Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Digital Cameras & Shooting Techniques => Topic started by: stamper on July 21, 2015, 11:09:23 am
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Can anyone give a compelling reason for not using a long zoom lens to shoot street photography? A lens that is longer than the oft quoted 50mm prime. I am not thinking about a long lens on a DSLR but something like this on a mirror less camera such as the Panasonic GX7 that isn't conspicuous.
http://www.photographyblog.com/reviews/tamron_14_150mm_f_3_5_5_8_di_iii_review/
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Wel Robert, if it is a compelling reason I don't know, more of a personal oberservation, these points come to mind:
1: I've indeed always thought one could with a long lens shoot streetstyle portraits of people while they are not aware being photographed (or even more important: not slap you in the face because they don't appreciate being photographed at all..) thus creating a different sort of portrait, which I thought at the time was nice. However looking back and re-evaluating these about a year onward they seem less special, or as a good friend and honest reviewer put it: they "lack" something...that "something' might be intimacy or a true personal connection between photographer and subject...i really don't know. Not that they are really bad pictures I think, otherwise I'd had deleted them, but maybe they show what I mean:
Here's three examples of these, taken with a 300mm on APS-c (450mm FF equivalent).
https://www.flickr.com/photos/kickmansch/14847688176/in/dateposted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/kickmansch/15240269212/in/dateposted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/kickmansch/15261812075/in/dateposted-public/
2: Isn't Streetphotography (as clearly opposed to Landscape) mostly about "growing a pair of brass b@lls", getting out there on the street, putting your self on the spot, when necessary communicate with total strangers, wait endlessly, beg, or be bold etc, etc.
and then come away with that great shot, maybe a few. In many of this sort of photographs I like how the field of view of a wide-ish angle makes it look like the viewer is really inside the scene photographed, impossible with a (very) long lens.
Best Regards, Sander
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Maybe "conspicuous" isn't necessarily a problem -- "Using a telephoto lens enables him to keep a distance, to observe from afar without making contact. If, as sometimes happens, he sets up his tripod right in the middle of the street, people pass either side, registering an obstacle, not a confrontation (http://www.tate.org.uk/whats-on/tate-britain/exhibition/art-now-beat-streuli)."
"With the aid of a telephoto lens (http://www.we-heart.com/2012/11/26/new-street-beat-streuli/), Streuli presents intimate portraits of his subjects, as if they’re a conscious participant in each shot – the results are precise moments in time that blur reality; often appearing more movie still than secret snapshot."
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Shorter focal length create a different perspective, being right there in the middle
Longer focal length create more distance (not only physically) and are observing from the outside.
I think both styles are valid, it's more a choice as photographer what you want to do.
And Sander, I think your portrait in the rain of the guy with the yellow hood is very good. I agree the other two miss something, not bad but not the same as that first one.
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Thanks for the replies. Most experienced photographers seem to be wanting to be in among the action instead of a spectator. I prefer to be a spectator. Is the close up idea something that experienced photographers prefer because of experience or is it a case of some aping a cult hero?
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Sander your images seem to fall into the category of candid portraits rather than "street" That isn't a criticism.
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Sander your images seem to fall into the category of candid portraits rather than "street" That isn't a criticism.
Yep that is a better description, and they couldn't be street anyhow as they were all taken aboard a ship :D
Pieter: I liked the one of the fisherman best as well, gave a print to him as a token of gratitude for being invited to this boattrip every year. Despite the seemingly serious atmosphere in the images it's a lot of fun: a bunch of scientists and students and entusiasts (paleontologists) make use of the fishing boat dredging the bottom of the Oosterschelde for prehistoric material, (mammoth bones, etc.) Bones are found, mussels are served and white wine goes so well with those..
Best Regards, Sander
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Street photographs are usually about spontaneous moments of people in context with their environment. Normal to wider lenses are used to get the location and scene as well as the physical need to be in or close to the scene to spot and capture the moment. With a long lens, situations and moments between people will be harder to spot or react to and the compressed perspective with more out of focus background will usually make for a more detached ‘street portrait’ picture.
Try it and if it gives you the results you want go for it - there are no rules. There are many situations where being close to someone and taking a picture with a camera just isn’t possible.
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Nowadays whenever I see someone—almost always a guy—photographing with a long lens out in "the street" it reminds me of the creepy dudes my traveling companions and I encountered in Eilat, Israel in early 1988. Eilat is a kind of seaside resort town with lots of tourist traffic, lots of youth hostels & pubs/bars and a long bikini-tops-optional beach. Not sure actually if the tops-optional part is still true given changes in Israeli society since then. Anyway, while soaking up some sun we'd often notice a scattering of men hanging back a bit from the beach proper, milling around with their big-lens-equipped cameras in hand. (My girlfriend at the time seemed to get a kick out of catching the attention of one or more of 'em and then giving 'em the finger. :D In retrospect, though, this might not have been so wise…) Occasionally an opportunity on the beach would present itself, a lens would quickly be raised up & focused and photos would be taken. My friend Kees chatted up one of these guys one afternoon and discovered the guy made regular visits from his home country mainly to do this thing. Eeewwww…
In 2004 I bought a 70–300mm lens for my then Canon 20D while in NYC. Right afterwards I headed for Times Square to give the lens a test run, and while snapping away focused on a woman giving me a very annoyed scowl. I immediately flashed on those predator dudes in Eilat…and put the zoom away.
