Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: dgberg on December 10, 2015, 11:50:43 am
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Yes I have too much free time.
No I did not figure my time into this little exercise.
With a 9900 and 3880 using mostly the same inks I decided to get a set of the empty refillable carts from Jon Cone to refill.
I started emptying the newer dated so called empty carts (Last 2 years) and putting the inks into the 3880 refillables.
Some interesting data. Most if not all of the 9900 carts 350 and 700 ml were almost all empty. Some I got 5ml out of others maybe 8 that was it.
The OEM Epson 3880's were a totally different story. The least I got out of some was about 12ml. The most, 25ml and the average was closer to 20ml.
At around .65 a ml. I pulled about $13.00 worth of ink out of each one.
So far this morning I have extracted 400ml from 20 something carts that would normally just be thrown away. At that rate I will pay for those refillables this first filling.
Like I said too much free time.
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Dan, How much do the 3880 cartridges weigh when they are truly empty?
I have been weighing mine and they are 144 grams when full and about 74 grams when my 3880 will no longer print with them. The printer usually indicates that there is about 2% ink remaining just shortly before it stops printing and requests a new cartridge. I have assumed that it is designed that way to prevent air from getting into the lines.
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I just went through this a dance a bit. The printer starts complaining when the OEM cart has about 85g (approx). It'll want you to change it out to a more full cart if you try a nozzle check or testprint (from the printer). Once that is done, you could put the 85g carts back.
A bit of 'problem' is that it's not totally un-dangerous to run a testprint, pull the cart and put in the low cart and be 100% sure that that large print you want to make will not screwup leading to more wasted paper than the ink.
The cart is declared empty during a print run when it's around 75g. I've seen banding and other issues when I've had several very low carts in the printer at the same time.
So, there can be a lot of cart swapping. I keep and weigh the carts and store them and try to run them swap them in if possible, esp w/ smaller print.
Bottom line is that it takes quite a bit of work to get almost all of the 80mL out of the OEM carts. Sorry for the rambling post.
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I just went through this a dance a bit. The printer starts complaining when the OEM cart has about 85g (approx). It'll want you to change it out to a more full cart if you try a nozzle check or testprint (from the printer). Once that is done, you could put the 85g carts back.
A bit of 'problem' is that it's not totally un-dangerous to run a testprint, pull the cart and put in the low cart and be 100% sure that that large print you want to make will not screwup leading to more wasted paper than the ink.
The cart is declared empty during a print run when it's around 75g. I've seen banding and other issues when I've had several very low carts in the printer at the same time.
So, there can be a lot of cart swapping. I keep and weigh the carts and store them and try to run them swap them in if possible, esp w/ smaller print.
Bottom line is that it takes quite a bit of work to get almost all of the 80mL out of the OEM carts. Sorry for the rambling post.
Sorry Jay I have not weighted them.
All were taken out when the printer would no longer print anymore due to the flashing empty cart. I do the swapping thing too so none were removed because the printer was telling me they are just too low to clean or do a black swap.
Now I can extract 100% of any remaining ink and still use it.
Win, win.
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I have assumed that it is designed that way to prevent air from getting into the lines.
Exactly! Even when you receive a new printer, there is a shipping fluid in there since there can be no air. It's impossible to totally empty all ink, it would play havoc on the printer and it's print heads.
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I get that but it seems like it's overly cautious (oddly, to the financial advantage of Epson ;) )
I cut open a 3880 cart at about 84g total weight and extracted 19g (assume 1.0g/ml density) of ink.
Assuming they leave 10ml in there and dont really 'charge' for it, the extra 9+g represents fully 1/8th
of the cart.
A brand new cart weighs 150g so 80ml load should get you down to about 70g fully empty (including the buffer)
I have a small graduated cylinder (from my Rodinal days!) and can accurately figure out the true density of teh ink
but I'm assuming close to 1.0
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I get that but it seems like it's overly cautious (oddly, to the financial advantage of Epson ;) )
Only if you subscribe to conspiracy theories. :P
Getting air into the lines and then the heads isn't going to do much other than hose the printer.
