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Author Topic: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political  (Read 497816 times)

chez

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7820 on: October 23, 2020, 03:34:37 pm »

The quantity of deaths would go up if there are more cases.  But not the necessarily the rate. It should stay at 3%.

That depends on how stretched the hospitals get. I've seen stadiums being outfitted as hospitals again...will the freezer truck morges follow?
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Craig Lamson

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7821 on: October 23, 2020, 05:24:05 pm »

That depends on how stretched the hospitals get. I've seen stadiums being outfitted as hospitals again...will the freezer truck morges follow?

cite please
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Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7822 on: October 23, 2020, 06:43:30 pm »

That depends on how stretched the hospitals get. I've seen stadiums being outfitted as hospitals again...will the freezer truck morges follow?
I think we have more ICU's in the states than Europe as well as breathers.  Maybe that's the reason our health care costs more than in Europe.

faberryman

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7823 on: October 23, 2020, 07:11:18 pm »

I think we have more ICU's in the states than Europe as well as breathers.  Maybe that's the reason our health care costs more than in Europe.

I think Trump said at the debate last night that we are selling a lot of our "breathers" to other countries, so there may not be a shortage of "breathers" in Europe. Do you know the current stats on that?

I'm think I remember reading that the government payment to the hospitals to treat a COVID patient was something like $19,000, and if the patient needed a ventilator the amount was $27,000. Something like that anyway. Do you know how much it costs to treat a COVID patient in the various countries in Europe so we can make a comparison of health care costs? Just based on my experience of staying in the hospital, and being charged an extraordinary amount for every Q-tip and band-aid, not to mention that box of Kleenex they sent home with me, I think it is probably more expensive in the US. Honest to God, the nurse came in about eleven times a day with one of those bar code readers and was shooting it at everything in sight. Not sure the use of a ventilator is the culprit.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2020, 07:32:44 pm by faberryman »
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JoeKitchen

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7824 on: October 23, 2020, 07:27:44 pm »

That depends on how stretched the hospitals get. I've seen stadiums being outfitted as hospitals again...will the freezer truck morges follow?

Fear mongering again I see. 

During the hight of the thing in NYC, many were predicting the Javis center would be filled to the gills along with the Navy hospital ship sent to the city.  It did not happen.  Maybe it came close, but it did not happen and it was all for not. 

Now, after 8 or 9 months we know how to handle this so well a 74 year old fat man was back to work in days after catching it.  We are past the hysteria; come back down to earth.  Really, it must be getting cold up there.

It is time to move on with our lives.  I know I am and having one of the best quarters ever. 
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Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7825 on: October 23, 2020, 07:57:41 pm »

Fear mongering again I see. 

During the hight of the thing in NYC, many were predicting the Javis center would be filled to the gills along with the Navy hospital ship sent to the city.  It did not happen.  Maybe it came close, but it did not happen and it was all for not. 

Now, after 8 or 9 months we know how to handle this so well a 74 year old fat man was back to work in days after catching it.  We are past the hysteria; come back down to earth.  Really, it must be getting cold up there.

It is time to move on with our lives.  I know I am and having one of the best quarters ever. 
Well, Biden's going to take it away from you with higher taxes.  :)

Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7826 on: October 23, 2020, 08:06:20 pm »

I think Trump said at the debate last night that we are selling a lot of our "breathers" to other countries, so there may not be a shortage of "breathers" in Europe. Do you know the current stats on that?

I'm think I remember reading that the government payment to the hospitals to treat a COVID patient was something like $19,000, and if the patient needed a ventilator the amount was $27,000. Something like that anyway. Do you know how much it costs to treat a COVID patient in the various countries in Europe so we can make a comparison of health care costs? Just based on my experience of staying in the hospital, and being charged an extraordinary amount for every Q-tip and band-aid, not to mention that box of Kleenex they sent home with me, I think it is probably more expensive in the US. Honest to God, the nurse came in about eleven times a day with one of those bar code readers and was shooting it at everything in sight. Not sure the use of a ventilator is the culprit.
Well, I was trying to make a point.  AFter reading an article on how some European hospitals are short beds, ICU's, and equipment, it seemed that generally, there doesn;t seem as much infrastructure in medicine as in America.  I know when it comes to MRI's for example, we have many times the number as Europe and Canada. 

This not only adds to the cost of equipment, it encourages more tests and higher medical costs as fees for tests are very expensive.  Maybe America's higher expenditures in equipment, hospitals, etc, will pay off with Covid if it decreases deaths through better medical services.  Death rates in NY and Long Island hospitals have gone down from around 27% to 3% partly due to better procedures.  I don't know if that relates to more and better equipment.  We'll have to wait until the future to see all the elements that helped.

Peter McLennan

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7827 on: October 23, 2020, 08:07:43 pm »

I think we have more ICU's in the states than Europe ...