-Dave-
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Use whatever focal length suits the subject you are shooting.
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from time to time Michael has posted longer focal length "street/candid" images and has commented on using longer lenses. There have been a couple articles lately on longer lenses for landscapes and there are similar arguments to be made for "street".
I like the Pany 70-200 on my GX7 a lot.
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The lens that is posted in the link at the top of the thread is small and wouldn't be considered physically large by anyone in the public. Mounted on the Lumix GX7 it is 5 inches from the back of the camera body to the front of the lens excluding the hood. Very compact. However some street "purists" would probably dismiss it as "not being the right set up".
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from time to time Michael has posted longer focal length "street/candid" images and has commented on using longer lenses. There have been a couple articles lately on longer lenses for landscapes and there are similar arguments to be made for "street".
I like the Pany 70-200 on my GX7 a lot.
I will look at the 70-200. Thanks for the post.
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It depends... if you are taking photos for a particular documentary project or story, you would want to have many types of shots and framings.
If all you want is to wander in the streets with no particular objective in mind, then a tele lens (zoom or not) is a valid approach to get some interesting snaps. This "risk" here is that if you are out taking photos with a tele lens, and your subject notices what you are doing, he/she will be most likely p*ssed because you were taking photos using a sneak approach.
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from time to time Michael has posted longer focal length "street/candid" images and has commented on using longer lenses. There have been a couple articles lately on longer lenses for landscapes and there are similar arguments to be made for "street".
I like the Pany 70-200 on my GX7 a lot.
Do you mean the 35-100 (equiv to 70-200)?
There are two versions of that lens - I bought the smaller version (f4-f5.6) and is very sharp but would love the much more expensive f2.8.
If you do not need f2.8 then the f4-5.6 is an excellent alternative.
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There might be some who think that using a telephoto lens moves the photography away from street photography and more in the creepy surveillance/stalking realm.
I think such a photographer would end up garnering more attention than one taking photographs with a shorter lens "in the action".
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There might be some who think that using a telephoto lens moves the photography away from street photography and more in the creepy surveillance/stalking realm.
I think such a photographer would end up garnering more attention than one taking photographs with a shorter lens "in the action".
If the photographer was using a DSLR and a 70-200 lens then you would possibly be correct but a small camera and lens which I have described then I think unlikely. Instead of trying to hide then pose as a tourist and in my case an obviously ageing tourist. :)
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Use whatever focal length suits the subject you are shooting.
In street photography the subject is constantly changing?
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Hi,
Long time ago I used the 35-350mm from Canon for that purpose. Unfortunately I was stupid enough and traded it in for a 70-200mm f/2.8. Not that I do not like the 70-200mm but I do miss that 35-350mm zoom which I baptized as a touristing lens ;D
I think the 28-300mm would be a good alternative, except for the disadvantage that when zooming that thing grows to nearly the double size from 28 to 300mm, whereas the below mentioned lenses do not change its size or the change is minimal.
Maybe the 28-135mm or a 24-105mm. Wirh 24mm you can get shots of people near you without them noticing it as they see a more or less medium sized lens.
24-70mm ?
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For me, context is all-important in street. When you shoot long lenses, you lose the context, IMO.
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I'm having fun shooting with my Sigma 70-300mm at my local park that has a high look out hilltop point. I'll pan around on the opposite descending side of the hill and capture folks enjoying the view on the opposite side.
People are interspersed in separate groups forming mini dioramas with their own somewhat out of focus backdrop that seems out of place and off kilter considering it's on top of a hill around this area. With just a slight pan, zoom in/zoom out I keep coming across interesting compositions from the telephoto compression effect.
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For me, context is all-important in street. When you shoot long lenses, you lose the context, IMO.
I see where you are coming from. Did you read Michael's recent article on shooting landscapes with a long lens? He, and others, seemed to have shot landscapes with the tele end of the lens and still managed to shoot in context. It all depends on how far away you are? Does someone want to be part of the action and thus get close in or stand back and be more of a spectator?
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A lot depends on how comfortable the photographer is in approaching people and the perspective they want for their images. People have historically used the 50mm lens as it was the easiest focal length to use with rangefinder cameras like the Leicas and it carried over to SLR film cameras where the f1.4 speed helped when common film emulsions were ASA 400 or slower. Quality autofocus zoom lenses also did not exist, with a few rare exceptions, and so this forced people to use prime lenses.
Completely different situation today with f2.8 zooms and ISO 6400 DSLR cameras but there is still a belief that a serious photographer will only use prime lenses on the part of non-pro photographers. On the other hand a lens like the 70-200mm is large and conspicuous and it is going to limit your street photography as a result.
There are multiple elements affected by the focal length of a lens and this includes image magnification, image size as percent of viewfinder/sensor, compression, and field of view. Compression and reduced field of view are two reasons for going with a long telephoto lens and this can make for more flattering pictures of people without requiring much thought on the part of the photographer.
