Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: voidshatter on June 10, 2015, 02:16:37 pm
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A7rII:
42MP Full-Frame Exmor R BSI CMOS Sensor
BIONZ X Image Processor
5-Axis SteadyShot INSIDE Stabilization
399 Phase-Detect AF Points & 5 fps Burst
Internal 4K XAVC S Video & S-Log2 Gamma
Weather-Resistant Magnesium Alloy Body
Built-In Wi-Fi Connectivity with NFC
ISO 102,400
no shutter blade motion
3,5x faster than the A7r
A7rII focus is almost 40% faster than the one of the A7r
Shipping in August
Back-illuminated CMOS means possible compatibility with technical camera lenses, and 100MP in 645 format. No longer need to live with the poor dynamic range of IQ380 and 5DSR. We can dream!
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BSI CMOS:
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yeah the BSI design might make a A7rII on a tech camera a really sweet combination.
I use an A7r as backup and for some shoots, the in body stabilization and better sensor (it sounds like silent mode would mean electronic first curtain) sounds terrific. I may start exploring how to use my Rodenstock glass on this body when I get it.
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Back-illuminated CMOS means possible compatibility with technical camera lenses, and 100MP in 645 format. No longer need to live with the poor dynamic range of IQ380 and 5DSR. We can dream!
It's definitely a good option for a tech camera and great glass.
Can you explain how a 35mm size 42MP CMOS chip becomes a 100MP in 645 format? Who will be making this 100MP 645 format chip? When will this chip be produced?
Have you tested an IQ380? Could you release a raw file. What do you mean by "poor dynamic range"?
regards,
Jeffery
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As great as this camera is (would probably replace my Nikon setup) if only we had a forum for 35mm related discussions! If only there was a rule that this forum is for medium and large format discussions only!
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It's definitely a good option for a tech camera and great glass.
Can you explain how a 35mm size 42MP CMOS chip becomes a 100MP in 645 format? Who will be making this 100MP 645 format chip? When will this chip be produced?
Have you tested an IQ380? Could you release a raw file. What do you mean by "poor dynamic range"?
regards,
Jeffery
Jeffrey, may I ask: Are you a little biased towards P1? Saw that promo video on youtube...
I think it is clear that P1 is dependent upon Sony re their CMOS offering. If I remember it right, the IQ250 / 350 is based on the Sony chip. So if a bigger CMOS comes around, it probably will be when Sony decides to do it.
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Jeez - tough crowd. I find this pretty interesting in a MF context.
1. Currently no 645 CMOS sensor on the photo market
2. Current highest-res MF sensors have issues w/ some wide-angle lenses
3. Sony shows the largest BSI CMOS sensor so far. Many are hopeful that BSI sensors will be more compatible w/ wide angle lenses & movements.
4. A Sony 100MP 645 BSI CMOS sensor would be more interesting to me than any current MF offering.
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This is extremely exciting for me as a MFD tech cam owner. Much more exciting than Phase One's new camera body.
For each sensor generation tech camera wide angle and movement support has become worse, it's not been a good trend. It was even looking likely that Rodenstock Digaron could be semi-obsoleted by next generation CMOS (according to me they already are with the current CMOS, but that's a different story) like Schneider Digitar wides were semi-obsoleted by Dalsa 6um.
In fact, I've been thinking that my current CCD may be the last MFD camera I own because it has seemed that 135 and MFD is converging to the same type of lens designs and sort of similar camera designs, some sort of mirrorless with limited movements. I know many love the ALPA FPS, but that's not my idea of a tech camera. I want large format style view camera with rich movements and preferably symmetrical lenses, and when we have live view it's just so perfect, but the CMOS haven't been able to do movements or wides. If ALPA FPS type of camera is the next logical step due to sensor limitations I rather use 135.
And voila, BSI is coming to a larger sensor than ever before, and made by the only CMOS MFD provider, Sony. Maybe it will be in next generation MF CMOS. There's hope again. It's still unseen if BSI really gives us wide angular response in practice (it's not the reason they do it, it's for sensitivity, wide angular response is just a side effect), but it's quite likely. With Actus cameras etc we'll be able to test it using A7rII.
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This is extremely exciting for me as a MFD tech cam owner. Much more exciting than Phase One's new camera body.
For each sensor generation tech camera wide angle and movement support has become worse, it's not been a good trend. It was even looking likely that Rodenstock Digaron could be semi-obsoleted by next generation CMOS (according to me they already are with the current CMOS, but that's a different story) like Schneider Digitar wides were semi-obsoleted by Dalsa 6um.
