Luminous Landscape Forum
The Art of Photography => User Critiques => Topic started by: Diego Pigozzo on October 30, 2015, 07:18:14 pm
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Shot today during lunch break.
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Very nice, much better than what I usually get off similar scenes.
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Gorgeous in colour. I imagine it could be equally compelling in B&W.
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Grand result Diego!
You have pulled off a concept that I have tried many times with only so-so results.
A stunning combination of both the concrete and the abstract!
Tony Jay
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Me too. I've got lots of failed attempts at something like that, too.
Nicely done, Diego!
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Yes it's very nice. DOF is just right. I like that it's repetition but with a random element too. Cool.
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The interplay of Light/shadow/color/shapes/patterns/chaos is spot on. I think it's interesting the way the image tessellates. The green goes from dark to luminescent. Nice. Well seen.
Approximately 10% of the male population is red-green colorblind. That's a bummer.
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The interplay of Light/shadow/color/shapes/patterns/chaos is spot on. I think it's interesting the way the image tessellates. The green goes from dark to luminescent. Nice. Well seen.
Approximately 10% of the male population is red-green colorblind. That's a bummer.
It doesn't help them drive better...
Rob C
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Great shot that could also be an excellent candidate for B&W. I love the vidic greens, though.
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Very nicely presented.
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As a member of BobDavid's 10% club (Red-Green "colorblind") I can see vivid green's like those in Diego's shot nicely.
As for traffic lights, I've always seen them as Red, Yellow, and White, and for years I wondered why people called the "go ahead" light "Green."
P.S. I have seen about two or three non-standard traffic lights in my 76 years in which the "Green" actually looked pale green instead of white.
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Gorgeous in colour. I imagine it could be equally compelling in B&W.
I agree: those greens are rich without being overly saturated. As much as I like b/w, if this were my photo, I'd keep it as is.
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As a member of BobDavid's 10% club (Red-Green "colorblind") I can see vivid green's like those in Diego's shot nicely.
As for traffic lights, I've always seen them as Red, Yellow, and White, and for years I wondered why people called the "go ahead" light "Green."
P.S. I have seen about two or three non-standard traffic lights in my 76 years in which the "Green" actually looked pale green instead of white.
Hi Eric, back in grad school, I spent a lot of time researching color and depth perception. As an adjunct professor, I asked students to take this test: http://xritephoto.com/color-iq-test It helped me customized assignments for those who had difficulty differentiating colors. To what degree a person is red-green colorblind OR has tetrachromatic vision is a matter of: distribution, density, and types of cones in the retina, how visual stimuli is processed in the visual cortex, neurological pathways/wiring, and cognitive adaptability. Bottom line: I am interested in how you perceive green relative to the general and special population. Here's a weird question: do you dream in color or monochrome?
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It doesn't help them drive better...
Rob C
Colorblind people are usually cognitively aware of red, green or both when it comes to driving. However, the military excludes folks who are colorblind from becoming pilots. I'd guess that also applies to commercial aviation.
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Hi Eric, back in grad school, I spent a lot of time researching color and depth perception. As an adjunct professor, I asked students to take this test: http://xritephoto.com/color-iq-test It helped me customized assignments for those who had difficulty differentiating colors. To what degree a person is red-green colorblind OR has tetrachromatic vision is a matter of: distribution, density, and types of cones in the retina, how visual stimuli is processed in the visual cortex, neurological pathways/wiring, and cognitive adaptability. Bottom line: I am interested in how you perceive green relative to the general and special population. Here's a weird question: do you dream in color or monochrome?
I just took the Xrite test. I have done it before, but I can't remember what my score was. This time it 221, with perfect being 0 and pretty bad being 99. The total range of scores for my age/gender range is -1 to 1520 (I'm not sure how you score -2 if perfect is 0).
My first meaningful awareness of my color vision defect was in high school, when a friend told me that the necktie I had which I thought was blue-green was actually gray. I learned about the Ishihara color vision tests, which are the classic before-computers tests, and learned in biology class that I was a typical example of the common, genetically carried red-green anomaly. My mother's father had the same color defect, and my mother was a carrier, and I got the bad gene but my brother didn't.
