Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: Redcrown on October 20, 2015, 12:54:35 am
-
Article says printer manufactures include a hidden dot pattern in all prints that identifies serial number.
http://www.net-security.org/secworld.php?id=18995
-
Can the government track your print back to you?
If you sign it.
-
Assuming that this imprinted code actually exists, exactly how would "The Government" (cue dramatic music) track someone down? Is Target/Best Buy sending "The Government" (bring up music) my information and the serial number of the printer?
And for what purpose would the government want to do this?
-
Assuming that this imprinted code actually exists, exactly how would "The Government" (cue dramatic music) track someone down?
Simple, they decode the pattern on the print they want to trace back to its origin, they correlate the serial number with your purchase, or most recent printer driver update and ISP records. Do you really think they do not have that, as part of their dragnet operations of (mobile) phone traffic or cloud storage, etc.?
Of course that only 'proves' that the document was printed with that printer, not that you printed it, but that's now for you to disprove ...
And for what purpose would the government want to do this?
Ask them ... , 'Patriot' act? Ever hear about 'Prism' (https://www.google.nl/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CEkQFjAFahUKEwj7rt2_ndHIAhXI2RoKHTdMC5E&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fworld%2F2013%2Fjun%2F06%2Fus-tech-giants-nsa-data&usg=AFQjCNE6mpSoXudvYC43MXBU3rogxDmyHA&sig2=CTUPOVhpfBsYkuG08lr07Q)?
Cheers,
Bart
-
This was known to exist upwards of a decade ago when laser printers were not yet $100 BestBuy items on Xerox and HP color lasers. It was primarily to stop counterfeiting but these days, I'm sure they add 'terrorism' to the list, just for good measure. It was usually done in yellow to make it hard to find on printouts. That's also why lasers are 'sensitive' to the properties of US Mint inks.
-
Another loss of our freedoms and potential abuse by government. Look how the IRS abused their power for political aims. This is another way the government can interfere with political processes if you print anti political documents. Does anyone really believe the Secret Service which works for the President will remain neutral?
-
Article says printer manufactures include a hidden dot pattern in all prints that identifies serial number.
http://www.net-security.org/secworld.php?id=18995
Well this explains why I always have a slightly blurry spot in the upper left corner of all my prints. I thought it was an issue with the printer and Epson would tell me anything at all. Glad to know the government is looking out for things.
BTW, is it April 1 yet?
Alan (in his best Pynchon paranoia mode).
-
I don't think we have to worry, it looks like it's color laser printers. 😀
-
Another loss of our freedoms and potential abuse by government. Look how the IRS abused their power for political aims. This is another way the government can interfere with political processes if you print anti political documents. Does anyone really believe the Secret Service which works for the President will remain neutral?
I'm one hell of a lot more worried about the Wall Street & Billionaires' kleptocratic take over of the govm't that the party of "Signed-in-Blood Allegiance to Great God Norquist" represents.
Pete (who's into REAL threats)
-
Government sticking their nose into our private affairs is an important issue that transcends dots on a print. Diverting attention with comments about billionaires won't lessen the major impact government has on us. Billionaires can't lock you up or destroy your career. Government can. It's effort to snoop on you is never ending.
http://fortune.com/2015/10/20/tim-cook-against-backdoor/
-
Government sticking their nose into our private affairs is an important issue that transcends dots on a print. Diverting attention with comments about billionaires won't lessen the major impact government has on us. Billionaires can't lock you up or destroy your career. Government can. It's effort to snoop on you is never ending.
http://fortune.com/2015/10/20/tim-cook-against-backdoor/
Alan, what are you hiding that Google can't find, pray tell??!!
Now I don't recommend that you join the rank of truth-telling whistle-blowers, but who else of the 350,000,000 of us not engaged in domestic terrorism has really been impacted in the 14 years of super-snooping since George II's regime brought 9/11 down on us?
But when the kleptocrats own the gov., you betcha they will find ways to ferret out and persecute the likes of me!
-
Hey guys,
Take it to the Coffee Corner. You'll find lots of like minded folks over there.
Brad
-
LOL It is interesting how some people are so quick to take conspiracy theories at face value. Just do not believe most of what you read on the Internet without verification by multiple reputable sources. Take most everything like this with a large grain of salt. :)
BTW the Conspiracy Coffee Corner looks to be a good place for this.
Bob
-
Hey guys,
Take it to the Coffee Corner. You'll find lots of like minded folks over there.
Hi Brad,
The OP's question is perfectly fine for this forum, because it is printing/printers related. This has nothing to do with conspiracy, it's just a given fact known for many years already, similar to the inability to use Photoshop to edit a scan of a banknote (e.g. Euro or Dollar) because the software detects the bill and refuses to process it (but that's a subject for a different forum).
Cheers,
Bart
-
Article says printer manufactures include a hidden dot pattern in all prints that identifies serial number.
http://www.net-security.org/secworld.php?id=18995
Many printers have a direct link to their manufacturer when powered on, for example just to make it easier to order consumables. I doubt that there will not be a serial number exchanged too. That webcam facing you will tell who made the printer run. It would be nice if this all helps to fight crime, extremism, terrorism and not have an adverse effect on privacy, democracy, freedom of press etc. For the last I'm more worried about the press not surviving the switch to the digital era. Which also indicates the declining importance of printing in general; tracing the serial number of a USB stick or the path of a bittorrent/encrypted VPN file is now way more important to fight the bad people than anything printed.
