prints were printed on 17x22 paper, very good detail.
Still doesn't cure the itch for the newest best, etc. 8)
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I confess the new Sony and lenses have my credit card finger twitching, but a good antidote I find is to go back and review my 5 star photos and look at the cameras I used - none over 24mp and some in the 10-12mp range. Other than being able to make larger prints, would any of these really have been better with more MP? I don't think so.
I have made a similar observation. The only cameras that trigger GAS in me these days are vintage film cameras.
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I have made a similar observation. The only cameras that trigger GAS in me these days are vintage film cameras.
Try this then:
Ilford Witness Camera and Dallmeyer Super Six 2" F1.9 Anastigmat and Case
£13,000
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ilford-Witness-Camera-and-Dallmeyer-Super-Six-2-F1-9-Anastigmat-and-Case-/331736426622?category=0&buyerid=FpRekKD1aqDfYV2nhgIMSg==&emailtemplateid=103683162&sellerid=FpRekKD1aqBpZuxgDLqdIA==&refid=store&ssPageName=ADME:B:SEMK:UK:LISTG
8)
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I bought into the Sony A7x system mainly so I could experience what overkill felt like. ;) IMO even the r2 body has a rough around the edges vibe to it…as I've said before the system is still a work in progress. I mainly process the RAWs to half-res TIFs or (on my iPad) JPEGs as anything larger rarely serves any practical purpose. Though it is nice to have the extra pixels on tap when some extra effective reach is needed. Using my favorite film era 35mm-format lenses on a modern body is fun too.
When it comes to doing photography I'm far more inclined to carry my Panasonic GX8 with its lovely 12–35 & 35–100/2.8 zooms, or a Leica M8.2 with one or two "primes," than the Sony. Which I guess equates to rather poor value for money (well, my money anyway) in the Sony's case.
-Dave-
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I concur with Bernard. Unless a new system increases the quality of images significantly or allows you to make images you couldn't make before without introducing significant negatives, it just isn't worth the effort.
I've only switched once in about 30 years from Canon to Nikon, but that was based on opportunity. When Canon obsoleted all my FD mount lenses with the EOS mount, I switched to Nikon for the glass and flash system. I seriously considered switching back to Canon about 2006 before Nikon got in bed with Sony and released the D3/D300 pair. Now, the 7DmkII is the only reason I would consider switching to Canon for and it just isn't enough.
I do enjoy playing with other gear, just to see what's out there and possible.
My personal therapy is based on
- the past realization that switching to something else typically creates a larger number of issues than the problems on which it improves
- multiplying systems means that you typically end up knowing them less well, which means that you won't quite use them as optimally as they could be,
- the overall time loss has an opportunity cost that often translates in less images being captured.
It doesn't always work though... ;)
Cheers,
Bernard
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Try this then:
Ilford Witness Camera and Dallmeyer Super Six 2" F1.9 Anastigmat and Case
£13,000
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ilford-Witness-Camera-and-Dallmeyer-Super-Six-2-F1-9-Anastigmat-and-Case-/331736426622?category=0&buyerid=FpRekKD1aqDfYV2nhgIMSg==&emailtemplateid=103683162&sellerid=FpRekKD1aqBpZuxgDLqdIA==&refid=store&ssPageName=ADME:B:SEMK:UK:LISTG
8)
Thank you, Chris, but in this particular case I think I'll follow Edmund's prescription.
;D
I bought a HUGE $100 box of color pencils and spend half an hour every evening doing freehand drawings.
This occupational therapy seems to keep GAS in check. I did buy some more yellow-red pencil shades though.
Edmund
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I wrote this originally as sort of tongue in cheek with a grain of seriousness, and happily many of the responses were written in that vein, e.g. "I feel your pain..." I do appreciate the serious and not so serious responses of many of the folks on this forum whose opinions I have come to respect from reading their posts over the years. It appears I'll be sticking with my Fuji for now, there are a few lenses I do not have... yet. But, darn, Phase One just announced the 100MP back for the new XF camera system, something else to consider at a mere US$48K :)
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I wrote this originally as sort of tongue in cheek with a grain of seriousness, and happily many of the responses were written in that vein, e.g. "I feel your pain..." I do appreciate the serious and not so serious responses of many of the folks on this forum whose opinions I have come to respect from reading their posts over the years. It appears I'll be sticking with my Fuji for now, there are a few lenses I do not have... yet. But, darn, Phase One just announced the 100MP back for the new XF camera system, something else to consider at a mere US$48K :)
bwahahaha.
