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Author Topic: Hard to believe it is CG  (Read 17305 times)

AndrewDyer

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Hard to believe it is CG
« on: January 12, 2010, 03:48:32 am »

Well... it does have some large format cameras in it.

Here is the description that is on the page.
"A FULL-CG animated piece that tries to illustrate architecture art across a photographic point of view where main subjects
are already-built spaces. Sometimes in an abstract way. Sometimes surreal."



It is hard to believe that one guy did all this.
I hope you peoples like it... it blew my mind.

enjoy.
Andrew
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DArmand

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Hard to believe it is CG
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2010, 06:45:25 am »

I agree it's a totally awesome piece of work. Especially when you consider it's all done by one guy. There are also a couple of videos showing how he did it.

It isnt totally CGI though - he has composited some live footage in as well I believe - but it is still an outstanding piece of work that is also quite beautiful to look at. Creating quite a stir on a lot of CGI sites as well  
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froesner

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Hard to believe it is CG
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2010, 06:59:23 am »

Thank you Andrew for posting this.

Stunning

Cheers,
Frank

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PeterA

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Hard to believe it is CG
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2010, 07:43:11 am »

thanks for posting...

stunning work makes one think..
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LiamStrain

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Hard to believe it is CG
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2010, 08:14:37 am »

Makes me hope my clients don't start to use renderings instead of photographs.

Stunning piece. I linked it on my blog too. Thanks for sharing.

Shirley Bracken

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« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2010, 08:34:05 am »

That was mesmerizing!  Thanks for the link.
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Mitchell Baum

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Hard to believe it is CG
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2010, 10:08:48 am »

I liked it, but I liked his piece on Kahn's Exeter Library more. It's on the same website. What a beautiful building, beautifully captured!

Best,

Mitchell
« Last Edit: January 12, 2010, 10:09:41 am by Mitchell Baum »
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michele

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Hard to believe it is CG
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2010, 11:17:42 am »

Beautiful

DanielStone

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Hard to believe it is CG
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2010, 12:00:26 pm »

reminds me somewhat of Gattaca.

music and lighting

so how many of you think that this is the possible future of photography/illustration/advertising?

-Dan
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Abdulrahman Aljabri

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Hard to believe it is CG
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2010, 12:08:35 pm »

OMG! what is this? Can somebody tell me what is this CGI stuff?

Is it a threat to photography?!!!! lol

The lighting in this video sure makes my photography look like a monkey
« Last Edit: January 12, 2010, 12:09:07 pm by Abdulrahman Aljabri »
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Carsten W

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Hard to believe it is CG
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2010, 01:45:08 pm »

I work in the CG industry, coding a renderer, and this kind of ability has been around for years. Mostly, there is no threat to photography from this kind of production, since it takes months to put something like this together, much more time than simply lighting and shooting a situation.

The only area where CG is making real inroads, to my knowledge, is, as mentioned above, when the CAD data are ready, but no device/car yet exists. A complete advertising campaign can be underway before the first car is built.
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Abdulrahman Aljabri

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Hard to believe it is CG
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2010, 01:49:05 pm »

Quote from: carstenw
I work in the CG industry, coding a renderer, and this kind of ability has been around for years. Mostly, there is no threat to photography from this kind of production, since it takes months to put something like this together, much more time than simply lighting and shooting a situation.

The only area where CG is making real inroads, to my knowledge, is, as mentioned above, when the CAD data are ready, but no device/car yet exists. A complete advertising campaign can be underway before the first car is built.

briefly, how is it done?
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Carsten W

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« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2010, 02:13:39 pm »

Quote from:  Abdulrahman Aljabri
briefly, how is it done?

How is what done? The whole thing?

1) Modeling of all the parts in the scene. Some parts can be done with particle systems, some can be generated on the fly, like leaves on trees, but well over 90% of what was in the movie had to be modeled per hand. Some of the more detailed things would have taken significant time and research, including measuring the (mostly, if not all, real) buildings, and so on.