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agreed but if they tell me I'm buying 80mL, I'd like to actually buy a usable 80mL and if they need to put extra in there to cover a shortcoming of the technology, then that should be on them.
Or tell me that the cart is 80mL but only 70 (or so) is usable. They dont do that (that I know of). They sell it as 80mL.
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agreed but if they tell me I'm buying 80mL, I'd like to actually buy a usable 80mL and if they need to put extra in there to cover a shortcoming of the technology, then that should be on them.
Some of that ink resides in the tubes too. You counting that?
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this is on an already primed machine. the ink in the tubes doesn't count/matter in this discussion
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agreed but if they tell me I'm buying 80mL, I'd like to actually buy a usable 80mL and if they need to put extra in there to cover a shortcoming of the technology, then that should be on them.
Or tell me that the cart is 80mL but only 70 (or so) is usable. They dont do that (that I know of). They sell it as 80mL.
What difference does that make? Would you be happy to spend $55 for today's cartridge or $65 which guarantees you get the full 80ml of usable ink?
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this is on an already primed machine. the ink in the tubes doesn't count/matter in this discussion
Primed of course, but the initial ink which replaced the shipping fluid, on forward has to be accounted for no?
Either way, there's some ink left in the cartridges, most folks know that. What most don't know is why, then come up with an ink conspiracy theory. The system cannot suck out all the ink without air getting into the system. As to how much ink has to be left, well I'll leave that to the armchair print engineers out there....
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This is all a little to deep for me.
All I know is I can extract a ton of ink from all these carts I was previously going to just throw away.
Just as a side note my new P800 came with a head that could not be cleared.
PK and yellow were gone completely. After multiple cleans and little results Epson sent me a new one.
They also told me to keep the inks. The second one works great.
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I'm pissed I can't get ever last drop of product out of: toothpaste tubes, shampoo bottles or any product with those damn pumps, the mayonnaise jar etc. ;D
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I saw that MIT developed some form of ultra coating for the inside of those jars/bottles to yield zero waste. zero product adhesion.
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I saw that MIT developed some form of ultra coating for the inside of those jars/bottles to yield zero waste. zero product adhesion.
IF it's anything like PFOA, pass. :D
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I hear that Canon's don't waste any ink. I have been an Epson guy for 15 years. For those who complain, and I am one of them, then perhaps its time to switch. LOL!
Gar
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I hear that Canon's don't waste any ink.
Just ink heads ;D
The grass is alway greener on the other side.
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An empty OEM cart weighs anywhere from 58 to 62 grams. A full OEM cart weighs anywhere from 148 to 152 grams. I refill OEM so I have weighed dozens of these over time there is some variability among them. The 10-15ml remaining for a declared empty 38xx cartridge is just about right.
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I have in the past weighed 'empty' and full cartridges. By my reckoning, a full 3880 cartridge has about 90 ml of ink and about 10 ml remains. It says 80 ml on the box, so I have no real problem with that.
I often chuck 350 and 700 ml cartridges from the 9890 at 1% when they are too low for a cleaning cycle, and that bothers me more. The 3880 will run near empty for a very long time, but the 9890 will start to lose nozzles about the same time and it really isn't worth putting them back in.
Brian A
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Unfortunately,
This is the cornerstone of modern Capitalism. It is the planned obsolescence of Apple products. Zero upgradability, very limited repairs. Building things to the lowest quality that will last 12 months and a day until the warranty is up.
When we had incandescent lights, the manufacturers were penalized if they had a bulb that would last over a certain number of hours. There's a documentary on the.
I use a mix of Epson r1900, r2400, 9890. I do small prints and tests on the little printers but when I do a big job on the 9890, I can go through 100ml. Luckily many of the carts installed are the 700ml.
On the manufacturers side of the coin, I am always amazed by any consumer electronic mass produced product shipped from China, that just has to work out of the box. And other than some nozzle checks or programmed alignments etc, just has to work. For years. Hopefully with no real repairs.