PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political

[armand]

I'm still waiting to hear how long you are for the "hope strategy," aka the "pray to God strategy," that a treatment will be developed until you approve of something else. 

No guarantee will get any kind of serious treatment.

Pants on fire alert! I called your bluffing on you not knowing what you are talking about, but yet trying to look smarter and avoid actual discussion. Crickets since then. You made a fool out of yourself and don't have the guts to admit it.

As before you are trying to displace the discussion to where you think you have the answer. I already answered this question, opening has to meet certain criteria, look for example at the White House opening criteria (those Trump ignored few hours after putting them out).
Btw, I don't pray to God, that's your job.

Yes, but a majority of the country wants to get back to work. 

Only a very small minority want to go back to business as usual.  A large minority wants to continue the lock down.  But a majority want to start opening up, which will only increase as more and more people start looking at what the actual fatality numbers are.  They are very very low for the vast majority of people. 

You're on the loosing side.

Looking at how you keep "loosing" sight of losing despite being called on multiple times, I know it's wasted breath on my part. You are happy with what you know and don't care to change anything, therefore no actual discussion happening.

[armand]

He's changed his mind:

'The Task Force will continue on indefinitely'

Yes, Trump was right to dismember it yesterday ago but Trump is right to keep it indefinitely today. The mental gymnastics his supporters have to go through every day to justify his actions makes almost feel for them. Almost.

[JoeKitchen]

Pants on fire alert! I called your bluffing on you not knowing what you are talking about, but yet trying to look smarter and avoid actual discussion. Crickets since then. You made a fool out of yourself and don't have the guts to admit it.

As before you are trying to displace the discussion to where you think you have the answer. I already answered this question, opening has to meet certain criteria, look for example at the White House opening criteria (those Trump ignored few hours after putting them out).
Btw, I don't pray to God, that's your job.

Looking at how you keep "loosing" sight of losing despite being called on multiple times, I know it's wasted breath on my part. You are happy with what you know and don't care to change anything, therefore no actual discussion happening.

Yet you keep on ignoring your very non-scientific approach of hoping for the best instead of putting in place an actual strategy. 

[JoeKitchen]

Yes, Trump was right to dismember it yesterday ago but Trump is right to keep it indefinitely today. The mental gymnastics his supporters have to go through every day makes almost feel pity for them. Almost.

Nope, it needs to be dismembered. 

Once again, it's great to see exactly how much liberals like you lack all understanding of conservatives.  This is why liberals cant meme.

[chez]

Yes, but a majority of the country wants to get back to work. 

Only a very small minority want to go back to business as usual.  A large minority wants to continue the lock down.  But a majority want to start opening up, which will only increase as more and more people start looking at what the actual fatality numbers are.  They are very very low for the vast majority of people. 

You're on the loosing side.

Sorry...but I'm not on a side and never thought this to be a game to win or lose.

One thing that will scare the hell out of people would be a huge uptick in deaths and major outbreaks. We've already seen people refuse going back to their meet processing plants because of outbreaks.

[armand]

Yet you keep on ignoring your very non-scientific approach of hoping for the best instead of putting in place an actual strategy.

First, don't forget the first part of what I said, you know the logic that you know of so much. I have a book on logic that I can recommend to get you started in case you actually don't know anywhere close to what you alluded to.


Second, you start sounding like Allen, as in your reply doesn't match what I wrote, it's as if you didn't read it. Try again, I said the White House criteria for opening are a good starting point, is that not good enough for you?

[chez]

He's changed his mind:

'The Task Force will continue on indefinitely'

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump

New day...new plan. Like a twirling top.

[JoeKitchen]

First, don't forget the first part of what I said, you know the logic that you know of so much. I have a book on logic that I can recommend to get you started in case you actually don't know anywhere close to what you alluded to.


Second, you start sounding like Allen, as in your reply doesn't match what I wrote, it's as if you didn't read it. Try again, I said the White House criteria for opening are a good starting point, is that not good enough for you?

Who's Allen? 

But it is finally nice to see you come around to the reality that an indefinite lock down is futile not a real strategy.  Now if only you and other hysterical libs saw this light a month ago maybe we would be better shape. 

Like I said to Alan, it will be ironic to see the Dems eventually criticize him for not opening up early enough, which is sure to come. 

