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Author Topic: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine  (Read 268848 times)

Chris Calohan

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1660 on: September 01, 2021, 11:32:40 pm »

I got my booster shot today...I trust science over horse dewormer....or bleach. Living in Florida makes one a bit on the cynical side.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1661 on: September 06, 2021, 08:33:49 am »

Not a bad summary article about the current state of things, https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/09/06/why-we-cant-turn-the-corner-on-covid-509349.

I like the "cover" photo, some intriguing signs in the background (Dungeon Bar?).
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Eric Myrvaagnes

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1662 on: September 06, 2021, 12:13:49 pm »

I got my first two Pfizer shots last January and February, and I got a booster at a local Walgreens about a week ago.
Then a few days later I got an email from Walgreens inviting me to come in for my "second" shot.

I have decided to take a pass on that for now, as I'm hoping three is enough.   ;) 
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LesPalenik

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1663 on: September 06, 2021, 01:41:03 pm »

Three shots should be enough for this year.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1664 on: September 07, 2021, 01:35:27 pm »

This happened a week ago but I missed it at the time, https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/570221-georgia-anti-vaxxers-shut-down-mobile-vaccine-event.

This is pretty bizarre behaviour, I find. If you don't want to have the vaccine, well ok, that's your decision. But why would you think that you have the right to interfere with others getting vaccinated? It's odd how some people think that individual right to choose only applies to themselves but not others. At best, they seem to be confused.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1665 on: September 07, 2021, 04:06:11 pm »

This happened a week ago but I missed it at the time, https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/570221-georgia-anti-vaxxers-shut-down-mobile-vaccine-event.

This is pretty bizarre behaviour, I find. If you don't want to have the vaccine, well ok, that's your decision. But why would you think that you have the right to interfere with others getting vaccinated? It's odd how some people think that individual right to choose only applies to themselves but not others. At best, they seem to be confused.
Apparently in your Canada, the anti-Vaxers might be more dangerous.  You really need to clean up your own house before pointing fingers at others.

Canada: anti-vaxxers hit Justin Trudeau with a handful of gravel
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/07/canada-anti-vaxxers-hit-justin-trudeau-with-a-handful-of-gravel

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1666 on: September 07, 2021, 04:14:16 pm »

Apparently in your Canada, the anti-Vaxers might be more dangerous.  You really need to clean up your own house before pointing fingers at others.
...

I don't understand this kind of comment. Reminds me of ten year olds in a school yard. Did I ever say that there weren't morons in Canada? (In fact I have included some examples in the past, in case you think that we're obligated to provide "equal time".)

And why "should I have to clean up my own house" before making a comment I feel like making? I'm not under any obligation to you to clean anything up. I really don't understand what you're trying to say.

Anyway, how is throwing gravel at a politician MORE dangerous than preventing people from getting vaccinations?
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1667 on: September 07, 2021, 04:27:34 pm »

I don't understand this kind of comment. Reminds me of ten year olds in a school yard. Did I ever say that there weren't morons in Canada? (In fact I have included some examples in the past, in case you think that we're obligated to provide "equal time".)

And why "should I have to clean up my own house" before making a comment I feel like making? I'm not under any obligation to you to clean anything up. I really don't understand what you're trying to say.

Anyway, how is throwing gravel at a politician MORE dangerous than preventing people from getting vaccinations?
Robert.  I like you.  I consider Canadians friends.  But you're always going out of your way to knock America and find the few oddballs who make us look bad.  It would be nice if you would say something pleasant about us.  Were not all ogres you know.

TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1668 on: September 07, 2021, 04:43:50 pm »

Rather than get on a roller coaster manipulated by someone best ignored, I'd rather focus on life and death issues at the moment. There comes a point where dimwits become dangerous to everyone's safety and health—as is the case in Idaho right now.

