Another 86:01 error code

[degrub]

Since the SADT has shown specific errors, i would focus on that and what the manual states to do about the error. If the high friction error occurs elsewhere, that could suggest an issue with the carriage assembly or the scan axis motor perhaps.
clean and lubricate the rails particularly where the error occurs as a start. Is there any roughness or stickiness in that area ?
Were there any stiff areas on the belt before it was installed and tensioned ?
Any change in the sound of the scan axis motor or the carriage when it reaches the area ?

What is the "belt assembly" ? just the belt or belt + tensioner, or ?

High friction may be sensed by motor torque or possibly indirectly by current draw and/or  motor temperature.

An excerpt from that section of the support manual -

In simple terms, ANY restriction or obstruction preventing the carriage from freely moving will cause the printer to stop working and show any of these errors.
The best and easier way to diagnose the problem is to locate the spot where the carriage stops when the printer shows the error (in case of no real paper jam). Most likely the main possible cause of the issue will be there.
If service onsite is needed, a proper diagnosis of the failing component is indispensable. Even if one component looks like the obvious cause of the problem, it is important to check other Scan Axis components.
Check the following picture to better identify the main Scan Axis components:
In case no visible obstructions are found in the Scan Axis area, here there are some of the most common causes of these errors.
Possible hardware causes:

    Carriage: With the printer unplugged and no paper loaded, MANUALLY move it from side to side, check for general obstructions. It must move freely across the entire Scan Axis area. If the carriage is locked by the Service Station (right hand side) it will not be possible to manually take the carriage out. If so, the recommendation is to restart the printer, wait for the carriage to come out and then unplug the printer. The Carriage Cover MUST be properly closed (blue latch must engage the metal piece in front of the carriage). If required, for ideal troubleshooting, it is recommended to remove all printheads (PHs) from the carriage to look for pieces of paper under the PHs. Also, check if they are delaminated  (thin plastic strip at the bottom) as this may make them crash with the paper. Keep them out during the rest of the diagnosis.
    Cutter: For printers with the cutter NOT attached to the carriage (T610/T1100/T620/T1120/Z2100/Z3100/Z3200/Z5200), make sure it is completely toward the left hand side of the printer (when facing it). No pieces of paper must be obstructing its movement. It must engage and disengage correctly and it should freely move (with no friction) through its rail. For printers with the cutter attached to the carriage (T770/T1200/T790/T1300/T2300/Z5400), make sure that it slides freely when the carriage is manually moved from side to side. It must be deactivated (up position) and no pieces of paper must be obstructing its movement. It must engage and disengage correctly. For ideal troubleshooting (if the cutter is suspected as part of the problem) it is recommended to remove it. For any printer it is a Customer Self Replaceable part.
    Belt: if it is loose, worn-out, shredded or broken, the Scan Axis Motor will not be able to grab it and move it. In some cases, the part of the belt being worn-out (missing teeth) or shredded will “slip” when it is grabbed by the motor. Noises are common when this happens. Because of this, it is important to closely check the entire belt, inch by inch. If it starts missing teeth, they will get either all over the Scan Axis or on top of the printouts. Also, check (if possible) the Belt Tensioner (left end of the belt when facing the printer), it may be broken or out of place. Depending on the printer series, the tensioner may not be included with the belt.
    Carriage rod: It must be properly oiled. The carriage must slide freely through it, if not; clean and oil the rod using synthetic oil.
    Encoder strip: It must not be scratched, bent or damaged. If dirty, proceed to clean it using a non-abrasive liquid and a lint-free cloth. Hold the cloth in an inverted “U” shape around the Encoder Strip. Wipe until no ink residue appears on the cloth.
    Service station: Pieces or paper may have fallen in it. Check for obstruction, especially if the carriage stops on it when it shows the System Error. If so, it is important to also remove all PHs.
    Starwheel assembly: If there are pieces of paper under it, it will not be able to move up and down correctly. If it remains only in the up position, the carriage may touch it when it moves from side to side. When the lever on the left is up, paper must be able to manually pass under the Starwheel Assembly and through the complete Paper Axis area (from the back to the front) with no problems.
    Trailing Cable/Ink tubes: The Ink Tubes must freely move and follow the movement of the carriage. They must also slide freely through the Tube Rail. The Trailing Cable must freely move and follow the movement of the carriage and tubes. On the T610/T1100/T620/T1120/Z2100/Z3100/Z3200/Z5200 the Trailing Cable is located separate from the Ink Tubes. On the T770/T1200/T790/T1300/T2300/Z5400 the Trailing Cable is attached to the Ink Tubes.
    Scan Axis Motor: Check if it is able to move the carriage while initializing (if the error is continuous), if so the motor is OK. Scan Axis Motor issues can be easily mistaken with encoder reading issues (Carriage Encoder Sensor is not able to read the Encoder Strip). If the motor is not apparently moving it is a good idea to restart the printer with the Window Sensor is blocked and check if the carriage moves at least a couple of millimeters (pay close attention). If it moves then most likely the motor is not the problem. In this case the issue has to do with encoder reading; service will be needed.

