Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Digital Cameras & Shooting Techniques => Topic started by: Philmar on May 04, 2015, 11:19:00 am
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Recently I moved to within a 2 minute walk of Lake Ontario which opens new photographic opportunities for me. I am ready to take my photography to the next level and want to buy a quality 10 stop ND filter and polarizing filter. Up to now I have been using a cheapo Cameron variable ND filter. Although photography is my hobby, I’ve been able to generate income through image sales on Getty Images. So I am willing to pay for a top-end filter.
I am trying to decide between the Singh Ray, the Lee Big Stopper and the Breakthrough Photography X3 ND. I had never heard of Breakthrough Photography until I read this stellar review on
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/10-Stop-Neutral-Density-Filter.aspx
I have trusted that site for lens reviews many times previously (the lens quality comparison tool is great).
However, NONE of the other ND filter reviews I’ve read mention the Breakthrough Photography ND filter so any feedback on that filter would be very useful.
The Lee filter system looks like it is more time consuming to use in its set up but exposure metering and focusing could be faster once set up. And it looks like there is a more pronounced colour cast with it. I am also curious if they are more likely to be dropped by a klutz such as I. Looks like the system is good for stacking filters.
Can one stack the Singh Ray filters (i.e. polariser and ND filter) without significant vignetting?
Any insight on these systems would be greatly appreciated !
I thank you in advance.
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I have several of the filters, personally I think Singh-Ray is overpriced and I have had some issues with them in the past and have not dealt with them since then. They make good filters but overpriced, IMO. I have the Lee system and it works great, I have their original 10 stop and it does have a color cast that is easily correctable in post processing. They supposedly have fixed this with newer versions and also HiTech makes a 10 stop that is supposed to be neutral. The Lee system is expensive but very versatile.
When I got my Fuji I wanted a lighter system for solid ND filters so I ended up getting some B+W ND filters in 77mm and use step up rings and they work great. I am quite happy with the their ND filters and the quality. When Breakthrough did their Kickstarter I decided to get some of their ND filters, I ended up getting a 6 and 3 stop 77mm filters, after some delays they did ship, I can deal completely with the delays, that was not an issue. Their filters look comparable to the B+W. They are a small company and I have had some exchanges and dealings with them about some other filters they are selling and was not happy with the exchanges with them, so I would probably not order anything else from them. I did receive them and they do look great but the small difference for the B+W filters is not that big a deal for me. I am also happy with the Lee Filters. So their filters look ok, I have only used them a couple of times, the quality seems ok.
Alan
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Thanks for the reply.
How about the ease of use? Is the Lee system cumbersome and more prone to dropping a filter? Were there times were it too too long to set up and a shot was missed?
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As for ease of use that is hard to say one or the other. It really depends on what my intentions are at the time. Not trying to be vague but it kind of depends. They are both easy to use, one is perhaps more versatile. If I am out doing landscapes and I am taking my time then I will probably use the Lee system. Lately with the Fuji mirrorless I use the grad filters less and less and in fact rarely use them any more, I just bracket and mask and layer in PS. Lately and it is more of trend at the moment, the only filters I am using are polarizers and solid ND filters.
The Lee are nice and I use the WA adapter rings for my lenses. Since I will be using a tripod and I carry the Lee stuff in two small "pocket" type bags that I attach to my camera bag, they are easy to access and use. I do not have a polarizer for the LEE just too expensive for me. So I would use a rotating polarizer on the lens then attach the LEE adapter to the polarizer and then use the grad ND and ND filters as needed. No real fear of dropping them. Although I had a warming polarizer in a glass filter and I had the filter and case in a back pocket and forgot about it and then sat down on a rock.... sigh.. last time I did that. That was the only problem. The pros of this system is it is easier to add and remove filters and adjust them to get the effect you want. Bulkier to carry as they are bigger, vignetting can be an issue with really ultra wide angles. Also sun reflections and be a problem with stacked filters but you can shade them, just look for them.
