Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Doug Peterson on June 02, 2015, 07:06:04 am
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(https://digitaltransitions.com/images/XF-IQ3.png)
(https://digitaltransitions.com/images/IQ3.png)
The Announcements
The new, ground-up, phase-one designed, 645 body is here! A few other goodies are arriving at the same time:
- Phase One XF body (https://digitaltransitions.com/blog/dt-blog/phaseone-xf-first-look)
- Phase One IQ3 Digital Back (https://digitaltransitions.com/blog/dt-blog/phaseone-iq3-first-look)
- Schneider 35LS (https://www.digitaltransitions.com/blog/dt-blog/35mm-ls-test)
- Schneider 120LS
- Capture One 8.3
- New PhaseOne.com (https://www.phaseone.com/en/Products/Camera-Systems/XF-Camera-System.aspx) website
See Them in Person
DT has Phase One XF Events (https://digitaltransitions.com/event/event/new-product-events-2015) coming up in LA, New York, Chicago, DC, Boston, Miami, Houston, Dallas, Denver, Philly, San Francisco, and Birmingham. Sign up now to secure your spot. With the XF especially you really need to put it in your hands to fully appreciate how much of a revolution it is.
Questions?
Ask any question you'd like. I have two XF bodies and two IQ3 backs on my person at the moment and just returned from Denmark where I interviewed the head of the XF project and many others in R+D.
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Some answers to questions I've seen posted already. Most of which are covered in our Phase One XF (https://digitaltransitions.com/blog/dt-blog/phaseone-xf-first-look) blog post...
Does the XF work with the IQ1?
Yes. Some of the more advanced features won't be enabled, but the main functions of the camera will all work just as well as with more recent backs.
Does the IQ380 use a new sensor?
Yes. It is a Phase One exclusive 80mp sensor from Dalsa, which has significant R+D time to provide long exposures even better than the IQ260.The spec is the same "one hour" but quality of long exposure at any given length is improved. The IQ350 and IQ360 use the same sensors as the IQ250 and IQ260.
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What is the upgrade path from a leaf aptus 12 to an iq380?
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What is the upgrade path from a leaf aptus 12 to an iq380?
Upgrades are available from just about any digital back.
For the first time, Phase One also has an "cross grade" program which gives useful pricing for going, for instance, from an IQ280 to an IQ350 (which is not "technically" an upgrade in P1's terminology since it is going down in resolution). This was one of the biggest pieces of news in my opinion as we've had to disappoint clients in the past who were in this sort of situation (wanting the latest, but wanting to go down in resolution).
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More questions from the forum...
Does the XF have dedicated shutter-speed, aperture, ISO dials?
The XF has programmable hard buttons and programmable dials. Three dials provides (by default) direct access without removing your eye from the viewfinder, to ISO, Aperture, and Shutter Speed.
Labeled dials like they had on the Contax would be very limiting in several ways: it couldn't show the full range of shutter speeds (the body can go from 1/4000th to 1 hour with digital control, longer using Bulb or T mode) and couldn't be moved or repurposed in case you usually use Aperture-priority mode and don't need access to shutter speed.
When is this Stuff Shipping?
Nearly everything announced (body, lenses, backs, software) is either shipping now or will be shipping within two weeks.
Exceptions are the IQ380 and Waist Level Viewfinder which will ship in July.
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Can you fire just the LS? What about vibration from the Focal Plane shutter (i.e. Shutter Bounce)?
Several notes:
- The mirror has been better dampened. They redesigned this mechanism entirely. In most hand held shooting the mirror, rather than the FP shutter was the main limiter.
- The LS can be fired without the FP or mirror. In most operation both are used because this increase the maximum frame rate, but in vibration sensitive work you can do any of these things to shoot with just the LS:
--- shoot from live view (only LS fires)
--- put the mirror up (only LS fires)
--- use seismograph mode (only LS fires, and only when vibration has ceased)
--- use bracketing mode (only LS fires)
- MUP mode is directly accessible from Capture One, the digital back screen (when using IQ2/IQ3), and from the body itself. You can also program it to a hard button.
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A few questions, Doug:
1) What functionality is missing when a Leaf Credo 40 is used with this body?
2) Is it compatible with legacy Mamiya AF lenses?
3) What is the pricing strategy for users who would like to upgrade a DF+ body to the XF? (PM would be fine if you cannot post it publicly).
Thank you.
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A few questions, Doug:
1) What functionality is missing when a Leaf Credo 40 is used with this body?
2) Is it compatible with legacy Mamiya AF lenses?
3) What is the pricing strategy for users who would like to upgrade a DF+ body to the XF? (PM would be fine if you cannot post it publicly).
Thank you.
1) [Correction: Credo is not yet supported. It will be.]
2) Any lens that worked on the DF or DF+ is supported. This includes Mamiya AF lenses, Mamiya 645TL manual lenses, Phase One D lenses, Mamiya D lenses, Schneider LS lenses, Hassy 200 lenses, Hassy 500 lenses and a few other oddballs.
3) At DT the DF+ is worth $2k when traded in toward an XF. Contact your local dealer for pricing in other regions.
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Thank you very much for the quick answers. Much appreciated. The lost featureset isn't really critical for me, so I can live with them.
Thanks also for clarifying that the body will work with the Creo. As much as I hate to pit your word against CI's, their FAQ says that the body will not work with the Credos. That worried me.
Lastly, another dumb question. Is the trade in open to only Phase One branded DF+ bodies or is it applicable for Mamiya branded ones too?
Thanks!
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The camera is compatible with the Credo?
Conflicting information out there.
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Hi Doug, is it still available to order new backs in Contax mount? Thanks
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Hi Doug,
Whether in the future there will be a film magazine for this body ?
Best regards,
DF
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More questions from the forum...
Does the XF have dedicated shutter-speed, aperture, ISO dials?
The XF has programmable hard buttons and programmable dials. Three dials provides (by default) direct access without removing your eye from the viewfinder, to ISO, Aperture, and Shutter Speed.
Labeled dials like they had on the Contax would be very limiting in several ways: it couldn't show the full range of shutter speeds (the body can go from 1/4000th to 1 hour with digital control, longer using Bulb or T mode) and couldn't be moved or repurposed in case you usually use Aperture-priority mode and don't need access to shutter speed.
Since this was a response to my points made in the other thread I'd just like to say that I think it's decent solution to the problem. The important thing is that you can make basic adjustments without having to look at the screen. With that said I'm hugely disappointed that you are not able to use older P/P+ backs with it, seeing how the mount is the same it's obviously a deliberate move by Phase. I also have to say that this new body is way more of an incremental update than I had hoped for after so many years of waiting, but it's still nice to see improvements, especially to the AF system.
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Whether in the future there will be a film magazine for this body ?
No.
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Since this was a response to my points made in the other thread I'd just like to say that I think it's decent solution to the problem. The important thing is that you can make basic adjustments without having to look at the screen. With that said I'm hugely disappointed that you are not able to use older P/P+ backs with it, seeing how the mount is the same it's obviously a deliberate move by Phase. I also have to say that this new body is way more of an incremental update than I had hoped for after so many years of waiting, but it's still nice to see improvements, especially to the AF system.
We were sad to see the lack of P+ support (I don't think any of us expected P support). Support for the Credo/IQ/IQ2 was nice to see, but we would have loved to see one more generation. We have an article coming in a few days that tells the story behind the development of the XF, but in short, the operating system and communication protocols in the XF is built on the IQ platform so supporting the P+ would have required a lot of time that would have taken away from time spent on other cool features.
Still, I would have liked to have seen P+ support.
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Hi Doug, is it still available to order new backs in Contax mount? Thanks
No.
From our Phase One IQ3 article (https://digitaltransitions.com/blog/dt-blog/phaseone-iq3-first-look)...
Wait, Where’s Contax?
Digital Transitions LOVES the Contax body. It had great German glass, an optional waist level viewfinder which provides metering, simple intuitive operation, super durable mechanics, minimalist design, and uses a compact, inexpensive battery. The newly released Phase One XF body ticks off literally every one of those boxes while adding things the Contax never had, like a sync speed of 1/1600th.
Still, there is something special about the Contax system; if nothing else, the nostalgia factor can’t be beat. Unfortunately it has been years since this body was made new, and supplies of used bodies and parts/service/repair are waning. As of today Phase One will no longer make Contax mount digital backs. Here at Digital Transitions we’re so sad about this that we’re throwing a wake for the end of the era of Digital Contax. Shoot us a tweet if you’d like your words of remembrance to be read there.
Phase One will continue to provide service and support for the Contax backs it has sold for many years to come. As an indication of how seriously Phase One takes support of discontinued products look no further than the Phase One FX+ scan back, which was only end-of-life’d last year, more than15 years after it’s initial release.
Digital Transitions still has a few more NEW Contax digital backs, the last that will ever be made. We expect to sell through this supply within two months (maybe faster when word gets out) so contact us (https://digitaltransitions.com/page/contact-us) today if you’re interested in purchasing or demoing a Contax digital back.
By the way, if you love the Contax 80mm f/2 lens (and who didn’t??), stay tuned for our article titled “Big Buttery Bokeh on the XF: the Contax 80/2, Zeiss 110/2, Schneider 110/2.8, Schneider 130/2.1, and Mamiya 80/1.9” in which we mount a Contax 80/2 to the XF with great results.
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More forum questions...
Is the Schneider 35LS (https://digitaltransitions.com/page/leaf-shutter-lenses) the same lens as the 35D but with a Leaf Shutter?
NO. This is a completely new design. It is a moderately larger lens and performance is hugely increased.
Is the Schneider 120LS (https://digitaltransitions.com/page/leaf-shutter-lenses) the same lens as the 120 AF D but with a Leaf Shutter?
Yes. Same elements, same performance, but with sync at 1/1600th.
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HI,
is the XF compatible with the Aptus series too?
Thank you.
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Apparently no ! I'm so sad
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HI,
is the XF compatible with the Aptus series too?
Thank you.
No P+ support. No Aptus support. See here (http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=100849.msg826465#msg826465).
Upgrades are available from the Aptus to more modern backs, which will gain a huge host of other advantages. Contact your local dealer for pricing and options.
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The body prices seem to be in the ballpark of the H5X body, which is quite nice, considering all the extra features one gets for the money (Within the realm of MFD).
The only missing pieces are some ultrawide lenses so that the portfolio is comparable to that of Blad. I hope those are coming at some point.
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Looks like in this case I was not correct. Credo is not supported.