2) Texturing and shading. Capturing the right textures by going out with a camera. Some can be generated, or re-used, like the concrete textures. For realism, most textures will need to be real captures, or perhaps painted by hand, such as the brassing on the cameras in the movie. This also includes capturing the movies of the sky, for later comping in. Given the visual richness in this short, I doubt that many off-the-shelf shaders were used. Probably almost everything was textured.

3) Lighting. We are not only talking realistic light, but also creative light. This could also have taken real time, although some of the outdoor lighting could be done with a "sun and sky" shader, which takes the time of day, location on earth, and given weather, into account, but to enhance or draw attention to certain items, much will need to be done manually, and experimentally, with many revisions until the result is perfect. Since test renders are necessary, this is also a place where the equipment can slow you down.

4) Cinematic planning. Camera paths, angles, lenses, effects, and so on. Flare was present in many shots, and this has to be planned in combination with this stage. Some can be automatic, but since it is mostly present for creative effect, much has to be done manually.

5) Rendering. A computer sits and generates the images from the data on hand. This can take months by itself. I believe that V-Ray was used, which does help with some of the tasks listed, as it is somewhat automatic compared to other systems, and efficient with rendering.

Of course, a real production is much more chaotic than this, and there will be more than a trivial amount of system administration, futzing with licenses, getting networks tuned for speed, setting up render queues, and on and on. Normally a sequence like this would be the result of tens of people. That one person did almost all of it is pretty incredible, and he must have been working on this for many months, maybe longer if it was not full-time.

Note that I did not schedule the creative time, just the technical time. Someone has to have thought through all of this... FWIW I thought that this was one of the weakest parts of the production. While the richness and stunning vistas were there, there was a much weaker sense of "why?".

If someone wants to know more about all of this, the creator of the movie probably hangs out on some forum, and is answering questions in this very moment, perhaps cgsociety.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2010, 02:16:36 pm by carstenw »
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aaron

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« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2010, 03:19:29 pm »

Quote from: John-S
The worst part, I see wedding photographers possibly being part of the immune crowd with where technology is going.

Interesting way to insult about half the members on this board  

Care to elaborate on why that's "the worst part"?
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JeffKohn

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Hard to believe it is CG
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2010, 03:39:46 pm »

Technically impressive, but am I the only one who finds repeated and totally gratuitous focus-pulls and shallow DOW  to be gimmicky and tiresome after the first 10 times?
« Last Edit: January 12, 2010, 03:40:07 pm by JeffKohn »
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DArmand

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Hard to believe it is CG
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2010, 03:43:23 pm »

Quote from: John-S
Nothing about it was captured. All done in the virtual sense. (Except the skies I think were from video and used as a background plate)

This video shows more about what was and wasn't CGI - looks like the photographer is captured - as well as certain items like the flying white pigeons.

 Like I said earlier it is a brilliant piece but it looks like the guy is excellent in many fields - compositing being one of them
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AndrewDyer

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Hard to believe it is CG
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2010, 03:45:52 pm »

Hi Carstenw.
Thanks for explaining to the forum some of the processes in creating this kind of video.
I also work with CG in 3D and 2D, so I can agree with what you have said.
People need not fear that this kind of work will take away photographers jobs... it would cost a ridiculous amount of money
in man-hours  - I am sure it would be much cheaper to get a building photographed than modelled, textured and rendered like this.
The talented person who made this video I believe took a year off to make!... which I can truly believe possible.
Where CG comes in handy and would be preferable to photography is in animation and impossible camera moves/positions.

So keep your cameras guys!
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Ben Rubinstein

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Hard to believe it is CG
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2010, 04:20:19 pm »

In 10-20 years though the story might be quite different. Not so sure if it means much to many of the grizzled and seasoned shooters here but for the up and coming shooters or even 30 year olds like myself, we'll certainly see it become mainstream, quick and easy within our working lifetimes. Something to consider...
« Last Edit: January 12, 2010, 04:24:34 pm by Ben Rubinstein »
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Carsten W

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« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2010, 05:42:34 pm »

Quote from: John-S
So watch this:

15 minutes of video from sped up motion screen grab to show how he created the library in another piece. Didn't seem to take a year or a month, maybe a day.