        note: If any issue persists, it will be necessary to run some internal tests. For more information about this or if any further assistance is needed, contact HP Technical

[Rob C]

Ugh that sucks  Was hoping it was just something simple with the belt so it would be an easy fix.

The scratch is in the service area? So maybe it's messing up the carriage knowing where the "start" position is. I guess that would explain the scan axis fail 87:11 you got earlier.

If you're looking to replace the encoder strip anyway and have nothing to lose, then you might try to polish the scratch out. Many years ago when I used to build fine scale models I would use wet-dry sandpapers with very fine grit number to remove scratches in paint, and then use toothpaste as a polishing compound. It works very well.

You could start with the toothpaste, I suggest rubbing it back and forth along that part of strip with your finger, to see if it removes or reduces the scratch. If it doesn't seem to be having any effect, you could go to say 4000 grit wet sandpaper and try gently rubbing with that, or a lower number if needed. Once you get the scratch reduced then work way back up the sandpaper number scale and finally finish off polishing with the toothpaste.

Even if you buy a new strip anyway it might preserve a spare for you.

Edit: if you have a Dremel tool you could use that to assist with polishing etc, just be very careful of the speed and grit rating of whatever you use.

Toothpaste!

Many years ago I had a fascination with perspex. To polish little things I made, such as a small skull badge for my first little car, I would use Brasso, a polish for cleaning up metal ornaments. That worked well.


More directly on topic: how happy I am that I no longer need to print!

[sharadn]

I thank everyone for their comprehensive suggestions. I have gone through all the step above and found nothing. The belt is a new LPS belt and the tensioner is fine. I just ran a carriage test and it all passes except the step where the carriage is supposed to "home" on the service station. It then fails and I get a 79:04 error. It seems to have something to do with the NvmLinesensor. I cannot find such a part in the manual. There is of course the line sensor and when tested it seems to pass with all the colors. But the carriage will just not find "home" If I would know what the printer uses to determine this it might help me to diagnose the problem. I did run a senor test and electronic modules test and they all pass. I am considering to have an HP tech come and check it out but I am thinking that this will be big bucks and I could replace a lot of parts for that would cost.
Carriage test update: The manual calls for carriage Rev to between 0.823 and 1.005; mine is reading PCA Rev 2.319. The manual calls for the carriage voltage to be between 43.6 and 46.3.; mine is reading 32.135; The manual calls for the carriage aux voltage to be 5.729 and mine is 5.700; the pens voltage is OK at 29.103. Do you think that I have the wrong carriage PCA installed? I found some online posts with the same readings as I have so it seems not be the problem

[degrub]

i did a search online for the NVMLinesensor and the model of printer. i came across this service manual -

https://manualmachine.com/hp/designjetz2100/195610-service-manual/#250

It seems to apply to the family of designjet printers including the Z3200 model. i don't know if the revision date applies specifically to your printer.
The error code you noted comes up listed as a firmware error and suggests loading the latest firmware as a start. i don't know. Maybe you can download and reload the current version in the printer as a start ? If the system won't boot into service mode to allow that, then i have no idea how to proceed.

NVM may stand for Non Volatile Memory. i did not see it defined in the manual. This would be an EEPROM chip or flash memory that contains low level program to run the machine and is loaded into memory at start.
 
i don't know about the  low voltages that were measured, but they might be from a poor power cable connection to the carriage  or failing component or failing power supply perhaps.

Page 3-2 in Diagnostic Tests (maybe this is what you have been using ?) shows how to get into the diagnostics so that a tech can test all the components.  Maybe go section by section and run the tests ? maybe that is what you have done. There is a power supply test in the list under electronics test - power supply page 3-22.
Maybe another conversation with your LPS friend would be in order.

[sharadn]

Yes I have been running the tests in diagnostic mode: hold the OK and UP key while turning on the machine with the power key on the front display panel. The problem with updating the firmware is that I can't do it unless the machine initializes and it doesn't boot that far. The carriage is always stopping at the service station on boot up and when trying to "home" itself and then throws the 86:01. I have the service manual on my laptop and am using that for reference.