Wow.
What does that say about the future of Leaf?
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Wow.
What does that say about the future of Leaf?
Major bummer for me as well. I am REALLY hoping that this is not an outright NO and more of a "Down the line" deal.
As far as I understand, Credo and IQ backs are technologically very similar and the major roadblocks have more to do with marketing than engineering.
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Correction to some of the earlier posts: The Credo is not yet supported. It will be. Must be the jet lag!
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I'll be asleep now for a few hours. The flight from Copenhagen to Los Angeles was not well timed with the launch. Feel free to leave any questions and I can answer them in a bit. For anyone in LA area you can see the XF tomorrow at our Phase One XF Launch event at Smashbox Studios (http://"https://digitaltransitions.com/event/event/new-product-events-2015#LA").
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Love the waist high viewfinder. Is there a way to take verticals (other then cropping) while using it?
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Love the waist high viewfinder. Is there a way to take verticals (other then cropping) while using it?
Not really. It's still a 645 chassis, so you can't rotate the back. So use of the WLF for verticals will be awkward.
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The lack of support for Aptus backs is unsurprising though still disappointing.
I understand backward compatibility issues and the costs/business trade-offs associated with this. I think for products that initially cost so much there is an onus on vendors to go an extra mile in backward compatibility, though I can see that with some of the backs it might not be so easy.
As it is, Phase have to trade off the $10k+ I've been putting aside for a new body and lenses against the $0 they will now get from me, and I doubt if I am alone in having hoped for this option for the last couple of years. I guess they did the spreadsheet and that wasn't enough, so fair's fair in business as they say and there are many other options in cameras now.
Will the new lenses operate on the DF+ body?
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Will the new lenses operate on the DF+ body?
Yes.
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One more thing before I nod off. I cannot wait to share the Schneider 35LS (https://digitaltransitions.com/page/leaf-shutter-lenses) sample files we have. It's that good.
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What is difference between XF and DF digital back mounts? Only some extra contacts?
Or there will be need for some adapter to use IQ1 backs on XF camera?
"stay tuned for our article titled “Big Buttery Bokeh on the XF: the Contax 80/2, Zeiss 110/2, Schneider 110/2.8, Schneider 130/2.1, and Mamiya 80/1.9” in which we mount a Contax 80/2 to the XF with great results. "
Can I ask which lens is refered as "Schneider 130/2.1"?
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I'm back and feeling much refreshed!
What is difference between XF and DF digital back mounts? Only some extra contacts?
Or there will be need for some adapter to use IQ1 backs on XF camera?
No physical adapter required. A free firmware update will be required. There are new elements on the XF mount (additional pins for communication) and such but not that prohibit backwards compatibility. Likewise the IQ3 backs can mount to a DF or DF+ without physical adapter.
"stay tuned for our article titled “Big Buttery Bokeh on the XF: the Contax 80/2, Zeiss 110/2, Schneider 110/2.8, Schneider 130/2.1, and Mamiya 80/1.9” in which we mount a Contax 80/2 to the XF with great results. "
Can I ask which lens is refered as "Schneider 130/2.1"?
All details will be in the article coming in the next week. It's an oddball lens, manual focus and no aperture control. It's really just for bokeh buffs.
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Hi Doug,
Can you comment on the new AF system too? How big is the AF area?
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So the new iq3 backs are just the same backs as the iq2, but with 60 minute exposures and works with the new camera mount? So the image quality of the iq1,2,3 are pretty much the same?
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+1 on the af question (area, speed, accuracy) microadjustments per lens? I saw the hyperfocal programming possible on lenses - sounds amazing.
When will we see some side by side between the 280 and the 380?
With the 100mp lens resolution claims, did you see an engineering prototype of said resolution??? (nda ready to be emailed)
How does mirror up work - more like the H body?
Vertical grip? Is Air integrated or can you do the faster sync via the hotshoe?
Firmware upgrades - please tell me you don't need a grip to update this beast?
Way to work when the touch screen goes wonky? When paired with the IQ3, is there a setting you can't control from C1?
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Hi Doug,
Can you comment on the new AF system too? How big is the AF area?
It's a fairly small rectangle in the center of the frame.
The Viewfinder has two rectangles, one inside the other, that represent the AF Center, and AF Spot mode.
Unfortunately the two bodies I have with me have pre-production viewfinders so don't show the new etched pattern so I can't send an iPhone pic to illustrate.
Accuracy and speed are very big improvements but I don't know that any number would mean anything here (what would "twice as accurate" mean?) so if you're near LA, New York, Chicago, DC, Boston, Miami, Houston, Dallas, Denver, Philly, San Francisco, and Birmingham I'd come to our XF Launch Event (https://digitaltransitions.com/event/event/new-product-events-2015) and play with one yourself.
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thanks for the info, doug.
unfortunately im not in the states at the moment. but looking forward to trying it out some time later!!
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+1 on the af question (area, speed, accuracy) microadjustments per lens? I saw the hyperfocal programming possible on lenses - sounds amazing.
Micro adjust (P1 calls this "focus trim") is available per lens model for older lenses, and per physical lens (by serial number) with the new Schneider Blue Ring lenses (35LS and 120LS for now).
When will we see some side by side between the 280 and the 380?
We will be doing lots of sample tests as always, but I don't think 280 vs 380 will be high on the list.
The backs should perform nearly identically for short exposures, and for long exposures beyond two minutes there will not be any comparison since the 280 can't do more than 2 min (I'd argue it really can't go past 100 seconds in normal use, but it's dependent on what you accept noise wise).
But if I see early results that point to anything else significant I'll be glad to prioritize that test.
With the 100mp lens resolution claims, did you see an engineering prototype of said resolution??? (nda ready to be emailed)
The 100mp label on the lenses is not about an indication or advertisement of future backs, but a logical acknowledgement that at some point the resolution will be even higher than today. This is like predicting the sun will rise tomorrow. I do not think we'll see any new sensors this year, and I'd be moderately surprised if we saw one next year - no promises, just making my best honest guess.
How does mirror up work - more like the H body?
Lots of options:
- any hard button can be assigned to put the mirror up
- you can tap the mup icon on the touch screen
- you can tap the mup icon on the digital back camera controls screen
- you can tap the mup icon in Capture One's camera control screen
- you can put the body on Seismograph mode which is currently a take on [MUP + FP Up + Self Timer] and which, soon, will use the data coming from the 6-axis gyro/accelerometer to wait just long enough for the vibration to cease.
Vertical grip? Is Air integrated or can you do the faster sync via the hotshoe?
No vertical grip at this time. There is a secondary shutter release (like all hard buttons it can be customized to do something else) but it is positioning more for WLF use than for vertical use. DT and P1 are both very interested to hear what level of interest there is in a vertical grip. If you look at the bottom of the camera there is a port ready for communication with accessories mounted on the bottom. So what happens will largely be a result of customer demand.
Firmware upgrades - please tell me you don't need a grip to update this beast?
You do not. Firmware can be loaded from CF card or using a USB dongle.
Way to work when the touch screen goes wonky? When paired with the IQ3, is there a setting you can't control from C1?
Every setting is accessible without the touch screen (e.g. if your'e wearing gloves, or in the unlikely but not impossible case you describe of the touch screen "going wonky") using the dials and hard buttons. Nearly every setting is also available from the digital back. The only one that comes to mind at the moment which is not, is toggling between Classic and Simple display mode (simple only shows ISO/Aperture/Shutter-Speed and keeps the top of the camera very clean feeling while Classic also provides icons to immediately access functions like bracketing).
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Thanks Doug, next round is on me. The light meter built into the AF chip will make the waist level viewfinder so much more pleasing.
-Joe
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Doug,
There are now 10 posts for back sales on the first page of the For Sale forum. Maybe it is time to go public on the upgrade pricing so *everybody* knows what an older Phase back is worth.
Edmund
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Hi Doug,
Can you separate the focus from the shutter release as we did on the DF camera? So you can release the shutter and focus with the rear button.
Best Denis
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How much better would you say the long exposures are on the 380 as opposed to the 260?
I ask because I see that on the 380, the LE mode starts at ISO 200, which is higher than ISO 140.
In the past I have read that many still consider the P45+ as having better long exposures than the 260. What are your feelings on the P45+ vs. the IQ380 on long exposures?
(It kind of bums me out that LE mode has not been made effective at base ISO.)
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Doug,
There are now 10 posts for back sales on the first page of the For Sale forum. Maybe it is time to go public on the upgrade pricing so *everybody* knows what an older Phase back is worth.
Edmund
For once, can't you JUST STOP TROLLING?
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Doug,
There are now 10 posts for back sales on the first page of the For Sale forum. Maybe it is time to go public on the upgrade pricing so *everybody* knows what an older Phase back is worth.
Edmund
I have no problem posting pricing. However, there are a LOT of models of older backs, and a lot of models of new backs to which to upgrade. The new upgrade pricing is based on a sliding scale multiplier of the megapixel count of the back being traded in with adjustments for if it is a P1 back, what generation, and whether you're upgrading or cross grading. So it's really just much faster and easier for everyone if interested individuals simply email us at [email protected]. If someone has a specific price question they're welcome to post it here, but we'll pretty quickly clog the thread with one-off questions.
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What is the cost for the body and the back? Can you give me some information about the sensor?
Thx.
BTW - I'm in LA - will try to make it over tomorrow, but I'm in the Valley, so sometimes traffic doesn't allow for the visit to Culver City.
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What is the cost for the body and the back? Can you give me some information about the sensor?
XF IQ3 80MP $48,990
XF IQ3 60MP $41,990
XF IQ3 50MP $40,990
XF IQ1 80MP $40,990.00
XF IQ1 60MP $33,990.00
XF IQ1 50MP $32,990.00
XF IQ1 40MP $20,990.00
IQ3 and IQ1 XF Specs (including sensor info and features) (https://digitaltransitions.com/pdf/Iq3-Iq1specs.pdf)
BTW - I'm in LA - will try to make it over tomorrow, but I'm in the Valley, so sometimes traffic doesn't allow for the visit to Culver City.
Traffic in LA?? ;D
Seriously though we hope you can make it. To my knowledge it's the first public showing of the XF in the world.
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Can you separate the focus from the shutter release as we did on the DF camera? So you can release the shutter and focus with the rear button.
Yes, and doing so is fast and intuitive, unlike the DF+ which require three custom functions to be changed.
In fact every you can assign autofocus to any of the hard buttons.