We'd love to see some proof of that WAA, Alan. The population of Western Europe is roughly double that of the USA. 
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faberryman

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7828 on: October 23, 2020, 08:08:54 pm »

Well, Biden's going to take it away from you with higher taxes.  :)

Really? Joe must be doing pretty well. Biden said he was going to raise taxes only on people who make more than $400,000.
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Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7829 on: October 23, 2020, 08:09:11 pm »

We'd love to see some proof of that WAA, Alan. The population of Western Europe is roughly double that of the USA. 
Do the research yourself.  Let us know what you come up with.

faberryman

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7830 on: October 23, 2020, 08:10:57 pm »

Well, I was trying to make a point.  AFter reading an article on how some European hospitals are short beds, ICU's, and equipment, it seemed that generally, there doesn;t seem as much infrastructure in medicine as in America.  I know when it comes to MRI's for example, we have many times the number as Europe and Canada. 

This not only adds to the cost of equipment, it encourages more tests and higher medical costs as fees for tests are very expensive.  Maybe America's higher expenditures in equipment, hospitals, etc, will pay off with Covid if it decreases deaths through better medical services.  Death rates in NY and Long Island hospitals have gone down from around 27% to 3% partly due to better procedures.  I don't know if that relates to more and better equipment.  We'll have to wait until the future to see all the elements that helped.

Yeah, it seems like neither of us has any idea.
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Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7831 on: October 23, 2020, 08:11:45 pm »

Really? Joe must be doing pretty well. Biden said he was going to raise taxes only on people who make more than $400,000.
Well, I don't believe him. 

Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7832 on: October 23, 2020, 08:13:39 pm »

Yeah, it seems like neither of us has any idea.
Yes we do.  Articles say European hospitals are short beds and ICU units and "breathers".  That's not happening in the US to any degree I'm aware of if at all.

Peter McLennan

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7833 on: October 23, 2020, 08:25:59 pm »

Do the research yourself.  Let us know what you come up with.

I ain't doing your homework for you, Alan. It's your assertion and it's your responsibility to back it up.


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LesPalenik

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7834 on: October 23, 2020, 08:32:36 pm »

European countries vary wildly in terms of hospital beds and ICU's. Also in the stay after a surgery. For example, in Canada after a hip or knee surgery they kick you out of the hospital after 2 days, in Germany after 7-10 days.

Quote
There were 33.9 intensive care beds for every 100,000 inhabitants in Germany, with capacities being further expanded in the current crisis situation. Austria (28.9 intensive care beds per 100,000 people) and the United States (25) also had a comparatively high density. The capacities were significantly lower in the countries currently particularly hard hit by the corona pandemic, Spain with 9.7 and Italy with 8.6 intensive care beds per 100,000 inhabitants.

When it comes to the overall level of hospital beds, Germany does well internationally, as a comparison of 33 OECD member states shows. In Germany, for example, there were around 6 hospital beds for every 1,000 inhabitants in 2017. Only Japan (7.8 hospital beds per 1,000 people) and South Korea (7.1) were better equipped. Here, too, the level of equipment was significantly lower in countries currently particularly badly affected by the corona pandemic. In France there were 3.1 and in Italy 2.6 hospital beds for every 1,000 people. In the United States and Spain, the density of care was 2.4 beds per 1,000 inhabitants each. In Canada, Sweden and Chile there were only 2.0 beds for every 1,000 people.

The data above comes from the OECD report "Beyond Containment: Health systems responses to COVID-19 in the OECD".
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Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7835 on: October 23, 2020, 08:38:33 pm »

I ain't doing your homework for you, Alan. It's your assertion and it's your responsibility to back it up.



I'll let readers decide whether I'm telling the truth and stating a reasonable case. You can research to prove me wrong in the meanwhile.

faberryman

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7836 on: October 23, 2020, 09:43:35 pm »

Well, I don't believe him.

Who? I kind of lost track.
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faberryman

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7837 on: October 23, 2020, 09:46:43 pm »

I'll let readers decide whether I'm telling the truth and stating a reasonable case. You can research to prove me wrong in the meanwhile.

That seems to be your standard response when you make up a bunch of stuff, and when you are called on it, you can’t back it up.
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TechTalk

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7838 on: October 23, 2020, 10:03:25 pm »

I'll let readers decide whether I'm telling the truth and stating a reasonable case. You can research to prove me wrong in the meanwhile.

It's like having another full-time job!

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-health-care-resources-compare-countries/
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Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7839 on: October 23, 2020, 10:35:31 pm »

That seems to be your standard response when you make up a bunch of stuff, and when you are called on it, you can’t back it up.
I didn't make up a bunch of stuff.  You're playing word games.  I said "I think we have more ICU's in the states than Europe as well as breathers.  Maybe that's the reason our health care costs more than in Europe."

I gave a possible explanation for higher costs of medical care in the US. That's my opinion. I think and maybe are not statements of fact.   I also think that your photography is pretty nice, maybe.  Do I have to back it up or would you appreciate it as my opinion?
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