In fact, I've been thinking that my current CCD may be the last MFD camera I own because it has seemed that 135 and MFD is converging to the same type of lens designs and sort of similar camera designs, some sort of mirrorless with limited movements. I know many love the ALPA FPS, but that's not my idea of a tech camera. I want large format style view camera with movements, and when we have live view it's just so perfect, but the CMOS haven't been able to do movements or wides. If ALPA FPS type of camera is the next logical step due to sensor limitations I rather use 135.
And voila, BSI is coming to a larger sensor than ever before, and made by the only CMOS MFD provider, Sony. Maybe it will be in next generation MF CMOS. There's hope again. It's still unseen if BSI really gives us wide angular response in practice (it's not the reason they do it, it's for sensitivity, wide angular response is just a side effect), but it's quite likely.
Torger, is there a way to use the A7R2 with an Alpa Max?
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Jeez - tough crowd. I find this pretty interesting in a MF context.
1. Currently no 645 CMOS sensor on the photo market
2. Current highest-res MF sensors have issues w/ some wide-angle lenses
3. Sony shows the largest BSI CMOS sensor so far. Many are hopeful that BSI sensors will be more compatible w/ wide angle lenses & movements.
4. A Sony 100MP 645 BSI CMOS sensor would be more interesting to me than any current MF offering.
Are BSI sensors also supposed to have higher DR? Just know that ISO is better?
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Are BSI sensors also supposed to have higher DR?
BSI is to compensate reduction in sensel size by moving schemotechnic behind the illuminated (not during the manufacturing process but when you make a shot) sensor surface... and more light that you can capture = higher DR.
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And hopefully less colorcast with movements. This camera plus a Arca universal or Cambo Aptus, oh boy.
Paul
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Hi,
Full frame 645 is something like 2.6 times larger than 24x36, so would a full frame 645 be built using the same pixel pitch it would be around 110 MP.
Sony is making the sensor in all the new 50 MP CMOS backs, so it would be within the realm of possibility that Sony would make an MFD chip using this technology.
Best regards
Erik
It's definitely a good option for a tech camera and great glass.
Can you explain how a 35mm size 42MP CMOS chip becomes a 100MP in 645 format? Who will be making this 100MP 645 format chip? When will this chip be produced?
Have you tested an IQ380? Could you release a raw file. What do you mean by "poor dynamic range"?
regards,
Jeffery
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Jeffrey, may I ask: Are you a little biased towards P1? Saw that promo video on youtube...
No. Thank you for watching it.
On my desk is a Super D Graflex an awesome 4 x 5 SLR. Its really unfortunate that Fuji and Kodak discontinued readyloads otherwise I would try and shoot every assignment with it. Glad to have been featured for my photography efforts in a few PHASE ONE videos. Not biased towards P1 just love my craft. I really love photography. I have a lot of respect for craftsman who work years designing and testing the photography gear we all use to express our visions.
The OP said, “We no longer have to live with the poor dynamic range of IQ380 and the 5DSR” How would he know what the DR of IQ380 is unless he has a raw file. How does this blind assertion improve anyone’s photography? I guess he has never driven through Missouri...The show me state.
I understand architectural photographers are going the the route of using the Sony S7 series cameras on view cameras this is quite cool. A great development for tech view camera users.
When the chip makers decide to sell or license 100 MP CMOs sensors, it just seems to me new lenses will have to be made as well. So if you are a designer or manufacturer of photography lenses, what size sensors do you design for...100 MP, 200 MP, 300 MP or etc? Does sensor development lead optical development or is it the other way around? Is there any publicly available research on what is happening with optics?
I think it is clear that P1 is dependent upon Sony re their CMOS offering. If I remember it right, the IQ250 / 350 is based on the Sony chip. So if a bigger CMOS comes around, it probably will be when Sony decides to do it.
Ok. I believe that you believe that. It really doesn't matter to me who manufactures the CMOS sensor. What's important to me is the camera system. Professional tools that facilitate in the creation of quality professional work.
regards,
Jeffery
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Full frame 645 is something like 2.6 times larger than 24x36, so would a full frame 645 be built using the same pixel pitch it would be around 110 MP.
Sony is making the sensor in all the new 50 MP CMOS backs, so it would be within the realm of possibility that Sony would make an MFD chip using this technology.
Best regards
Erik
Thank you Erik.
Is possible they have already made the 110 MP chips? And if so what if any changes need to be made in optics or camera platforms to fully benefit from the larger chips?
Jeffery
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And hopefully less colorcast with movements. This camera plus a Arca universal or Cambo Aptus, oh boy.
Paul,
Exactly, the guys at Cambo must be in heaven!
I'll most probably get that combo.
Cheers,
Bernard
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The OP said, “We no longer have to live with the poor dynamic range of IQ380 and the 5DSR” How would he know what the DR of IQ380 is unless he has a raw file. How does this blind assertion improve anyone’s photography? I guess he has never driven through Missouri...The show me state.