I also find the location of that rear hard button more pleasing. But that will obviously vary person to person so you'll have to put your hands on an XF (https://digitaltransitions.com/event/training/new-product-events-2015) to see.
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Yes, and doing so is fast and intuitive, unlike the DF+ which require three custom functions to be changed.
In fact every you can assign autofocus to any of the hard buttons.
I also find the location of that rear hard button more pleasing. But that will obviously vary person to person so you'll have to put your hands on an XF (https://digitaltransitions.com/event/training/new-product-events-2015) to see.
Thanks Doug will go the NY event next week!
Thanks Denis
Best Denis
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Is there a clear and comprehensive list somewhere of which "new features" of the XF system will NOT be functional when using an IQ1 or IQ2 back?
Phrased differently: Is there a list of which new features of the XF system will ONLY work when using an IQ3 rather than IQ1 or IQ2 back?
(I've seen references on this and other threads to certain "new features" only being operational when using an IQ3 back, without specifics as to what those are.)
XF IQ3 80MP $48,990
XF IQ3 60MP $41,990
XF IQ3 50MP $40,990
XF IQ1 80MP $40,990.00
XF IQ1 60MP $33,990.00
XF IQ1 50MP $32,990.00
XF IQ1 40MP $20,990.00
IQ3 and IQ1 XF Specs (including sensor info and features) (https://digitaltransitions.com/pdf/Iq3-Iq1specs.pdf)
Traffic in LA?? ;D
Seriously though we hope you can make it. To my knowledge it's the first public showing of the XF in the world.
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Is there a clear and comprehensive list somewhere of which "new features" of the XF system will NOT be functional when using an IQ1 or IQ2 back?
Phrased differently: Is there a list of which new features of the XF system will ONLY work when using an IQ3 rather than IQ1 or IQ2 back?
(I've seen references on this and other threads to certain "new features" only being operational when using an IQ3 back, without specifics as to what those are.)
Second page of the PDF I linked earlier:
https://digitaltransitions.com/pdf/Iq3-Iq1specs.pdf
IQ3 vs IQ2 the only difference is the power sharing function which required new hardware inside the back. Otherwise IQ2 and IQ3 will be the same.
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Thank you. Perhaps I'm unusually obtuse today, but the second page of that PDF compares IQ3 to IQ1, not IQ3 to IQ2 (and, as to IQ3 versus IQ1, shows several differences in functionality beyond the power sharing function).
Perhaps I can be more specific:
(1) What would be the specific differences in operation or features when an IQ250 versus an IQ350 is mounted on an XF camera?
(2) Can one purchase the XF with IQ250 as a kit (and at what price?) or are the kits only available with the XF plus IQ3 series backs?
Second page of the PDF I linked earlier:
https://digitaltransitions.com/pdf/Iq3-Iq1specs.pdf
IQ3 vs IQ2 the only difference is the power sharing function which required new hardware inside the back. Otherwise IQ2 and IQ3 will be the same.
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Ok, the seismograph has me interested - as in can I have the shake trigger the shot? As in once it settles, any spike in movement triggers a shot?
Oh, and Profoto Air is in the body, so you can literally have a trigger in the hotshoe plus trigger off Air.
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Ok, the seismograph has me interested - as in can I have the shake trigger the shot? As in once it settles, any spike in movement triggers a shot?
Oh, and Profoto Air is in the body, so you can literally have a trigger in the hotshoe plus trigger off Air.
The intention is the opposite; it will (when fully implemented) fire when the shaking STOPS.
However, your idea is interesting and P1 is very interested in what features users want to see in the XF in the future. Being based on the operating system of the IQ it is the most extensible body platform ever made.
So please share what problems this would let you solve and how you would foresee it being implemented and we'll make sure the right people read it.
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Thank you. Perhaps I'm unusually obtuse today, but the second page of that PDF compares IQ3 to IQ1, not IQ3 to IQ2 (and, as to IQ3 versus IQ1, shows several differences in functionality beyond the power sharing function).
Perhaps I can be more specific:
(1) What would be the specific differences in operation or features when an IQ250 versus an IQ350 is mounted on an XF camera?
(2) Can one purchase the XF with IQ250 as a kit (and at what price?) or are the kits only available with the XF plus IQ3 series backs?
(1) No power sharing. That's it. With the IQ3 if the battery in the back or body runs low it can switch to using the other battery instead. With the IQ2 they are power-wise independent.
(2) XF can be purchased stand alone, or as a kit for the IQ1 or IQ3. It cannot be purchased with an IQ2.
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I have no problem posting pricing. However, there are a LOT of models of older backs, and a lot of models of new backs to which to upgrade. The new upgrade pricing is based on a sliding scale multiplier of the megapixel count of the back being traded in with adjustments for if it is a P1 back, what generation, and whether you're upgrading or cross grading. So it's really just much faster and easier for everyone if interested individuals simply email us at [email protected]. If someone has a specific price question they're welcome to post it here, but we'll pretty quickly clog the thread with one-off questions.
Doug,
We now have 10 Phase/Leaf backs posted for sale. This probably is the largest concentration ever seen in any place, it's like Ferraris in Monaco.
Anyway, just to get a baseline idea, what would the trade-in for a Mamiya mount P30+ to a new CMOS 50MP and Phase XF be?
Edmund
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I have no problem posting pricing. However, there are a LOT of models of older backs, and a lot of models of new backs to which to upgrade. The new upgrade pricing is based on a sliding scale multiplier of the megapixel count of the back being traded in with adjustments for if it is a P1 back, what generation, and whether you're upgrading or cross grading. So it's really just much faster and easier for everyone if interested individuals simply email us at [email protected]. If someone has a specific price question they're welcome to post it here, but we'll pretty quickly clog the thread with one-off questions.
For academic interest... Since basically P1 is "forcing" folks with P+ backs to upgrade perfectly fine backs to have a nicer body, what about folks who have the p65+ and DF+ to re-up to a 160 or 360? And are there improvements to the long exposure mode for the 360 sensor?
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Is there a hot shoe available when you are using the WLV or do you need to sync the old fashion way with cables?
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Happy to see my one request of having the autofocus button actually where your thumb is and not "around the outside of the hump"
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Hi DOUG,
Congratulations on the new system, it looks solid. The "limits" system for the aperture, the ISO and the shutter speed is easier to use and more flexible than the one in the D810. That is something. I also love that Phase One is in the theory that you have to invest, and then get the benefits and not the other way around. Phase presented a new camera, new Backs, new excellent lenses quite a day.
I have a question, (pointing me to the proper material will do too):
The auto focus system is new, there is something about "floating point" but in the videos I saw one of the photographers using focus /recompose. What is the coverage of the AF points on the system? how many there are? What does it mean that the autofocus point(s) float? (I guess we are not talking math)
Thanks
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How much better would you say the long exposures are on the 380 as opposed to the 260?
I ask because I see that on the 380, the LE mode starts at ISO 200, which is higher than ISO 140.
In the past I have read that many still consider the P45+ as having better long exposures than the 260. What are your feelings on the P45+ vs. the IQ380 on long exposures?
(It kind of bums me out that LE mode has not been made effective at base ISO.)
The IQ260 actually works at ISO 200 in LE mode when you dial ISO 140. It is basically a pull of 0.5 EV in post processing. You get exactly the same RAW data between ISO 140 and ISO 200 in LE mode of the IQ260.
I guess Phase One is now more honest this time so they just offer ISO 200 for the IQ380 straight away.
As the IQ380 is still a CCD, don't be too optimistic about the performance. I bet the dynamic range will still be worse than Canon in LE mode.
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Sorry for having more questions:
Where the XF body is made? Doug, can you elaborate more on the 5-year warranty also?
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Sorry for having more questions:
Where the XF body is made? Doug, can you elaborate more on the 5-year warranty also?
No apologies; we're glad to answer any questions.
Design: Denmark
Mechanics: Japan
Firmware: Denmark
5 year warranty: any IQ3 XF kit comes with a 5-year value added warranty which includes loaner during any service or repair.
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Hi DOUG,
Congratulations on the new system, it looks solid. The "limits" system for the aperture, the ISO and the shutter speed is easier to use and more flexible than the one in the D810. That is something. I also love that Phase One is in the theory that you have to invest, and then get the benefits and not the other way around. Phase presented a new camera, new Backs, new excellent lenses quite a day.
I have a question, (pointing me to the proper material will do too):
The auto focus system is new, there is something about "floating point" but in the videos I saw one of the photographers using focus /recompose. What is the coverage of the AF points on the system? how many there are? What does it mean that the autofocus point(s) float? (I guess we are not talking math)
We were glad to see so many of the IQ3 features will be available to IQ2 owners.
Autofocus has two modes Center and Center-Spot. Both modes are physically represented with rectangles in the viewfinder for easy understanding of exactly what is being included in the AF engine.
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Is there a hot shoe available when you are using the WLV or do you need to sync the old fashion way with cables?
The built-in Profoto Air transmitter can trigger strobes when using the WLV (either Profoto Air strobes natively, or any other brand of lighting using an Air receiver). Or you can connect a transmitter to the sync port on the digital back.
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Happy to see my one request of having the autofocus button actually where your thumb is and not "around the outside of the hump"
I also have been playing with putting autofocus on the front-face-of-camera button (not the shutter release on the index finger but the front button near your middle finger).
The combination of new buttons, new grip ergonomics, and complete/easy customization of what each button does is a big winner for me.
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For academic interest... Since basically P1 is "forcing" folks with P+ backs to upgrade perfectly fine backs to have a nicer body, what about folks who have the p65+ and DF+ to re-up to a 160 or 360? And are there improvements to the long exposure mode for the 360 sensor?
Not clear on your question.
P+ is not supported.
IQ260 and IQ360 are identical in long exposure performance.
If you have more questions please let me know.
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Not clear on your question.
P+ is not supported.
IQ260 and IQ360 are identical in long exposure performance.
If you have more questions please let me know.
I meant price/upgrade wise, since you were asking for specific back/body combinations in a previous post, and since the P +series won't be supported on the XF, so a p65+ user would have to re-up for an new back and body combination rather than the iq user who would be able to just do the body.
The XF itself looks great though. Wouldn't have been my choice to make it heavier but hey heavier feels more substantial right...
Sorry if I weren't clear enough before.
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I have a few questions and perhaps somebody could help me.
I owned a P45 and then moved to a IQ160. Camera is still a AFIII.
1. So there is no upgrade option on the camera, so I have to buy that new. If I buy online the camera and keep my current back, what warranty do I have on the camera ? 1 year or 5 years ?
