Luminous Landscape Forum

Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Colour Management => Topic started by: Erland on December 17, 2015, 05:14:16 am

Title: D65 vs D55 and a certain color
Post by: Erland on December 17, 2015, 05:14:16 am
Hi!

I was talking to a customer right now, who wanted me to calibrate their screen to D55 and 120cd. No problem, and While I was doing this, he asked whether a certain color, lets say Muddy green, will look the same on both D65 and D55 as whitepoint? Will the whitepoint alter the appearance of darker colors? I told him that I don't think so, and that the whitepoint don't affect the primaries and hence not the colors in between? But I can't say I am that very sure of it.

Kind regards.
Title: Re: D65 vs D55 and a certain color
Post by: digitaldog on December 17, 2015, 10:24:11 am
Is there a white surround?
Title: Re: D65 vs D55 and a certain color
Post by: Doug Gray on December 17, 2015, 09:10:10 pm
Hi!

I was talking to a customer right now, who wanted me to calibrate their screen to D55 and 120cd. No problem, and While I was doing this, he asked whether a certain color, lets say Muddy green, will look the same on both D65 and D55 as whitepoint? Will the whitepoint alter the appearance of darker colors? I told him that I don't think so, and that the whitepoint don't affect the primaries and hence not the colors in between? But I can't say I am that very sure of it.

Kind regards.

If you measure it they will differ. If it's a patch on a white (255,255,255) background it will look the same as long as you don't have another monitor nearby set up with a different WP.  Your eyes adapt to the white and you interpret colors based on that. If you have different monitors it can be quite confusing to glance at each.
Title: Re: D65 vs D55 and a certain color
Post by: xpatUSA on December 20, 2015, 12:39:27 am
. . . While I was doing this, he asked whether a certain color, lets say Muddy green, will look the same on both D65 and D55 as whitepoint?

According to this site (http://hex.wikimix.info/en/color-657432) muddy green is R,G,B = 101,116,50.

Armed with those numbers, we could head off to Bruce's Color Calculator (http://www.brucelindbloom.com/index.html?ColorCalculator.html).

There we find that D65 gives x,y = 0.368886, 0.468756

and that D55 gives x,y = 0.384116, 0.475451

CIE xyY model, of course. Like the well-known 1931 gamut diagram.

Also they are 2 degrees different in L*a*b* hue angle.

No idea if they would 'look the same' on an emissive device like a monitor.

Might investigate further . . .
Title: Re: D65 vs D55 and a certain color
Post by: Erland on December 20, 2015, 02:19:58 pm
According to this site (http://hex.wikimix.info/en/color-657432) muddy green is R,G,B = 101,116,50.

Armed with those numbers, we could head off to Bruce's Color Calculator (http://www.brucelindbloom.com/index.html?ColorCalculator.html).

There we find that D65 gives x,y = 0.368886, 0.468756

and that D55 gives x,y = 0.384116, 0.475451


CIE xyY model, of course. Like the well-known 1931 gamut diagram.

Also they are 2 degrees different in L*a*b* hue angle.

No idea if they would 'look the same' on an emissive device like a monitor.

Might investigate further . . .

Thanks! I find it rather odd though. I thought the rgb primaries remained the same and thus the colors ( at least the saturated ones) even when shifting whiteprint.
Wouldn't that make viewing pantone colors that are within gamut appear with a color shift?
Title: Re: D65 vs D55 and a certain color
Post by: Doug Gray on December 20, 2015, 03:56:16 pm
Thanks! I find it rather odd though. I thought the rgb primaries remained the same and thus the colors ( at least the saturated ones) even when shifting whiteprint.
Wouldn't that make viewing pantone colors that are within gamut appear with a color shift?

When you change the white point, the profile adjusts the maximum intensity of each primary so that (255,255,255) produces the desired white point. As a result other colors are scaled and changed in proportion.
Title: Re: D65 vs D55 and a certain color
Post by: Peter_DL on December 21, 2015, 08:11:17 am
When you change the white point, the profile adjusts the maximum intensity of each primary so that (255,255,255) produces the desired white point. As a result other colors are scaled and changed in proportion.

to expand on this, the linear scaling of X/Y/Z - from source white to target white and across all colors - is part of the Chromatic Adaptation Transform which is part of the RelCol rendering from the working space to the monitor profile.

As for the math part:
http://docs-hoffmann.de/cmsicc08102003.pdf
http://www.brucelindbloom.com/index.html?Eqn_ChromAdapt.html

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