With the smaller and lighter camera setup, I use another pocket type bag with the screw on filters in them, they are all 77mm and I have step up rings to use on various lenses. These are easy to use for the most part but once you have them on it can be difficult to compose, with an EVF like on the Fuji that is not a problem as it can "see" through just fine and it will also autofocus, which is nice. With the LEE the filter holder is easy to remove for framing, etc then clip it back on. With the screw on filters there is less chance of internal reflections and I can also use a larger rubber sunshade to the get any lens flare etc.. There is a chance of getting dust and particles in between the filters, so I am pretty finicky about checking before I screw them together. The big advantage is it is less stuff to carry and smaller. For me it easier to get fingerprints on the screw on filters than the larger LEE filters. The are smaller and easier to drop too but I am have not dropped any yet!
So kind of six of one, half dozen of another. Lately I prefer carrying the screw on filters, especially just for day trips. Longer trips I may take both.
Alan
So
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WOW - your reply is greatly appreciated Alan!
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You're welcome, hopefully it answered your question or at least gave something to think about, as in anything these are just my opinions. Others may have different views.
Alan
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I have several of the filters, personally I think Singh-Ray is overpriced and I have had some issues with them in the past and have not dealt with them since then. They make good filters but overpriced, IMO.
Ron Martinsen has reviewed a number of variable density neutral density filters here (http://www.ronmartblog.com/2015/01/comparison-variable-neutral-density.html) and concluded that Singh-Ray may be the best but that Hoya is also good and a better value. Tiffin sucked. B+W was good but did not go as dark as some of the others. Any other opinions?
Bill
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I have the Singh Ray Vari ND - and it was terrible for me frankly. I ruined an entire set of photographs on a 24mm lens at point of the arches. It's not built for wide angles. On another note, I have a Vari ND filter for sale, and it's fairly good for longer lenses I hear... I've replaced it with the Tiffen 1.2 Digital HT and I've been happy with the results from this filter. No color cast, does the job. I'm currently looking for a 10 stop however, I'll probably go single filter as whenever I stack I seem to run into issues with light reflecting strangely, vignette, or the filter cutting into my field of view on wider lenses.
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I have tried a couple of variable ND filters and they have been lousy, the best is with solids and stack or have a variety. If you are not careful with variable ND's you can get strange tonal patterns. For me they were not worth the money.
Alan
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Ron Martinsen has reviewed a number of variable density neutral density filters here (http://www.ronmartblog.com/2015/01/comparison-variable-neutral-density.html) and concluded that Singh-Ray may be the best but that Hoya is also good and a better value. Tiffin sucked. B+W was good but did not go as dark as some of the others. Any other opinions?
Bill
Thanks Bill - looks like he tested it at 95 mm which doesn't refute maddog's observation that the Ray Singh was not very good when used on a wide angle (thanks MDM).
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Their original 10-stop filters were bad but Formatt/Hitech firecrest filters have some impressive test results on their site.
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I took the Breakthrough 10 stop ND out for a test yesterday. I think it's excellent.
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No ND is 100% color neutral, contrary to what a manufacturer says. Here's a few real-world ND comparisons I shot out at Discovery Park in Seattle:
(http://breakthrough.photography/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Control-vs-Firecrest-vs-B-W-vs-X3-ND-Closeup-4-best-nd-filter-review-1024x411.jpg)
(http://breakthrough.photography/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Control-vs-X3-ND-6-stop-vs-Formatt-Firecrest-ND-6-stop-vs-B-W-ND-6-stop-Review-Closeup-1-best-nd-filter-review-1024x691.jpg)
(http://breakthrough.photography/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Control-vs-Firecrest-vs-B-W-vs-X3-ND-Closeup-3-best-nd-filter-review-1024x411.jpg)
(http://breakthrough.photography/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/X3-10-vs-BW-10-vs-LEE-10-closeup-1-best-nd-filter-1024x663.jpg)
My recommendation is just to buy a few from a place like Amazon, and since almost all the companies say "zero color cast" just return the ones that suck the most until you're left with one, and check the checkbox on Amazon that says 'Didn't match product description' when returning.