2. If I want to upgrade th IQ160 to the the IQ360 and buy the camera as well what do I get ? Warranty wise ? What do I get as accessories ? Case ? Backpack interior ? 2 batteries or 4 batteries? nothing ?
thanks a lot for the help!
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Claims are that the LE mode of the 380 is significantly better than those of the 260 (which would not take too much IMO). I noticed that the LE mode of the 380 starts at iso 200.
With the 260, I had hoped that LE mode for iso 200 and 400 would produce a cleaner file in what I consider normal exposure ranges, say 1 sec to 1/250 of a sec, which did not happen. Is there any possibility for this with the 380? or will the results be similar to the 260?
Thanks
Paul
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Is the new Schneider LS 120mm a macro lens?
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Claims are that the LE mode of the 380 is significantly better than those of the 260 (which would not take too much IMO). I noticed that the LE mode of the 380 starts at iso 200.
With the 260, I had hoped that LE mode for iso 200 and 400 would produce a cleaner file in what I consider normal exposure ranges, say 1 sec to 1/250 of a sec, which did not happen. Is there any possibility for this with the 380? or will the results be similar to the 260?
Thanks
Paul
It's a good point, I wonder how much of that can be improved with firmware and raw processor upgrades.
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Hi Joe,
Yes the 120mm is a macro lens. Here is a link to the Phase One site with all the info about the glass.
https://www.phaseone.com/en/Products/Camera-Systems/Lenses/Schneider-Kreuznach-120mm-LS.aspx
regards,
Jeffery
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Hi Joe,
Yes the 120mm is a macro lens. Here is a link to the Phase One site with all the info about the glass.
https://www.phaseone.com/en/Products/Camera-Systems/Lenses/Schneider-Kreuznach-120mm-LS.aspx
regards,
Jeffery
Thanks.
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We were glad to see so many of the IQ3 features will be available to IQ2 owners.
Autofocus has two modes Center and Center-Spot. Both modes are physically represented with rectangles in the viewfinder for easy understanding of exactly what is being included in the AF engine.
Ok. So to make sure I understand: We have a single central focus point, but it's improved.
Am I correct ?
Best regards,
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Ok. So to make sure I understand: We have a single central focus point, but it's improved.
Am I correct ?
Yes.
The AF sensor is center of the frame only. The improvement in this autofocus is not the ability to do point focus off-center, but instead it is:
1) much faster
2) much more accurate (critical for 50/60/80mp at wide open aperture)
3) much clearer view of exactly what you are focusing on
4) the option to use center or spot (see #3)
5) easy for P1 to continue to improve via firmware
Autofocus is not something you can get a feel for from a spec sheet or article.
We (Digital Transitions) got a preview of this system a week ago, and seeing the autofocus performance we rethought our entire "launch plan." We've scheduled Phase One XF Events (https://digitaltransitions.com/event/training/new-product-events-2015) in NYC, Chicago, Houston, Dallas, Denver, San Francisco, Miami, Birmingham, Philly, and DC.
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Yes the 120mm is a macro lens.
For clarity:
- The Schneider 120mm LS Macro is the same design as the Phase One 120mm D Macro but with a leaf shutter
- The Schneider 35mm LS Wide Angle is a completely new design and much improved over the Phase One 35mm D
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The IQ260 actually works at ISO 200 in LE mode when you dial ISO 140. It is basically a pull of 0.5 EV in post processing. You get exactly the same RAW data between ISO 140 and ISO 200 in LE mode of the IQ260.
I guess Phase One is now more honest this time so they just offer ISO 200 for the IQ380 straight away.
As the IQ380 is still a CCD, don't be too optimistic about the performance. I bet the dynamic range will still be worse than Canon in LE mode.
Good catch and I notice that the base on the 380 is now iso 50 no longer 35.
Paul
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Thank you Doug,
Looking forward to reading your field report on the Phase XF body and see the raw files from that superb looking Schneider 35mm LS Wide Angle.
The blue band was a nice touch.
regards,
Jeffery
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Having an excellent 35mm lens for my phase one SLR was what I always dreamed of! Wide angle was the Achilles hill of MF SLR that's why many shifted to technical's. I very much hope this new 35mm fulfill our dream so we can have the cake and eat it too!
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Having an excellent 35mm lens for my phase one SLR was what I always dreamed of! Wide angle was the Achilles hill of MF SLR that's why many shifted to technical's. I very much hope this new 35mm fulfill our dream so we can have the cake and eat it too!
Can't wait to share the files we have from P1 for the 35mm. Even more excited to receive our first one and put it through its paces.
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Because I'm a greedy, do we get flash TTL with the XF? Carrying around a Profoto B1/B2 in a run and gun situation would be a blast, especially with the built in Air transmitter.
Yes, I treat my medium format camera like a dslr, goes everywhere & shoots everything.
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I'd like to strongly lobby for Phase to develop and release a film back for the XF camera. I'm guessing that the marginal costs of doing so would be comparatively minimal and the film back could largely be based on the existing film backs for Mamiya (or Contax) 645 cameras. The costs would be more than recouped by the (admittedly small) portion of medium format digital users who also shoot film (to say nothing of those who would buy it as a film camera, as folks have done with the Hy6).
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bcooter,
I'm curious does the back rotate when using the waist level finder...
No. (http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=100849.msg826489#msg826489)
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Am I missing something or is phaseone cutting their ties to the professional imaging market with this move?
Obviously they've done their homework and are convinced high tech loving, well heeled enthusiast camera consumers are the target group.
Seriously, professional shooters who can put down 40 g's for a stills camera system? Or 8k for a body? Not in 2015.
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Hi Robert,
It's a big world out there with many different types of image makers. That would include Fine art, lifestyle and resort, high end advertising and architectural photographers who have brought Phase One digital backs and cameras.
Not mention Photography Equipment Rental houses or Production houses who like to have the latest tech on hand.
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in the real world there is no professional interest in these backs and in this body camera for that fat prices...to overpriced.
camera body is too overweight...
i have a lot of others solutions to shoot in a more free way...with same peep pixel quality...
the backs are only old sensor reshaped in new costume processor and pushed 1 stop !!! nothing to move for an upgrade.
and untill the next mouvement , the full frame cmos .....phase one shares will be eaten by all the others , leica s2 cmos 007,new pentax full frame cmos,nikon cmos 50 million, canon cmos 50 million and last from sony the biggest one !
sony probably is behind the phase one body , so they are making the market the japaneese the rest is only blah blah from sale people rep...
that is the real world.
if i really feel the need i can rent it , but i will never take it for a travel.
best,c.
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Hi Robert,
It's a big world out there with many different types of image makers. That would include Fine art, lifestyle and resort, high end advertising and architectural photographers who have brought Phase One digital backs and cameras.
Not mention Photography Equipment Rental houses or Production houses who like to have the latest tech on hand.
Yes, it is a big world and I'm sure there are people that can afford anything. But, I don't see a relevance anymore for professional photographers. I'm not ruling everybody out but a large proportion of professional photographers that shoot stills for print and web imaging, it just doesn't make economical sense. I have a p1 IQ160 and a df body. I use that camera for some of my studio work, but I won't be spending 8.000 for a better single autofocus point. I don't need a seismographic shutter release or a touch screen, etc. Yes, it's pretty and it's technically impressive, but it's irrelevant for shooting people in a studio. I'm not dissing the camera, but 8k? Really? For a camera with a single autofocus point? Really?
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J,
This is the current hi rez single shot solution. Rental and cultural will be happy.
Whether the new body is something a people photographer would *wish* to use is a different story.
Go and try it out, and tell us. I suspect that Leica and Hassy sales are going to jump, now that the ergonomics of the Phase product are locked in and have become a known quantity, especially the single focus point: The fence sitters who waited for a fast camera will jump ship now. Anyone who wanted a Pentax has probably already cut his check, and those who liked the Mamiya and who love C1 will upgrade after some grumbling about price, and will doubtless love this solid product.
Edmund
Ps. Have you seen the price and the quality of the Samsung S6 and iPhone 6+? They are neither cheap nor bad.
The tech is changing.
So I guess no more support for other makers cameras with new phase backs kind of puts an end to the "open platform" marketing line.
I'm curious does the back rotate when using the waist level finder and if not, what is the advantage of this body vs. a good used Contax?
Anyway, I'm sure it is a upgrade (fix) for some current phase owners that have the df camera and I guess an easier interface, but for everyone else it's kind of a redo to a new system.
From the outside looking in $20,000 starting price for a camera/back that is still image only seems high given that real full fledged movie cameras can be bought for 1/2 the price, fully kitted out and ready to go,
the list of used medium format grows higher and the competition seems to be trimming costs.
Pentax and Hasselblad marketing must be dancing in the hallways tonight.
IMO
BC
P.S. It may not sound like it, in the response I wrote, but I hope this and all professional cameras thrive.
Getting that out of the way, there is something to be said for getting it right the first time.
We all have been upgraded to death. Cameras, software, computers, rinse and repeat.
I think I get an e-mail a day on something new.
When you look at the movie biz, they're still cranking away on 2.6 k down sampled to 2k Arri's. Why? because Arri got it right the first time.
I'm sure the day will come that Arri produces a 4k camera and I'm sure it will be used, but in all reality it won't make any difference in the quality or creativity of the work produced.
I've tested uprezzing 2k footage up converted and directly compared it to 4 and 5k footage and can rarely tell a difference, in fact it always seems to be more scene, lighting dependent than just pure pixel count.
I think this holds true for still cameras. I'll bet that under most creative briefs, taking my Contax and a p30+ shooting next to this new Phase camera and an IQ back and nobody even the extreme pixel peepers will really see a difference.
Sure, a lot of professionals "can" put 40 grand on a still camera but when the pixels hit the screen will anybody notice, will anybody care?
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I think this holds true for still cameras. I'll bet that under most creative briefs, taking my Contax and a p30+ shooting next to this new Phase camera and an IQ back and nobody even the extreme pixel peepers will really see a difference.
Sure, a lot of professionals "can" put 40 grand on a still camera but when the pixels hit the screen will anybody notice, will anybody care?
This whole exercise was put into the proper perspective for me last night. I happened to have just purchased a coffee table book of color photographs by Steve McCurry, the Iconic Photographs. These are some of the most amazing images. Just breathtaking. All made with 35mm film, and I believe with old Nikons. Tack sharp? No way. Many are fairly fuzzy, and it did not detract one iota from the impact of the imagery. In a way, I wish it were otherwise, because it is much easier for me to afford an XF with a new IQ 380 than to make an image as powerful as the ones made by Steve McCurry.
