PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political

[James Clark]

So, are we living through an economic collapse or aren't we?

Only when it's convenient

[Robert Roaldi]

What country does the annual Asian flu come from?

The viruses are in the ecosystem, they don't come from anywhere in particular, or they come from everywhere and flare up when suitable conditions present themselves. We give them cute names, probably in much the same way we give names to hurricanes. But you must have known this.

[JoeKitchen]

Yea,what a world we live in.  It seems the virus has not taken a back seat in US journalism.   Who would have thought it would be newsreaders who made the virus "magically disappear"    

So some indications from the working world.  We are shooting in a factoy setting now and I've only seen a very few folks with face masks and social distancing.  We have been in this factory many times over the last 10 years and its business as usual.  We have very little interaction with anybody so Im not really worried but its an interesting data point.  When taken with the scenes of everyday life both her at home and in the town were we are working now, it seems the vast majority has said screw the virus, we are going back to living.   

BTW, this company has lots of orders for products that start at $175K and go up to a million.  No downturn for them.

You working yet Joe?

If it was not true, it would be funny. 

I think that anyone who is now still for the lock downs in any fashion have completely lost credibility, especially after supporting the recent violent protests.  Governor Murphy of NJ yesterday in the same exact sentence both admonished the entirely peaceful protests to reopen the economy, for helping to spread the virus, and then he praised the Floyd protests, which nearly all turned violent.  It's like he said, your first amendment rights only apply when I agree with why you're protesting. 

Like I said, he did this in the same sentence; stranger then fiction. 

After another week, when this all settles down, I dont see anyone giving a rat's ass anymore about the virus, especially if there is not a massive outbreak like everyone on the left said would happen after the conservative protests. 

I have shoots next week, but they are coming in slowly.

To pass the time, I am giving a go at home wine making along with cheese making.  Start a Pinot Noir this week and I am debating if I should add some stems along with the skins and seeds. 

[Paulo Bizarro]

If it was not true, it would be funny. 

I think that anyone who is now still for the lock downs in any fashion have completely lost credibility, especially after supporting the recent violent protests.  Governor Murphy of NJ yesterday in the same exact sentence both admonished the entirely peaceful protests to reopen the economy, for helping to spread the virus, and then he praised the Floyd protests, which nearly all turned violent.  It's like he said, your first amendment rights only apply when I agree with why you're protesting. 

Like I said, he did this in the same sentence; stranger then fiction. 

After another week, when this all settles down, I dont see anyone giving a rat's ass anymore about the virus, especially if there is not a massive outbreak like everyone on the left said would happen after the conservative protests. 

I have shoots next week, but they are coming in slowly.

To pass the time, I am giving a go at home wine making along with cheese making.  Start a Pinot Noir this week and I am debating if I should add some stems along with the skins and seeds.

105,000 dead and still counting. But I agree the madcap guy is grasping to anything that can distract from the dead toll - Chinese, sending chloroquine to his pal Bolsonaro, SpaceX (excellent event by the way), riots, Twitter, whatever helpshim in shifting the blame.

[Craig Lamson]

So, are we living through an economic collapse or aren't we?

I guess it depends on who you are and where you are at.  I have enough business right now I'm doing 7 day work weeks.

[faberryman]

I think that anyone who is now still for the lock downs in any fashion have completely lost credibility, especially after supporting the recent violent protests.

You are fighting old battles. Except for a few hotspots like NYC, LA, and a couple of counties in your home state of Pennsylvania, which are all set to open up next week, everywhere else is already open, some places for over a month, so no one is still advocating for lockdowns. I have had the freedom to catch COVID-19 in the restaurant of my choice for weeks.

After another week, when this all settles down, I dont see anyone giving a rat's ass anymore about the virus, especially if there is not a massive outbreak like everyone on the left said would happen after the conservative protests.

Of course people will be less concerned now that infections have peaked and are on their way down. Duh. The litmus test for anyone giving a "rat's ass" about the virus will be when patients in nursing homes go back to playing bingo in the common room without masks.