 As of today, Idaho has activated crisis level care standards for several hospitals in Northern Idaho. What that means is hospitals are authorized to triage patients and ration care based on likelihood of survival. Here's a video explaining what that means which is under two minutes long and this is the chart seen in the video. Here's a news report on the current hospital crisis there.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1669 on: September 07, 2021, 04:58:36 pm »

Robert.  I like you.  I consider Canadians friends.  But you're always going out of your way to knock America and find the few oddballs who make us look bad.  It would be nice if you would say something pleasant about us.  Were not all ogres you know.

I guess the main reason that the US gets picked on in these discussions is because although it is true that there are crazies everywhere (several in my extended family for example), the presence of a large number of nutcases in US politics is simply too target rich to pass up. I mean, how often do people get together in forums or chat rooms to say nice things about politicians? Seem almost unnatural.

When it comes to Covid, there's not much I can add that isn't already known. What happened is beyond the pale. The richest most advanced nation screwed the pooch. Four percent of the world's population but 20% of the deaths, and yet there are STILL people who think there's nothing to see, there are still people who deny Covid is real, etc. I mean, how is it possible to look on that and NOT point it out. Contradiction is always interesting, after all.

Anyway, I find forums such as this one pretty organic. Topics are raised and if people find them interesting they get discussed.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1670 on: September 07, 2021, 05:01:15 pm »

I guess the main reason that the US gets picked on in these discussions is because although it is true that there are crazies everywhere (several in my extended family for example), the presence of a large number of nutcases in US politics is simply too target rich to pass up. I mean, how often do people get together in forums or chat rooms to say nice things about politicians? Seem almost unnatural.

When it comes to Covid, there's not much I can add that isn't already known. What happened is beyond the pale. The richest most advanced nation screwed the pooch. Four percent of the world's population but 20% of the deaths, and yet there are STILL people who think there's nothing to see, there are still people who deny Covid is real, etc. I mean, how is it possible to look on that and NOT point it out. Contradiction is always interesting, after all.

Anyway, I find forums such as this one pretty organic. Topics are raised and if people find them interesting they get discussed.
Sure, fools are open to criticism. It's just that it would be nice if you aimed your arrows at more Canadian fools.  :)

TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1671 on: September 07, 2021, 05:47:25 pm »

and yet there are STILL people who think there's nothing to see, there are still people who deny Covid is real, etc. I mean, how is it possible to look on that and NOT point it out.

Among those that accept the reality of COVID-19 are people that don't accept that there is any reason for any government to attempt to control the spread. It isn't necessarily a matter of intelligence, when you have a huge ideological blind spot that prevents even recognizing that there is such a thing as Public Health.

There is my health, and there is your health. What is “public health” and what government has to do with it?

It's this kind of thinking that has been rampant among antigovernment; anti-science; anti-mask; anti-restriction activists in Idaho. That state has had a large number of loud and very active extremists challenging every measure to minimize viral spread at every level of government. I doubt that the hospital crisis they now face will have much impact on their attitude. Many would rather die, or stand by while others die, than accept the notion that public health is a legitimate concern of government—even during a pandemic.

Down with the CDC! Down with fascist lockdowns and mask mandates! Live free or die!

"Live free or die!" There are many that think that is a black & white choice with no other options. For them, there is no middle ground or compromise for living in a civil society that accepts there are some limitations; where the health, safety, and lives of others deserve consideration or even minimal accommodation by following common sense public health measures—unless done on a purely voluntary basis. Of course, viruses don't care about politics, ideology, or whether you're voluntarily working to minimize their spread or not. They will happily continue to spread; evolve into more contagious and deadly forms; hospitalize; leave permanent damage to peoples' bodies; and kill when given the chance to spread. Voluntary isn't a prerequisite, nor a term, that a virus understands or cares about.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1672 on: September 07, 2021, 06:26:57 pm »

Among those that accept the reality of COVID-19 are people that don't accept that there is any reason for any government to attempt to control the spread. It isn't necessarily a matter of intelligence, when you have a huge ideological blind spot that prevents even recognizing that there is such a thing as Public Health.