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Hi Edmund,
We will all know once the camera is released and used in the field. As a "people" photographer (my website link is below) I'm looking forward to the adding the XF and the new 35mm LS (it looks like a serious piece of glass and fills the gap between the LS 28 and LS 55mm perfectly) to my camera kit.
I don't keep track of LEICA or Hassy sales. But I will say the new LEICA MM is a sweet camera and it would be great if on another thread a Hassy owner/user would give their experiences with the H5X camera body it sells for $7500 at BH.
regards,
Jeffery
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This whole exercise was put into the proper perspective for me last night. I happened to have just purchased a coffee table book of color photographs by Steve McCurry, the Iconic Photographs. These are some of the most amazing images. Just breathtaking. All made with 35mm film, and I believe with old Nikons. Tack sharp? No way. Many are fairly fuzzy, and it did not detract one iota from the impact of the imagery. In a way, I wish it were otherwise, because it is much easier for me to afford an XF with a new IQ 380 than to make an image as powerful as the ones made by Steve McCurry.
+1
Now, this is PJ work and to some extend a perfect image quality would almost hurt the credibility of the image as a stolen snapshot of a fleeting bit of reality.
For many other types of photography, starting with fashion, there is mostly no content to start with. Everything is in the looks of the image, everything is a construction aimed at pleasing the eye. Lowfi style is one option, but not a very credible one. It doesn't mean that the latest 50,000 US$ phase one back is a must, just that I understand the mental association between this type of images and high quality imaging devices.
As far as spending 50,000 US$ now when you consider the speed of depreciation and lack of full frame CMOS, my personal view is that it can only been seen as reasonable for pros with the cash inflow (providing they are honest about the scale of potential productivity gains). As an amateur, I would start to consider seriously a full frame CMOS IQ4, because that's a camera I wouldn't need to upgrade for many years to come. Although I fully acknowledge the progress being made and appreciate the great effort done by Phaseone, the current generation is IMHO still half baked.
Cheers,
Bernard
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This whole exercise was put into the proper perspective for me last night. I happened to have just purchased a coffee table book of color photographs by Steve McCurry, the Iconic Photographs. These are some of the most amazing images. Just breathtaking. All made with 35mm film, and I believe with old Nikons. Tack sharp? No way. Many are fairly fuzzy, and it did not detract one iota from the impact of the imagery. In a way, I wish it were otherwise, because it is much easier for me to afford an XF with a new IQ 380 than to make an image as powerful as the ones made by Steve McCurry.
Hi Hcubell,
Your work is beautiful. The world doesn't need another Steve McCurry. You have a wonderful visual voice feel free to share it.
regards,
Jeffery
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Jeffrey,
I have no doubt whatsoever that you will be happy with the new body. One can see that Phase have very carefully designed these upgrades to fit in with the rest of their system, and I am certain that they will quickly integrate with your existing workflow, be compatible with all your software, perform very well, and that —as you certainly already have a decent dealer— support will be first class. Furthermore, as the system is modular, any initial small bugs will be confined to the body itself; the backs are a known quantity, and the best quality one can get.
I personally like the Hassy body because it has a good AF solution, that solves the single-focus-point issue of most MF bodies. For me, focus trumps other qualities; but this is a personal quirk, like someone who prefers stick-shift cars. I would have like to see Phase provide focus points across the frame like an amateur SLR,, but probably Phase learnt from their market studies that their customers shoot closed down with studio flash and don't need such "gadgets". And for precision setups, liveview offers the possibility of setting focus wherever one wants when working from a tripod.
Some people like getting a "new" camera because it bumps them out of their comfort zone. Some want "like the old one, but better". I think the "better" crowd are going to be happiest with this evolutionary but not revolutionary release from Phase.
Edmund
Hi Edmund,
As a "people" photographer (my website link is below) I'm looking forward to the adding the XF and the new 35mm LS (it looks like a serious piece of glass and fills the gap between the LS 28 and LS 55mm perfectly) to my camera kit.
I don't keep track of LEICA or Hassy sales. But I will say the new LEICA MM is a sweet camera and it would be great if on another thread a Hassy owner/user would give their experiences with the H5X camera body it sells for $7500 at BH.
regards,
Jeffery
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Hi Hcubell,
Your work is beautiful. The world doesn't need another Steve McCurry. You have a wonderful visual voice feel free to share it.
regards,
Jeffery
Jeffrey,
I agree you're a people photographer :)
Hcubell, I will gratefully accept a print of yours, whenever you choose to send me one :)
Edmund
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Jeffrey - I have an H5X and Credo 40. It's amazing. I upgraded from an H1, which I shot on the Credo for 9 months or so and literally never shot a job for a client wider than 5.6. Now I shoot with the 80 wide open and probably get 80% in focus - true focus works.
-Doug
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My thoughts about the XY: Wonderful camera, I like the styling following the slight angles of the IQ back housing, makes camera and back look like crafted in one piece. The programmable dials are useful, the top LCD is also neat, flush in the housing. Making the system modular and offering a waist level finder and different matt screens is perfect.
For me the critical key points are:
1. An auto-focus system of any new camera system today must have out-of-center focus points. From the released information it is not clear to me if that is available with the XY camera.
2. The camera with crop MF 50 MP CMOS back with it's high price will face tough competition by a huge choice of less expensive 40-50 MP cameras in 44x33/ 45x30/ 36x24 mm format (Z645, S, D810, A7r, 5DsR) that all also deliver professional image quality.
3. Considering the 60/80 MP 54x40 mm back options, I today would hesitate to invest so much money into a CCD back. There are too many drawbacks like lack of high ISO quality, degration of image quality with longer exposure times and especially when the sensor heated up. I have the feeling, a 100MP+ CMOS MF full frame back is at the horizon if Phase already advertises such optical ability of the Schneider lenses.
4. And: The software of camera and back must work as perfect as we are used from the Japanese camera manufactures (my IQ180 only works flawlessly since the very last firmware update, before I had several kind of touch screen insensitivity and cards writing problems).
Enclosed a IQ180 sample crop of a sky at ISO 35: upper one normal, lower one a few minutes later after the sensor heated up at 30°C + in the sun of Guangzhou.
I am wondering if the 3series IQ CCD backs show the same phenomenon or are improved or simply shut down earlier?
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Schneider 35mm Full Res Sample Files (https://digitaltransitions.com/blog/dt-blog/phase-one-35mm-ls-f-35-full-resolution-test)
These were shot with the IQ380, and that is not yet supported in Capture One 8.3 so we can't share the raw files. The sharpening on this TIFF may be a bit heavy handed for some, so shoot us an email and I'll be glad to send you the raws once there is a public version of C1 which can open them.
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That is pretty impressive and a huge step up from the current 35mm I use, Doug. Can't wait to get a hold of the raw files!
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That is pretty impressive and a huge step up from the current 35mm I use, Doug. Can't wait to get a hold of the raw files!
+1
Cheers,
Bernard
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Very promising indeed, how come you reach such a depth of field Dough?! As if they are merged pictures with different focus point! How much technical camera, say Alpa/Rodenschtock, can get better than this really in terms of edge to edge resolution and sharpness?
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Doug:
First of all, nice shot, love the composition. Very impressive indeed on the corner, as a chaser of the sharp corner I can appreciate the details. I would like to see some shots closers to F3.5 to F8, same type of setup just to see if the corners hold up as well. Lots going for this lens for sure love the 77mm filter threading.
Hope to see some comparisons to maybe a 35XL or 32 Rodenstock, same F11, then around F6.3 or so, with no tilt on the tech lenses. The new 35LS may have a better hyperlocal distance than the Schneider and less Mustache distortion than the 40mm Rodie or 32mm Rodie.
Just wish this one was around a few years ago.
Paul
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Thanks Doug L
The photographers who have Hassy glass have some good options as well. A test shoot comparing the Phase One XF body to the Hasseblad H5X body would be lots of fun.
regards,
Jeffery
***sorry to go a bit off topic (Doug P)
Thanks for sharing the LS 35mm file. It looks very crisp. Is that your summer home?
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Thanks Doug L
The photographers who have Hassy glass have some good options as well. A test shoot comparing the Phase One XF body to the Hasseblad H5X body would be lots of fun.
regards,
Jeffery
***sorry to go a bit off topic (Doug P)
I second this!
A comparison in studio (Focus systems) and in the field (Edge quality of the 35mm vs the Hassy equivalent) would be pretty awesome.
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Thanks for sharing the LS 35mm file. It looks very crisp. Is that your summer home?
The photo is by Niels V. Knudsen the Image Professor. But it's not either of our summer homes ;D.
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The photographers who have Hassy glass have some good options as well. A test shoot comparing the Phase One XF body to the Hasseblad H5X body would be lots of fun.
I second this!
A comparison in studio (Focus systems) and in the field (Edge quality of the 35mm vs the Hassy equivalent) would be pretty awesome.
If either of you (or anyone else) would like to come to any of our US XF Body Events (https://digitaltransitions.com/event/training/new-product-events-2015) (NYC | Houston | Dallas | Boston | Philly | Chicago | D.C. | San Fran | Miami | Denver | Birmingham) we'd be glad to schedule a time within the day for you to spend meaningful time with both an H5X and a XF and make your own assessment. Shoot us an email so we can coordinate on when, during the days schedule, would be best to set that up.
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First of all, nice shot, love the composition. Very impressive indeed on the corner, as a chaser of the sharp corner I can appreciate the details. I would like to see some shots closers to F3.5 to F8, same type of setup just to see if the corners hold up as well. Lots going for this lens for sure love the 77mm filter threading.
I've seen some frames at f/4 and it was surprisingly good.
As you can imagine we will put it through its paces as soon as we get our first copy.
The filter thread is 105mm, not 77mm. Full (correct) specs are here: Schneider LS lenses (https://digitaltransitions.com/page/leaf-shutter-lenses). Phase One just redid their full website (at the same time as 3 new backs, 2 new bodies, a new C1 release, a new case, and a variety of smaller things) so I guess that page just slipped through the cracks.
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Very promising indeed, how come you reach such a depth of field Dough?! As if they are merged pictures with different focus point! How much technical camera, say Alpa/Rodenschtock, can get better than this really in terms of edge to edge resolution and sharpness?