[Craig Lamson]

105,000 dead and still counting. But I agree the madcap guy is grasping to anything that can distract from the dead toll - Chinese, sending chloroquine to his pal Bolsonaro, SpaceX (excellent event by the way), riots, Twitter, whatever helpshim in shifting the blame.

Like it or not, china virus is old news in the USA.

[Paulo Bizarro]

Like it or not, china virus is old news in the USA.

It is not a matter of liking. But how many deaths until the USA, according to you, considers the virus to be newsworthy again?

105,000 and counting.

Personally, I like to watch trump's daily press conferences summaries, they continue to be hillarious, regardless of what the news are. His incompetence in times of crisis has been quite evident.

[faberryman]

Personally, I like to watch trump's daily press conferences summaries, they continue to be hillarious, regardless of what the news are.

I don't know why they have resurrected the daily lie-a-thon. I thought we were done with that.

[JoeKitchen]

You are fighting old battles. Except for a few hotspots like NYC, LA, and a couple of counties in your home state of Pennsylvania, which are all set to open up next week, everywhere else is already open, some places for over a month, so no one is still advocating for lockdowns. I have had the freedom to catch COVID-19 in the restaurant of my choice for weeks.

PA, NJ, NY are still fighting that ole battle.  Until we are back to allowing places to work at 100% capacity and bring back concerts/sports, this is still not over nor is the economy going to be on good footings.

CA may be opening up with 75% of business open, but they are working at 25% of their former economic activity due to restrictions on capacity and such. 

Not to mention, how could you as a governor, criticize the peaceful protest for people to get their jobs back and, in the same breath, then support the Floyd protests that brought out more crowds with less social distancing and turned violent, destroying property? 

[Craig Lamson]

It is not a matter of liking. But how many deaths until the USA, according to you, considers the virus to be newsworthy again?

105,000 and counting.

Personally, I like to watch trump's daily press conferences summaries, they continue to be hillarious, regardless of what the news are. His incompetence in times of crisis has been quite evident.

In my opinon its never going to be newsworthy.  Its done.  The media will need something else to try and panic hte masses.

BTW, Whats the death count for the EU?  I think you will find in the end it will be the incompetence of many of the Govenors that will be what matters, given they are in charge of their china virus problems and now the riots.  Its going to be an interesting election.

[BernardLanguillier]

The level of your self-righteousness and self-adoration is stratospheric, Bernard! 

Good one...

Since when is the intent to be factual, logical and common sense based self-righteousness and self-adoratory?

How do you form an opinion? My understanding (which I thought was as universal as anything gets)
1. You collect facts by reading and listening to several information sources
2. You position these facts relative to your pre-existing understanding
3. You leverage knowledge, logic and common sense (hint: not all opinions have the same value, not all apples should be cut in the middle in case of partisan disagreement - only facts and logic decide where to cut)
4. You adjust your Pre-existing understanding if the facts don’t support it
5. You revisit your perception of facts if new credible evidence is added

Nobody can call himself a free man if he doesn’t attempt to perform this exercise day in day out. You are just a slave of the box you have decided to lock yourself into for the sake of defending something. An alternate reality that you contribute to creating, that reality Jean Baudriard calls hyper-reality because it simulates reality and you manage to convince yourself it’s real.

Of course it requires to call fake all the inputs you get that are not aligned. It requires you to never question your pre-existing beliefs. What I have been calling in this thread « unconditional support ».

The only thing I am proud of is my attempt to stay free. And you call it « self-righteousness and self-adoratory »?

If you prefer an American philosopher over a French sociologist you may want to read Ken Wilber’s « Trump and a post truth world ».

Cheers,
Bernard

[Alan Klein]

First the stupid US government pays people not to work.  Then they're going to pay them to go back to work.  Maybe we should pay the looters to stop looting?