Jeffery
It is well documented that the IQ180 and the IQ280 has less dynamic range than a 3-year old Nikon D800E (Sony IMX094 CMOS sensor). At getdpi I have posted RAW files taken by me, as well as quantatitive data measured by different websites. If you believe in a miracle that the IQ380 has an improvement over the IQ280 then feel free to go ahead with an IQ380 and compare it against a Nikon D800E/Sony A7R and post the RAW files so I can teach you why Dalsa CCD sensors have inferior dynamic range than Sony CMOS. (Hint: try to cool down the IQ380 so you can slap in my face.)
Oh well, you need me to show you how gear performance makes a difference when capturing an image? What is your definition of good photography?
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It is well documented that the IQ180 and the IQ280 has less dynamic range than a 3-year old Nikon D800E (Sony IMX094 CMOS sensor). At get dpi I have posted RAW files taken by me, as well as quantatitive data measured by different websites. If you believe in a miracle that the IQ380 has an improvement over the IQ280 then feel free to go ahead with an IQ380 and compare it against a Nikon D800E/Sony A7R and post the RAW files so I can teach you why Dalsa CCD sensors have inferior dynamic range than Sony CMOS. (Hint: try to cool down the IQ380 so you can slap my face.)
That's just silly---and really not in context. The IQ180/280 may have less DR on paper than a Sony sensor, but that does not mean that they (IQ180/280 Dalsa sensor) have "poor dynamic range" or the "poor dynamic range" of the IQ380, a new MFDB that has yet to be released yet! I really doubt that all those absolutely drop dead gorgeous images made by these MFDBs has been simply turned into trash overnight with the introduction of a Sony sensor.
I think most would agree that DR is nice, but it is the entirety of the system as a whole that really gets the work done.
ken
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why doesnt phase stick a pelletier effect cooler in the backs, that one can activate when needed?
That's just silly---and really not in context. The IQ180/280 may have less DR on paper than a Sony sensor, but that does not mean that they (IQ180/280 Dalsa sensor) have "poor dynamic range" or the "poor dynamic range" of the IQ380, a new MFDB that has yet to be released yet! I really doubt that all those absolutely drop dead gorgeous images made by these MFDBs has been simply turned into trash overnight with the introduction of a Sony sensor.
I think most would agree that DR is nice, but it is the entirety of the system as a whole that really gets the work done.
ken
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Canon is getting ready to pump up TS glass production! :D
Eduardo
Paul,
Exactly, the guys at Cambo must be in heaven!
I'll most probably get that combo.
Cheers,
Bernard
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It is well documented that the IQ180 and the IQ280 has less dynamic range than a 3-year old Nikon D800E (Sony IMX094 CMOS sensor). At getdpi I have posted RAW files taken by me, as well as quantatitive data measured by different websites. If you believe in a miracle that the IQ380 has an improvement over the IQ280 then feel free to go ahead with an IQ380 and compare it against a Nikon D800E/Sony A7R and post the RAW files so I can teach you why Dalsa CCD sensors have inferior dynamic range than Sony CMOS. (Hint: try to cool down the IQ380 so you can slap in my face.)
Oh well, you need me to show you how gear performance makes a difference when capturing an image? What is your definition of good photography?
VS -
I think the issue that pokes at most is when you describe excellent products as having "poor dynamic range". You've made plenty of reasonable arguments and examples that show the benefit of (Sony) CMOS sensors for dynamic range and especially push-ability. Perhaps it's just a matter of semantics, but if you framed your argument and examples as *Sony CMOS having better dynamic range*, rather than *anything else being poor or insufficient*, you might actually become someone who is looked to for beneficial information, rather than someone who seems intent on distortion to pursue some sort of agenda.
There would be nothing wrong with making that subtle change in delivery, that I can see.
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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VS -
I think the issue that pokes at most is when you describe excellent products as having "poor dynamic range". You've made plenty of reasonable arguments and examples that show the benefit of (Sony) CMOS sensors for dynamic range and especially push-ability. Perhaps it's just a matter of semantics, but if you framed your argument and examples as *Sony CMOS having better dynamic range*, rather than *anything else being poor or insufficient*, you might actually become someone who is looked to for beneficial information, rather than someone who seems intent on distortion to pursue some sort of agenda.
There would be nothing wrong with making that subtle change in delivery, that I can see.
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
In case anyone wishes to recycle an IQ280, I would be willing to transport it to the landfill free of charge :)
Edmund
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Somebody please write to Bruce Percy informing him of the "Poor" dynamic range of all the Velvia he has been using!
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Somebody please write to Bruce Percy informing him of the "Poor" dynamic range of all the Velvia he has been using!
+1
Edmund
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Somebody please write to Bruce Percy informing him of the "Poor" dynamic range of all the Velvia he has been using!