It's a single frame. But the XF has a Hyperfocal focus mode which can automatically bring the lens to the exact hyperfocal point of the lens (based on your own criterium for how strict to be about infinity sharpness) which makes it easy to maximize DOF.
This shot was by Niels Knudsen of Phase One, not me.
In fairness a tech camera (https://digitaltransitions.com/page/tech-camera-systems-main) Arca/Cambo/Alpa etc provides rise/fall/shift/tilt, and I do think if we made a direct comparison (which we will likely do when we receive our first copy) we'd find the 32HR does edge it out very slightly in corner sharpness. However at some point you're arguing which super car does 0-60mph in 2.8 seconds vs 2.9 seconds; either one is fine by me :).
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It's a single frame. But the XF has a Hyperfocal focus mode which can automatically bring the lens to the exact hyperfocal point of the lens (based on your own criterium for how strict to be about infinity sharpness) which makes it easy to maximize DOF.
This shot was by Niels Knudsen of Phase One, not me.
In fairness a tech camera (https://digitaltransitions.com/page/tech-camera-systems-main) Arca/Cambo/Alpa etc provides rise/fall/shift/tilt, and I do think if we made a direct comparison (which we will likely do when we receive our first copy) we'd find the 32HR does edge it out very slightly in corner sharpness. However at some point you're arguing which super car does 0-60mph in 2.8 seconds vs 2.9 seconds; either one is fine by me :).
Image quality of the new 35mm lens looks amazing compared to any of the Mamiya/Schneider 28mm's and the previous 35's SLR lenses. It wipes the floor with those lenses. At least from looking at the linked image.
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It's a single frame. But the XF has a Hyperfocal focus mode which can automatically bring the lens to the exact hyperfocal point of the lens (based on your own criterium for how strict to be about infinity sharpness) which makes it easy to maximize DOF.
This shot was by Niels Knudsen of Phase One, not me.
In fairness a tech camera (https://digitaltransitions.com/page/tech-camera-systems-main) Arca/Cambo/Alpa etc provides rise/fall/shift/tilt, and I do think if we made a direct comparison (which we will likely do when we receive our first copy) we'd find the 32HR does edge it out very slightly in corner sharpness. However at some point you're arguing which super car does 0-60mph in 2.8 seconds vs 2.9 seconds; either one is fine by me :).
Thanks, do you know the f number used for those pictures please? f16 maybe? I can't find it in their EXIF
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Hallo,
First of all, Sorry for being off topic...
I would like to know if there is any possibility for Mamiya version of this body?
What is the future of Mamiya system?
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Three more questions please:
1. Will the XF body work with any current third party backs that are made for m645 mount? (eg. the Sinarbacks)
2. If not, will it allow third party backs to work on the platform via a new compatible interface plate?
3. Will the XF allow for multishot captures with a multishot able third party back?
Thanks...
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Thanks, do you know the f number used for those pictures please? f16 maybe? I can't find it in their EXIF
f/11
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f/11
Such a huge depth of field with f/11?! even using hyperfocal, its unbelievably phenomena! Or do I miss something?
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Such a huge depth of field with f/11?! even using hyperfocal, its unbelievably phenomena! Or do I miss something?
HF is about 6ft at f11 for 35mm (.03mm CoC)
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Acc. my DoF calculator the hyper focal distance for CoC 0,03 mm would be 3.64 m or 12 ft, not 6 ft.
I think CoC 0,03 mm is not sufficient. I suggest twice the used IQ180 pixel size = 0,01 mm. This leads for 35mm at f11 to a hyper focal distance of 11 m.
The bottom corners of the two pictures are much nearer than 11 m and therefore the sharpness seams quite unreal. My guesses: either due to the extreme C1 sharpening or if was f16 plus sharpening. Or two pics near + far combined?
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Acc. my DoF calculator the hyper focal distance for CoC 0,03 mm would be 3.64 m or 12 ft, not 6 ft.
I think CoC 0,03 mm is not sufficient. I suggest twice the used IQ180 pixel size = 0,01 mm. This leads for 35mm at f11 to a hyper focal distance of 11 m.
The bottom corners of the two pictures are much nearer than 11 m and therefore the sharpness seams quite unreal. My guesses: either due to the extreme C1 sharpening or if was f16 plus sharpening. Or two pics near + far combined?
You are mixing up HF distance with near-point for DoF. Yes, the focus point is 12 ft at these settings, this gives you a DoF from 6ft to infinity. Similarly, if you use .01 CoC, with a focal distance of 11mm, your near point for DoF will be about 12 ft (4m), not 11mm.
Having said this, in reality you are not going to see much of a difference between .03 and .01 from centre to corner. Field curvature, and most of these wides tend to pull DoF in at the edge of the field, further gives a perception of increased Dof in the corner.
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:: jsiva
reg. DoF near point and HF distance: ur right! sorry, my mistake
reg. potential field curvature: that could be the reason ... just in that case, it would not be sharp at infinity in the corners at the same time, but that cannot be examined by these two samples
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I'll be mostly absent from the forums for a few days as we prep for and run our Phase One XF Event in NYC (https://digitaltransitions.com/event/training/new-product-events-2015). If you have pressing questions feel free to post them here, but you're also welcome to email us directly.
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As an influential dealer, I'm disappointed that DT didnt push Phase One to continue the support for Contax.
Hasselblad V is a dead end system, and I'm relatively sure there were more Phase back sold for Contax than Hasselblad V (please correct me if I'm wrong) and the continuing demand is much greater. Yet Hasselblad V is still supported.
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As an influential dealer, I'm disappointed that DT didnt push Phase One to continue the support for Contax.
Hasselblad V is a dead end system, and I'm relatively sure there were more Phase back sold for Contax than Hasselblad V (please correct me if I'm wrong) and the continuing demand is much greater. Yet Hasselblad V is still supported.
The number of orders for Contax trail even Hasselblad V today by a good margin and so, bring up the rear for interface choices (and after many years of holding steady, Contax orders have declined quite a bit the past 2-3 years). It's too bad, but we all knew this day was coming at some point. I'm actually pretty surprised and pleased that digital backs have been produced for Contax as well as Hasselblad V for this long (10 years after the discontinuation of the camera).
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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As a long time V user, probably going for the XF camera in the next few years (as it has the promised WLF), i realise that if in these forums, a lot of people have the latest and newest, most of them Phamiya cameras. But out there in the studios it isn't really like that. In my corner of the world, of the 13 backs (professionaly used) from colleagues I know of
10 are Phase One, 3 Hasselblad (the P1 dealer is active, the Hasselblad one is not)
out of these 10 is 1 Contax, 4 V-Mount, 5 Mamiya and no H Mount. Some only use a view camera and probably don't care what mount it is in.
But of course, this can be different in other parts of the world.
Tom
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Thank you Steve for correcting me. What is your view on the fact that Contax second hand backs always demand higher price (around 1.5x) than H, Mamiya/Phase, and (a little less so) V back?
What we would really like to see is the back separated from the adapter plate. I remember one of the first MFDB, the Jenoptik Eyelike, one back and adapter plates for every kind of system. I dont think worrying that it would lower the sale is justified, quite likely the opposite.
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What we would really like to see is the back separated from the adapter plate.
Leaving the business aspects aside, I wonder if it is really possible technically to do this while garanteeing enough mechanical accuracy of sensor axis relative to lens axis?
I would think that the more interfaces you add, the higher the resulting tolerance stack.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Leaving the business aspects aside, I wonder if it is really possible technically to do this while garanteeing enough mechanical accuracy of sensor axis relative to lens axis?
I would think that the more interfaces you add, the higher the resulting tolerance stack.
Cheers,
Bernard
Seems to work fine for those using tech cams, which require an adapter plate of their own.
Taking things to the extreme, from memory there are some scenarios where there can be as many as 7 physical interfaces between the lens and the back in the ALPA system.
Done right, there's no reason why introducing another physical interface should cause a problem.
Kind regards,
Gerald.
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Seems to work fine for those using tech cams, which require an adapter plate of their own.
Taking things to the extreme, from memory there are some scenarios where there can be as many as 7 physical interfaces between the lens and the back in the ALPA system.
Done right, there's no reason why introducing another physical interface should cause a problem.
Kind regards,
Gerald.
Mirrorless such as Alpa is easier because all the focusing checking etc is done at the focal plane.
With box cameras everything needs to stay aligned, in particular the focus system is independent from the focal plane real position
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I agree with Gerald. Remember with film there's another interface which is the insert to film back, and it manages fine.
While Phase One would say its a matter of tolerance/calibration, make no mistake its a question of sale and how committed Phase One is towards being "open"
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Mirrorless such as Alpa is easier because all the focusing checking etc is done at the focal plane.
With box cameras everything needs to stay aligned, in particular the focus system is independent from the focal plane real position
Maybe I'm missing something, but this distinction doesn't make any sense to me at all.
With technical cameras, everything needs to stay aligned as well - throughout the entire chain.
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I have to say that both Luminous Landscape articles so far published about the XF and Phase One's current state of development, don't feel like authentic journalism to me. I'm not saying the XF isn't a great product or that there's anything inaccurate in the articles - but one writer has been very, very close to the company and the other has a vested interest as a vendor.
The most recent article reads more like an infomercial than a review and I'm disappointed that Luminous Landscape isn't reaching to find some reviewers who are better separated from the company.
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The most recent article reads more like an infomercial than a review and I'm disappointed that Luminous Landscape isn't reaching to find some reviewers who are better separated from the company.
Welcome to Luminous Landscape.
Have no fear. As soon as the many seasoned photographers, weekend warriors and landscape artists on this wonderful site have the XF and etc in hand. We will "Let it ring from the rafters".
Amen.
regards,
Jeffery
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Maybe I'm missing something, but this distinction doesn't make any sense to me at all.
With technical cameras, everything needs to stay aligned as well - throughout the entire chain.
Tech cams have a single optical path, SLRs have another viewfinder path thru mirror and prism, and a focus path thru secondary mirror to AF system.
Edmund
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For those tethering with USB...
Phase One IQ3 and XF will be powered by USB3 hubs which include Charging Ports (https://digitaltransitions.com/blog/dt-blog/phase-one-iq3-power-over-usb-surprise)
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I have to say that both Luminous Landscape articles so far published about the XF and Phase One's current state of development, don't feel like authentic journalism to me.[...] I'm disappointed that Luminous Landscape isn't reaching to find some reviewers who are better separated from the company.
We (Digital Transitions) would be glad to arrange for you to test the XF/IQ3 so you can make up your own mind and post your own findings. I don't claim that I'm unbiased - I'm biased as hell. But I'm also a big fan of real world evaluation, and glad to help facilitate that any way I can.