It's this kind of thinking that has been rampant among antigovernment; anti-science; anti-mask; anti-restriction activists in Idaho. That state has had a large number of loud and very active extremists challenging every measure to minimize viral spread at every level of government. I doubt that the hospital crisis they now face will have much impact on their attitude. Many would rather die, or stand by while others die, than accept the notion that public health is a legitimate concern of government—even during a pandemic.

"Live free or die!" There are many that think that is a black & white choice with no other options. For them, there is no middle ground or compromise for living in a civil society that accepts there are some limitations; where the health, safety, and lives of others deserve consideration or even minimal accommodation by following common sense public health measures—unless done on a purely voluntary basis. Of course, viruses don't care about politics, ideology, or whether you're voluntarily working to minimize their spread or not. They will happily continue to spread; evolve into more contagious and deadly forms; hospitalize; leave permanent damage to peoples' bodies; and kill when given the chance to spread. Voluntary isn't a prerequisite, nor a term, that a virus understands or cares about.
As I said a year and a half ago, the whole thing got politicized right from the beginning.  It became a Trump vs the Democrats thing especially because it was an American presidential election year..  So the mask got politicized, then Trump's vaccine got politicized (remember the Democrats said they wouldn't take any vaccine Trump had a hand in developing), Trump's Warp Speed got politicized, the CDC got politicized, and Covid itself got politicized. Politics is still at the forefront.  People are so dug into their sides, they are making irrational medical decisions based on their politics.     

TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1673 on: September 07, 2021, 08:31:41 pm »

For an accurate narrative of how the current vaccines used in the U.S. came to be produced so quickly, including the people and government institutions which made that possible, see the link below. Some day, I may get around to continuing that narrative.

https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=137509.msg1218623#msg1218623
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1674 on: September 07, 2021, 09:18:33 pm »

For an accurate narrative of how the current vaccines used in the U.S. came to be produced so quickly, including the people and government institutions which made that possible, see the link below. Some day, I may get around to continuing that narrative.

https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=137509.msg1218623#msg1218623

There are some interesting remarks about precisely that in Premonition, Michael Lewis's latest book, where some far thinking people started funding rapid vaccine development VERY early on, in the early months of 2020, long before most people became conscious of how serious things would become.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1675 on: September 07, 2021, 09:22:38 pm »

Among those that accept the reality of COVID-19 are people that don't accept that there is any reason for any government to attempt to control the spread. It isn't necessarily a matter of intelligence, when you have a huge ideological blind spot that prevents even recognizing that there is such a thing as Public Health.

It's this kind of thinking that has been rampant among antigovernment; anti-science; anti-mask; anti-restriction activists in Idaho. That state has had a large number of loud and very active extremists challenging every measure to minimize viral spread at every level of government. I doubt that the hospital crisis they now face will have much impact on their attitude. Many would rather die, or stand by while others die, than accept the notion that public health is a legitimate concern of government—even during a pandemic.

"Live free or die!" There are many that think that is a black & white choice with no other options. For them, there is no middle ground or compromise for living in a civil society that accepts there are some limitations; where the health, safety, and lives of others deserve consideration or even minimal accommodation by following common sense public health measures—unless done on a purely voluntary basis. Of course, viruses don't care about politics, ideology, or whether you're voluntarily working to minimize their spread or not. They will happily continue to spread; evolve into more contagious and deadly forms; hospitalize; leave permanent damage to peoples' bodies; and kill when given the chance to spread. Voluntary isn't a prerequisite, nor a term, that a virus understands or cares about.

Strict adherence to ideology really is rather silly. In the early 1970s on campus at McGill we'd buy copies of the Marxist-Leninist Daily for a lunch time laugh. It only cost a dime, cheap thrills. Silly slogans are just that.
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TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1676 on: September 07, 2021, 10:41:53 pm »

There are some interesting remarks about precisely that in Premonition, Michael Lewis's latest book, where some far thinking people started funding rapid vaccine development VERY early on, in the early months of 2020, long before most people became conscious of how serious things would become.