[Paulo Bizarro]

Posting a chart without a legend is not very helpful.

Y-axis: number of cases.
X-axis: previous 7-days average of number of new cases. This gets rid of daily ups and downs and provides a btter understanding of trends.

Countries should only open up, slowly and in a phased way, when the trend is clearly going down.

[armand]

Sorry...but I'm not on a side and never thought this to be a game to win or lose.

One thing that will scare the hell out of people would be a huge uptick in deaths and major outbreaks. We've already seen people refuse going back to their meet processing plants because of outbreaks.

Yes, it's not that difficult to see.

A quick example, you have a factory with 40 employees. It needs at least 20 to be able to run.
30 will get sick, out of them 4 will end up in the the hospital, out of them 1-2 in the ICU, out of them one will die.
How many do you think will be willing to come to work knowing one died and few others are in the hospital?
Even if you cut those numbers in half people won't think, well the statistics are in my favor.

The other thing about the statistics is that they can matter not if you are on the wrong side of them. Out of the above example, let's say 1/40 will die, do you think he/she will care their chances were only 1/40?

[armand]

Who's Allen? 

But it is finally nice to see you come around to the reality that an indefinite lock down is futile not a real strategy.  Now if only you and other hysterical libs saw this light a month ago maybe we would be better shape. 

Like I said to Alan, it will be ironic to see the Dems eventually criticize him for not opening up early enough, which is sure to come.

Wrong spelling, you figured it who, you can understand things without being spoon fed.

But I've been saying this for many many pages now, you just don't read (regarding the opening). I was never against opening if it's done right, my problem is in many places it cannot be done right yet. I already said what that means or you can just look at the White House criteria.

And let me know when you come up with that logic interpretation, so far still crickets and I won't let this go until you own it.

[JoeKitchen]

Wrong spelling, you figured it who, you can understand things without being spoon fed.

But I've been saying this for many many pages now, you just don't read (regarding the opening). I was never against opening if it's done right, my problem is in many places it cannot be done right yet. I already said what that means or you can just look at the White House criteria.

And let me know when you come up with that logic interpretation, so far still crickets and I won't let this go until you own it.

By your standards, and those being put forth on testing, it can never be done.  The amount of testing being called for is impossible. 

You, and others, are trying to make it look like you are for opening up so long as certain parameters are met, but all you are suggesting are unrealistic, such as 5 million tests a day or suddenly make all American more responsible (as if we are not already).  So the net effect would be to never open up.  Essentially, you are not for a realistic strategy, or at least up until recently you were not. 

But like I said, good to see you finally realize we need to open up. 

[armand]

By your standards, and those being put forth on testing, it can never be done.  The amount of testing being called for is impossible. 

You, and others, are trying to make it look like you are for opening up so long as certain parameters are met, but all you are suggesting are unrealistic, such as 5 million tests a day or suddenly make all American more responsible (as if we are not already).  So the net effect would be to never open up.  Essentially, you are not for a realistic strategy, or at least up until recently you were not. 

But like I said, good to see you finally realize we need to open up.

Yes, it can be done. If there is will, there is a way. We have the means, just need to get our priorities straight.

good to see you finally realize we need to open up

Does it make you feel better if you say as if I finally agree with you?Because the never that I used doesn't lead to finally.


And let me know when you come up with that logic interpretation, so far still crickets and I won't let this go until you own it. I have a book on logic that I can recommend to get you started in case you actually don't know anywhere close to what you alluded to.

[JoeKitchen]

Yes, it can be done. If there is will, there is a way. We have the means, just need to get our priorities straight.

Does it make you feel better if you say as if I finally agree with you?Because the never that I used doesn't lead to finally.


And let me know when you come up with that logic interpretation, so far still crickets and I won't let this go until you own it. I have a book on logic that I can recommend to get you started in case you actually don't know anywhere close to what you alluded to.

No, it does not make me feel better.  It is just nice to know you, and other liberals, are finally coming to your senses. 

As usual, it took the liberals a little longer to get there, but I did have hope.  I even have hope that eventually D Blasio will realize releasing sex offenders was not a good idea, albeit probably after he destroys his career further. 

[JoeKitchen]

Great piece on how Cuomo owns all the nursing home deaths. 