Here is what I cannot quite justify at the moment:
http://www.amazon.com/Prismacolor-Premier-Colored-Assorted-1800059/dp/B005O2ZU68/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1451881848&sr=8-7&keywords=prismacolor
Edmund
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For the last couple of years, I have tested and tried several mirrorless systems, to replace my Canon 6D based system. Tried Fuji and Oly, but they really did not click with me. In the meantime, the Alpha 7 system was maturing...
Up to the point where it was mature enough for my needs (landscape, travel, documentary), so I jumped in. My system now consists of A7II, A7, plus 3 Zeiss lenses (Batis 25 and 85, Loxia 35). I am a happy camper. Just to imagine that one can replace a FF DSLR and Zeiss Milvus 21 with a A7 and Loxia 21 is amazing, for example.
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This is the main thing keeping me from making the jump, depreciation is bad enough of dslrs but the immaturity of mirrorless means the prices of these tank after a new flavour of the month hits the market. How to invest lens-wise is also far from clear on the sony side.
The beauty of the tanking is you can puck up great valued 2nd hand gear. You don't always need the new shiny model.
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I confess the new Sony and lenses have my credit card finger twitching, but a good antidote I find is to go back and review my 5 star photos and look at the cameras I used - none over 24mp and some in the 10-12mp range. Other than being able to make larger prints, would any of these really have been better with more MP? I don't think so.
Sure...maybe not if you just view them on the screen...but making large prints from them...I've seen a considerable improvement over the years as the sensors improved both in quality and the number of pixels.
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bwahahaha.
Here is what I cannot quite justify at the moment:
http://www.amazon.com/Prismacolor-Premier-Colored-Assorted-1800059/dp/B005O2ZU68/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1451881848&sr=8-7&keywords=prismacolor
Edmund
Here's one I always wanted as a child and can't justify either:
http://www.pencils.co.uk/en/gb/4428/32098/artists-pencils-120-wooden-box
I never thought when I switched to Fuji of all the lenses from the last 80-odd years that could be used via an adapter. I got suckered in to a Helios-44 (58mm f/2) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_%28lens_brand%29) which is gorgeous for portraiture, and unlike some Russian glass from the period is not radioactive. That's a good thing. Now ebay is absolutely off limits for me if there is a credit card in the house. Umm, but I could use a 2:1 macro....
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Hi,
If you don't need 42MP and full frame or don't need the option to use almost any lens on the planet stay with the Fuji.
It seems to be a great system with great lenses.
Also, the A7rII is small but full frame lenses tend to be large.
Best regards
Erik
I was a perfectly happy Nikon person since the 60's, and ended with a D800E, which I still have, my "last camera" :). Then, in the rush to small and light, I purchased an Olympus OMD, and was happy until I realized I didn't like the noise at base ISO. I then switched to Fuji, began with an X E-1, and now have the X T-1. Over time I have managed to amass eight lenses for the Fuji system and genuinely like it. The images are clean, crisp and realistically fulfill my needs as an aging mostly tripod based landscape photographer. Then... I rented a Sony A7RII, to get it out of my system I said. Big mistake. That camera and 50mm f/1.8 are back at Lens Rentals but I cannot get it out of my head, the Zeiss glass, IBIS, 42MP, and on and on. The financial hit from yet another switch is not trivial, but I could rationalize it. I'm sure others have faced the same dilemma and resolved it. What is an admitted gear freak to do?
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I'm of the "buy that camera to do today what you need to do today" school of thought :)
I bought an A7RII, but only because my existing "available light" camera (Canon 7D) was making the sick shutter noises that I know means the shutter mechanism is about to die.
I wasn't expecting the camera to take over in the way it has- I've not taken my GH4 up a mountain in months, and I increasingly find myself picking up the Sony instead of the Hasselblad in the studio too.
It's at that point that I decided it was OK to spend some more money on FE lenses; I expect I will stick with the A7RII as my workhorse camera for the next few years. I can't imagine what it would take to tempt to me move system again at this point, unless I start doing a completely different sort of photography. I was thinking of the Pentax 645Z for when the Hasselblad wears out, but now Hasselblad have cut prices I'd either look for a Hasselblad replacement, or maybe just suck up the loss of leaf shutters and stick with the Sony.