Right. A brand new Tata GenX Nano XTA (costing the same as a Zeiss Otus 85mm f1.4 btw) bought in Margao is able to bring a person from point A to point B so the owners of larger/faster/more comfortable cars are just imagining that those aspects are important to them.
Cheers,
Bernard
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I challenge someone to shoot a sharper, larger, single image than the IQ280 puts out. You'd be pulling out sheet film, and oh yea, you don't get a second chance with it. There are times when there is no option, the 80mp shot is what I want. Like today, helicopter flight would have loved the IQ380 on a XF body for iso200+ 1/1200th shots, but alas I was shooting my H4 and was at ISO50/100 limited to 1/800th.
I like that Sony is doing lots with their CMOS, more so because that tech will end up in the follow on chip used in the IQ250/-50c/645z. Ditto for Canon, though I personally am more interested in the 5DsR due to the AF and great white supertele lens. Since both should be supported by CaptureOne for tethering, there is all types of fun possible
The upside for the MF market, and more specifically the pro, folks will see what higher resolution looks like, but due to end user not being knowledgeable about how to extract the best image from it, I can come in and charge accordingly. :)
-Joe
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I challenge someone to shoot a sharper, larger, single image than the IQ280 puts out. You'd be pulling out sheet film, and oh yea, you don't get a second chance with it. There are times when there is no option, the 80mp shot is what I want. Like today, helicopter flight would have loved the IQ380 on a XF body for iso200+ 1/1200th shots, but alas I was shooting my H4 and was at ISO50/100 limited to 1/800th.
I like that Sony is doing lots with their CMOS, more so because that tech will end up in the follow on chip used in the IQ250/-50c/645z. Ditto for Canon, though I personally am more interested in the 5DsR due to the AF and great white supertele lens. Since both should be supported by CaptureOne for tethering, there is all types of fun possible
The upside for the MF market, and more specifically the pro, folks will see what higher resolution looks like, but due to end user not being knowledgeable about how to extract the best image from it, I can come in and charge accordingly. :)
-Joe
It looks like the new A7RII can AF the Canon lenses with a really simple adapter.
Edmund
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They are not mentioning if the A7R II has an improved raw file format (uncompressed). The current models pre cook the files and show compression artifacts in certain situations. Besides that, I'm quite excited to replace by two existing A7R bodies with the new ones. I wonder what the old ones can be sold for….
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I have felt that the MF look is still different from the smaller formats, but I'll be very interested to see what this new Sony can do. The 5 axis on sensor stabilization, new sensor and other refinements do sound really excellent. I'm sure they will sell a lot of these. I'd like to see the sensor stabilization find its way into MFDB.
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I wonder what the old ones can be sold for….
Less tomorrow than yesterday ;)
But then for all digital gear that holds true, the rate of descent may vary.
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Somebody please write to Bruce Percy informing him of the "Poor" dynamic range of all the Velvia he has been using!
QUOTE
Which brings me on to the subject of dynamic range. My film only has around 3 to 4 stops, but it turns out that most of the beautiful light we are seeking tends to happen within this small dynamic range anyway. I'm never too sure why there is such a desire at the moment to get more and more dynamic range, as I feel that one of the skills of a photographer is to learn to work with the confines of what we're given. END QUOTE
http://www.brucepercy.co.uk/blog/
May 9th 2015
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QUOTE
Which brings me on to the subject of dynamic range. My film only has around 3 to 4 stops, but it turns out that most of the beautiful light we are seeking tends to happen within this small dynamic range anyway. I'm never too sure why there is such a desire at the moment to get more and more dynamic range, as I feel that one of the skills of a photographer is to learn to work with the confines of what we're given. END QUOTE
http://www.brucepercy.co.uk/blog/
May 9th 2015
In general photographers like to talk about their own shooting style and assume that everyone else should shoot the same way. The need of dynamic range is much related to the shooting style and post-processing style. Personally I don't need that much, my images are more often shot in overcast weather and without sky visible than otherwise. Not all shoot that kind of images and I don't expect others should. In fact I hope that few do as it makes my style more personal :)
When it comes to light I can agree with Bruce that the light I like the most fits in a relatively small dynamic range. But, there are many other styles of photography and it's not hard to find those that make extensive use of the new possibilities through very high dynamic range, especially in the more broadly popular styles.
But BSI coming to large sensors... oh boy! Can't wait to see how it performs with say an SK35 or SK28 with 15mm shift! It's hard to predict how well it will perform though, in the best of worlds it's a real new start for tech cams, and just imagine if Hassy make a CFV-50c II with similar pricing as the current.
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Wonderful texture in this image. I like it.
Edmund.