What some people don't consider is that he can create views and get angles and do this in motion with pulled focus and a whole host of other real world techniques that require huge ass motion controlled cranes, large crews and big budgets. Some scenes I would say actually are not possible or feasible in real life.

Right, there are techniques which can help to quickly model existing buildings. For this particular shot, he went to Google Maps, grabbed a SketchUp model, imported it into 3D Studio MAX, refined some details, copied and pasted a bit to get the empty bookshelves, grabbed some existing textures, layered them in Photoshop, added some ambient occlusion, and refined the look of the whole thing. The movie is sped up, however, and keep in mind that he is only showing the successful part of the process, not all the planning, thinking, failed searches, re-thinking, and so on. The process which he shows in 15 minutes could easily have taken a week, depending on what level of fidelity he eventually wanted, and how many failed ideas he had on the way. It is like showing the 5 minutes of a day-long photo shoot which netted the best shot, without showing everything else that built up to that point. Also keep in mind that if he had been able to do the whole movie at the pace shown in the video, it would have taken him less than a week, but in fact it took a year... Finally, the movie shows only the setting up of the building. There is no knowing how long he took to do the camera motion, falling paper, and so on, which were needed to complete the shot.

And that is only for a building which happens to already exist as a relatively detailed model. That is going to be the case for more famous buildings in certain countries, but not for the new subdivision someone might have to photograph. In other words, this relatively easy path is only available for a few select people. The rest of us have to do much more work to get the same result in a different place.

Another aspect to keep in mind is that he is not going for absolute realism, but rather for a convincing alternate reality with some neat tweaks to make it pop more. Some photo jobs would call for absolute realism, and he would have his work cut out to match that.

By the way, the second half of the movie or so show him setting up a bunch of lighting tweaks for a single shot! He has to repeat much of this work for every shot, so although the modeling work is amortized over big chunks of the movie, a lot of the work is not.

The other thing is cost. To do this he had to take a year off and work on this full-time, probably the kinds of hours that studio-based pros in big cities are used to, i.e. 60-80 hours weeks, if not more (and he sat on his ass in front of a computer the whole time!). The machine(s) necessary and the software involved are not cheap. For a full setup (and I doubt he had everything registered he is using...), this would not be much cheaper than a full MF digital setup including studio lights and so on. This means that going the CG route isn't necessarily going to cost the customer any less...

His shots also show only static objects, and leaves, as well as a few falling papers. Making a realistic CG shot of a human can take weeks or months, where with a camera, you could do it in 1 hour.

On the other hand, he can do things which cannot be done with physical equipment in the real world. He can move the camera places which would cost thousands to do with a real camera, at the click of a mouse. He can change the light however he wants without regards to realism. He can speed up and slow down shots without needing special cameras. And so on. So there are benefits for CG too.

---

In the end, some of the things he had to do could be sped up with better software and faster machines, as well as access to large texture and model libraries, but a lot of what he had to do cannot be sped up, and just like in the photography segment, a good director and cinematographer cannot be replaced.

There will always be a need for both. The balance might shift slightly, and companies like RED will have some effect here, but there are many things which are just done better/cheaper/faster/more easily via photography than with CG, just as the opposite is also the case. Take care not to be a specialist in a segment which can easily be replaced with CG though

As for this particular guy, Alex Roman, nothing I have written should denigrate his work in any way: he is obviously extremely talented, hard-working and his vision is top-notch. I am guessing that this movie has guaranteed him a career at the top of his field for the rest of his life. This kind of talent is as hard to find in CG as it is in photography.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2010, 05:47:34 pm by carstenw »
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AndrewDyer

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Hard to believe it is CG
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2010, 05:52:15 pm »

Thanks again Carstenw...
I was about to to try and reply to John-S a bit, but I think you have done it much better than I could.
Yes the 'making of' video only shows a fraction of the work involved... and the talent needed that very few have.
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