That $600 unemployment benefit is likely going away. New plan would pay Americans a ‘bonus’ to return to work
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/02/heres-what-could-replace-that-600-in-extra-unemployment-benefits.html

[PeterAit]

George Will, one of America's leading conservative columnists, calls for Trump's ouster and the ouster of many senators and representatives who have enabled him.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/02/politics/george-will-donald-trump/index.html

[LesPalenik]

George Will, one of America's leading conservative columnists, calls for Trump's ouster and the ouster of many senators and representatives who have enabled him.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/02/politics/george-will-donald-trump/index.html

Here is a paragraph from that article:

Will's view is, effectively, that the Trump version of the GOP is so corrupted, so broken, so beyond repair that the only solution is to raze it -- and start from the ground up again.
As he writes:
"The measures necessary for restoration of national equilibrium are many and will be protracted far beyond his removal. One such measure must be the removal of those in Congress who, unlike the sycophantic mediocrities who cosset him in the White House, will not disappear "magically," as Eric Trump said the coronavirus would. Voters must dispatch his congressional enablers, especially the senators who still gambol around his ankles with a canine hunger for petting."

[BobShaw]

Wikipedia says more than that - it says that the USA is another possibility, namely a study from 2018. But there is no consensus.

For sure it was not from Spain. But because Spain was neutral, it was politically correct to call it spanish flu, rather than American, British, or French.

I have heard that it was brought over by US soldiers from Kansas when they joined WW1 in 1917. Spain was neutral so their media was actually able to write about the flu.
My father who lived through it never called it the Spanish Flu, it was always the Pneumonic Flu, so perhaps the name was attached later on.

It was however very dangerous and attacked all ages. If you got it you probably died as hospitals were comparatively primitive compared to today. He had to leave his town to avoid it.

[JoeKitchen]

I have heard that it was brought over by US soldiers from Kansas when they joined WW1 in 1917. Spain was neutral so their media was actually able to write about the flu.
My father who lived through it never called it the Spanish Flu, it was always the Pneumonic Flu, so perhaps the name was attached later on.

It was however very dangerous and attacked all ages. If you got it you probably died as hospitals were comparatively primitive compared to today. He had to leave his town to avoid it.

If anyone would like to rename the Spanish Flu the  American Flu (I too believe it came from Kansas) for clarity, that would be fine by me. 

However the premise that it was lethal if you caught it is a lie.  The fatality rate was 2.5%; meaning 97.5% of those who caught it survived.  Now that is certainly high and something that would justify a lock down if a virus today had that same exact IFR given our current medical system, but not a death certificate. 

Additionally it seemed to effect everyone equally whereas with C-19 only those whom are over 65 with pre-existing conditions are mortally effected.   

[John Camp]

If anyone would like to rename the Spanish Flu the  American Flu (I too believe it came from Kansas) for clarity, that would be fine by me. 

However the premise that it was lethal if you caught it is a lie.  The fatality rate was 2.5%; meaning 97.5% of those who caught it survived.  Now that is certainly high and something that would justify a lock down if a virus today had that same exact IFR given our current medical system, but not a death certificate. 

Additionally it seemed to effect everyone equally whereas with C-19 only those whom are over 65 with pre-existing conditions are mortally effected.

Actually,  the Spanish flu disproportionately killed young adults. Among them were Egon Schiele and his wife. Also Frederick Trump, the President's grandfather.

The first stirring pot of the flu was probably Kansas, but ultimately, it came from where all bird flus come from -- China, brought by migrating waterfowl.

[JoeKitchen]

Actually,  the Spanish flu disproportionately killed young adults. Among them were Egon Schiele and his wife. Also Frederick Trump, the President's grandfather.

The first stirring pot of the flu was probably Kansas, but ultimately, it came from where all bird flus come from -- China, brought by migrating waterfowl.

So all flus are Chinese?  Not something I think you want to broadcast.   

From what read the Spanish formed in Kansas much like all novel virus, a bird/bat flu infected a pig in a Kansas farm that then infected a human.  It was then spread by the soldiers going to Europe whose commanders ignored the medical guidance (yes I know the obvious hypocritical nature of this sentence with myself) of limiting barracks  and transports. 

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Alan, you might be interested... as well as most of us