In general photographers like to talk about their own shooting style and assume that everyone else should shoot the same way. The need of dynamic range is much related to the shooting style and post-processing style. Personally I don't need that much, my images are more often shot in overcast weather and without sky visible than otherwise. Not all shoot that kind of images and I don't expect others should. In fact I hope that few do as it makes my style more personal :)
When it comes to light I can agree with Bruce that the light I like the most fits in a relatively small dynamic range. But, there are many other styles of photography and it's not hard to find those that make extensive use of the new possibilities through very high dynamic range, especially in the more broadly popular styles.
But BSI coming to large sensors... oh boy! Can't wait to see how it performs with say an SK35 or SK28 with 15mm shift! It's hard to predict how well it will perform though, in the best of worlds it's a real new start for tech cams, and just imagine if Hassy make a CFV-50c II with similar pricing as the current.
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Wonderful texture in this image. I like it.
Thank you.
It's a willow tree partially broke in pieces after a record winter in terms of snow depth. Many trees around here did not stand up for the pressure of all snow.
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Hi,
This is sort of limiting our vision to what or equipment can handle.
I have been shooting Velvia since it's inception, as I was looking for a replacement for Kodachrome when I felt processing times were no more acceptable.
What I can say is that it is difficult to scan. I would say drum scanning may be needed to scan in properly, even if it may be as good to dupe it with a sensor having high DR. Density range on that film is around 4.0 some something like 13 EV is needed to handle it properly.
Even if the subject just covers 4-5 EV, I still would suggest that a sensor having a wide DR will be able to reproduce darks better than a 5EV sensor.
Cell phone sensors have a significant limitation in DR.
Zacuto demonstrated that movie quality motion picture can be made with an iPhone 4S, if illumination was adjusted to match the capabilities of the sensor. Most DPs seem not to regard a a low DR as a virtue and use more expensive gear.
Best regards
Erik
QUOTE
Which brings me on to the subject of dynamic range. My film only has around 3 to 4 stops, but it turns out that most of the beautiful light we are seeking tends to happen within this small dynamic range anyway. I'm never too sure why there is such a desire at the moment to get more and more dynamic range, as I feel that one of the skills of a photographer is to learn to work with the confines of what we're given. END QUOTE
http://www.brucepercy.co.uk/blog/
May 9th 2015
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"I feel that one of the skills of a photographer is to learn to work with the confines of what we're given"
What we are being given is an opportunity now to capture, successfully, a larger DR. Learning to work with that to produce images that "work" is the challenge.
As usual the limitation is not the equipment, it's knowing how to use it to best advantage to serve your vision. Some work better, produce better work, and are comfortable in a more restricted zone that they have mastered and moving out of that zone can be disruptive to their disadvantage. If it's not broken don't fix it. Others will relish the opportunity and challenge of the new, in this case sensor.
I agree that many find their personal style and can't understand why everyone doesn't shoot like that (if they did they would loose their individuality but they don't seem to see that, even running workshops that tend to produce mini me shooters).
This is at the heart of many of the threads here where some, sincerely, can't understand why anyone would want to shoot: CCD, film, MF etc etc and make it their mission to point out the error of their ways.
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Canon is getting ready to pump up TS glass production! :D
Eduardo
A comment from DPR:
"If PDAF works well with metabones adapters, Canon has officially become Sony's third party lens maker."
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A comment from DPR:
"If PDAF works well with metabones adapters, Canon has officially become Sony's third party lens maker."
Ouch, with a scathing comment like that from a mainstream photography portal, Canon is not going to go well over this.
The only hold Canon has left right now is in the high-speed pro DSLR market with the 1DX, but the ice is getting thinner day by day.
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is getting very thinner to phase one too !!!!
untill sony give to them the full sensor cmos...
les carottes sont cuites !
best.
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As a Canon 5D3 and 1Dx user this year I bought a 645z and a A7ii.
I'm losing my love for Canon, fast. Lot of loyalty but for the love of all that's holy:
Silent shutter
42mp
Huge dynamic range
5 axis stabilisation.
That's the big thing for me. Size, weight, lens options mean nothing as I love the Canon glass... but dammit I'm close to saying I'm all but done with Canon because I'm being forced to choose, I can't carry four bodies to every wedding.
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5 axis stabilisation.
only with OIS... if IBIS w/ non OIS lenses then it is just 2... see small print.
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Now if only Cam Ranger can get their system working with Sony all would be well cause the Sony wifi and iPad solution sucks. Its what keeps my a7r in my studio and my Canons for location.
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only with OIS... if IBIS w/ non OIS lenses then it is just 2... see small print.
I think it is the other way around. If the lens has no IS (OIS), the sensor does 5 axis stabilization: Yaw, Pitch, Roll, X and Z.
If it is an E mount lens with Optical Image Stabilization, the lens does Yaw and Pitch movement while the camera does the Roll, X and Z. Lens mounted through an adaptor, the camera does the 5 axis.