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I gotta hand it too you Doug. You can push the sales line. It's amazing you can take a readers critique of your "sales message" disguised as a journalistic report, and turn it around in an attempt to sell.
When I read this I thought, wow, if this guy would sell something with higher margins, like Teslas or Rolls Royce Jet Engines, but then I thought, hmmm, probably nothing has a higher margin than Phase One cameras.
IMO
BC
+1. Phase is in the luxury business, like Vuitton, Hermés. Products are well made, high margin, but don't really do anything a plastic shopping bag cannot.
I guess the A7RII at 10% of the Phase is the plastic shopping bag, and your momma raised no fools :)
E.
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When I read this I thought, wow, if this guy would sell something with higher margins, like Teslas or Rolls Royce Jet Engines, but then I thought, hmmm, probably nothing has a higher margin than Phase One cameras.
IMO
BC
Come visit our Weihnachtsmarkts in December. Glühwein worth 40 cents per cup is sold for EUR 6.
Surely, Phase's profit margin can't be that high? ;)
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phase unfortunetaly for them is not hermes or ferrari...
only few knows them,
we can say that leica is a brand with history that can be compared ,apple with apple.
so don t think that there will be a lot of buyers just to show off , with the brand phase one.
best.
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I agree with cooter...
There used to be a time years ago Doug when I listened to what you had to say regarding technical aspects of medium format. Sadly the past couple years you've turned into nothing more than a sales pitch and at least for me have lost credibility for the technical side of things.
Just my 2¢
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I tested the XF body in San Francisco at the Bear Images event. I hope to write out more detailed response but quickly a few notes since it seems there is a lot of salesmanship going on in this post. It's definitely a big improvement over the DF+ but I'd recommend that people try it out for themselves.
The AF is not noticeably faster than the DF+ and you can still count while it moves from near to far. I am told this has more to do with the AF motors in the existing lenses which are now driven as fast as possible. Maybe there will be newer versions of the lenses in the future which would enable it to go faster? I'm also told the honeybee naming comes from one of the guys who worked on the camera who keeps bees in his yard. It's not necessarily related to any special hardware. I can't recall who posted to the forums about potential upgrades to add more AF functionality such as multipoint but this doesn't seem likely at least with the digital backs that are currently offered. Hopefully someone will clarify that?
The exposure metering with the WLF fitted is limited to spot metering only, but complete metering is offered only with the prism attached.
The display visible in the viewfinder is about the same as in the DF+ which is too bad since the XF is a lot smarter and there is more info that could be shown in finder. They did not have a WLF available to test, but with one fitted you'll need to look at the display near the grip for info since there is nothing displayed in the frame or above it.
The camera is definitely built like a tank. I'm sure Phase One will be able to make ad's with trucks driving over them. It's definitely heavier than the DF, and though it has a nicer grip IMO, you still notice the weight.
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GOOD LUCK WITH THE SALES OF AN ALBATROSS....
best.
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GOOD LUCK WITH THE SALES OF AN ALBATROSS....
best.
I think we got it after the 57th time.
Best.
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It is just that technical cameras have a shorter chain, that may be built with higher precision.
An AF DSLR adds a lot of additional links. Think this way:
An ALPA body with a IQ-250 back focused in live view-> lens mount and sensor must be parallel and infinity focus must be possible.
A MF DSLR: bayonet and sensor needs to be parallell and infinity focus must be possible. Plus, Mirror position must be accurate, secondary mirror position must be accurate, AF-sensor position must be accurate, focusing screen position must be accurate. Adding to that both the mirror and the secondary mirror are rapidly moving assemblies.
Best regards
Erik
Maybe I'm missing something, but this distinction doesn't make any sense to me at all.
With technical cameras, everything needs to stay aligned as well - throughout the entire chain.
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Yesterday I was at the Phase One presentation of the new XF in Luxemburg. I was impressed of the funktionality of the XF.
My DF has a lot of bugs. It has the second shutter. With the DF the camera feels like a car were the front and he rear part is Range Rover and the middle is Lada Niva.
I have ordered my XF yesterday :-)
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I had an opportunity to play with one a few days ago. Very nice, feels good, love the programability and a very snappy A/F. The focus assist light was set at 50% power and someone focused it on me and DAM is that light bright. Really helps, I mean REALLY helps with A/F....I cant imagine the light at 100% power...LOL
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Anybody know the price for new 35 lens,xf body and 80back?
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As I remember the new 35mm is list at around 6300.00 US dollar. The XF is 7995.00 list. I can remember seeing the list on the 380 but I only was focused on the upgrade pricing which sadly came back way too high for me.
There is a trade in for the DF+ towards the purchase of the new XF where you receive 2000.00 for the old camera This lasts until 08/31/15 at least per the announcement material.
Paul
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Anybody know the price for new 35 lens,xf body and 80back?
In the US...
List price for an IQ380 + XF + Standard Viewfinder + 80LS is $48,990. That includes a five year warranty on all components (back + body + lenses purchased together) with a loan provided during any repairs or service during that five years.
List price for 35LS is $6,490
Of course from there are many options and combinations.
For example list price for an IQ180 + XF + Standard Viewfinder + 80LS is $40,990. At Digital Transitions we also create bundles where we swap the included 80LS lens for another lens (e.g. the 35LS) for the price difference between those lenses. There are upgrade and crossgrade paths available from most medium format gear, and leasing-to-own options. They body and back are, of course, also available for purchase separately (e.g. if you want to use the back on a tech camera, or if you already have a DF+ and a back and just want the upgrade your DF+ or buy the new body and use your DF+ as a backup).
I'd suggest chatting with your dealer about what options you have.
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In the US...
At Digital Transitions we also create bundles where we swap the included 80LS lens for another lens (e.g. the 35LS) for the price difference between those lenses.
I'd suggest chatting with your dealer about what options you have.
Not that it is being suggested by you, Doug, but just for clarity sake, the ability to swap the standard 80mm kit lens out with another lens for the difference in price is not an exclusive DT capability - any dealer in the US can do this for their customers.
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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That actually would be a really smart move, since the 80LS can be picked up for quite a bargain second hand. 35LS wont be on used market for another while and would command a premium.
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In the US...
List price for an IQ380 + XF + Standard Viewfinder + 80LS is $48,990. That includes a five year warranty on all components (back + body + lenses purchased together) with a loan provided during any repairs or service during that five years.
List price for 35LS is $6,490
Of course from there are many options and combinations.
For example list price for an IQ180 + XF + Standard Viewfinder + 80LS is $40,990. At Digital Transitions we also create bundles where we swap the included 80LS lens for another lens (e.g. the 35LS) for the price difference between those lenses. There are upgrade and crossgrade paths available from most medium format gear, and leasing-to-own options. They body and back are, of course, also available for purchase separately (e.g. if you want to use the back on a tech camera, or if you already have a DF+ and a back and just want the upgrade your DF+ or buy the new body and use your DF+ as a backup).
I'd suggest chatting with your dealer about what options you have.
Not that it is being suggested by you, Doug, but just for clarity sake, the ability to swap the standard 80mm kit lens out with another lens for the difference in price is not an exclusive DT capability - any dealer in the US can do this for their customers.
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
If one were to swap the standard 80mm kit lens with the new 120mm for example, would the 5 year warranty apply to the swapped lens/XF/IQ3 back combo? For reference, approximately how much allowance is given for the 80mm kit lens?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwS_p_fUsck
i think the new camera body looks ugly
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwS_p_fUsck
i think the new camera body looks ugly
Actually looks can be deceiving. I like the look of the XF and plan to purchase one before the upgrade period expires. The feature set, plus the fact that some future enhancements may be coming make it seem like a good long term body.
Plus now that Phase has a great 35mm lens, the use of this body is even more appealing to me. The XF and 35mm LS or even the 40-80mm LS would be a great solution for me, but for the cost of the optics.
BTW, thanks for the video link, best video I have seen so far on the new body as far as someone using it and showing the new features.
Paul
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwS_p_fUsck
i think the new camera body looks ugly
IMO, I thought quite the opposite, especially seeing (and handling) it for the first time alongside the aging DF. In my hands, it did feel much better, and since I do the majority of my shooting handheld, this is rather important to me. My experience with medium format is relatively limited (RZ67 a long time ago) and I haven't really kept up to date with the format on the digital side of things. Even if I hadn't read the press release prior to attending the Digital Transitions event, I would have immediately gravitated towards the XF; after handling it, the mental financial calculator started kicking into overdrive, lol.
Alvin
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Is the XF viewfinder any bigger than the DF?
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Is the XF viewfinder any bigger than the DF?
I like the XF viewfinder; my impression is it is less of a tunnel than the old finder. Phase have made a genuine effort to turn this into a solid product rather than another refresh of the old Mamiya line. Anyone who wants to stay with Phase will welcome the upgrade to the XF.
On the other hand a complete Sony A7RII system with a couple of decent Zeiss lenses will probably cost as much as the XF body alone, can do high ISO and video when needed, and will use Canon lenses like the superteles too. It's no wonder we're seeing a bunch of guys here try the Sony experiment.
Edmund
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Sounds promising. Anyone used them side by side?
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Hi, first post!
I am new and have been doing crazy amount of research on MF cameras. I narrowed my option down to P65+ and DF+ body or the XF and IQ140 combo based on what I can stretch financially. Once purchase I will be sticking to the combo for at least 2-3years. What's the better option?
XF and IQ140 new
New Futureproof body, cropped CCD, awkward compatibility function wise...
DF+ and P65+ second hand
Discontinued body, nice full sized sensor, dated LCD screen with poor feature....
I plan to shoot portrait and some fashion editorials with them. What are your thoughts? How would you choose?
Thanks.
Felix
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I am new and have been doing crazy amount of research on MF cameras. I narrowed my option down to P65+ and DF+ body or the XF and IQ140 combo based on what I can stretch financially. Once purchase I will be sticking to the combo for at least 2-3years. What's the better option?
XF and IQ140 new
New Futureproof body, cropped CCD, awkward compatibility function wise...
DF+ and P65+ second hand
Discontinued body, nice full sized sensor, dated LCD screen with poor feature....
I plan to shoot portrait and some fashion editorials with them. What are your thoughts? How would you choose?
Welcome Felix!
What do you mean by "awkward compatibility function wise"?
Will you be shooting mostly/all tethered or on location untethered as well? Is there a warranty on the DF+/P65+ kit?
