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Author Topic: Effective viewfinders for technical cameras  (Read 2401 times)

joezl

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Effective viewfinders for technical cameras
« on: March 08, 2011, 10:46:14 pm »

I'm hoping to eventually purchase a Cambo WRS tech camera. I had a brief hands on evaluation of the camera and think I would quite enjoy using it (I used a Mamiya 7 a lot during my film days). My only hesitation with the camera is the truly awful viewfinder. I just couldn't make sense of the frame lines and the extreme distortion is very distracting. I don't want to always use a GG and am ok with focusing with the aid of a laser rangefinder but I really don't think I could use the Cambo viewfinder. Has anyone used or rigged up a viewfinder for a tech camera that is convenient and useful? Adapted Linhof or Voigtlander finders? Anything?
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tom_l

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Re: Effective viewfinders for technical cameras
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2011, 01:17:47 am »

IMO there isn't really a great viewfinder for pancake cameras out there. All are more or less precise with wide angle lenses, and not really useful for longer lenses. I quite happy with the shiftable viewfinder from Silvestri where you can shift your metal frames (1 frame = 1 focal length) up and down.


Tom
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Anders_HK

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Re: Effective viewfinders for technical cameras
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2011, 02:16:25 am »

I am in same thoughts of Alpa system...

Following are my considerations:

(1) Viewfinder:  Voigtlander 15-35mm Zoom Viewfinder
This one is in 35mm/3:2 format basically, but if set on equivalent focal as corresponding in height of view as your lens, it should enable in simple means to accurate compose.
Use: (a) No shift or rise. (b) Estimate for stitched image.

Read here:  http://www.cameraquest.com/voigtacc.htm
Price: ~530 USD @ B&H

(2) GG Magnifier:  Rodenstock 6X Aspherical Loupe
Features 57mm diameter of view @ 6X magnification (!)
Use: Accurate composition using custom drawn frame lines (non stitch and stitch) and when rise-fall, shift.

Read here: http://www.rodenstock-photo.com/mediabase/original/e_Rodenstock_Magnifiers_74-75__8229.pdf
Price: 376 USD & B&H

(3) No viewfinder or Magnifier
While some say they can compose without a viewfinder or magnifier, in my humble view in order to accurate compose one needs to be able to accurate view.

Regards
Anders
« Last Edit: March 09, 2011, 02:18:37 am by Anders_HK »
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skimasks

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Re: Effective viewfinders for technical cameras
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2011, 02:21:42 am »

Ground glass and shimming is probably the best way to go....or tethering and live view (although my live view has been so spotty lately that it hasn't been worth while. It is very touchy..the whole c1pro live view process)

I shoot a WRS and use a mixture of tethered live view, my own iphone viewfinder cold shoe rig, and guess and check shooting to make compositional decisions.

Christopher

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Re: Effective viewfinders for technical cameras
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2011, 04:37:22 am »

I would say a iphone or similir phone with the right application is the perfect fit. Better than almost anything else.
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Christopher Hauser
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IanB

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Re: Effective viewfinders for technical cameras
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2011, 05:18:49 am »

When I was learning to use a view/technical camera I used a simple piece of black card with the format mask cut out at full size. The distance you hold it from your eye equals the focal length (roughly). It is surprisingly useful for visualisation, and you can mimic rise/shift and back tilt as well. You then know where you want to set up the camera and which lens you need to get the right field of view, and you just fine tune and focus using the ground glass (at least that focuses fine with film, anyway!). That only lasted for a few weeks, however, and now I can visualise the view from my lenses pretty accurately just by looking unaided. It is surprising how quickly you get the hang of it. I'd recommend trying this in the first instance, simply as it costs nothing - there is a good chance that you will soon find you just don't need a viewfinder at all.

This is, of course, the simple reason why technical camera users can accept c**p viewfinders (but not necessarily why we should...).
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Dick Roadnight

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Re: Effective viewfinders for technical cameras
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2011, 06:16:29 am »

When I was learning to use a view/technical camera I used a simple piece of black card with the format mask cut out at full size. The distance you hold it from your eye equals the focal length (roughly). It is surprisingly useful for visualisation, and you can mimic rise/shift and back tilt as well. You then know where you want to set up the camera and which lens you need to get the right field of view, and you just fine tune and focus using the ground glass (at least that focuses fine with film, anyway!). That only lasted for a few weeks, however, and now I can visualise the view from my lenses pretty accurately just by looking unaided. It is surprising how quickly you get the hang of it. I'd recommend trying this in the first instance, simply as it costs nothing - there is a good chance that you will soon find you just don't need a viewfinder at all.

This is, of course, the simple reason why technical camera users can accept c**p viewfinders (but not necessarily why we should...).
If the sensor dimensions are equal to the width of two or three fingers, you can do without the card,,, or, for longer lenses, one finger at arm's length is about a degree and a quarter, a fist at arm's length is a 300mm lens on a 50mm sensor, etc. Hold you thumbs together and extend your little fingers - that is somewhere near 30 degrees.
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Hasselblad H4, Sinar P3 monorail view camera, Schneider Apo-digitar lenses

roskav

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Re: Effective viewfinders for technical cameras
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2011, 09:32:35 am »

You just get to know your lenses for wide angle work... you walk to the spot, put the tripod down .. take the shot .. look at the preview .. shift it a bit then you've got your shot.  (Works for buildings anyway  :)  )  It can be a pain for any lens after 90mm though.. I take off the back and use a ground-glass for composing the shot.  Mind you something like the artec must be nice to use in this respect.

R
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JdeV

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Re: Effective viewfinders for technical cameras
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2011, 04:23:12 pm »

As these things go the Arca viewfinder is the best I've come across.

However I just use a 35mm DSLR with a zoom and some shift lenses to work stuff out. Some times I nail it with just that.
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joezl

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Re: Effective viewfinders for technical cameras
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2011, 09:50:32 pm »

Thanks for all your replies. I'm think I might just need some time to try out several of the suggestions and settling on the one I'm most comfortable with. Then again, I can wait to see what the live view is like on the new Phase IQ backs. That might be the best solution.
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ggriswold

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Re: Effective viewfinders for technical cameras
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2011, 05:18:06 am »

If you don't have an IQ back in you near future use an old 500 series Hasselblad "stovepipe" viewfinder (with foam around the bottom) to see what your framing is with last shot being shown... this works even in daylight.  So: shoot, review, inspect, adjust and re-shoot.  This does not take too long, and results are guaranteed. If you are working with a larger MP back you can leave a little room to crop and precisely straighten in post.  I have the Cambo VF and use it in a few situations, but when I have the time use the view and re-shoot method. The most shocking thing about using the Hassy finder is you really see how low-rez the old Phase One display is, but that has been covered ad nauseum.  It certainly lets you know what you are framing.
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