Personally I find that the area in a scene that captures my attention is best expressed or captured with a 105mm lens. It provides the image size I want with double the camera to subject distance of a 50mm lens. People have a personal space that varies by culture, age, gender, and their perception of the photographer. Get too close and people will tense up unconsciously and this shows in the pictures that are taken.
I also like the 105mm focal length on a full frame camera as I can use it both indoors and outside. Longer focal lengths are difficult to work with indoors and this includes indoor markets where I take pictures of vendors and shoppers. I don't have much working space and a longer lens would be much more restrictive.
Overall the lens I use for 85% of my people photographs is a 24-70mm f2.8 lens that provides the field of view options I want and is fast enough to use indoors and at night with more than enough light for the autofocus sensors to respond quickly and get shots in the moment(s). The 24-105mm focal length range is even better but I have had problems in the past with low light autofocus with the f4 maximum aperture. With current cameras it might not be a problem and if I was a Canon shooter I would probably own one.
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Try one of these Right Angle Mirror (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/614991-REG/Bower_VL152_VL152_52mm_Right_Angle.html)...
I've used one years ago when I felt uncomfortable having people see me shoot them.
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A lot depends on how comfortable the photographer is in approaching people and the perspective they want for their images. People have historically used the 50mm lens as it was the easiest focal length to use with rangefinder cameras like the Leicas and it carried over to SLR film cameras where the f1.4 speed helped when common film emulsions were ASA 400 or slower. Quality autofocus zoom lenses also did not exist, with a few rare exceptions, and so this forced people to use prime lenses.
Completely different situation today with f2.8 zooms and ISO 6400 DSLR cameras but there is still a belief that a serious photographer will only use prime lenses on the part of non-pro photographers. On the other hand a lens like the 70-200mm is large and conspicuous and it is going to limit your street photography as a result.
There are multiple elements affected by the focal length of a lens and this includes image magnification, image size as percent of viewfinder/sensor, compression, and field of view. Compression and reduced field of view are two reasons for going with a long telephoto lens and this can make for more flattering pictures of people without requiring much thought on the part of the photographer.
Personally I find that the area in a scene that captures my attention is best expressed or captured with a 105mm lens. It provides the image size I want with double the camera to subject distance of a 50mm lens. People have a personal space that varies by culture, age, gender, and their perception of the photographer. Get too close and people will tense up unconsciously and this shows in the pictures that are taken.
I also like the 105mm focal length on a full frame camera as I can use it both indoors and outside. Longer focal lengths are difficult to work with indoors and this includes indoor markets where I take pictures of vendors and shoppers. I don't have much working space and a longer lens would be much more restrictive.
Overall the lens I use for 85% of my people photographs is a 24-70mm f2.8 lens that provides the field of view options I want and is fast enough to use indoors and at night with more than enough light for the autofocus sensors to respond quickly and get shots in the moment(s). The 24-105mm focal length range is even better but I have had problems in the past with low light autofocus with the f4 maximum aperture. With current cameras it might not be a problem and if I was a Canon shooter I would probably own one.
This is what I was wondering about. Why photographers started off using primes. Thanks for the information.
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Compression and reduced field of view are two reasons for going with a long telephoto lens and this can make for more flattering pictures of people without requiring much thought on the part of the photographer.
I'm going to have to disagree with you on the "without much thought" part of your opinion. The above posted shot took a lot of thought and time that included deciding on whether to squat or stand, step back or move in closer, all while slowly panning side to side while constantly adjusting focal length and focus. Any slight move up/down/side to side lost the composition. When the subject moved there was another composition just waiting to be had by slowly panning to keep them in frame. They move just two feet and the background changes abruptly and sometimes foreground objects move in to fill empty space within the frame and BINGO! I have another composition I wouldn't have seen without a long lens.
In addition at 300mm it was very disorienting hunting for the composition compared to shooting say at 50-100mm depending on where the subjects were. The Francis Ford Coppola movie "The Conversation" demonstrated this constant panning of the lens to keep up with the subjects being surveilled from far away while maintaining interesting compositions. A photographer can't see that without looking through the viewfinder which makes it a disorienting experience.
Shorter lenses allow the photographer to just look around and spot their compositions and make slight adjustments to focal length before tripping the shutter.
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Use whatever focal length suits the subject you are shooting.
In street photography the subject is constantly changing?
Not necessarily. Either way, use whatever focal length is appropriate.
Besides they have these new fangled things called zooms which allow you to choose a variety of focal lengths. :P
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Try one of these Right Angle Mirror (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/614991-REG/Bower_VL152_VL152_52mm_Right_Angle.html)...
I've used one years ago when I felt uncomfortable having people see me shoot them.
I prefer to hide in plain sight.
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I prefer to hide in plain sight.
The very best way...you hang out, people notice you and then you disappear.
Peter
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Indeed.
Plus if you use wide lenses you can be very close to people without them realising they are being photographed.
In this case if using a bulky DSLR with a large w/a zoom lens, people will often incorrectly assume it's a telephoto.