Since I don't own a Sony camera (in particular the A7 II), this is the conclusion that I reached after reading a lot of reviews of it, including Michael one here: https://luminous-landscape.com/sony-a7-mkii-hands-one/
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In general _____ like to _____ about their own _____ and assume that everyone else should _____ the same way.
With my minor modifications I think you've just diagnosed most of what ails the human race. :D
-Dave-
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I love the Canon glass... but dammit I'm close to saying I'm all but done with Canon because I'm being forced to choose, I can't carry four bodies to every wedding.
Take a Metabones smart adapter with you and you can leave one body at home ;)
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I think it is the other way around. If the lens has no IS (OIS), the sensor does 5 axis stabilization: Yaw, Pitch, Roll, X and Z.
If it is an E mount lens with Optical Image Stabilization, the lens does Yaw and Pitch movement while the camera does the Roll, X and Z. Lens mounted through an adaptor, the camera does the 5 axis.
Since I don't own a Sony camera (in particular the A7 II), this is the conclusion that I reached after reading a lot of reviews of it, including Michael one here: https://luminous-landscape.com/sony-a7-mkii-hands-one/
I think this is generally correct, but with one addition that for this to work correctly the lens needs to be able to communicate the focal distance to the camera (like for instance with Minolta or Sony "D" lenses). This is needed for Pitch and Yaw correction to function correctly. In case the camera cannot determine the focal distance it defaults back to 3 axis stabilization (Roll, X, Z).
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I think this is generally correct, but with one addition that for this to work correctly the lens needs to be able to communicate the focal distance to the camera (like for instance with Minolta or Sony "D" lenses). This is needed for Pitch and Yaw correction to function correctly. In case the camera cannot determine the focal distance it defaults back to 3 axis stabilization (Roll, X, Z).
A question, my understanding it is that you can input the actual focal distance manually, and in that case you have 5-axis, right? Probably not practical for a zoom lens, but it could be handy for a fixed focal lens.
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A question, my understanding it is that you can input the actual focal distance manually, and in that case you have 5-axis, right? Probably not practical for a zoom lens, but it could be handy for a fixed focal lens.
You can input focal length of the lens in a menu, which is needed for correct X and Z movement. But for pitch and yaw compensation to work correctly you also need to know at which distance from the camera the subject is located.
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With my minor modifications I think you've just diagnosed most of what ails the human race. :D
-Dave-
Fantastic!
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You can input focal length of the lens in a menu, which is needed for correct X and Z movement. But for pitch and yaw compensation to work correctly you also need to know at which distance from the camera the subject is located.
Got it, thanks for the info!
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They are not mentioning if the A7R II has an improved raw file format (uncompressed).
I suspect you meant "lossless" compression, not "uncompressed". And indeed, that is a big question for this camera.
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i am also very interested in the new Sony A7rII. It will be a great combination of 4k video and hires photography.
Can you shoot tethered via Capture one with Sony?
Can I use my Zeiss Otus and Nikorrs?
Thanks and greetings from sunny Frankfurt / Germany
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Capture 1 Pro has been working great with the Sonys for a while now. I shoot tethered to it with the A7r daily and it's rock solid. Nikkors (and Canons) can be used via a Metabones adapter.
CB
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As great as this camera is (would probably replace my Nikon setup) if only we had a forum for 35mm related discussions! If only there was a rule that this forum is for medium and large format discussions only!
I thought there was a rule but when brought up some complain that MF shooter are elitist and snobs just spending money...hard for them to believe that my P30 was less then a Nikon D4. This is the only web site where MF gets a page (that is actually active) and now it's tending more and more towards FF.
Maybe the moderators could start a Full Frame page...hint, hint!
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If I spent $XX,XXX on a camera, I'd want a special forum too.
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I still can't figure out how photography degraded into this who has what camera and what is the hottest and best. It is depressingly sad.
When did we loose touch with what photography was and become gear heads. We can all pull out better high ISO, better resolution, better dynamic range than film.
Was it lost somewhere in the last 7yrs when digital caught up with film and prices came down allowing a lot of newcomer entry levels to come in not focused on the heart of photography but the latest gear out there? When did everything change to letting the gear control our photography rather than what was in front of us?
I remember the days of film when if the scene had brights with shadows we were using grads carefully and switching to black and white to take advantage of contrast; rather now we seem to want the highest dynamic range to take a shot not focusing on the art of the shot but to take it into photoshop and get a fake looking HDR image...
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Hi,
I would say you generalize a lot.
On the other hand, I would say it is nice to get rid of grads, and HDRs can look like any other image, even if the effect has been kidnapped to create weird looks.
The greatest feature of the Sony FE is that you can use it with almost any lens, and that they have fixed some of the glaring omissions of the original A7r.