[Kyle D Jackson]

I don't recall you mentioning a 79:04 error before. That's a generic firmware error, nothing to do with the line sensor. My Z3100 throws them occasionally and I just reboot it. To me it's like any random PC/app crash/lockup, stuff happens. Are you getting this error all the time now? So no longer getting the 42 and 86 errors?

Silly Q, did you try replacing the CMOS battery on the main board with a fresh one?

Don't worry about those "voltages" (some of them aren't power voltages). I mentioned earlier that the service manual has several out-of-date errors / typos in it, and they include the numbers you posted. (Also some of the service tests simply aren't very useful and will "fail" even with perfectly good hardware... When I revived my Z3200 they were extra frustrating -- all it needed was some new heads and ink carts.)

If it were me I'd skip the HP service call. These are salvage printers we're getting for almost nothing, and they're end-lifed by HP. If I can't get one working myself with some affordable parts replacements then it's not worth it to me.

HP axed the engineering division behind these printers years ago. Sure they may have a few techs that might still have some corporate knowledge/experience that isn't in the service manuals, but I'd say that's slim. You'd probably be better off with a local service dealer that actually worked on them regularly (kinda like LPS). But they might literally run the same service checks as you and suggest replacing the same parts the manual mentions..., they're not going to piddle around with it for hours trying different experiments (unless paid). You could put the money into parts (or another printer).

In that vein it might be worth trying LPS' suggestion to lower the service module out of the way to see if it makes a difference. I think someone mentioned it's just 2 screws to lower it if you leave all the cables connected? The service manual seems to confirm that (step 10 of the removal procedure).

[sharadn]

I wasn't planning on contacting HP directly but there is a company in Zurich that services the Z3200s. Probably pretty pricey though. I am not sure that at this point they would know more than me. I still get the 86:01 error on initialization always and I get the 87:11 when doing the scan axis calibration. I get the 79:04 code when doing carriage diagnostics. When I run a carriage test and it all passes everything except the step where the carriage is supposed to "home" on the service station. It then fails and I get a 79:04 error. It seems to have something to do with the NvmLinesensor. I cannot find such a part in the manual. There is of course the line sensor and when tested it seems to pass with all the colors. But the carriage will just not find "home". It never gets to being capped except when I run the service station test and some other tests like the PRS and star wheel lifter test. If I would know what the printer uses to determine this it might help me to diagnose the problem.  Replacing the CMOS battery is a good idea. I just did that and am still getting the 86:01 code. It seem that aside from the clogged heads which I have yet to work on all the other component test out OK including the electronics test except for the scan axis and the carriage test. As far as dropping the service station I could probably do this but I would a right angle allen wrench which I do not have at the moment but should get. I might trying giving the carriage rail a very good cleaning again and see if that makes a difference.  As always I appreciate the input!

[sharadn]

This is what the service manual calls for the 87:11 code

2-24 Designjet Z Series — Service Manual
System Error:
87:YZ
Problem Description:
Problem finding the Scan-axis encoder reading.
Corrective Action:
Try the following:
􀂄Upgrade the firmware.[Sharadn: I cannot do this until the printer will initialize]
􀂄Clean the Encoder Strip.
􀂄Replace the Encoder Strip ⇒ Page 6-91.[Sharadn:I have replaced the encoder strip]
􀂄Replace the Carriage PCA ⇒ Page 6-138. [Sharadn: have not done-maybe a solution]
􀂄Replace the Trailing Cables ⇒ Page 6-92. [Sharadn: have not done-maybe a solution]

This is for the 86:11 code
System Error:
86:01
Problem Description:
Problem moving the carriage, most likely due to a paper jam.
Corrective Action:
Try the following:
􀂄Switch the Power OFF from the back of the Printer and disconnect the Power cord. Reconnect the power cord and power On the Printer.
􀂄Open the Window and check for any visible obstacles restricting the movement of the carriage. If there is a wrinkled mass of media inside the paper path, lift the Pinch wheels (using the Media Lever) and clear the obstruction.
􀂄If there is no paper jam or obstacle blocking the carriage movement perform the following:
– Clean the encoder strip.[Sharadn:I have replaced the encoder strip]
– Check the belt assembly.[Sharadn:I have replaced the drive belt]
– All cables and connections between the Carriag PCA, Scan Axis Motor, and Main PCA.[Sharadn:I did not check the trailing cable at the carriage but all else seems to be OK]
– Oil the carriage rails.[Sharadn:cleaned and oiled]
􀂄Perform the Scan Axis Diagnostic Test ⇒ Page 3-6. [Sharadn: Fails with the 87:11 code- Scan Axis Length too short]
􀂄If the diagnostic test does not find any specific error, replace the Carriage Assembly ⇒ Page 6-100.[Sharadn: have not done-maybe a solution]
􀂄Replace the Belt Assembly ⇒ Page 6-115.[Sharadn: Done]
􀂄Replace the Scan Axis Motor ⇒ Page 6-116.[Sharadn:I could do this but I don't think it is the problem]
􀂄Replace the Main PCA ⇒ Page 6-161 [Sharadn: have not done-maybe a solution]