Like many others with this defect I tend to make visual distinctions by luminosity first and only secondarily by hue. I can see bright colors if they are in large areas. My wife often points out little, bright red flowers along the roadside, and I can't see the red until I get very close to them.
But yes: I often dream in color! And most of my photography is in BW, except some abstracts where the exact color doesn't need to be "real," but only "interesting."
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I just took the Xrite test. I have done it before, but I can't remember what my score was. This time it 221, with perfect being 0 and pretty bad being 99. The total range of scores for my age/gender range is -1 to 1520 (I'm not sure how you score -2 if perfect is 0).
My first meaningful awareness of my color vision defect was in high school, when a friend told me that the necktie I had which I thought was blue-green was actually gray. I learned about the Ishihara color vision tests, which are the classic before-computers tests, and learned in biology class that I was a typical example of the common, genetically carried red-green anomaly. My mother's father had the same color defect, and my mother was a carrier, and I got the bad gene but my brother didn't.
Like many others with this defect I tend to make visual distinctions by luminosity first and only secondarily by hue. I can see bright colors if they are in large areas. My wife often points out little, bright red flowers along the roadside, and I can't see the red until I get very close to them.
But yes: I often dream in color! And most of my photography is in BW, except some abstracts where the exact color doesn't need to be "real," but only "interesting."
Artists have more neurological/perceptual defects than the general population. Chuck Close has prosopagnosia, Piet Mondrian could not see green and the red paint in his pictures stayed within a narrow band throughout his career. Dyslexia, monocular vision, flicker rate, astigmatisms, and even cataracts are among a long list of variables that often impact an artist's work.
I am stereo blind--meaning I do not have binocular vision. My photographs are often spatially compressed as that is how I actually perceive three-dimensional space. To compensate for this defect, I rely on a variety of cues. For example, when I played tennis, I was a reliable back-court player. The markings on the court, the sound of the ball, and an innate number sense (trigonometry) enabled me to play. However the closer I'd get to the net, the worse I played. Luckily, my tennis buddies let me play the back court in doubles matches. My wife is skilled at racquetball. I cannot gauge where the ball is in a racquetball court--the space is relatively compact and the four walls are white. My flicker rate is too slow to see if the ball appears larger (closer) or smaller (farther) in my field of vision. Also, the sound of the ball when it makes contact with the walls echoes, so that further disorients me. I cannot bat a ball or reliably catch pop flies.
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One of my longest photographer friends, whom I met at a Minor White workshop in 1966, had vision in only one eye, yet she was adept at driving in Boston traffic (which generally demands four or more eyes in all directions). I now realize that almost all cameras, then and now, have been built for non-stereo vision.
I haven't tried making 3-dimentional prints. At least not yet. ;)
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One of my longest photographer friends, whom I met at a Minor White workshop in 1966, had vision in only one eye, yet she was adept at driving in Boston traffic (which generally demands four or more eyes in all directions). I now realize that almost all cameras, then and now, have been built for non-stereo vision.
I haven't tried making 3-dimentional prints. At least not yet. ;)
Weirdly, I liked driving in Boston a lot more than I do in Florida. At least in Boston, everybody "gets it." Here in Florida, we get invaded by snow birds during the winter, have a lot of people on the road whose reflexes and vision aren't perky, rednecks, and super-duper long waits at traffic lights.
3-D printers are coming down in price. I think it would be fun to use CAD software for designing and printing customized lens hoods, filter holders, and other accessories. I am really interested in building motion-control devices for controlling camera movements for time exposures. I think it's really neat the way these technologies are becoming affordable for hobbyists.
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Wow, we have a double bonus here in this thread.
First, that's an exceptional rendition of ferns and fractals, Diego. As others have said, among the best I've seen. You seemingly got everything just right.
And then we have a very interesting discussion of color and not-so-much-color vision and perception, that really makes you think.
Eric, you noted that your vision probably influences your preference for black and white photography. It makes me wonder if the best practitioners of that genre include a higher than average number with some degree of difficulty in color perception.
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Wow, I must say I'm suprised by the acceptance you all guys gave to the shot.
I'm not used to such a response :)
That said, both on the black&white and the color-blind subject: I tried some quick experiment with a B&W convertion (as you can see below) but I'm not as happy with the color version.