This nursing home disaster is on you, Gov. Cuomo: Goodwin

Essentially on March 25th, the governor's office put forward a policy that any retirement home must take in a resident that tested positive for C-19.  There were no exceptions and this policy is still in place.  Cuomo is trying to act as if he did not know about this, but he is known as a micro-manager, so it is not a great defense.  On top of that, the fact that this was brought to his attention last week and he has not made any change is also not looking good. 

He is also trying to use a myriad of other excuses, including trying to blame Trump, surprise, strong arming directors to be quiet with threats. 

Cuomo, in response, has constructed an evolving litany of self-defenses, once coldly asserting it was “not our job” to help the homes get protective equipment for their staffs, even as other officials said the equipment was being provided. His office claimed the state policy mirrored federal policy, which, as the AP noted in its report, isn’t true. The feds never mandated that nursing homes be forced to accept COVID-19 patients.

Talk about avoiding responsibility.

[chez]

No, it does not make me feel better.  It is just nice to know you, and other liberals, are finally coming to your senses. 

As usual, it took the liberals a little longer to get there, but I did have hope.  I even have hope that eventually D Blasio will realize releasing sex offenders was not a good idea, albeit probably after he destroys his career further.

And who was leading the people to 70,000+ deaths...the Trump sheeple.

[Paulo Bizarro]

Great piece on how Cuomo owns all the nursing home deaths. 

This nursing home disaster is on you, Gov. Cuomo: Goodwin

Essentially on March 25th, the governor's office put forward a policy that any retirement home must take in a resident that tested positive for C-19.  There were no exceptions and this policy is still in place.  Cuomo is trying to act as if he did not know about this, but he is known as a micro-manager, so it is not a great defense.  On top of that, the fact that this was brought to his attention last week and he has not made any change is also not looking good. 

He is also trying to use a myriad of other excuses, including trying to blame Trump, surprise, strong arming directors to be quiet with threats. 

Cuomo, in response, has constructed an evolving litany of self-defenses, once coldly asserting it was “not our job” to help the homes get protective equipment for their staffs, even as other officials said the equipment was being provided. His office claimed the state policy mirrored federal policy, which, as the AP noted in its report, isn’t true. The feds never mandated that nursing homes be forced to accept COVID-19 patients.

Talk about avoiding responsibility.

Here in Portugal there was a similar discussion, about returning CV+ people to nursing homes. The issue was clarified as basically they were being treated as other patients:

1. If you are tested + but do not require hospitalization, you go back to your residence, provided you can remain isolated from others.
2. In the case of nursing homes, if they do not have the necessary conditions to keep + but non-serious cases isolated, then those people will go to hospitals, campaign hospitals, other homes, etc.

Essentially, the same policy is applied to all patients. Of course the issue in my country was that many nursing homes were not prepared and/or properly managed. Also, staff were not tested timely, and were in insuficient numbers to ensure rotation.

[Craig Lamson]

And who was leading the people to 70,000+ deaths...the Trump sheeple.

The GOVERNORS of their States.  How quickly you forget.

[Craig Lamson]

Americans exercise their 2nd amendment rights and buy 6.6 million firearms in March and April, a record.  Looks like a lot of Americans take self-protection seriously. Note background checks do not always translate one on one to a gun sale.  But the checks are generally only run AFTER you commit to a purchase.  Some checks may also be denied. 

March 3.7 million background checks
April 2.9 million background checks

https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/nics_firearm_checks_-_month_year.pdf/view

[Alan Klein]

Who's Allen? 

But it is finally nice to see you come around to the reality that an indefinite lock down is futile not a real strategy.  Now if only you and other hysterical libs saw this light a month ago maybe we would be better shape. 

Like I said to Alan, it will be ironic to see the Dems eventually criticize him for not opening up early enough, which is sure to come. 

I've been called worse.

Yes you're right about what he'll be criticized for.  First, he was too late in shutting it down.  Now he'll be too late in opening it up.  Bernard's already starting to move in that direction.  Pretty soon we'll all have to be ashamed for keeping people like you at home and not working to support your family.  He'll probably be asking to take up a collection for your benefit.  Well, I for one am not giving you a dime. I'm still pissed I have gotten my check from the Feds.