Best regards
Erik
I still can't figure out how photography degraded into this who has what camera and what is the hottest and best. It is depressingly sad.
When did we loose touch with what photography was and become gear heads. We can all pull out better high ISO, better resolution, better dynamic range than film.
Was it lost somewhere in the last 7yrs when digital caught up with film and prices came down allowing a lot of newcomer entry levels to come in not focused on the heart of photography but the latest gear out there? When did everything change to letting the gear control our photography rather than what was in front of us?
I remember the days of film when if the scene had brights with shadows we were using grads carefully and switching to black and white to take advantage of contrast; rather now we seem to want the highest dynamic range to take a shot not focusing on the art of the shot but to take it into photoshop and get a fake looking HDR image...
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As cameras share technology and photographers use both formats it's natural to mix the two a bit. Sony mirrorless cameras are already used on various tech cameras. It has crosstalk issues with wide angles though just like the MF version of the sensor, which makes this new BSI sensor very exciting. For my personal photography MFD looks like a dead end currently, I can't upgrade my current 50 MP Kodak CCD and get the properties I want of a tech cam back (next step means compromising movements, change lenses etc), but if BSI CMOS is coming that is likely to change which is really great. It have to come in a package as affordable as CFV-50c is today though otherwise I'll skip it, so my hopes are for Hasselblad making yet another back for their discontinued V system.
This forum does not see that much traffic so making it broader to include related high resolution photography in general doesn't hurt.
It is a gear forum so tech discussions on gear is natural. Not all strive for the latest either, I see many posters having older gear, myself included. There are all kinds of users here.
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When I pack my bag my MF is for the wide shots and my DSLR is for the long shots. My Bag gets pretty heavy The A7r II might just save me some weight over my D800E and my Leica R's will have some stabilization for the handheld shots! Win Win
Marc
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When I pack my bag my MF is for the wide shots and my DSLR is for the long shots. My Bag gets pretty heavy The A7r II might just save me some weight over my D800E and my Leica R's will have some stabilization for the handheld shots! Win Win
Marc
My expectation is that Sony will now downscale this same tech and sell it in cheaper models. In particular, I'd expect sensor-shift super-resolution and tilt across the board.
Edmund
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When I pack my bag my MF is for the wide shots and my DSLR is for the long shots. My Bag gets pretty heavy The A7r II might just save me some weight over my D800E and my Leica R's will have some stabilization for the handheld shots! Win Win
Marc
same here.. Looking forward to this one as backup to tech cam
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Hi Marc,
Nice to see you again on these forums!
I have some keen interest in the A7rII, as they seem to have fixed a few things I didn't like with the original A7r.
My plan is to keep my Sony A-mount stuff, but add a decent short telephoto. I want it to be good at full aperture. Right now I guess the Batis 1.8/85 fills the bill. In the other end I see a Canon 24/3.5 TS coming with a Metabones adapter.
Mirex has a few has a T&S adapter, so I could use my Hasselblad lenses with T&S. It is quite possible I order in a couple of days.
Best regards
Erik
When I pack my bag my MF is for the wide shots and my DSLR is for the long shots. My Bag gets pretty heavy The A7r II might just save me some weight over my D800E and my Leica R's will have some stabilization for the handheld shots! Win Win
Marc
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Hi Marc,
Nice to see you again on these forums!
I have some keen interest in the A7rII, as they seem to have fixed a few things I didn't like with the original A7r.
My plan is to keep my Sony A-mount stuff, but add a decent short telephoto. I want it to be good at full aperture. Right now I guess the Batis 1.8/85 fills the bill. In the other end I see a Canon 24/3.5 TS coming with a Metabones adapter.
Mirex has a few has a T&S adapter, so I could use my Hasselblad lenses with T&S. It is quite possible I order in a couple of days.
Best regards
Erik
The Batis 85mm f1.8 is designed by Tamron. It has strong distortion.
By the way, Sony advertises for less color cast on the A7R-II thanks to the BSI sensor design.
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Hi,
I have seen the Tamron patent…
The distortion doesn't really matter to me, and the lens seems to be nice otherwise. Diglloyd is enthusiastic about it. I have it on order but I may order the 90/2.8 macro instead.
Best regards
Erik
Zeiss seems to have an interesting business model, but so long the lenses are OK, I won't complain.
The Batis 85mm f1.8 is designed by Tamron. It has strong distortion.
By the way, Sony advertises for less color cast on the A7R-II thanks to the BSI sensor design.
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Zeiss seems to have an interesting business model
originally from PentaxForums.com
SAMSUNG: "We're making a play, like every other man and his giant-electronics-corporation dog, for the digital camera market. Unfortunately, we have zero credibility in the camera industry, and, well, that's where you come in..."
SCHNEIDER KREUZNACH: "NEIN! Ve are a respected European opticz company, with many years of fine tradition und expertise in the field..."