And the Hasselblad and GH4 will have their uses for the foreseeable future too. The Hasselblad's leaf shutter is very helpful for outdoor strobe plus daylight. The GH4 is great for video and timelapse. It's a good general backup camera to stick in the bag with a few small light lenses to cover pretty much every eventuality in case the A system (RED, Hasselblad, Sony) dies on a given trip. It won't do the job as well as any of the A systems, but it'll allow me to get SOMETHING where I might otherwise get nothing in pretty much every shooting situation for me.
Would I pick up a second Sony body if the A7RIII or a new larger body format comes out? Yes, probably.
Will I buy an updated Panasonic GH5, or Olympus m43? Doubt it.
Updated Hassy/Pentax MF? Doubt it at this point. The quality difference vs. FF35 is not compelling enough for me any more, so I'd probably only do it to keep the use of the Hasselblad lenses and Phocus skin tones.
Nikon? Pentax? Fuji? Not unless they release something entirely unprecedented.
Canon? I might get an 80D for video and just to keep a native Canon body around. Will definitely keep an eye out because I have such a lot of Canon fit lenses.
I don't need another camera to shoot today the photos I want to shoot today :)
Cheers, Hywel
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How big is your printer? I print 16x24 off an X-T1 very easily, even on high detail subjects, and I can often get away with 24x36 at very high quality, although the X-Pro 2 I have on order will be more comfortable at 24x36 than its little brother is. From everything I've seen in early reviews, there is NO question that an X-Pro 2 will be comfortable at 24x36" (the limit of my printer) on pretty much any subject, looking at the print closely. It will also have dynamic range and noise characteristics equal to the A7rII (it won't have the resolution, of course).
An X-Pro 2 (or the X-T2 that is soon to follow, if you like that body better) will be MUCH cheaper than replacing eight really nice Fujinons with Sony/Zeiss lenses. Depending on which Fujinons you have, there are probably some of them you can't replace at any cost without going for adapted lenses.
Many people like adapters, especially on the A7rII (which at least maintains full autofocus performance), but I've always personally been more comfortable keeping as few pieces on the camera as I can... There IS finally a name-brand (Sigma) Canon lens to FE body adapter, which is certainly better than something sold only on eBay. I can't tell from the one picture on the web if it maintains weathersealing or not...
I'd keep your Fuji gear (and add a 24 MP body if you want more resolution) UNLESS:
1.) You have a 44" printer the size of a piano and routinely print larger than 24x36" - there's no denying the extra resolution will help there (or you have a 24" printer and routinely print 24x50" panoramas or the like from a single frame).
OR
2.) You are routinely shooting the (tack-sharp) Fujinon 100-400 at 400mm and STILL having to crop to get your composition, and you know what you're going to do for a 600mm lens on the Sony.
OR.
3.)You have a specific fast Sony or adapted lens in mind that provides bokeh you just can't get on APS-C. Perhaps the most obvious candidate is the 35mm f1.4 Distagon ( equivalent bokeh on a Fuji would require a 23mm ~f1.0, which doesn't exist). The Fujinon 56mm f1.2 is awfully close to the new 85mm G-Master (half a stop), and the APD version should provide the half stop of improvement. The other candidate, of course, is a Noctilux on a Leica M adapter (the fastest Sony or Zeiss normal lens in FE mount is the 55mm f1.8, and the Fujinon 35 mm f1.4 is very close to that, not to mention the rumored 33mm f1.0).
Apart from those specialized circumstances (or video - but wait and see what the X-T2 has up its sleeve - Fuji execs have been hinting heavily about that one, and their new processor is MUCH faster than it needs to be unless they're heading for video or medium format), the Fuji system will do what the Sony will, and not only will you save a ton of money, you'll have a very familiar system where everything is beautifully built and works the same way. Sony is making huge strides, but at least to me, their cameras still feel computer-ish.
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Here's one I always wanted as a child and can't justify either:
http://www.pencils.co.uk/en/gb/4428/32098/artists-pencils-120-wooden-box
I never thought when I switched to Fuji of all the lenses from the last 80-odd years that could be used via an adapter. I got suckered in to a Helios-44 (58mm f/2) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_%28lens_brand%29) which is gorgeous for portraiture, and unlike some Russian glass from the period is not radioactive. That's a good thing. Now ebay is absolutely off limits for me if there is a credit card in the house. Umm, but I could use a 2:1 macro....
I have the equivqlent Coloursoft box. The problem is that variations are in saturation, density, not hue.
I find myself using a lot of Polychromos single pencil groups where I have bought fine shadings of hue.
In defense of Derwent, the texture is gorgeous and few people discriminate color very finely.