I think that the scan axis motor is OK. The problem may be located in the carriage or trailing cables. If you were going to replace parts would you replace the carriage PCA, the trailing cables and the main PCA? I don't know what else to do at this point besides start to replace parts. Let me know what you think

BTW: I watched the carriage ride over the service station carefully and did not see any interference.

[Kyle D Jackson]

It might not need actual physical interference with the service station for the carriage to stop if it's based on a proximity sensing of some kind.

So if I understand correctly, you're saying there are indeed test cases where the carriage successfully parks and caps on the service station? It's just not doing it during normal startup attempts? If that's the case then there's clearly no physical blockage, something is going screwy with the home-finding logic during normal ops.

I can only speculate but I have the understanding that the carriage occasionally bumps a physical stop on the right side to gauge the extreme travel limit. Whether it uses that as the actual home position or a slight encoder offset from it (to prevent repeatedly pounding the stop) I don't know.

It's also my understanding that it senses the edge of the paper, I can't recall if it's the line sensor. It might look for other things too such as the area where the droplet detector checks the nozzles, or the position of the service station.

Why do you think the 79:04 firmware error is related to the line sensor? Does it mention it on the screen?

You're probably already doing this but I would definitely be testing with all heads removed (and probably ink cartridges for that matter). Sometimes a head gets fried and I think I've seen mention that it sometimes causes bizarre errors from the carriage. Testing with everything removed would be similar to an out-of-the-box pre-initialization startup.

I think the most vulnerable part would be the trailing cable, so if I was grasping at straws for something to inspect/replace I think that would be my first choice. If it was the carriage board or main board tho I dunno if I'd do it. Would depend on cost and whether I could find simply find another working printer.

In any case I can't see how adding new parts could make it any worse (assuming they're the correct ones/versions). A new carriage assembly would also include a new trailing cable and line senor so it covers a few possible culprits.

[sharadn]

"It's also my understanding that it senses the edge of the paper, I can't recall if it's the line sensor. It might look for other things too such as the area where the droplet detector checks the nozzles, or the position of the service station."


There is a drop sensor on the left hand side of the service station. It might a Halls type of sensor. it could be bad I guess

"Why do you think the 79:04 firmware error is related to the line sensor? Does it mention it on the screen?"

I get the 70:04 code when doing the carriage test. It always throws this code just before the carriage should be capped. It lists something like the Nvmlinesensor. I will run this test again to double check.

"I think the most vulnerable part would be the trailing cable, so if I was grasping at straws for something to inspect/replace I think that would be my first choice. If it was the carriage board or main board tho I dunno if I'd do it. Would depend on cost and whether I could find simply find another working printer."

See my shopping cart of parts from a vendor in China. All in all seems reasonable and I wonder if it would good to secure these parts while they are available: This Ebay seller seems to have a of HPZ3200 parts: https://www.ebay.com/str/pojan?_trksid=p4429486.m3561.l161211

[Kyle D Jackson]

Sorry no that's not what I meant about the droplet sensor. It wouldn't have anything to do with that. I was only trying to explain that the printer positions the carriage over a number of stations (such as the service station, the droplet detector, the spittoons, etc) and it uses the Carriage Encoder sensor reading from the Encoder Strip to find all these positions. (I simply wasn't sure if it might also use the separate Line Sensor to find some of those positions, but based on the info I've been able to find it only uses the Line Sensor to detect the paper edge, and also to detect patterns on certain alignment/calibration prints.)

The carriage has a Carriage Encoder Sensor but it's not listed/shown in the service manual. The manual simply says replace the entire carriage assembly. If you search online however you can find DesignJet Carriage Encoder Sensors available separately. The problem is determining the correct part number because it's not in the service manual. You could always simply look for the part number stamped on your actual sensor. Anyhow here is a completely random googled link to one of these sensors, no idea whether it's the correct one, or whether it has anything to do with your issues. You can see others listed there too: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007960585095.html

Personally I still can't see any reason to replace PCA boards yet. Everything seems to be working, the carriage can move, it can find its position (encoder works), the service station works, etc. The only problem is it's not moving into the capping station, whether it's physically impeded or a control fault I don't know. But I think I would spend more time checking that it's put together correctly / not bent or worn before trying random new electronics parts in it. Especially since the printer must have been working ok before it shredded the belt.

