Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: Nicolas_Claris on April 20, 2006, 02:59:48 pm
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RG forum is back!
http://forums.robgalbraith.com/ubbthreads.php?Cat=0 (http://forums.robgalbraith.com/ubbthreads.php?Cat=0)
What will be it's future?
Will previous members come back?
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I checked it out already. Yes, I will visit but I do have following reservations.
(1). It will be run by Drew and Melissa Strickland, Wedding Photographers.
(2). They also run Digital Wedding Review Forum. They charge $49. per year to be a member.
(3). They will make announcement tomorrow. i.e. see how much traffic flow is there & then base their price structure on it.
(4) They probably give away 30days trial membership for free. like Wedding Photographer Forum.
R.G Forum has enormous variety of topic menu to choose from. I have my reservation whether they have knowledge & support (other than Uwe of Outback) to justify annual fee for the forum. At their other forum they let you see only sample 10 topics, you have to fork out $49 to view the rest. If that is the format Stricklands will follow than I doubt it will be any successful forum. Thats my 2C and I am keeping my $48.98
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$48.98 is a lot to pay just to hang out, kill time and shoot the breeze. I won't go back if that's the case. I might have to hang around here more.
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well in fact they say it's gonna be 25$/year.
The other aspect which is discussed a lot on th RG forum is that all the public messages/posts/contribution/library (as they call it) already written (and that's the real value of the past forum) will be only accessible to paying members. This is somewhat breaking the rights of Intellectual property of the previous posters...
If this is confirmed I will not join.
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... all the public messages/posts/contribution/library (as they call it) already written (and that's the real value of the past forum) will be only accessible to paying members. This is somewhat breaking the rights of Intellectual property of the previous posters...
If this is confirmed I will not join.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=63352\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
In my opionion, confiscation of intellectual property freely donated to the Internet community is irresponsible, reprehensible and unethical.
May they starve for members and contributors.
Peter
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As I posted on another forum about the same "issue":
Let me get this straight. Folks (experts and users) are supposed to PAY to share information? What does Rob and the forum bring to the party? What made the forums good were the people who shared info (before many got banned). Many left or were forced to leave. So how does that fact make the new forums worth any money? Does paying to be a member now mean someone can say something less than positive about a product and NOT see the post locked or deleted?
This kind of reminds me of the old Groucho Marks joke about joining a club that would have him as a member.
The old free forums imploded due to poor moderation practices. So now paying is the solution? Can someone explain all this to me or is it just a way to generate money?
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I guess you can go back to RG and delete all your old posts if it bothers you. Better hurry...
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sorry, read my post just under this one
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Hi Andrew
Money should not change the things.
I think there are different things.
I can understand that handling a forum costs money, maintaining the server, hosting, renting high band connections, time spent etc, etc.
This has not (or should not) be linked to the way the forum is handled.
There are some ethics -yes I still do believe that in 2006 it's more than necessary- to be followed, entertain, encouraged.
i.e.
- no publicly "unexplain" ban
- no diversion of the prior intents of the forum, previous posts were made with the spirit of sharing ideas, problems, answers, ideas etc. with the whole world thru that forum. These must not be sold as an old car. These posts are our collective intellectual property. Organising to pay in order to have access to this "material" is organising a theft.
If the new owners :
- publicly assert that previous bans are cancelled and invite you as well others such as Mark Tucker and James Russel (to speak about the one I know, not forgetting the others) to come back
- Officaly states that all posts written before the forum gets a paying place will be readable by anybody registered or not
Then RG forum may see its strength (all of us) come back.
If not? our community will be spreaded between many fora. What a shame.
And last but not least, thank-you to Luminous Landscape to host this thread. I sincerely hope not to break its rules.
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I guess you can go back to RG and delete all your old posts if it bothers you. Better hurry...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=63390\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
No, you can't if RG killed your account as he did with so many. Literally all the thousands of posts I made are locked from my ability to edit or delete them.
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No, you can't if RG killed your account as he did with so many. Literally all the thousands of posts I made are locked from my ability to edit or delete them.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=63396\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
That's just not acceptable.
And no, I won't be visiting there.
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I’ve changed my name at RG forums to xxx_xxx.
Actually this change effects the whole history.
It’s my answer to the (moral) IP question.
Peter
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I’ve changed my name at RG forums to xxx_xxx.
Actually this change effects the whole history.
It’s my answer to the (moral) IP question.