Graham
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Are these white balanced or as I suspect straight out of camera to compare the differences? What I'd find more interesting is the results after WB to see if the cast has any significance to the final colour balance.
Many LE shots I've seen often end up B&W but of the colour ones out there the muted and cool tones to the LEE Big Stopper look very pleasing to my eye. Not sure if this is the asthetic of the filter or just how they were processed.
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Are these white balanced or as I suspect straight out of camera to compare the differences? What I'd find more interesting is the results after WB to see if the cast has any significance to the final colour balance.
Many LE shots I've seen often end up B&W but of the colour ones out there the muted and cool tones to the LEE Big Stopper look very pleasing to my eye. Not sure if this is the asthetic of the filter or just how they were processed.
yes, RAW straight out of camera
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I've found that the colour cast tends to be stray light from the viewfinder.
I use a B&W 10 stop ND filter and if I forget to close the eyepiece/viewfinder shutter I get problems with colour casts, if I close it the problem is much reduced.
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I haven't noticed color cast as a result of the light leak through viewfinder but I've definitely noticed less contrast and saturation, as well as exposure being off :\
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I'm typically using a Nikon D3s and have noticed that the red/pink cast is greater when I forget to close the viewfinder shutter.
Perhaps other cameras aren't susceptible that way, but yes reduced contrast is another thing that occurs.
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I've been pondering long exposure photography for about 18months, wondering which ten stop filter to get and recently finding this topic has refuelled my interest. Being very much a LEE filter guy and loving the system I naturally ordered the Big Stopper this week, however I wobbled at the last minute and cancelled my order concerned with the IR contamination. I know just bumping the WB to 10,000K sorts the blue cast out but I was worried what effect the IR contamination would have on other colours when doing exposures longer than a minute or two so I opted for the Hitech Formatt Firecrest IRND 10 Stop filter instead after reading glowing reviews.
For those interested, filter ordered from Teamwork in London and has now arrived and I'm more than pleased (going to order the 16 stop version now). See images attached below to see how neutral this filter is, needing an adjustment of only +550K and -6 Tint to balance the colour (by eye) to the un-filtered capture. While this might not be considered totally neutral, its excellent considering the competition and bang on 10 stops also.
1. No filter, 40th sec F13 - 5600K, +7 Tint
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/88840150/Forum%20Images/No%20Filter.jpg)
2. Firecrest 10 stop ND, 25sec F13 - No Corrections with settings as above 5600K, +7 Tint
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/88840150/Forum%20Images/Firecrest%2010%20stop%20ND%20-%20No%20Corrections.jpg)
3. Firecrest 10 stop ND, 25sec F13 - Corrected with settings of 6150K, +1 Tint
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/88840150/Forum%20Images/Firecrest%2010%20stop%20ND%20-%20Corrected.jpg)
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I can't believe the gnomes stood still for so long. They are usually pretty restless creatures.
kirk
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I can't believe the gnomes stood still for so long. They are usually pretty restless creatures.
Indeed, don't trust the buggers (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9xROONPy6Y) ...
Cheers,
Bart
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Here's a straight gray card out of the camera RAW (NEF) opened in Windows File Manager/Explorer between a 'No Filter' shot and a Lee "Big Stopper" 10-stop ND. No processing other than JPG size to post.
The "Big Stopper" goes blue, and some crank up the Kelvin about 4,000K to compensate if they don't want to in post. The B+W goes the other way into the red and they suggest to use their IR filter in conjunction with their 10-stop ND.
Really don't know why B+W/Schneider or Lee cannot get it right, or agree they are off and correct it after all these years. I can't see it related to film either as they still go opposite directions. Maybe Lee thought it was most useful to water shots and they wanted the water more blue? B+W seems to want you to buy another filter to fix it.
SG