There's the rear carriage bushing and the oiler for it that it needs to clear without blocking; there's the PRS Wedge that sets the carriage at different heights above the paper; there's the felt-like bushings that ride on the carriage rail; the starwheel assembly that raises/lowers into different positions under the carriage; the paper cutter; the service station itself; the printheads... Any of these things might possibly be fouling the carriage movement.

If all that passes visual inspection then I might be tempted to try replacing the Carriage Encoder Sensor, then possibly the Carriage PCA Board. If price was better I'd just get the entire Carriage Assembly so it comes with everything (trailing cable, sensors, etc).

I can't see any reason to replace the mainboard at all.

But I'd also compare with other printers that are already working because I've seen people basically giving these things away, often with some heads/ink/media supplies as well.

[sharadn]

As far as I can tell the encoder sensor is good. I tested with both the oiler and the PRS wedge removed and there is no change. I am still always getting the scan axis length too short 87:11. I have been over this thing multiple times and I am not seeing any physical problems. Maybe I am missing something but whatever it is it is not obvious.
I tested the start wheels and they test OK. The carriage will cap during this test.
There are not a lot of these printers kicking around here in Zurich area. I looked for quite some time and finally found this one, which seemed to be repairable. I could buy a refurbished and working one from Germany for 2K Francs but there are transportation and duty issues to deal with. It seems that I should be able to get this one running but I am somewhat stumped at this point. I did find a new carriage on Ebay from China with all the parts and the trailing cable. I am considering to buy this but there are issues with Paypal and international address which I would need to sort out. Carriage assembly: https://www.ebay.com/itm/186765854174
 
Code 87:11 calls to Replace the Carriage PCA and the trailing cables in addition to updating the firmware which I cannot do.
Code 86:01 calls to replace the Carriage assembly, the scan axis motor and the main PCA. I just don't think that the problem is the motor.

At least for now unless I get really desperate I am committed to getting this printer up and running. Between buying it, transporting it from Zurich and the parts that I bought from LPS I already have invested a fair amount.
As always I appreciate your willingness to hang in there with me while I go through this process.

[Kyle D Jackson]

Maybe a replacement carriage assembly is not a bad idea then. I mean new parts can't make it any worse lol    Especially if you've exhausted all the other checks and not finding any culprits.

That link has a great selection of parts, including some sub-parts that were usually not available separately (like the encoder strip sensor).

They also have belt tensioner and spare rear bushings for decent prices.

[sharadn]

I placed the order for that carriage. There were cheaper used ones but they would have arrived after I leave to go back to the US. Also since this one was new I thought it better than taking a chance on a used one. This should eliminate everything related to the carriage.

[sharadn]

I am thinking that when I install the new carriage I should be careful when installing the print heads. I have the print head recovery kit from LPS and will watch the video. I have no idea of the condition of the print heads that came with the printer. I am also wondering if a bad or burnt out print head could have damaged the carriage somehow. I don't want to ruin my new carriage.

[Kyle D Jackson]

I am thinking that when I install the new carriage I should be careful when installing the print heads. I have the print head recovery kit from LPS and will watch the video. I have no idea of the condition of the print heads that came with the printer. I am also wondering if a bad or burnt out print head could have damaged the carriage somehow. I don't want to ruin my new carriage.

Not worth worrying about IMHO, carriage not homing is unrelated to heads.  You'll know as soon as the new carriage is installed (without heads) whether it's solved the problem.

As far as heads go, weighing them tells if they need to have air purged and be re-primed with ink. 60 g is full, anything more than a few grams under that should be purged and primed.

If the printer boots up with the new carriage you can see any printhead error codes in the printer menu and look them up in the service manual to see what they mean. I posted some details for that here last year.

[sharadn]

I replaced the carriage. Still have the 86:01 code on startup and the 87:11 code when calibrating the scan axis.
The only thing I did not and cannot do is update the firmware. See the notes from the manual. Without the printer booting up I cannot get to the firmware. I guess that there must be some kind of workaround? Replace the main PCA, formatter?
System Error:
87:YZ
Problem Description:
Problem finding the Scan-axis encoder reading.
Corrective Action:
Try the following:
􀂄Upgrade the firmware.
􀂄Clean the Encoder Strip.
􀂄Replace the Encoder Strip ⇒ Page 6-91.
􀂄Replace the Carriage PCA ⇒ Page 6-138.
􀂄Replace the Trailing Cables ⇒ Page 6-92.