Peter
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[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=63444\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I finally ask Rob to close my account so I now appear as "former member" account closed.
The more will see this the less value the DB will have.
Let's go back to work now, I've an interesting assignement tomorrow...
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I’ve changed my name at RG forums to xxx_xxx.
Actually this change effects the whole history.
It’s my answer to the (moral) IP question.
Peter
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[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=63444\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Peter, Funny solution. Good idea.
Steven
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No, I won't and I too find what they are doing reprehensible. If they want my posts I am happy to license their use for only $25 a year, otherwise I think I might have to see if I can delete them.
Edit: Scratch that, you can't edit or delete old posts.
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I survived for years without participating in the RG forum. There are many photographic "communities" out there. RG, like the LL forum are places where friends hang out.
It's not about the information being exchanged. You can get answers to just about any question just by googling it. It's about the friendships.
Unfortunately, friendships don't pay the bills.
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Edit: Scratch that, you can't edit or delete old posts.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=63507\")
Nope!
apparently you can ask...
[a href=\"http://forums.robgalbraith.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=421770&an=0&page=0#421770]http://forums.robgalbraith.com/showflat.ph...0&page=0#421770[/url]
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No, I won't and I too find what they are doing reprehensible. If they want my posts I am happy to license their use for only $25 a year, otherwise I think I might have to see if I can delete them.
Edit: Scratch that, you can't edit or delete old posts.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=63507\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
They have changed their minds. The old postings will now be available for public viewing. The $25 will be an annual fee to be allowed to post. This will come as good news to a lot of people.
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They have changed their minds. The old postings will now be available for public viewing. The $25 will be an annual fee to be allowed to post. This will come as good news to a lot of people.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=63574\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I wonder if people like me and previously banned people will come back.
The way Drew handled the crisis is not the kind of things I like...
It was stated in the last posts that making pay for free stuff were not legal and were infringing copyrights, the fact that Drew didn’t post since Saturday afternoon may indicate that he was may be waiting for a layer’s advice... Who knows.
Wrong attitude anyway. How can we confident for the future.
Beside of that, the idea of a paying club doesn't looks good to me. I like the idea to be free to share a space with people that feels the same. If needed I may, as I did for RG, contribute and send some Euros if needed.
Isn't it nice to preserve a free space in our world?
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Remember all that "Free Internet for life" stuff a few years back. No Free lunch. This is just the tip of the iceberg..IMHO
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The way Drew handled the crisis is not the kind of things I like...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=63587\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
To offer a slightly different take on this, the new owners are still deep in the midst of the handoff, both technical and legal. Given that they listened - and agreed to - make the prior content avaible, as demanded during a very tough beginning is very much in their favor.
Regardless of all threats, or because of them, I'd give these guys some space to breathe while they jump into the driver's seat.
To a large extent, this "crisis" was precipitated by the extremely short notice the public was given about the transition; that was not Drew's fault. Obviously no one in the new ownership anticipated the deep angst that boiled up in a very short period of time. I'm reasonably sure that if RG had announced the intentions with a longer lead-in there would have been far more ramp-up time for the new owners to listen; this critical issue still would have bubbled up to the top...
I'm not here to second guess what RG's intent was, only grateful that he created something we have all come to value immensely, and that too few of us bothered to even say "Thank you" for.
Better to give Drew and company some breathing room now that he's agreed to the single big issue (and listened and found a solution), than continue fanning the flames and risk all that content simply going away. That would benefit no one.
Best wishes,
Jerry
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RG forum is back!
http://forums.robgalbraith.com/ubbthreads.php?Cat=0 (http://forums.robgalbraith.com/ubbthreads.php?Cat=0)
What will be it's future?
Will previous members come back?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=63181\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi everyone!
I like stopping in to the RG MF forum occasionally to satisfy my sadistic need to watch it dying like an unfortunate animal hit on a dark desert highway.
I plan to participate here. I'm not going to pay to share my trade secrets and photo work experience so someone else can turn a profit. And I won't do it in a forum that doesn't respect free speech or recognize the value of real world experiences.
So consider my flag planted here.
By the way, why haven't all of you gone out and purchased Hasselblad V series cameras? I thought I made a pretty good argument for them back in the RG forums....
Back with my pack,
Paul Rumohr
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Pay for the forum? Not a chance. The old forum died because it was moderated as if it was some 19c primary school. I won't be playing (or paying...).
Goodbye, Rob Galbraith...