Thinking about it, IMHO the "problem with B&W" of this image is mainly the lack of an "explicit unitary structure".
What I mean is that the shot is chaotic and both color and lights/shadows help to make sense of what is shown: we know that it's a plant, so my brain adds the implied structure to my perception.
Without color, I find more difficult to make sense of all the chaos because the added implied structure is much weaker.
But this may be just me, of may be just a post-hoc rationalization due to the fact that when shot I envisioned the image to be in color (so I'm somehow biased).
Or maybe it's because I live in a world full of color images: had I lived in the forties I would have probably be much more used to monochrome image.
As for the color-blind subject, it's quite interesting how the thread evolved because I really interested in how others perceive the world.
That's why one of my favorite books is "Sensory Exotica" (that I read many many years ago).
That said, thanks again all you guys for the comments :)
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(Quote Eric:Like many others with this defect I tend to make visual distinctions by luminosity first....)
Eric and Diego...
This is illuminating. Diego, I found myself squinting strongly to study the composition of the most luminous of your greens and then found myself wishing you would explore it in B&W. Then further along in the thread the aha moment from Eric. I have always been drawn to Eric's black and whites no matter what the original matter consisted of, beach, tarmac etc because the beauty for my personal pleasure was seeing the "what else" he constructed of the material in the viewfinder...and similarly the "what is the in between" materializing as Minor did so amazingly on the west coast shorelands... makes me wish we knew more of the fortuitous nature of a possible similar handicap (handicap=heaven gift of seeing inner light)
So much more tucked into future "seeing" for me...Thank you both.
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I love it in color.
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Wow... Diego you popped up a black and white while I was posting... as you said it was just a quick attempt. There is a wealth available in your original to work your way to something quite amazing. Black and white is not generally quick...the reveal of depth of beauty usually demands some stepping away and returning to get to the essence and lusciousness of the matter...I think you have a file that can gift you with a depth of seeing just out there far enough to grab if you wish...or not...as it is your vision and pleasure which is the measure in the end...
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Diego,
I find your BW version quite stunning. I think if you were putting together a color exhibit, you should go with the color version. But if you were doing a BW exhibit, I'd definitely include the BW version. It may be my faulty color vision, but I find the BW version even more compelling than the color one. And they are both excellent.
As for my predilection for BW, it also comes from many years doing my own BW darkroom prints, since color work was so difficult, I would shoot some color slides and just send them to Kodak for processing. I never took color seriously as a photographic medium until I started dabbling in digital, and color became so much easier. (But friends told me that the "blue" skies in my landscape prints were really "cyan," which I couldn't see.)
Eric
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Wow... Diego you popped up a black and white while I was posting... as you said it was just a quick attempt. There is a wealth available in your original to work your way to something quite amazing. Black and white is not generally quick...the reveal of depth of beauty usually demands some stepping away and returning to get to the essence and lusciousness of the matter...I think you have a file that can gift you with a depth of seeing just out there far enough to grab if you wish...or not...as it is your vision and pleasure which is the measure in the end...
I will surely follow your (and others) advice to seriously try a balck&white convertion since I agree that the image has potential.
Unfortunatly my vision is lagging behind ... :(
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Diego,
I find your BW version quite stunning. I think if you were putting together a color exhibit, you should go with the color version. But if you were doing a BW exhibit, I'd definitely include the BW version. It may be my faulty color vision, but I find the BW version even more compelling than the color one. And they are both excellent.
Well, thank you.. I'm a little flattered :)
As I wrote to Patricia, I'll surely try a more serious black&white conversion (since I don't like this one very much).
But it's interesting you like it because if may be due to your "faulty color vision" or by my "mind vision" not ready for B&W or either. :D
As for my predilection for BW, it also comes from many years doing my own BW darkroom prints, since color work was so difficult, I would shoot some color slides and just send them to Kodak for processing. I never took color seriously as a photographic medium until I started dabbling in digital, and color became so much easier. (But friends told me that the "blue" skies in my landscape prints were really "cyan," which I couldn't see.)
Eric
Very much alike, I started photographic more than twenty years ago but never took it seriously (mainly because of money).
With digital all that changed: now I can at least pretend to take it seriously :D :D
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I like the B&W rendition very much, but I also agree that there may be more still to express in this image.