The Bush administration and CDC in 2005 established a goal for which we should all currently be grateful. That goal was set forth in the 2005 National Strategy for Pandemic Influenza. Their goal was to (page 5):

"Establish domestic production capacity and stockpiles of countermeasures to ensure:

- Sufficient vaccine to vaccinate front-line personnel and at-risk populations, including military personnel;

- Sufficient vaccine to vaccinate the entire U.S. population within six months of the emergence of a virus with pandemic potential; and

- Antiviral treatment for those who contract a pandemic strain of influenza."


The following year, BARDA was established thru bipartisan legislation to work toward those and other goals. BARDA and NIAID continued with those efforts year after year; funding research outside government; performing research inside government; and developing capabilities and capacities for what became a critical need in 2020. The BARDA Strategic Plan for 2011-2016 (page 13 - Goal 3) discusses those ongoing efforts toward the 2005 six month goal for vaccine development and capacity.

"GOAL 3

Agile, robust and sustainable U.S. manufacturing in­frastructure capable of rapidly producing vaccines and other biologics against pandemic influenza and other emerging threats

The 2005 National Strategy for Pandemic Influenza es­tablished a commitment to making vaccine available for all Americans within six months of the emergence of a virus with pandemic potential. BARDA has made significant progress towards increasing and securing domestic manufacturing capacity for pandemic influ­enza vaccine development. However, the recent re­sponse to 2009 H1N1 shows that we are still hampered by the limits of current technology. The first domestic cases of 2009 H1N1 influenza were identified in April and the pandemic peaked about six months later, in late October. Despite an intensive effort to develop a pandemic vaccine, the 2009 H1N1 vaccine arrived too late to have a significant effect on the dynamics of the fall disease wave. Influenza vaccines licensed in the U.S. use egg-based technology that is more than 50 years old and a substantial portion of the manufactur­ing capacity is based overseas.

Consistent with recommendations from the President’s Council of Advisors on Science and Technology in its August 2010 Report to the President on Re-engineering the Influenza Vaccine Production Enterprise to Meet the Challenges of Pandemic Influenza BARDA is work­ing with several partners to develop more modern plat­forms for manufacturing influenza vaccines and this investment is beginning to pay off."


The more one looks at the background and history of the current COVID vaccines, the more you realize that it was not an innovation, nor an effort, that occurred or began in 2020. The effort was years in the making and the results arrived in the nick of time. Now, if only people would behave rationally... that will take a lot more time and effort!

* Sorry about the length of the post. Consider it to be a continuation of the narrative that I began earlier on the background and history of COVID vaccines. Regardless of how it was branded and marketed during an election year, credit goes to BARDA for the speed of production and scientists supported by NIAID for the development. While the six month goal wasn't met... it was accomplished with impressive speed nonetheless. There is also credit due to scientists worldwide and not just in the U.S.

** Bold type is as it appears in the original document linked above.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2021, 11:41:11 pm by TechTalk »
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Peter McLennan

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1677 on: September 08, 2021, 12:07:12 am »

It would be nice if you would say something pleasant about us.  Were not all ogres you know.

We have. Here. Several times.

It's just that some seventy-odd million of you are apparently idiots.  It's hard to say anything pleasant about (or to) idiots. 

I'm referring to those idiots who oppose medical miracles like the covid vaccinations.  Or the idiots who term medical masks "face diapers". 

I could go on, but I won't.  It's past my bedtime.
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PeterAit

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1678 on: September 08, 2021, 09:17:57 am »

Apparently in your Canada, the anti-Vaxers might be more dangerous.  You really need to clean up your own house before pointing fingers at others.


I've never understood this kind of (non) logic. You might as well say that a smoker cannot advise others not to smoke, or that an alcoholic cannot give temperance lectures.
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LesPalenik

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1679 on: September 08, 2021, 11:02:30 am »

Apparently in your Canada, the anti-Vaxers might be more dangerous.  You really need to clean up your own house before pointing fingers at others.

There are covidiots both in US and in Canada. The undisputable fact is that US owns more of them, both in absolute and relative numbers.
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