How quickly do you shoot? The IQ140/XF will be a bit faster between frames and 40mp files are a bit faster to handle in post (though the difference is less than you'd think since a lot of work is done by proxy/cache in Capture One).
Have you tested each combination in a situation as close to your actual shooting as possible? That's really the best way to answer which of these combos best fits your needs/wants. Research is a good thing, but until it's in your hands it's all numbers/specs and other people's opinions/experiences.
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Welcome Felix!
What do you mean by "awkward compatibility function wise"?
Will you be shooting mostly/all tethered or on location untethered as well? Is there a warranty on the DF+/P65+ kit?
How quickly do you shoot? The IQ140/XF will be a bit faster between frames and 40mp files are a bit faster to handle in post (though the difference is less than you'd think since a lot of work is done by proxy/cache in Capture One).
Have you tested each combination in a situation as close to your actual shooting as possible? That's really the best way to answer which of these combos best fits your needs/wants. Research is a good thing, but until it's in your hands it's all numbers/specs and other people's opinions/experiences.
Thanks for your reply Doug.
Good advise on testing both out. I will be hopefully get my hands on the XF body next Sat as there isn't one yet here in New Zealand. I imagine I shoot mostly outdoor untethered. And by awkwardness I was referring to the lack of many XF features when paired with the IQ1 series digital backs. Will there be any chance to enable some XF features via FW updates in the future?
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For portrait work, you won't have as big a disadvantage using a cropped sensor, compared to landscaping.
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I've just received my XF yesterday. I didn't have much time to waste at the dealer because I was rushing to a recce. To get it out there, I'm coming from a 645df body and am still using an IQ160. I have a particular disdain for the 645df, so there's a level of bias. My brief use yesterday will probably echo what has been said. However, I'm devoid of camera brand politics and have no delusions about a camera being magically related to photographic ability. I think my perspective is valuable as someone who is already invested, but still late to the Phase party, is a working photographer, and has no interest in whining.
Overall impression: this is not a come to Jesus moment - meaning - If you are not already invested in Phase, I cannot see a compelling reason to do so given the quality of other offerings.
However, if you're already invested in Phase and need to shoot with an SLR, this is a Phase camera that is actually worth using. Albeit in ideal scenarios. It may even be the cheapest part of your kit(if you got a trade in deal)
Bring a 5dsr or a7ii along with it and you've got a really versatile kit. If we forget the price for a second and just look at the scenario. Phase, as a system, is geared towards people who have a strong idea of what they're shooting. (Read: professionals who have a predictable scenario). I bought Phase initially to use a tech camera and have expanded into portrait work, so most of the bells and whistles that are being touted don't apply to me on two levels. 1. My iq160 receives little to none of the benefit of XF's innovations. 2. I don't need most of them.
Compared to the DF - the XF autofocus is lightning. The centre weighted matrix still presents the same problems it always has, but overcomes the problems quicker. The build quality is beautiful and the ergonomics are much more thought out. Putting the camera together is simple and intuitive. Though heavier, it is much easier to hold and use vs the DF. The DF was awful and Phase should pay reparations to people who had to use them. The menus are sleek and confusing at first, and I can't change the ISO from the camera body. I need time to dig into the actual features contained therein, but I think the level of customization will ultimately be a huge plus. The viewfinder is big and bright, I feel like I can finally see what's in focus, even on my legacy 120 macro.
More to come if people are interested in hearing about it as I use it more. If anyone has any questions I'm happy to field them - not going to grab a iq360 with new lenses and sit around and photograph color charts and weird still life though. Next on my list is tethered performance and battery life.
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I've just received my XF yesterday. I didn't have much time to waste at the dealer because I was rushing to a recce. To get it out there, I'm coming from a 645df body and am still using an IQ160. I have a particular disdain for the 645df, so there's a level of bias. My brief use yesterday will probably echo what has been said. However, I'm devoid of camera brand politics and have no delusions about a camera being magically related to photographic ability. I think my perspective is valuable as someone who is already invested, but still late to the Phase party, is a working photographer, and has no interest in whining.
Overall impression: this is not a come to Jesus moment - meaning - If you are not already invested in Phase, I cannot see a compelling reason to do so given the quality of other offerings.
However, if you're already invested in Phase and need to shoot with an SLR, this is a Phase camera that is actually worth using. Albeit in ideal scenarios. It may even be the cheapest part of your kit(if you got a trade in deal)
Bring a 5dsr or a7ii along with it and you've got a really versatile kit. If we forget the price for a second and just look at the scenario. Phase, as a system, is geared towards people who have a strong idea of what they're shooting. (Read: professionals who have a predictable scenario). I bought Phase initially to use a tech camera and have expanded into portrait work, so most of the bells and whistles that are being touted don't apply to me on two levels. 1. My iq160 receives little to none of the benefit of XF's innovations. 2. I don't need most of them.
Compared to the DF - the XF autofocus is lightning. The centre weighted matrix still presents the same problems it always has, but overcomes the problems quicker. The build quality is beautiful and the ergonomics are much more thought out. Putting the camera together is simple and intuitive. Though heavier, it is much easier to hold and use vs the DF. The DF was awful and Phase should pay reparations to people who had to use them. The menus are sleek and confusing at first, and I can't change the ISO from the camera body. I need time to dig into the actual features contained therein, but I think the level of customization will ultimately be a huge plus. The viewfinder is big and bright, I feel like I can finally see what's in focus, even on my legacy 120 macro.
More to come if people are interested in hearing about it as I use it more. If anyone has any questions I'm happy to field them - not going to grab a iq360 with new lenses and sit around and photograph color charts and weird still life though. Next on my list is tethered performance and battery life.
Hi James - nice little write up. On target with my thoughts in a lot of ways. BTW - you can adjust ISO with the 3rd dial wheel, next to the rear buttons (see attached). Or customize a different button for that.
*Edit - James, I spaced on the fact you have an IQ160, so for IQ1 series, you're right, the 3rd dial won't control the ISO, so it must be changed from the IQ160 itself (or through C1).
Steve Hendrix
CI
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Is the viewfinder any bigger? Brighter is mentioned but what about size? Is manual focusing easier?
Do backs with firmware for the XF work with the RZ67 Pro IID too? What about a 645AFD (the very first Mamiya version and here I mean does it trigger the shutter and capture an image, nothing else)?
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Actually the size increase is more significant, IMO than the brightness increase.
If you hold both up to your eyes (turning the cameras in opposite directions to get them vertical) you can view the world in a sort of [DF+ / XF] Binocular configuration. Holding them like this lets you make very easy direct comparison. It also makes you look rather dorky (will post a picture later for full self depreciating experience).
The XF Viewfinder is:
- slightly brighter
- slightly less warming (more accurate)
- a good deal larger
- detachable (allowing WLF option)
- moderately heavier
- more specific in showing the AF area*
Whether you can focus manually is something I'd rather leave to you to test for yourself as a great deal depends on your eyes, your normal working distance to the subject, and your typical working apertures. But yes, the increased size of the viewfinder should provide a better tool for manually focusing.
*Notably the currently shipping XF bodies do not have the new ground glass, but will receive them when they are ready. The final shipping ground glass has two rectangles, both smaller than the circle shown in the DF+ ground glass, and the smaller of which is quite tiny. They represent the average and spot focus areas respectively. I played with an XF with this new ground glass in Copenhagen and it is, in my opinion, a big improvement as far as indicating to the user exactly what the AF sensor is looking at. But we'll have to wait until that final ground glass starts shipping to get wider (less biased) opinions.
Update: here's a photo of us testing it: https://instagram.com/p/5PtQ4ri51K/?taken-by=digitaltransitions
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Steve, thanks, I'm finding it a pleasure to use so far. It's the first camera I've used in a while which made me feel like I might benefit from a comprehensive tutorial. As for the ISO -I gathered as much when the dial did absolutely nothing. Minor inconvenience I guess. Is that a fixable issue or are we with the 1 series out of luck?
Marko - Yes, the viewfinder is crystal clear, and I feel much more confident that I have focused properly. What this can be attributed to, Doug seems to have answered. Looking through the viewfinder has an unimpeded quality to it. I'm still not going to be shooting moving things at 2.8 though. Unless maybe at 800, at which point the files are mushy anyway.
A few notes from a quick shoot today. Forgive me for reiterating things that are probably listed somewhere.
- The new firmware has a few, new, more legible icons that help monitor back status.
- Mirror up mode seems to be finicky. Some shots never came in or were never taken, though when I held the shutter button down a bit longer, it fired and captured reliably.
- it's easy to accidentally press buttons and end up in modes and places you didn't intend.
- I have to apologize less for camera slowing the shoot.
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What about OOF areas? I do care about it when doing an environmental portrait.
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Thanks for the detailed replies! I really like a good optical prism finder in a camera and it seems the XF has it. More so if using manual lenses. Cant wait to use one
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Felix - What about OOF areas do you want to know? I haven't put any different lenses on so I didn't expect a change.
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I feel like I read somewhere that there would eventually be a split prism ground glass available. Is this correct?
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I feel like I read somewhere that there would eventually be a split prism ground glass available. Is this correct?
Sounds like early bodies shipped with the old DF+ ground glass. But that will be replaced with this, per Doug P. Knowing how easy it is to scratch the ground glass when changing it, looks like it was not a good idea to be on the early out list for the XF.
*Notably the currently shipping XF bodies do not have the new ground glass, but will receive them when they are ready. The final shipping ground glass has two rectangles, both smaller than the circle shown in the DF+ ground glass, and the smaller of which is quite tiny. They represent the average and spot focus areas respectively. I played with an XF with this new ground glass in Copenhagen and it is, in my opinion, a big improvement as far as indicating to the user exactly what the AF sensor is looking at. But we'll have to wait until that final ground glass starts shipping to get wider (less biased) opinions.
Paul
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Quick update, we have discovered the cause of the incompatibility between the 80/1.9 and the XF. This lens has a slightly protruding lip around the rear element. It does not appear to have any function but is a fraction of a mm further back into the mount than with other lenses of this generation.
We've had the ring reduced down here in NYC and it is now mounting and operating normally. We need to do more testing to be sure, but I believe this is a complete fix to the issue.
More details soon. We're in the middle of Service Day (https://digitaltransitions.com/event/training/dt-gear-tune-up-day-july-22-2015).
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Hi Doug, any test regarding new 80MB back noise in long exposure, say 60 min? generally is new back noise less or better than IQ280? any picture please?