Samsung drops, with a surprisingly loud thud, a briefcase on the conference table. It pops open, revealing row upon row of shiny Euro notes, neatly bundled in 10000-Euro lots
SK: "...and as such vill not be villing to zell our name for use on some cheap, mass-produced cameras! Our lens are a ground by magic elves, und coated vith ze finest, purest dragon's urine..."
Samsung reaches into its pocket, and pulls out a handful of diamonds, water clear, each the size of a human testicle, and tumbles them onto the briefcase
SK: "Our lenses are hand-assembled by virgins! The lens barrels are polished on zeir thighs!"
Samsung whistles, and a team of sunglass-wearing security guards with earpieces screwed into their ears, wielding submachine guns, enter the room. They briefly check the corners, the faces of those at the conference table, then nod and mutter into their lapels. Seconds later, a powered trolley laden with gold bullion enters the room, and is placed at the head of the table.
SK: "EACH LENS IS HAND-TESTED BY ZE POPE!"
Samsung pulls a share certificate from his pocket. Laying it next to the briefcase, it reads: "COCA-COLA: 250,000 Shares".
SK: "I look forward to working vith you, Samsung. Here's the TIFF file of our logo. Stick it vhere you vant. Guten tag!"
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The Batis 85mm f1.8 is designed by Tamron. It has strong distortion.
My m43 "Leica" 25/1.4 (designed by Sigma) has strong barrel distortion. Doesn't matter as it can be easily corrected in software.
-Dave-
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My m43 "Leica" 25/1.4 (designed by Sigma) has strong barrel distortion. Doesn't matter as it can be easily corrected in software.
-Dave-
it actually does... first of all, for example whatever ACR/LR are using /and not only ACR/LR - just that they were an example when question was asked in 2011 in regards to 20/1.7 which is while being fine lens for its purpose has a huge barrel distortion/ to correct geometry leads to noise clustering/banding (says one E.Chan = "The bands are introduced because uniform image noise becomes non-uniformly distributed upon image resampling (e.g., when spatially-varying optical corrections are applied). Ideally, one would redistribute the image scene values to make the rendered image rectilinear, without redistributing the noise (thereby keeping it uniform in appearance). Regrettably, that is not easy to do, since the noise is already "burned into" the image.") and then if you are using some other raw converters which do not support such optics corrections that complicates your workflow... when that does not matter for you, it only does not matter for you.
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I don't know if you guys have seen this? http://www.dpreview.com/articles/1652088044/sony-an-eye-on-focus
To me this is probably the most valuable feature of the camera. Think of the implications for working pros doing wedding/fashion/beauty/... in terms of the increased ratio of perfectly focused images?
Odds are that the real world level of detail of this 42 mp sensor perfectly focused on the eye will be much higher than that of higher resolution MF cameras, simply because the focus will be slightly off most of the time on those.
Cheers,
Bernard
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My m43 "Leica" 25/1.4 (designed by Sigma) has strong barrel distortion. Doesn't matter as it can be easily corrected in software.
-Dave-
Software correction of distortion would reduce corner sharpness, corner resolution and angle of view.
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it actually does... first of all, for example whatever ACR/LR are using /and not only ACR/LR - just that they were an example when question was asked in 2011 in regards to 20/1.7 which is while being fine lens for its purpose has a huge barrel distortion/ to correct geometry leads to noise clustering/banding (says one E.Chan = "The bands are introduced because uniform image noise becomes non-uniformly distributed upon image resampling (e.g., when spatially-varying optical corrections are applied). Ideally, one would redistribute the image scene values to make the rendered image rectilinear, without redistributing the noise (thereby keeping it uniform in appearance). Regrettably, that is not easy to do, since the noise is already "burned into" the image.") and then if you are using some other raw converters which do not support such optics corrections that complicates your workflow... when that does not matter for you, it only does not matter for you.
Exactly. For multi-sampling (temporal noise reduction), distortion correction by software could introduce error on the master darkframe, making post-processing really tough.
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Hi,
I have seen a real world example of this over at GetDPI. It was clearly caused by lens corrections as it went away once the photographer disabled lens corrections.
Best regards
Erik
Exactly. For multi-sampling (temporal noise reduction), distortion correction by software could introduce error on the master darkframe, making post-processing really tough.
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I have seen a real world example of this over at GetDPI. It was clearly caused by lens corrections as it went away once the photographer disabled lens corrections.
I've seen that too. But I've never seen an example taken by me with my equipment. Therefore I consider it a non-issue. If I ever do see it in my own photos, my attitude will change accordingly.
-Dave-
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Tests scattered over the Internet suggests very minor green cast in the corners for the G16. If this is true then the 23HR, 32HR etc are saved! Perhaps even the 28XL is saved!