BTW, this coding system could be a nice way to proof it's your print made on your printer or a counterfeit. Maybe Snowden can tell us what equipment to use for detecting the code. Better than a printed certificate.
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2014 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots
-
Thank you Epson for making such amazing printers. You guys are crazy. Back to my images of pretty things. ;)
-
It's true. Old anti-fraud tech.
Laser printers only. Uses a yellow dot matrix which gives the Make, model & serial number of the printer.
Not scanning notes in the EU is software looking for the yellow stars normally found in the centre part of the note.
-
BTW, this coding system could be a nice way to proof it's your print made on your printer or a counterfeit.
Hi Ernst,
Well one can also use a standardized barcode for that, e.g. the attached "www.luminous-landscape.com" in Code128, and print it with very small height in light yellow. By not using full height, it would be hardly noticeable. Scanning it (blue channel only), and resizing it vertically with nearest neighbor would allow regular detection.
Cheers,
Bart
-
Oh no. Now they're going to confiscate my prints from my clients, and come after me for impersonating a landscape photographer.
I knew they'd figure me out eventually.
-
Pretty clear the conspiracy theorists don't work with actual IT security, which is something I do.
All mechanical based printers leave a characteristic signature that a decent forensics team can use to trace counterfeit currency, which is the main purpose. Printers don't need to make a spacial serial number or dot pattern.
The conversation is really about if printers actively register with some external agency, and the answer is no. Even *if* this technology were implanted in printers it wouldn't work (mechanical variances in print heads due to mass chinese manufacturing would be overwhelming). Retailers (online and local) have a warehouse full of boxed printers, and consumers come in and buy them. There is nothing to trace 'X' printer to 'X' consumer other than maybe a registration card if you bother to fill it out. If a printer were to 'phone home' with it's serial number all you would have is a vague IP address on an ISP connecting it to the location and it would be easily spotted with a firewall.
-
Pretty clear the conspiracy theorists don't work with actual IT security, which is something I do.
All mechanical based printers leave a characteristic signature that a decent forensics team can use to trace counterfeit currency, which is the main purpose. Printers don't need to make a spacial serial number or dot pattern.
The conversation is really about if printers actively register with some external agency, and the answer is no. Even *if* this technology were implanted in printers it wouldn't work (mechanical variances in print heads due to mass chinese manufacturing would be overwhelming). Retailers (online and local) have a warehouse full of boxed printers, and consumers come in and buy them. There is nothing to trace 'X' printer to 'X' consumer other than maybe a registration card if you bother to fill it out. If a printer were to 'phone home' with it's serial number all you would have is a vague IP address on an ISP connecting it to the location and it would be easily spotted with a firewall.
Less optimistic IT security employees could be a good thing. Yes, every printer has its characteristics, that knowledge started already with handwriting, typewriters, etc. Though you still have to locate that typewriter, printer, before you can make the match. So to have a serial code hidden in the output makes that part easier. That firewall might interfere with the installation of several printer software apps including the driver so the nice advice to temp. switch the firewall off for the install is enough to make things easier for tracing that printer when the need is there. I do not mind the measures taken but wonder what the relevance of prints is nowadays.
You do not need to be a conspiracy theorist when leaks by Snowden, Assange, reveal what the reality is. If I add a nice terrorist name to this message I am sure the sieves in the USA and UK will catch this message too. The Dutch will take care of my phone calls over here. I do not even object as long as there isn't a less integer guy somewhere who has his own agenda for the data collected. Neither do I think politicians make the right decisions even when correctly informed. We have seen an odd mix of idealism and capitalistic short term thinking in Western politics and less Realpolitik, all since the iron curtain was taken down. Maybe because we then thought that our system was the best instead of making the assumption that the other system failed due to inherent flaws. This attitude did not change with 9/11, the economic crash or during the Arabic Spring and we can see the chaos it created every day now. Next evolution might be Christian extremism though I hope it will be isolationism for some time to come, Canada gives a sign of the last. Off Topic for sure but I am glad it is off my chest for this hour.
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2014 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots
-
Dang this is funny....
FED: "We've tracked this photo back to you, bud, what do you have to say for yourself?"
ME: "But I 'like' cat photos!"
FED: "Off with his head!"
Rand
-
Well said, Ernst.
-
...The conversation is really about if printers actively register with some external agency, and the answer is no. Even *if* this technology were implanted in printers it wouldn't work (mechanical variances in print heads due to mass chinese manufacturing would be overwhelming). Retailers (online and local) have a warehouse full of boxed printers, and consumers come in and buy them. There is nothing to trace 'X' printer to 'X' consumer other than maybe a registration card if you bother to fill it out. If a printer were to 'phone home' with it's serial number all you would have is a vague IP address on an ISP connecting it to the location and it would be easily spotted with a firewall.
Swell, another one o' them "logic" fellas. Next you'll be telling us that chemtrails are nothing but condensed water vapor. :'(