Quentin
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IMO the question is 'If not Galbraith / ProPhotoCommunity, then where?' It takes a critical mass of informed posters that I don't find on some sites (I won't name names). Where will professional photographers & especially fine-art photographers go for info & advice: Here? ProPhotoCommunity? Somewhere else?
I hope that either (a) Michael will beef up this forum, or ( the former Galbraith forum will re-admit its banned 'bad boys' & succeed.
Of course folks like Andrew should be reinstated & the moderating should be more intelligent. With those conditions, I suppose the former Galbraith forum would be worth $25/year. As one of Rob's notes mentioned, the forum didn't bring in advertising revenue, & it takes valuable time & energy to administer a large forum. I noticed that another forum, pro4um, also charges a fee.
I found RG the easiest place to seek information. There were only a couple of places where I could ask questions and get answers at a level that was helpful me. It was helpful, for example, to have Chuck Westfall replying to questions about how Canon equipment is supposed to work - or Andrew or Ethan Hansen, in former times.
I've used the PixelGenius forums for technical PS questions, but you have to be a client there, & some of the Geniuses haven't been posting much of late.
This (LL) forum offers experienced & helpful discussion, but it isn't organized into as many discrete categories as the RG forum was, & it has fewer forum members. I don't have time to read through a lot of stuff under a few headings to find what I'm looking for.
I'd really like to see a larger forum for fine-art photographers, with more stuff about how technical & aesthetic matters interact. For example, discussants sharing experience of how the new Crane, Hahnemuhle, & Innova papers work, with the original Ultrachrome & the K3 inksets in both BW & color. This seems to be a good site for that, & I wonder if Michael would want to host discussions on a larger scale. This would be a good outcome of the Galbraith melt-down!
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I'd really like to see a larger forum for fine-art photographers, with more stuff about how technical & aesthetic matters interact. For example, discussants sharing experience of how the new Crane, Hahnemuhle, & Innova papers work, with the original Ultrachrome & the K3 inksets in both BW & color. This seems to be a good site for that, & I wonder if Michael would want to host discussions on a larger scale. This would be a good outcome of the Galbraith melt-down!
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=64017\")
One place you may reference for good info about papers, inks, etc. may be the Digital BlackandWhite mail list which you can access without using email if you choose.
[a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/[/url]
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Thank you , & yes, I do visit the site & have participated in a couple of the BW print exchanges that Tom O'Connell organizes there. But it's, um, B&W - which at this point excludes the majority of fine-art photographers.
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As I posted on another forum about the same "issue":
Let me get this straight. Folks (experts and users) are supposed to PAY to share information? What does Rob and the forum bring to the party? ...........Can someone explain all this to me or is it just a way to generate money?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=63366\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Andrew, it costs time and money to host this information sharing. It needs to be paid for one way or another or it wouldn't exist. Some sites take advertising. Other sites sell related products the profits from which pay the bills and perhaps compensate for the time spent.
I think the value of a thread like this one is to open a general discussion about what commercial practices make for a good web forum. I don't think paying a moderate fee necessarily determines anything - the issue is the business model - how it is done. If it isn't managed smartly (such as destroying free access to simply reading) it can destroy its community of users, and its value depends on the size and quality of its community. This is a fundamental principle of networked industries. I reminded the new managers of RG about this and about the huge advertising value they get from people just being able to read what others are saying. Shortly thereafter I imagine this plus all the other comments they got about creating denial of access to one's own contributions - stirred them to announce there would be access to archived material free of charge. Well go there and try to access it - quite the chore. I gave up. And it is limited to old stuff. People are interested in participating in what is being said now, so if one can't freely read what is being said now, there is just that much less incentive to want to pay a bit for becoming part of the conversation. It seems either they haven't understood this or don't think it makes a difference.
But they say they've got 100 subscribers the first day. The real problem could be if too many people "wait and see" how many others join to determine the value of themselves joining.
This will be an interesting experiment to watch - in terms of what makes or breaks a web forum.
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I must have missed this in the FAQ, but currently if you agree to reup, your subcription payment is going to Little Guy media, that's Rob's company not Drew's.
Curious was there anything mentioned in the FAQ as to how the purchase would be completed and as to when your payment would go to Drew direclty. I am not willing to send my payment to Little Guy. been there done that before.
Paul C.
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"Avatars?"
"Voting?"
"Contests?"
Uh, no thanks.
SAS