I must say that it is a bit unusual for both a colour and a B&W version of the same base image to both look so good since, in general, the visual characteristics of what makes for a striking image are often so different between a colour and a B&W image.
So congratulations again and thanks for gracing us with such quality images!
Tony Jay
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Weirdly, I liked driving in Boston a lot more than I do in Florida. At least in Boston, everybody "gets it." Here in Florida, we get invaded by snow birds during the winter, have a lot of people on the road whose reflexes and vision aren't perky, rednecks, and super-duper long waits at traffic lights.
Ah, but in Boston a large percentage of drivers are texting or have ears glued to a cell phone, and the popular attitude seems to be that lane markings, red lights, "stop" signs, "do not enter" signs, and "one way" signs are merely suggestions that only apply to other people. In Manhattan they drive much faster than in Boston, but having lived in the Boston area since 1946, I generally find it easier to drive in Manhattan than in Boston. In NYC, at least, when a light turns red, traffic stops; and when it turns green, it starts immediately. Not so in Boston. But I've never tried driving in Florida.
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Eric, you noted that your vision probably influences your preference for black and white photography. It makes me wonder if the best practitioners of that genre include a higher than average number with some degree of difficulty in color perception.
Good point, Arlen. That sounds quite plausible, but I have no direct knowledge of it.
I think Paul Caponigro does the finest traditional black and white printing of any photographer that I have met. I have no idea whether he is color blind. A good friend of mine, David Wunsch, also does excellent black and white work, and I know that he is not color blind in any way.
Good question.
And Diego: Apologies for hijacking your thread! AT least you have gotten some good responses to both versions of your "Fractals."
Incidentally, a couple of years ago I spent some time photographing in the rain forest on Victoria Island, and all my photos showed dazzling, lush green foliage. I struggled a lot trying to get good prints, but when I finally converted all my images to black and white, they seemed (to me) to come alive in a way that the color hadn't. Perhaps it was what Patricia spoke of.
-Eric
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The colour version is excellent but the B&W seems to me to go beyond even that. It's less garish, more subtle. The textures, and the fractal nature of the shot, are more accessible, at least to my eye.
Jeremy
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"A fractal is a natural phenomenon or a mathematical set that exhibits a repeating pattern that displays at every scale. It is also known as expanding symmetry or evolving symmetry".
The original post shows no signs that it is even close to being a fractal. Another misnamed image, be it in colour or B&W.
A nice image but poorly named.
Cheers,
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This B&W version is truly a beautiful photograph. Spectacular, in fact. I love the way the fern fronds gradually emerge from the deep, rich blacks and reach a crescendo of tactile highlights.
It's time to hang up my photo gear and sit back to enjoy results like this!
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(Quote Terry: It's time to hang up my photo gear and sit back to enjoy results like this!)
What a lovely compliment Terry, and well deserved for the journey Diego is walking of late...
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Good point, Arlen. That sounds quite plausible, but I have no direct knowledge of it.
I think Paul Caponigro does the finest traditional black and white printing of any photographer that I have met. I have no idea whether he is color blind. A good friend of mine, David Wunsch, also does excellent black and white work, and I know that he is not color blind in any way.
Good question.
And Diego: Apologies for hijacking your thread! AT least you have gotten some good responses to both versions of your "Fractals."
Incidentally, a couple of years ago I spent some time photographing in the rain forest on Victoria Island, and all my photos showed dazzling, lush green foliage. I struggled a lot trying to get good prints, but when I finally converted all my images to black and white, they seemed (to me) to come alive in a way that the color hadn't. Perhaps it was what Patricia spoke of.
-Eric
Eric,
Less is more. Albert Watson came in to this world with but one functioning eye, and he went on to become one of photography's superstar millionaires, and worth every penny of it. David Bailey is dyslexic, and that didn't stop the birth of great photographs.
Even I have often been accused of being a half-wit (can you imagine?) and it never held me back from getting to most of the places I wanted to get and some that I didn't - as an equalizing bonus, of course; mustn't allow anyone to become elitist or smug!
The only people who matter are those you love. The rest just take up space and consume resources, confuse the issues and make life less agreeable than it might otherwise be.
;-)
Rob
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I must say that it is a bit unusual for both a colour and a B&W version of the same base image to both look so good since, in general, the visual characteristics of what makes for a striking image are often so different between a colour and a B&W image.
In fact it's something worth considering.
I think that, in this case, the image works in both ways because the color version also is a monochromatic image (just black to green instead of black to white) and because the color doesn't compete with the structure of the fern.
And Diego: Apologies for hijacking your thread! AT least you have gotten some good responses to both versions of your "Fractals."
Incidentally, a couple of years ago I spent some time photographing in the rain forest on Victoria Island, and all my photos showed dazzling, lush green foliage. I struggled a lot trying to get good prints, but when I finally converted all my images to black and white, they seemed (to me) to come alive in a way that the color hadn't. Perhaps it was what Patricia spoke of.
-Eric
Are you kidding?
My shot sparked a discussion beyond the image itself! I would like all my images to do that. :D :D
This B&W version is truly a beautiful photograph. Spectacular, in fact. I love the way the fern fronds gradually emerge from the deep, rich blacks and reach a crescendo of tactile highlights.
It's time to hang up my photo gear and sit back to enjoy results like this!
Thank you, I'm quite flattered :)
But please: don't quit photography.
Look, I post two "less-than-optimal" shot below.
See? A long way to go, for me. :)
These last three were taken in the exact same spot.
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Ah, but in Boston a large percentage of drivers are texting or have ears glued to a cell phone, and the popular attitude seems to be that lane markings, red lights, "stop" signs, "do not enter" signs, and "one way" signs are merely suggestions that only apply to other people. In Manhattan they drive much faster than in Boston, but having lived in the Boston area since 1946, I generally find it easier to drive in Manhattan than in Boston. In NYC, at least, when a light turns red, traffic stops; and when it turns green, it starts immediately. Not so in Boston. But I've never tried driving in Florida.
We moved away from Boston in 2003; texting wasn't common then. I did get rear-ended on the VFW Parkway/Highway 1 in Dedham by a lady who was talking on her phone while piloting a giant SUV. When I got out of my car and walked towards hers, she insisted my car was fine and that she was in a hurry. I pointed out that my bumper was lopsided, gouged and that the shape matched the height of her bumper which had streaks of paint matching my bumper. Not to mention my toddler, strapped in her car seat, was scared (however unharmed) and the lady did not even ask if she was alright. As I called for the cops, the woman screamed, "I'm late for a movie; I don't have time for this!" Ironically, we were both on our way to the same theater. Her insurance paid to for the damages--a few thousand dollars. Later that year, when we moved to Florida, our insurance penalized me for the accident despite the fact that it wasn't my fault. At the time, Florida auto insurers raised rates for all cars involved in accidents regardless of fault.
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I adore the B&W version, although I like the green also. Maybe the fact that the original is also essentially monochrome is why the conversion works well? Although usually I like B&W for its simplifying effect.
Or because I just like B&W :-)
And I scored 19 on the X-rite test, which is apparently relatively good for my age and gender.
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We moved away from Boston in 2003; texting wasn't common then. I did get rear-ended on the VFW Parkway/Highway 1 in Dedham by a lady who was talking on her phone while piloting a giant SUV. When I got out of my car and walked towards hers, she insisted my car was fine and that she was in a hurry. I pointed out that my bumper was lopsided, gouged and that the shape matched the height of her bumper which had streaks of paint matching my bumper. Not to mention my toddler, strapped in her car seat, was scared (however unharmed) and the lady did not even ask if she was alright. As I called for the cops, the woman screamed, "I'm late for a movie; I don't have time for this!" Ironically, we were both on our way to the same theater. Her insurance paid to for the damages--a few thousand dollars. Later that year, when we moved to Florida, our insurance penalized me for the accident despite the fact that it wasn't my fault. At the time, Florida auto insurers raised rates for all cars involved in accidents regardless of fault.
That's why nobody loves insurance companies: offer you an umbrella when it's sunny, but want it back when it rains.
But you know who told me that? The first bank manager I met when I hung out my shingle - he was talking about banks! Honest man.
Oh, those pesky facts of life... seldom fit the stereotype, which is Nature's way of confusing us all.
;-(
Rob C